Troll discussion from somewhere on the interweb
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Okay, let's talk about Trolls. Why, because we get then on every forum we visit; and they do one thing successfully... Tick everyone off.
I know that many of you have seen and read the "don't feed the trolls" notes from Lynne and I, and there is a reason for why we say it. Just about everyone listens. But, I figured we could open up the topic on what exactly a troll is, why they are on special diets, and why they need to be handled a certain way.
Not because anyone is doing anything wrong, but because, we are all being affected by the current events.
Troll's are instigators.
Keeping that in mind, there are two kinds... The positive troll and the negative troll.
How do I figure? By that definition *I* am a troll. I instigate the conversations that happen, and I instigate you all to think and challenge everyone to the brink of your tempers.
Kinda odd to think of your moderator as a troll isn't it?
The advantage.. I get to be the kind of troll no one minds, every now and again, ya'll might get irritated with me.. but it doesn't last long.
Then we have Nasty Trolls.
We are dealing with a Nasty Troll (or NasTroll) for short. These are the kinds of trolls who stir up trouble.. However, they can sometimes create good topics, just like your friendly Troll. But, this temperment doesn't stick around long, they quickly get ugly, or they just start out ugly.
Dealing with Nastrolls, is a lot like dealing with a tantruming child. The more attention you give to the tantrum.. the longer it lasts, but if you ignore, and walk over said screaming meemee, it is a short lived process.
Hence the special diet.
So... Now, that I've opened this can of worms... Let's talk trolls.
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Well first off, I love our GOOD instigating Troll here, not once have I been disipointed in her instigation of some pretty interesting topics I hope she never stops instigating :wink:
And bad Trolls, well I find their posts are kind of like a car crash. You know you shouldn't look ( or reply), but you just can't not do so , you have to see whats going on( you gotta get that dig in). The temptation to reply, even though you know you shouldn't, is immense. They make you wonder how pathetic they must be to have to result to taunting with their keyboards. Most of the time the bad Troll makes me shake my head and laugh, of course I have never been directly targeted by a Troll, but I would imagine that would piss me off, which wold be the Trolls goal wouldn't it?
What I don't understand is why. Why would you come to a place such as this, to intentionaly start trouble? What does a Troll gain out of it? It's the Internet, it's not like we sit around and worry about what the Troll did today. We log off and move on. What kind of a person feels the need to stir up trouble on the Internet? What are they lacking in their life to make them need such odd attention from people they don't even know :roll:
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It's attention.
Think of kids... even negative attention is attention.
Then of course there can be an entire psychological thing too, and not just the mental health of those who wind up exasperated by them.
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I don't know how much I can add, but here are a few interesting things I know...
Trolls/trolling and it's effects, especially regarding legal ramifications, has been debated in courts, all the way up to the US Supreme Court (eBay v MercExchange).
Some groups troll for newbletts by posting a topic that's been done to death to see who responds. A great example here would be a graffiti thread...
Trolls have absolutely no morals regarding honesty; today it might be a 25 year old, heavily tattoo'd male, tomorrow the same troll (with a different name) might be a 16 year old, suicidal girl, next week it might be a 70 year old grandmother. Some trolls can change the way they talk, so you can't tell it's the same person by the writing style. A few really successful trolls can even hold arguments with themselves (under two or more names) to get other users into the battle. We have seen all of these tactics on this board before...
Trolls have many motivations, but the three most common are revenge, to hide an identity, and for the art.
Examples: Revenge could be an ex-board member who was kicked off, and keeps coming back to stir up trouble to "get back" at the mods. Hiding an identity could be a user who wants to "keep an eye" on the people of the board without letting them know who they are (often law enforcement). They will stir up trouble using multiple names to pull the heat off of themselves... Finally, some people just see trolling as art, and do it because they are bored. Often, at the end of a troll they will post "YHBT YHL HAND" or "You Have Been Trolled, You Have Lost, Have A Nice Day". These are the most obnoxious...
