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Ron Paul announces White House bid
Texas Republican says nation has strayed from Constitution
March 12, 2007
WorldNetDaily.com
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, a Texas Republican known for his libertarian views, today announced he will vie for the GOP presidential nomination next year.
"We have lost our way and strayed from the free society our Founders secured for us in the Constitution, but there's no reason the principles that made us the greatest nation ever can't be restored," he said.
"We merely need to respect and follow the rule of law – the U.S. Constitution – and elect leaders determined to stand firm in its defense," he said.
Paul, 71, who ran for the office in 1988 under the Libertarian Party ticket, made his announcement on C-SPAN's Washington Journal program and immediately afterward filed paperwork with the Federal Election Commission.
He said he will pursue lower taxes, to protect the United States from the threat to its independence that various international agreements provide, to secure its national borders, to protect citizens' privacy from government intrusion and to reverse the trend of government taking private property from citizens.
"My concerns for the future of our country are deeply held. The Republican Party has floundered in its effort to shrink the size of government and restore our constitutional republic," he said. "Instead, in recent years our deficits have exploded, entitlements are out of control and our personal liberties are threatened. We have embarked on a dangerous and expensive foreign policy, acting as the world's policeman and nation builder."
Paul, said the U.S. very simply no longer can "afford the extravagance of this ever-growing and intrusive government, both at home and abroad."
"Last year alone our long-term obligations increased by $4.6 trillion dollars," he said.
The problems are not particularly complex, however, Paul insisted.
"Liberty once again must become more important to us than the desire for security and material comfort. Personal safety and economic prosperity can only come as the consequence of liberty. They cannot be provided by an authoritarian government. To expect the government to take care of us from cradle to grave undermines the principles of liberty," he said.
He said the nation's current direction is completely wrong.
"Returning to the dark ages of dictatorship is no substitute for resuming the most modern and grandest experiment known to man – promoting human liberty by strictly limiting the arbitrary power of government," he said.
Central planning is "intellectually bankrupt" and has undermined the moral principles of the United States," he said. "Our planners and rulers are not geniuses, but rather demagogues and would-be dictators – always performing their tasks with a cover of humanitarian rhetoric."
He said the collapse of the Soviet system surprised many, but not devotees of freedom.
They, he said, "have understood for decades that socialism was doomed to fail. Communism, like all socialism, failed intellectually and failed practically. And so too will the welfare/warfare state fail, and then our cause will be heard. The love of liberty will not die."
He said a free society is based on the key principle that the government, the president, the Congress, the courts and the bureaucrats are incapable of knowing what is best for each and every one of us.
"They don't know how to run the economy, regulate our lives or manage a world empire," he said.
Government as "a referee" is fine, but not more.
"The time has come for a modern approach to achieving those values that all civilized societies seek."
Paul long has been an advocate of strict constitutional adherence and belief in a small government, including low taxes, individual liberties and less Washington influence.
The National Taxpayers Union consistently ranks Paul as a leader on the issues of taxation, and he advocates more controls on immigration.
Representing the 14th district in southeastern Texas, he believes amnesty is not the solution to the flood of illegal immigrants moving into the nation today. He opposes abortion and supports the use of vouchers that parents can use for private and parochial schools.
He's supported a resolution to abolish the Department of Education so states, cities and communities can resume control of educating their children.
He's been especially vocal in his denunciations of plans such as the "Trans-Texas Corridor," a superhighway project that opponents argue would be used to bring Chinese goods through Mexico directly into and through the U.S.
Why? The ultimate goal, he said, is not simply a superhighway, "but an integrated North American Union – complete with a currency, a cross-national bureaucracy and virtually borderless travel within the union. Like the European Union, a North American Union would represent another step toward the abolition of national sovereignty altogether."
Plans for such a "North American Union" were cited as the No. 1 story on WND's list of 10 most underreported stories for 2006.
Ron Paul - And we finally get a great one!!!!
Shermann
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" - Gandhi
It is old testament stuff.
That is why Judaism has "thy shall not commit murder", and the Christians have "thy shall not kill". Or so I am told.
