FRED They aint about to cave until the VERY LAST SECOND!!!!!!!!!!! First and foremost they need to see DEC 3rds outcome, what is presented and just HOW BAD IT LOOKS!!!!!!!!! Now taking that chance is a GUTSY ONE to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!! So before orals on DEC 3rd or after That is their real prob, do they DARE to let the cat out the bag and then try and put it back in or NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT