InvestorsHub Logo
Followers 48
Posts 3394
Boards Moderated 0
Alias Born 02/15/2009

Re: None

Tuesday, 09/12/2023 9:10:06 AM

Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:10:06 AM

Post# of 480848
Insurrection and Sedition are two separate words and mean differing things. Insurrection in the 1828 version of Webster’s Dictionary which was the meaning of the word prior to the passing of the 14th Amendment in 1868, not the meaning as shown in today’s version of Webster’s and the intertwine both words into one meaning, they were never meant to be the same meaning. Jan. 6tth and the folks that stormed the Capital were less than (700) people not even close to the voting public of 70 plus million who cast their votes for this person. Armed insurrection where no weapons in the group were used or fired see article below. A real insurrection would have millions of supporters descending on the Capital which did not happen less than 700 were there that were violators which in fact makes this a week Sedition case at best. Words have meaning and again at the time of the passing of this law these were the definitions and meanings that were to be used for implementation of these laws, not today’s version of what they think these meant back in 1828. Sorry but Insurrection is not Sedition and Sedition is not Insurrection. Sedition is not stated in the 14th Amendment Section 3 at all. Thanks for playing.
https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Sedition
Sedition SEDI'TION, noun. [Latin seditio. The sense of this word is the contrary of that which is naturally deducible from sedo, or sedeo, denoting a rising or raging, rather than an appeasing. But to set is really to throw down, to drive, and sedition may be a setting or rushing together.] A factious commotion of the people, a tumultuous assembly of men rising in opposition to law or the administration of justice, and in disturbance of the public peace. sedition is a rising or commotion of less extent than an insurrection, and both are less than rebellion; but some kinds of sedition in Great Britain, amount to high treason. In general, sedition is a local or limited insurrection in opposition to civil authority, as mutiny is to military.

https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Insurrection

Insurrection INSURREC'TION, noun [Latin insurgo; in and surgo, to rise.]
1. A rising against civil or political authority; the open and active opposition of a number of persons to the execution of a law in a city or state. It is equivalent to sedition, except that sedition expresses a less extensive rising of citizens. It differs from rebellion, for the latter expresses a revolt, or an attempt to overthrow the government, to establish a different one or to place the country under another jurisdiction. It differs from mutiny, as it respects the civil or political government; whereas a mutiny is an open opposition to law in the army or navy. insurrection is however used with such latitude as to comprehend either sedition or rebellion.
It is found that this city of old time hath made insurrection against kings, and that rebellion and sedition have been made therein. Ezra 4:19.
2. A rising in mass to oppose an enemy. [Little Used.]
Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights
• Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Amdt14.S3.1 Overview of Disqualification Clause
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The right to remove disabilities imposed by this Section was exercised by Congress at different times on behalf of enumerated individuals.1 In 1872, the disabilities were removed, by a blanket act, from all persons except Senators and Representatives of the Thirty-sixth and Thirty-seventh Congresses, officers in the judicial, military and naval service of the United States, heads of departments, and foreign ministers of the United States.2 Twenty-six years later, Congress enacted that the disability imposed by section 3 . . . incurred heretofore, is hereby removed
'Armed insurrection': What weapons did the Capitol rioters carry?
by Byron York, Chief Political Correspondent
October 11, 2021 06:00 PM

