When you are trying to raise money, as you must know, the technologist goes under the magnifying glass, more than the technolgy. Its like curb appeal in real estate. As has been discussed here many times before, Al and Mike were non-degreed. So, they stayed in the background as much as possible. I was the front person. Because Jack and I had ongoing dealings, I stepped out of the picture (without regrets). Al, Mike and Jack did a deal and Jack took it Ray. Mike can stand with any PhD in the field any day, don't ever sell him short. Yes I know, no degree, but very smart. Chipwa1