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Historically speaking- how has the "free" healthcare, gov aided housing, free dental, free college, biz grants etc... benefited the Indians since they were place under "free" gov care?
Don't forget that Indians "stole" land/regions from one another as well as robbed goods, raped, pillaged etc... their neighbors.
It would be an impossible feat to say who rightly owned the land when approaching the scenario via the "who was there first" approach.
One thing that gets little to no attention is that our gov placed feuding tribes on the same reservations.
I asked for you to tell me why Obama is doing well on a list of issues and you tell me to basically pack sand. Specific issues and Obama aren't fun are they?
I was being serious and want to see what you find so wonderful/different about where he is taking our country.
If you disapprove of Obommers continued globalization we finally have something to agree on!
Supporting the troops does not equate to supporting Bush/Obama/Clinton globalization.
I do not approve of globalization at all. I do not approve of us getting involved in other nations gov, policies etc....
Why do you support Obama furthering it?
To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth.
I don't post anything I know to be false. I also appreciate being corrected when innaccurate.
Unlike you- I do consider good info from all sides. It's obvious that Obommer is more of Bush and is hurting middle/lower class.
The troops earn every dime and then some. Pathetic to discredit that and say otherwise while others are getting rich in gov.
Except for the liberals on this board lol- they still promote it!
Why don't you enlighten me on some key issues listed below?
1) We continue to fight a war that has no defined line of victory/defeat?
2) We continue to occupy countries around the world. Why?
3) Obama will increase taxes on the people of America. The wealthy will pass the tax increase on to the people via the goods the people buy. How is that "change"?
4) Big business continues to lobby. How is that different?
5) Big business has the influence on the gov to ensure their profits. How is that different?
6) Big banks consuming little banks. How is that good for middle/lower class?
7) Small business is defined as less than 500 employees. Is that what you call small biz? (I think of small business as the locally owned shop with a few dozen employees.)
8) Our currency is being devalued and threatened with proposed "new currencies". How is that good for Americans?
9) Our industries have been exported and show no sign of returning. How is that good economics for the middle/lower class?
10) Globalization is well under way with America at the helm. Do you realize that global conquests have been the downfall of every major civilization in the past?
Lots more big issues but I can only handle so much enlightenment at a time
Now give me your best big gov/elitist spin.
You don't believe a military soldier fighting in Iraq would disapprove of the gov employees getting pay increases that are fairly significant (on the average) while soldiers get little to no pay increase?
EDIT: Any and all inaccuracies I've posted fail to compare to the lies of the leader you are defending.
I migrated to the chat boards to ensure the info I come across in accurate.
Unlike you and the vast majority on here, I do not fall into the bs of party politics.
American founding principles, empowered people and limited gov. are "crap" in your world?
That would explain the disconnect between you and I.
That's your reasoning as to why other gov workers are getting significant pay increases and the troops aren't?
No- I told you what I believe in and you are telling me I'm full of crap about what I believe in.
Do you get together with the rest of the clan and work up a rally time?
My friend wrote this:
Im currently in Iraq coming home very soon thank god but a year strait this is the type of stuff i have seen and heard from the U.S and honestly it makes me sick but like this airmen its good to know theres still some out there that are proud Americans if you agree with his statement please send this to your friends and family let us take care of our vets not greet them from there tours with crap like this for giving up there freedoms and life for our country to return home to this is very disgusting
The rest was info he forwarded on. I realize you are against the troops but for Obama's war but do some research on what soldiers get paid vs the rest of gov workers before spouting off.
LMAO- like a true big gov elitist you are telling me what I think and believe.
Almost all media sources are reporting the collapse of Obama's approval vs the growing disapproval.
My agenda of American Founding Principles that empower the people vs gov is something you are saying "shame on you" towards?
Edit: Very pathetic that you blindly promote the neolib agenda where the rich get richer and the poor get shafted.
Shame on you for being part of the process.