Newsletters
Recently, Scott MacFarlane, an NBC4 reporter in Washington who covers the Capitol riot prosecutions, tweeted, "As of tonight at least 65 of the Jan. 6 defendants have been charged with 'entering a restricted area with a dangerous or deadly weapon.' A counterpunch to those who argued this didn't appear like 'an armed insurrection.'"
It was just a tweet, which, by definition, can't contain much information, but it left open the question: What weapons did they have? What were the arms in the "armed insurrection"?
The Justice Department maintains a website listing the defendants and the federal charges against them in the sprawling Jan. 6 investigation. At this moment, about 670 people have been charged, many of them with misdemeanors such as "Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building."
Of the cases involving weapons, there are four main charges: "Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers Using a Dangerous Weapon"; "Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon"; "Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon"; and "Engaging in Physical Violence in a Restricted Building with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon."
Going through the Justice Department site, as well as some media databases, I counted 82 defendants who have been charged with at least one of those offenses. It's possible I missed a few, but I think they represent the vast majority of those who face weapons-related charges in the Capitol riot investigation. In each charge, prosecutors have specified the weapon the defendant is accused of using. Below is a list of all the defendants, and all the weapons:
DEFENDANT WEAPON
ALAM, Zachary Jordan Helmet
ALBERTS, Christopher Michael Handgun (Alberts was arrested after the riot was over, at 7:25 p.m., on a street near the Capitol and was accused of having a firearm.)
BALLARD, Thomas John Police baton
BARNETT, Richard Stun gun, walking stick
BARNHART, Logan James Baton, flagpole, crutch
BLACK, Joshua Matthew Knife
BLAIR, David Alan Flagpole, knife
BROCKHOFF, Nicholas James Fire extinguisher
BYERLY, Alan William Taser
CALDWELL, Daniel Ray Pepper or mace spray
CAPUCCIO, Steven Baton
CHRESTMAN, William Ax handle
COFFEE, Luke Russell Crutch
COFFMAN, Lonnie Leroy Multiple firearms (Coffman is not charged with being on Capitol grounds; allegedly had two guns on his person, plus firearms in his truck parked on 1st Street SE in Washington D.C.)
COPELAND, Landon Kenneth Metal fence
CUA, Bruno Joseph Baton
DEMPSEY, David Nicholas Crutch, metal pole, "lacrimal spray," and "club-like object"
EISENHART, Lisa Marie Taser
FAIRLAMB, Scott Kevin Baton
FOY, Michael Joseph Hockey stick
GIESWEIN, Robert Baseball bat, "aerosol irritant spray"
GOSSJANKOWSKI, Vitali Taser
HARKRIDER, Alex Kirk Tomahawk ax
IBRAHIM, Mark Sami Firearm
JACKSON, Emanuel Metal baseball bat
JAMES, Aaron Shield
JENKINS, Shane Leedon Tomahawk ax, flagpole, desk drawer, and "stick-like objects"
JENSEN, Douglas Austin Knife
JOHNSON, Paul Russell Metal crowd control barrier
JONES, Chad Barrett Flagpole
JUDD, David Lee Firecracker
KHATER, Julian Elie Chemical spray (Accused of attacking Officer Brian Sicknick)
KLEIN, Federico Guillermo Shield
KRAMER, Philip Edward Snowboarding helmet, walking cane, Master Lock, climbing rope
LANG, Edward Jacob Bat, shield
LANGUERAND, Nicholas Traffic barrier, "stick-like objects"
LAZAR, Samuel Chemical irritant
MCABEE, Ronald Colton Baton, flagpole, crutch, and "reinforced gloves"
MCCAUGHEY, Patrick E. III Shield
MCGREW, James Burton Pole
MCHUGH, Sean Michael Bear spray, "metal sign"
MCKELLOP, Jeffrey Flagpole
MEREDITH, Cleveland Grover Jr. Firearms (Meredith arrived in Washington after the riot was over but was charged with having three guns in his possession.)
MELLIS, Jonathan Gennaro Stick
MILLER, Matthew Ryan Fire extinguisher
MINK, Jorden Robert Baseball bat
MUNAFO, Jonathan Joshua Flagpole
MUNCHEL, Eric Taser
NEEFE, Marshall Wooden club, "metal sign frame"
NICHOLS, Ryan Taylor Crowbar, pepper spray
OWENS, Grady Douglas Skateboard
PADILLA, Joseph Lino Flagpole, "large metal sign"
PALMER, Robert Scott Fire extinguisher, "stick-like object"
PERKINS, Michael Steven Flagpole
POLLOCK, Jonathan Daniel Flagpole, riot shield
PONDER, Mark K. Pole
POWELL, Rachel Marie Ice ax, "large wooden pole"
QUAGLIN, Christopher Joseph Shield, pepper spray
RANDOLPH, Stephen Chase Metal crowd control barrier
REFFITT, Guy Wesley Handgun
RODRIGUEZ, Daniel Flagpole, "electroshock weapon"
RODRIGUEZ, Edward Francisco Chemical irritant
SABOL, Jeffrey Baton, flagpole, crutch
SAMSEL, Ryan Stephen Metal crowd control barrier
SANFORD, Robert Fire extinguisher
SCHAFFER, Jon Bear spray
SCHWARTZ, Peter J. Pepper spray
SILLS, Geoffrey William Baton
SMITH, Charles Bradford Knife
STAGER, Peter Francis Baton, flagpole, crutch
STEVENS, Tristan Chandler Shield
SULLIVAN, John Earle Knife
TAAKE, Andrew Quentin Pepper spray, metal whip
TANIOS, George Pierre Chemical spray (Accused of attacking Officer Brian Sicknick)
TAYLOR, Russell Knife
THOMPSON, Devlyn Baton
WATSON, William Pepper spray
WEBSTER, Thomas Flagpole
WESTBURY, Isaac Shield
WHITTON, Jack Wade Baton, flagpole, crutch
WILSON, Duke Edward Pipe
WORRELL, Christopher John Pepper spray