I always say WWJD as one good guide.
Shermann
That is a hard question to answer.
If there were (19) Arab hijackers, they were conspirators against our government.
However, I dont see actual proof there were (19) Arab Hijackers.
The govt came out with the (19) pictures pretty fast. Then 8 to 12 of them turned up alive.
The govt then said they used aliases. After that the FOIA requests got the passenger lists with no Arab Names on them.
Now the FBI says they are not sure who the hijackers are, and if you call them and ask why 9-11 is not on Osama's wanted poster, they will tell you there is not enough evidence.
I remember seeing 60 minutes show two of the Hijackers being wanded in the airport. However, there was no date/time stamp on the video. All airport cameras have date/time stamps.
Really, all I can say is I do not know who was responsible for the 4 planes on 9-11. It is possible that there were no hijackers and they were remote controlled.
Wish I knew.
Shermann
I have never undersood why we think we are infallible and accurate enough to send a person to his death.
It is sure not a deterrent.
Shermann
Widening the scope of the death penalty beyond murder
http://www.religioustolerance.org/executk.htm
Quotations:
"When a child is raped or sodomized, then their life is basically destroyed....The punishment fits the crime." State Representative Warren Massey, commenting on the death penalty for child rapists.
"The contention that the harm caused by a rapist is less serious than that caused by a murderer is apparently not subscribed to by all rape victims. In some cases women have preferred death to being raped or have preferred not to continue living after being raped." Ruling of the Louisiana Supreme Court in Wilson which upheld the Louisiana law allowing for the execution of child rapists.
"You might say the rape of a child is a more heinous crime than the murder of a junkie...A murder victim suffers for a moment, but that little girl will probably suffer the indignities caused by [a rapist] for the rest of her life." Vince Paciera, Louisiana prosecutor.
Grounds for applying the death penalty:
There are many capital crimes which remain on the books in various states. However, rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court has restricted capital punishment to relatively few crimes. As of the year 2004 (except where noted) states provide the death penalty for:
Treason: Nine states—Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, and Washington—and the federal government.
Aggravated kidnapping: Five states—Colorado, Idaho, Illinois, Missouri, and Montana.
Child rape: Five states: Florida, Louisiana, Montana, Oklahoma and South Carolina as of 2006-JUN.
Drug trafficking: Two states, Florida and Missouri, and the federal government.
Aircraft hijacking: Two states, Georgia and Mississippi.
Placing a bomb near a bus terminal: One state: Missouri.
Espionage: One state: New Mexico.
Aggravated assault by incarcerated, persistent felons or murderers: One state: Montana. 1
However, in those states that perform executions, the death penalty is mostly limited to cases involving aggravated murder. States have different criteria to define this class of crime. Oregon, for example, includes ten categories. [We have simplified the language of Oregon's criminal code. For precise language, please consult the Criminal Code of Oregon]. 2
A contract killing: either the murderer or the person paying for the murder.
A second conviction for murder or manslaughter in the first degree.
Multiple murders
A killing which included intentional maiming or torture of the victim.
The victim was 13 years of age or less.
Murder of a police officer, correctional, parole or probation officer, judicial officer, juror, witness, employee or officer of a court of justice, or member of the State Board of Parole and Post-Prison Supervision.
Murder in a prison
Murder using explosives.
The murder was committed in an attempt to conceal the commission of a crime or to conceal the identity of the perpetrator.
The murder was committed during an escape from jail.
Including child molestation as a capital crime:
By the late 1970s, three states -- Florida, Mississippi, and Tennessee -- had laws on the books permitting the death penalty for the crime of child rape. All three laws were later declared unconstitutional by their state courts.
A growing number of states have recently created laws allowing the execution of convicted child molesters. Louisiana was the first in 1995-JUN-17. 1 It allowed the death penalty for aggravated rape of a victim under the age of twelve years. This triggered debates in other state legislatures.