*Political bloggers who are given any sort of compensation (cash or gifts) for their services are legally required to disclose as much. New law that has recently taken effect.
Obama has ya hook, line and sinker- sad, very sad that you go for the same policies sold to ya by a different salesman than the previous.
An outstanding salesman is one who can tell another to go to hell and make him feel very happy that he is on his way. Such a feat requires intense creativity, deceptive semantics, and the ability to lie creatively and utter warm, loving words to the victim while concealing the intense hatred the perpetrator feels for him. The victim must be convinced he's going to a warm, wonderful place and not understand until too late what is really happening to him.
It is amusing nevertheless that generation after generation continues to fall prey to the same old tricks. But then again, fighting off old lies in new packaging is a full-time job, which requires effort, and few seem to muster the courage to do it.
Contrary to popular belief, communism is not dead! Rather, it is invading the West at an alarming pace - either overtly or covertly. China is a solidly communist country. Cuba remains communist and Venezuela is becoming such. The majority of southern Africa - South Africa included - is either controlled by communists or moving rapidly in that direction.
The new communists may not proclaim themselves to be such. They use other terms such as socialism, etc., but communist thought is alive and well in the halls of academia. The communist collective process has invaded our governments, schools, state, provincial and county governments, businesses and even Bible-based churches. Few pastors and Christians in churches utilizing the popular church growth programs realize they are based on the collective process designed by atheist Vladimir Lenin to brainwash the masses and impose Marxist control on society.
Something should be wrong with this picture, given communism's record of death and disaster and its persecution of Christians and Jews, but because of the nature of how the transition has occurred - repacking old ideas in new wrapping - few have noticed. In this article, we'll look at how socialism, communism's wicked stepsister, has replaced capitalism as the dominant economic and political paradigm in the West.
The Circle of Socialism
Most Westerners believe that fascism is extreme-right and socialism is far-left. Perhaps a more realistic model would be a circle at the top of which stands a free market economy, private enterprise, and a limited constitutional government with a bill of rights for the individual as a cornerstone of freedom. At the bottom of the circle rests a dictatorship, individual or oligarchic, sham rights revocable at any time by the state, and where the rule of law means everything is state controlled. The only practical difference between fascism and socialism is that in a communist society government owns all property and directs all enterprise, whereas in a fascist society private property ownership continues, but entrepreneurs must submit to government's ideologies and goals - chief of which is the task of funding government programs with the proceeds of private enterprise. Today's socialism is striving to straddle both models.
Socialism and fascism only appear different when they're sliding down the outside of their respective circles. Once they arrive at the bottom, both are functionally and historically alike. Both societies believe in total government control of the economy, education, and morals, suppression of free speech and other rights, imposition of a politically correct ideology, subordination of citizens' rights to the goals of the state or collective, and the use of law to coerce and prosecute those who dissent.
Bottom line: At the top of the circle is a free state, where the laws protect the people from government. At the bottom of the circle is a socialist or fascist state, where the laws protect government from the people.
100% Successful Failure
Much of public debate today is not about whether we're going to have a free society vs. state control, but simply about which side of the circle we're going to slide down during the move away from freedom towards a global, state-controlled society. Despite socialism's 100% track record of failure, the entire Western world seems determined to do it again, sliding down the left side of the circle, screaming epithets at fascism as it disappears around the curve, unaware that its current course leads to a head-on encounter with fascism going the other way at the bottom. Thereafter, both movements unite, causing their citizens to live miserably ever after. Few apprehend the inherent evil and diminishing rights in the emerging political structures or understand why they are inimical to the free society they are happily leaving behind. Since we're heading towards a global pantheistic socialism, it might be advisable to examine its three fundamentals: elitism, expropriation, and exemption.
1) Elitism
Genuine socialists are, above all, elitist. Socialists conceive themselves to be bright shining Quijotes,1 tilting with windmills, saving humanity from itself, the planet from humanity, the economy from capitalism, and from everything else except big government, which socialists love. On the other hand, they view the putrid pile of pusillanimous pus we call society as the unwashed ignorant who must be saved from themselves. In this capacity, the opinions of the unwashed are to be ignored.
