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Re: MONYMAN3 post# 319679

Monday, 11/08/2004 1:45:14 AM

Monday, November 08, 2004 1:45:14 AM

Post# of 704019
demonization of elderly leeches is already afoot, it seems.

this whole analysis is just 100% wrong wrong wrong. zeev's earlier arguments were correct: if the money that had been contributed had been invested, even in something of minimal return, these discrepencies would not exist, and the couple would appear to come out behind. (at least for the social security calculation.)

in that respect, all this shows is that the gov has mismanaged social security and swindled mr. and mrs. median, and hence the taxpayer.

and of course, the taxpayer being swindled is mr. and mrs. median, pre-retirement.

none of this has *anything* to do with why medicare and social security are gonna go broke when boomers retire. heh. if this argument were true, both programs would always have been cash-flow negative, right?

Mr. and Mrs. Median would get a joint Medicare benefit valued at $283,500, the Urban Institute estimates. That's the present value of the benefit — what it's worth today — not the larger amount the government will actually pay over the years. But the couple would have paid only $43,300 in Medicare taxes (valued in 2004 dollars). Taxpayers lose $240,200 on the deal.

if they paid 43,300, then employers matched that, no? (i am not following the details of the calculation, but assuming that the author isn't trying to obfuscate things by including employer contributions in that 43,000 - otherwise, its really not a fair argument). that amount, accumulated over 45 years, with modest interest, make the "loss" much less than is being presented here.

heck, without looking at possible interest, there's no way these numbers are even remotely adjusted for inflation over 45 years. so of course their contributions from 25 years ago look like a pittance.

But the Medians' good fortune doesn't end there. They also qualify for $22,900 in annual Social Security benefits, which rise annually with inflation. Present value of the Social Security benefit: $326,000. Present value of Social Security taxes paid over a lifetime: $198,000. Net loss to taxpayers: $128,000."

yeah, and how much did they pay into that? (12.4% self employed, while medicare above was only 2.9% self employeed).






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