A few observations on the list. First, on the issue of guns. Five suspects — Christopher Michael Alberts, Lonnie Leroy Coffman, Mark Sami Ibrahim, Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., and Guy Wesley Reffitt — are charged with possessing firearms. But none are charged with using them during the riot.
Alberts was arrested at 7:25 p.m., after the riot was over, when police enforcing the District of Columbia curfew suspected he had a handgun under his coat as he was leaving.
Coffman was arrested at about 6:30 p.m. after he told police that he was trying to get to his parked pickup truck. Officers found two handguns on Coffman's person and two more guns, along with possible bomb-making materials, in the truck.
Ibrahim was a Drug Enforcement Administration agent who had given his notice to resign and was on personal leave on Jan. 6; at the riot, he was carrying his DEA-issued badge and pistol.
Meredith was not in Washington at all for the riot. He arrived later that evening after allegedly texting a threatening message about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Meredith told police that "he had two firearms in his truck, and he knew that he was not supposed to have the firearms in Washington, DC. Therefore, he moved the firearms to his trailer," according to court documents. Officers found a handgun, a rifle, and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in the trailer.
Finally, court papers say Reffitt had a handgun on his person on Jan. 6.
So, those are the gun cases. Many observers have pointed out that other rioters surely had guns. Since so few were arrested and searched at the scene, that is impossible to know. But it's certainly possible. What is more certain is that none of the suspects fired any guns at any point during the riot. The only shot that was fired during that time was by Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd, who shot and killed rioter Ashli Babbitt as she tried to force her way into an area near the House chamber.
As for the rest of the weapons, six defendants are charged with having a knife, although none are accused of using the weapon on another person. Five defendants are accused of having a Taser or stun gun. Three are charged with having an ax. Four are charged with having a baseball bat. Seven are charged with having a crutch. Eleven are charged with having a baton of some sort. Thirteen are accused of having some sort of pepper or other irritant spray. Nineteen are charged with having a pole, usually a pole for the flags they carried. Eight are accused of having a shield, several of them police shields they apparently took at the scene.
Some of the weapons were obviously brought with the intention of being in a fight. Others were clearly improvised on the spur of the moment; in one case, the deadly or dangerous weapon used was a desk drawer. In another, it was a traffic barrier. In yet another, it was a helmet. That doesn't mean those objects could not be dangerous; one could beat a person to death with a desk drawer. But it does suggest the rioter did not arrive at the Capitol bent on armed insurrection.
In addition, the overall numbers are relatively small. Eighty-two people charged with weapons-related offenses, out of how many? That is about 12% of the 670 or so currently charged. And 670 is smaller than the total number of rioters on the Capitol grounds on Jan. 6. Does that amount to an "armed insurrection"? Especially when just five people have been charged with possessing firearms, the weapon of choice for modern armed insurrectionists, and one of them didn't arrive until after it was all over, and none of them fired the weapons, even in the intensity of the physical struggle that day?
And that is the problem with the "armed insurrection" talking point. By any current American standard of civil disorder, what happened on Jan. 6 was a riot. There were some instigators, and there were many more followers. A small number were anticipating a fight, probably with antifa. And as the day went on, some people lost their heads and did things they should regret for a very long time. But a look at the Justice Department prosecutions simply does not make the case that it was an "armed insurrection."

Insurrection and Rebellion are the words and the language used in the 14th Amendment and what happened on this date was neither.

Join the InvestorsHub Community

Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.