There is a difference between hard-core socialist academics or politicians (ideologues) and the socialazzi (Lenin's "useful idiots"), the average Joe and Jane, who think government social programs are great, but never investigate to see if socialism delivers its promises, which it never does. To his credit, Joe Socialazzi is bothered that the rich seem to be getting richer and he seems to be getting poorer but he just can't figure it out. After all, Joe Socialazzi genuinely cares about people, but he doesn't understand that there's no such thing as a free lunch. The hard-core ideologues, however, understand it's all about power, money, and control.
La Visión Grande
Socialist Quijotes usually have their gran visión del mundo, 2 and ride in on the back of white Rocinantes 3 - a glittering response to appalling social conditions or the environmental crisis du jour. However, socialist solutions always ignore basic rules of both human nature and economics. As such they not only absolutely fail but also create far worse problems than existed before they started, which is why socialism always collapses of its own weight, but only after much damage has been wrought on the little guy.
Socialists do not like opinions in variance with the grand vision. Thus, high priority on the socialist docket is to suppress free speech by whatever method feasible. Suppression of speech in the elitism phase is important. By the time everyone arrives at the exemption phase, everyone knows socialism is a lie, but they can no longer say so. Indeed, a hallmark of Soviet society was that everyone had to give lip service to a series of official lies, which everyone knew were false but couldn't say so.
2) Expropriation
Once the socialist is in a position to implement the grand vision, he immediately faces a critical problem: funding. Grand designs require grand amounts of money. However, the ignorant unwashed masses don't like to work for free or have their hard-earned money taken from them. So the socialist creates warfare between classes of people. He demonizes the haves and sanctifies the haves-not. He demonizes those who don't see the wisdom in the grand vision. Then he tells the haves-not it is moral, just, and good to seize what the haves have by force and give it to the haves-not. He also says it is wrong for the haves to even try to earn what they have. Soak the rich and save the planet. ¡Viva el free lunch!
Here lies the core contradiction of socialism: socialists demonize capitalism but always require the wealth capitalism generates in order to implement and perpetuate their political schemes. The double speak must be maintained if socialists are to remain in power! The socialazzi never learn that there is no such thing as a free lunch until late in the game, when it's too late.
As socialist programs are created in rapid succession, a staggering bureaucracy comes into existence to support the administration of it, which siphons off the lion's share of what is supposed to be transferred from the haves to the haves-not. Once entrenched, this new bureaucracy has a vested interest in 1) perpetuating the problems it is supposed to be fixing, in order to 2) sustain its cash flow, in order to 3) keep itself in existence, regardless of who gets soaked. Remember, socialism is about power and control.
Socialism continues to exist as long as two factors remain in play:
1) The underlying capitalism is resilient enough to bear the load. This involves being able to pay increasing levels of confiscatory taxation and deal with a crushing regulatory burden or a horribly corrupt political system. Note that these factors always eliminate the little guy from the game! Little guys do not have the financial resources to fight an increasingly abusive system, resulting in one of socialism's most important dicta: Under socialism the middle class always disappears!
2) The masses must continue believing that there is a free lunch and that only rich people are being soaked.
3) Exemption
While the game is ongoing, socialists always exempt themselves from the restrictive laws and confiscations they impose on everyone else. In essence they become exactly what they preach against, but more importantly, once the jig is up, a more pernicious form of exemption sets in as socialists make themselves immune from responsibility for the havoc they have caused: morally, legally and above all, politically. Sooner or later even the most mentally challenged becomes dimly aware that socialists look a lot like the rich haves they perpetually promise to soak. The socialazzi discover their money has been devalued, their assets seized, their freedoms quashed, their economy wrecked, they're broke and the system is out of control.