Most importantly: Do Not Feed The Trolls! This means, do not play into their game, don't respond, don't get angry, don't PM them. Just ignore them. They will go away if you ignore them, but if you feed them they only get stronger. Usually the mods lock all the troll posts before they get too far, but if everyone would just not respond it would be more effective. Don't even respond to a non-troll post from a known troll; this will just encourage them.
Finally there is cyberstalking. This is only applicable to a troll who keeps coming back over and over again. Under both US and UK law, online stalking is covered under normal stalking laws, and is punishable the same way. Stalking includes repeated following and unwanted contact, both of which apply to a troll. The law in the US varies by state, but in all but the weakest cases leads to at least 5 years prison time. In the UK, the law is stricter, as once it has been reported to the authorities, they become liable for any damage caused due to their inaction. In Canada it can carry a term of up to 10 years. In all of these countries, as well as in many others, it is an offense that can lead to extradition if committed across country borders (for instance, someone in the UK cyberstalking a US server. HINT HINT). It is very easy to prove cyberstalking; every computer connected to the internet leaves a long digital trail of everything that it has done.
Why am I talking about cyberstalking? Because one of our trolls has legally crossed into cyberstalking territory, and Motts could push for the law to be enforced. In addition, a few of the other members here (myself included) could also push for it to be enforced, as this troll has digitally followed us to our personal sites and left harrassing messages as well. Ideally, said troll will read this, decide the risk isn't worth it, and go away. If not... well, I don't know if Motts would push for extradition, but you damned well better believe I will. HINT HINT.
Ok, so that's trolling 101...
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Having been targetted by a troll I can say it is not a nice experience.
Having someone stalk you online, send abusive emails and fool you into believing they are someone else is disturbing...
The particular trolls we get here are often short lived, but we do have the odd troll that insists on coming back again and again. Said troll clerly enjoys the frustration and tension that he causes, and it makes you wonder what the hell is going on in their real life to make them so desperate to ruin other peoples, whether it be by annoying them endlessly online or emailing them privately.
I know we shouldn't rise to the bait but sometimes you just want to vent and tell these freaks how weird they really are, how disturbed and unsatisfied their lives are.
I know we will never be totaly free of trolls, and we do have a few stalking the board at the moment.
I would also push for prosecution of a cyberstalker...purely because I don't think that these people will ever stop.
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And you said you did't have much to add Sketch... our little bundle of knowledge. Actually your post was very enlightening.
It is intereting to see the reasoning behind certain types of Trolls. Something I would never have given any thought to, aside from a disguntled Troll, or law enforcement. But to Troll for newbies, or just for the fun of it... that is just weird to me.
Also it is interesting to know how serious of an offense Trolling can be. It makes sense that when it crosses the line into stalking it should be punishd the same way. It still all seems so strange to me that someone would put so much time and effort into this, you don't know these people personaly, you can't "see" their reactions, it seems like such a waste of time.
Question - say a sexual predator was on the Internet looking for a victim, is that deemed Trolling or is it out and out stalking, or is it considered something else entirely? Reason I ask is I am curious as to what type of a sentence someone would receive for meeting up with someone that way with the intent to do harm. If it was considered Trolling then these scum bags would be getting away with mild sentences wouldn't they?
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I'm glad we have covered all of this.
As a person, I have dealt with cyber stalkers, who escalated to real stalking.. (talk about scary) and trolls.
As a moderator, I deal with them on more than just this site.
The reality is... they are scary, disturbing and well.... because people are unaware of the laws... They get away with it.
Our current stalker/troll included. I'm really hoping that by maybe helping to educate users on the laws, we can begin to work together to help eliminate the problem. While everyone is right, the reality is..We'll never be done dealing with them, but if we deal with them in a proactive manner, rather than a reactive manner, we may actually get somewhere as a whole.
AI