At this point, revolutions - bloody or not - usually occur and exemption kicks in. When the economic horse collapses from abuse and overwork, socialists adamantly refuse to dismount, even when confronted with a very angry populace (vis a vis Argentina). First they try to convince the public that evil rich capitalists are responsible for the horse's ill health and that the horse will recover if the people just make more sacrifices of their money and property. Occasionally the socialazzi are stupid enough to believe this and the horse can be kept alive for a little while longer, but it never regains its former health. Invariably the games socialists play to keep Rocinante alive radically exacerbate an already desperate situation to its ultimate conclusion. In the end, the poor horse simply dies, leading socialists to the major challenge of their dubious careers. It is now impossible to convince the public that the bad smell isn't rotting horse carcass and that they're not responsible. Disaster is at hand when lo and behold, socialism meets its old enemy fascism going the other way in an encounter called by Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, the Third Way. Others refer to it as capitalistic communism.
Since the socialists don't want to give up money and power, they cut a deal with the big-time capitalists. The socialists make laws that are favorable only to the big guys, excluding the little guys from the game. At the same time the big capitalists agree to fund the socialists' dreams and agendas as long as they get exclusive preferential treatment.
It's a marriage made in political hell. When things go wrong, the socialists can blame the capitalists all the while they pound the bejeebers out of capitalist enterprise to pay for their socialist dreams. As such they are never held accountable for the horrible state of affairs that inevitably results from socialism in the first place! But now we must ask: When this socialist round collapses - which it will as all its ancestors did - given that this is the first time socialism will be implemented on a global scale, there will be no remaining source of external free-market capitalism to stop the endgame chaos, so what will the global dictatorship look like?
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/424/
Neo-liberalism is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer....Around the world, neo-liberalism has been imposed by powerful financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank and the Inter- American Development Bank....the capitalist crisis over the last 25 years, with its shrinking profit rates, inspired the corporate elite to revive economic liberalism. That's what makes it 'neo' or new.
Sounds like the road Obama and the elite are taking us down.
More centralized banking, globalization, more power held by the elite/powerful.
That is what Obama is and is what you are defending.
I realize your attention span is short buy try to make it throught the whole article:
I am a baby boomer, which is to say my life has coincided with turbulent and awesome times. From the Cold War to Vietnam, from Watergate to Monicagate, through the horrors of 9/11 and the stunning lifestyle advances, my generation's era has been historic and exciting.
Yet for all the drama and change, the years only occasionally instilled in me the sensation I feel almost constantly now. I am afraid for my country.
I am afraid -- actually, certain -- we are losing the heart and soul that made America unique in human history. Yes, we have enemies, but the greatest danger comes from within.
Watching the freak show in Copenhagen last week, I was alternately furious and filled with dread. The world has gone absolutely bonkers and lunatics are in charge.
Mugabe and Chavez are treated with respect and the United Nations is serious about wanting to regulate our industry and transfer our wealth to kleptocrats and genocidal maniacs.
Even more frightening, our own leaders joined the circus. Marching to the beat of international drummers, they uncoupled themselves from the will of the people they were elected to serve.
President Obama, for whom I voted because I believed he was the best choice available, is a profound disappointment. I now regard his campaign as a sly bait-and-switch operation, promising one thing and delivering another. Shame on me.
Equally surprising, he has become an insufferable bore. The grace notes and charm have vanished, with peevishness and petty spite his default emotions. His rhetorical gifts now serve his loathsome habit of fear-mongering.
"Time is running out," he says, over and again. He said it on health care, on the stimulus, in Copenhagen, on Iran.
Instead of provoking thought and inspiring ideas, the man hailed for his Ivy League nuance insists we stop thinking and do what he says. Now.
His assertion we will go bankrupt unless Congress immediately adopts the health monstrosity marks a new low. At least it did until he barged into a meeting in Copenhagen to insult the Chinese with the same do-it-now arrogance on carbon emissions.
Don't get me wrong -- it's OK to insult the Chinese, but save it for an urgent life-and-death issue. Iran qualifies, with its plans for a nuclear arsenal, yet Obama has not pushed China on that issue with the fervor of his attacks on their dirty smokestacks.
Washington has its own freak show and it also features Big Government theocrats. One of the mainstream media myths is that the Democrat-on-Democrat attacks of late pit moderates against liberals.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/dreading_our_future_EmFMYk61Kja4iC3EMYePVP#ixzz0aM68hdRK
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/dreading_our_future_EmFMYk61Kja4iC3EMYePVP#ixzz0aM5tOrOt
Nearly 60 percent Say President Obama’s Decisions ‘Bad for America’
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/58787
Ahh- more promised transparency: Obama Plan Could Limit Records Hidden From Public
President Barack Obama plans to deal with a Dec. 31 deadline that automatically would declassify secrets in more than 400 million pages of Cold War-era documents by ordering government-wide changes that could sharply curb the number of new and old government records hidden from the public.
cont..
http://newsmax.com/US/US-Classified-Documents-secret/2009/12/20/id/343972
Why are you promoting a power grab by the gov that will strap the middle and lower class with a huge increased tax burden?
By my reasoning Bush is a neo con and Obama is a neo lib. The pathetic part is the anti bush crowd supporting a neo lib movement as something different- that'd be you.
Posted by: Trinityz1 Date: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:46:16 PM
In reply to: extelecom who wrote msg# 176900 Post # of 176919
yeah well....when the poor's stomachs are gnawing on their backbones......
they won't give a rip about healthcare
Change Nobody Believes In
And tidings of comfort and joy from Harry Reid too. The Senate Majority Leader has decided that the last few days before Christmas are the opportune moment for a narrow majority of Democrats to stuff ObamaCare through the Senate to meet an arbitrary White House deadline. Barring some extraordinary reversal, it now seems as if they have the 60 votes they need to jump off this cliff, with one-seventh of the economy in tow.
Mr. Obama promised a new era of transparent good government, yet on Saturday morning Mr. Reid threw out the 2,100-page bill that the world's greatest deliberative body spent just 17 days debating and replaced it with a new "manager's amendment" that was stapled together in covert partisan negotiations. Democrats are barely even bothering to pretend to care what's in it, not that any Senator had the chance to digest it in the 38 hours before the first cloture vote at 1 a.m. this morning. After procedural motions that allow for no amendments, the final vote could come at 9 p.m. on December 24.
Even in World War I there was a Christmas truce.
The rushed, secretive way that a bill this destructive and unpopular is being forced on the country shows that "reform" has devolved into the raw exercise of political power for the single purpose of permanently expanding the American entitlement state. An increasing roll of leaders in health care and business are looking on aghast at a bill that is so large and convoluted that no one can truly understand it, as Finance Chairman Max Baucus admitted on the floor last week. The only goal is to ram it into law while the political window is still open, and clean up the mess later.
***
• Health costs. From the outset, the White House's core claim was that reform would reduce health costs for individuals and businesses, and they're sticking to that story. "Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't read the bills," Mr. Obama said over the weekend. This is so utterly disingenuous that we doubt the President really believes it.
The best and most rigorous cost analysis was recently released by the insurer WellPoint, which mined its actuarial data in various regional markets to model the Senate bill. WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%. A small business based in Richmond with eight employees in average health will see a 23% increase. Insurance costs for a 40-year-old family with two kids living in Indianapolis will pay 106% more. And on and on.
These increases are solely the result of ObamaCare—above and far beyond the status quo—because its strict restrictions on underwriting and risk-pooling would distort insurance markets. All but a handful of states have rejected regulations like "community rating" because they encourage younger and healthier buyers to wait until they need expensive care, increasing costs for everyone. Benefits and pricing will now be determined by politics.
As for the White House's line about cutting costs by eliminating supposed "waste," even Victor Fuchs, an eminent economist generally supportive of ObamaCare, warned last week that these political theories are overly simplistic. "The oft-heard promise 'we will find out what works and what does not' scarcely does justice to the complexity of medical practice," the Stanford professor wrote.
• Steep declines in choice and quality. This is all of a piece with the hubris of an Administration that thinks it can substitute government planning for market forces in determining where the $33 trillion the U.S. will spend on medicine over the next decade should go.
This centralized system means above all fewer choices; what works for the political class must work for everyone. With formerly private insurers converted into public utilities, for instance, they'll inevitably be banned from selling products like health savings accounts that encourage more cost-conscious decisions.
Unnoticed by the press corps, the Congressional Budget Office argued recently that the Senate bill would so "substantially reduce flexibility in terms of the types, prices, and number of private sellers of health insurance" that companies like WellPoint might need to "be considered part of the federal budget."
With so large a chunk of the economy and medical practice itself in Washington's hands, quality will decline. Ultimately, "our capacity to innovate and develop new therapies would suffer most of all," as Harvard Medical School Dean Jeffrey Flier recently wrote in our pages. Take the $2 billion annual tax—rising to $3 billion in 2018—that will be leveled against medical device makers, among the most innovative U.S. industries. Democrats believe that more advanced health technologies like MRI machines and drug-coated stents are driving costs too high, though patients and their physicians might disagree.
"The Senate isn't hearing those of us who are closest to the patient and work in the system every day," Brent Eastman, the chairman of the American College of Surgeons, said in a statement for his organization and 18 other speciality societies opposing ObamaCare. For no other reason than ideological animus, doctor-owned hospitals will face harsh new limits on their growth and who they're allowed to treat. Physician Hospitals of America says that ObamaCare will "destroy over 200 of America's best and safest hospitals."
• Blowing up the federal fisc. Even though Medicare's unfunded liabilities are already about 2.6 times larger than the entire U.S. economy in 2008, Democrats are crowing that ObamaCare will cost "only" $871 billion over the next decade while fantastically reducing the deficit by $132 billion, according to CBO.
Yet some 98% of the total cost comes after 2014—remind us why there must absolutely be a vote this week—and most of the taxes start in 2010. That includes the payroll tax increase for individuals earning more than $200,000 that rose to 0.9 from 0.5 percentage points in Mr. Reid's final machinations. Job creation, here we come.
Other deceptions include a new entitlement for long-term care that starts collecting premiums tomorrow but doesn't start paying benefits until late in the decade. But the worst is not accounting for a formula that automatically slashes Medicare payments to doctors by 21.5% next year and deeper after that. Everyone knows the payment cuts won't happen but they remain in the bill to make the cost look lower. The American Medical Association's priority was eliminating this "sustainable growth rate" but all they got in return for their year of ObamaCare cheerleading was a two-month patch snuck into the defense bill that passed over the weekend.
The truth is that no one really knows how much ObamaCare will cost because its assumptions on paper are so unrealistic. To hide the cost increases created by other parts of the bill and transfer them onto the federal balance sheet, the Senate sets up government-run "exchanges" that will subsidize insurance for those earning up to 400% of the poverty level, or $96,000 for a family of four in 2016. Supposedly they would only be offered to those whose employers don't provide insurance or work for small businesses.
As Eugene Steuerle of the left-leaning Urban Institute points out, this system would treat two workers with the same total compensation—whatever the mix of cash wages and benefits—very differently. Under the Senate bill, someone who earned $42,000 would get $5,749 from the current tax exclusion for employer-sponsored coverage but $12,750 in the exchange. A worker making $60,000 would get $8,310 in the exchanges but only $3,758 in the current system.
For this reason Mr. Steuerle concludes that the Senate bill is not just a new health system but also "a new welfare and tax system" that will warp the labor market. Given the incentives of these two-tier subsidies, employers with large numbers of lower-wage workers like Wal-Mart may well convert them into "contractors" or do more outsourcing. As more and more people flood into "free" health care, taxpayer costs will explode.
• Political intimidation. The experts who have pointed out such complications have been ignored or dismissed as "ideologues" by the White House. Those parts of the health-care industry that couldn't be bribed outright, like Big Pharma, were coerced into acceding to this agenda. The White House was able to, er, persuade the likes of the AMA and the hospital lobbies because the federal government will control 55% of total U.S. health spending under ObamaCare, according to the Administration's own Medicare actuaries.
cont...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598130440164954.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
You elite, gov promoters show up in a clan to focus on a some details that are spun, debunked etc... as a means to discredit the entire content/intent.
Pathetic and it's quickly becoming unpopular in America.
You are promoting an agenda that the majority of America is opposing in an effort to rationalize the blatant disregard politicians have for the people. It's a pathetic, elitist type to do such thing.
FACT is that you blatantly disregarded that the email came to me came from an actual soldier who knows what his pay is every month.
Good for you being an ass and once again missing the point to lock on one aspect of the info as a means to refute the entire thing.
Pathetic approach to pushing the elite/powerful gov agenda.
snopes is a biased source of "debunking". I realize you and many others feel warm and fuzzy with a "real source of info" that you really do not give too much objective reasoning when considering the "debunking".
Even by the snopes numbers- the gov spent far more than it saved.
One can argue about jobs etc... but those jobs and impact will be short term. They may even have created a spike but done so in a manner that will not be sustained.
Only a clown would defend blatant, out of control gov spending that will burden the middle/lower class.
Good for you for standing up for the elite and powerful that control our gov. (really pathetic but keep on....)
From a personal friend serving in Iraq.
Im currently in Iraq coming home very soon thank god but a year strait this is the type of stuff i have seen and heard from the U.S and honestly it makes me sick but like this airmen its good to know theres still some out there that are proud Americans if you agree with his statement please send this to your friends and family let us take care of our vets not greet them from there tours with crap like this for giving up there freedoms and life for our country to return home to this is very disgusting
This Cindy Williams is NOT the "Laverne & Shirley" Cindy Williams. She is: Assistant Director for national Security in the Congressional Budget Office.
Military Pay
This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Times about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America
Ms. Cindy Williams wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members' way this year citing that she stated 13% wage increase was more than they deserve.
A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this.
"Ms Williams: I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes per month. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40, after.
I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs For Network Technicians in the Washington , D.C. Area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.
Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN ; I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."
As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone ; obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.
Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites.. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready- to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor.
Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your opened piece.
But, tomorrow from KABUL , I will defend to the death your right to say it.
You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.
And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? You can kiss my royal red @**!!!
A1C Michael Bragg Hill AFB AFNCC
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT OF THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN. THANK YOU.
Just for the record they mention in here a 6 month tour as a "full tour" well this is true in the other branches but the armys idea of a full tour is 12 month minimum and luckly i wasnt one but many many army men and women have done more then one 15 month tour over here keep that in mind when you read this other then that part i agree with everything said and would love to have said it myself. if anyone im sending this to dont care to read this and thinks that we are throwing a fit or blowin smoke im sorry you feel that way but dont forget these are the men and women that give you the right to think and act on that and have so many other freedoms to enjoy you think other wise go join the military for a simple 2 year contract and then youll see the battle we deal with and it aint just over seas and the freedoms we give up and the pleasures in life we loose time to enjoy and the joy of wonderful family's we have that we rarely get to see. you've got me and women who work there life away at the office and cant take the time to go watch a high school game there son our daughter is in or simply come home and play a game or talk with there children and then you have service men and women who miss out on years of there child's life for there country just think of that when you read this and imagine instead of the extra hours you put in for the x-mas gifts for your kids to use instead spend that over time tossin a ball or playing a video game with them and show them you care and enjoy it for this Christmas and many before and many to come thousands of military men and women cant do more then say hi and happy holidays to there family from thousands of miles away for there country
From a personal friend serving in Iraq.
Im currently in Iraq coming home very soon thank god but a year strait this is the type of stuff i have seen and heard from the U.S and honestly it makes me sick but like this airmen its good to know theres still some out there that are proud Americans if you agree with his statement please send this to your friends and family let us take care of our vets not greet them from there tours with crap like this for giving up there freedoms and life for our country to return home to this is very disgusting
This Cindy Williams is NOT the "Laverne & Shirley" Cindy Williams. She is: Assistant Director for national Security in the Congressional Budget Office.
Military Pay
This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Times about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America
Ms. Cindy Williams wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members' way this year citing that she stated 13% wage increase was more than they deserve.
A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this.
"Ms Williams: I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes per month. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40, after.
I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs For Network Technicians in the Washington , D.C. Area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.
Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN ; I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."
As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone ; obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.
Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites.. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready- to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor.
Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your opened piece.
But, tomorrow from KABUL , I will defend to the death your right to say it.
You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.
And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? You can kiss my royal red @**!!!
A1C Michael Bragg Hill AFB AFNCC
IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT OF THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN. THANK YOU.
Just for the record they mention in here a 6 month tour as a "full tour" well this is true in the other branches but the armys idea of a full tour is 12 month minimum and luckly i wasnt one but many many army men and women have done more then one 15 month tour over here keep that in mind when you read this other then that part i agree with everything said and would love to have said it myself. if anyone im sending this to dont care to read this and thinks that we are throwing a fit or blowin smoke im sorry you feel that way but dont forget these are the men and women that give you the right to think and act on that and have so many other freedoms to enjoy you think other wise go join the military for a simple 2 year contract and then youll see the battle we deal with and it aint just over seas and the freedoms we give up and the pleasures in life we loose time to enjoy and the joy of wonderful family's we have that we rarely get to see. you've got me and women who work there life away at the office and cant take the time to go watch a high school game there son our daughter is in or simply come home and play a game or talk with there children and then you have service men and women who miss out on years of there child's life for there country just think of that when you read this and imagine instead of the extra hours you put in for the x-mas gifts for your kids to use instead spend that over time tossin a ball or playing a video game with them and show them you care and enjoy it for this Christmas and many before and many to come thousands of military men and women cant do more then say hi and happy holidays to there family from thousands of miles away for there country
your common sense and calculator must be from the same source as steph's and comes up short. good for you thinking for yourself.
blah blah blah- you protest a neo con and promote a neo lib. The decider as you call him, had a democrat congress helping him all the way.
Very pathetic that the things you protested about you now are ok with you simply because obama is in office. poor poor character.
Ahhh more snopes bs. Does your calculator and common sense come up short?
For the long haul- I'm thinking NG will be the energy of the future.
We have lots of it that is available at fairly reasonable rates. The industry (via gov regulation) is getting cleaned up. Good changes IMO.
The reserves are currently high and manufacturing is down. Cold winters can be a factor but manufacturing is a huge factors.
Some plants will use 1 bcf a day when they are operational.
The other thing is that our coal reserves can be made into natural gas, (CO2 sequestered and injected in the ground).
When energy was peaked at the highest prices during the last couple years- coal gasification was right on the line of being justifiable.
Point being is that the coal can also support an NG infrastucture via gasification (if needed).
NG has the power to run a bus, garbage truck, big equipment etc...., is clean and plentiful. Alternative energies can not do so practically.
Edit: Pathetic the gov is hiding an agenda and tugging at the "heart strings" of the people to get them on board with supporting it.
Sad that you and others can't look at the common sense, simple mathmatics to see that the gov's health plan is nothing more than a corrupt power grab.
*Blowing smoke for self validation may be much more productive on a board like Tornado Alley.
GLTU and your bs support of standing behind Obama, Reid, Pelosi etc... as they attempt to pass a bill no one understands other than the gov is immensley empowered.
*Don't you think it's odd that Obama says he wants a health bill but is vague on the specifics he wants in it?
Here's some common sense math you ignored under another Obama scheme:
Think of it this way -
A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons a year.
So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.
They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.
That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars
So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.
We spent $8.57 for every dollar saved.
I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with health care though...