On 2006-JUN-08, Gov. Mark Sanford of South Carolina signed a bill to allow the death penalty for repeat sexual offenders who are convicted of raping children under the age of 11. The new law is named for 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford. During 2005, she was kidnapped, raped and suffocated by a registered sex offender. Sanford said:
"Jessie's Law is about sending a very clear message that there are some lines you do not cross, and that if those lines are crossed the penalties will be severe." 5
Jay Paul Gumm (D-Durant) wrote bill SB 1747 early in 2006 to stiffen penalties for repeat child molesters. He introduced it to the Oklahoma Senate. It passed without difficulty. But a House committee chairperson refused to hear the bill. It died in the House of Representatives. 3 Senator Jonathan Nichols (R-Norman) and Senator Gumm then introduced a different bill, SB 1800. It creates a state Child Abuse Response Team (CART). Additional text was appended to the original bill to stiffen penalties for perpetrators of child abuse. The Oklahoma Senate passed the bill by a vote of 40 to 7. The house passed it 88 to 8.
On 2006-JUN-09, one day after the South Carolina bill became law, Governor Brad Henry of Oklahoma signed SB 1800. 8 It permits a sentence of life in prison without the opportunity of parole or the death penalty for a repeat child molester convicted of harming a child under the age of 14: 4,5 The text reads:
"Section 7115 I: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any parent or other person convicted of forcible anal or oral sodomy, rape, rape by instrumentation, or lewd molestation of a child under fourteen (14) years of age subsequent to a previous conviction for any offense of forcible anal or oral sodomy, rape, rape by instrumentation, or lewd molestation of a child under fourteen (14) years of age shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life without parole." 9
Some observers have suggested that these laws are a response to belief by the public that child molesters cannot be cured, and that legislators and courts should get tougher on crime.
No person convicted of child molestation has been executed since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976. However one inmate was convicted in 2003 of raping an 8-year-old girl in Louisiana. He is currently on death row.
Reactions to the Oklahoma law:
Reactions to the Oklahoma law were mixed:
Barbara Bergman, president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, believes that the law is unconstitutional. Precedents set by previous Supreme Court decisions indicate that the death penalty may be applied only in case of murder. She said:
"I'm not saying that raping a child is not a horrible crime, but no one has died."
Her comment echoes the Coker v. Georgia decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1977 which overturned the death penalty of a man convicted of raping an adult woman in Georgia. Their ruling said that execution was:
"...an excessive penalty for the rapist who, as such, does not take human life."
However, they were referring to an adult victim. With the recent shift to the right of the Court, they may well render the opposite view for child victims.
Oklahoma state Senator Jay Paul Gumm (D-Durant), sponsor of the bill, said:
"I feel like this is the message we need to send to anyone who is considering harming a child. These are the people who are going to continue to prey upon children until they are stopped. They're in the same ball park with murderers as far as I'm concerned."
Earlier, during debate on the bill, he said:
"Those who repeatedly prey on our children in this unspeakable manner should face the most severe penalties allowed under our justice system....There are too many stories of child molesters who are set free only to shatter the life of another innocent child. I want to make certain that in Oklahoma we are doing everything we can to ensure that never happens here in our state....We allow the death penalty for those who kill the body. Why wouldn’t we have the same penalty for someone who kills a soul?...By sending a message to those who repeatedly prey on our children that Oklahoma will not tolerate this sort of horrible crime, we are doing our part to create a safer Oklahoma for all our citizens." 6
David Brook is a law professor at Washington and Lee University who leads the Virginia Capital Case Clearing House -- a service that helps lawyers in capital cases. He expressed concern that the law might endanger a child rape victim's life. He said:
"The last message you want to give an offender who has the life of a child in his hands is you might as well kill the child because he's already got the death penalty. This is a very stupid message."
Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center believes that the public is distressed at the frequency and seriousness of sex crimes. This has prompted legislators to tackle the problem. He said:
"There is a political push to appear tough and on the victim's side. It's hard to say no."
Oklahoma state Representative Fred Morgan said:
"The public, the voters, everybody's fed up with child predators." During debate in the legislature, he referred to child molesters as "monsters" and "less than human."
Wes Lane, Oklahoma County district attorney, said:
"I would be a little bit surprised if the Supreme Court approves of that [law], but I have been wrong before. Nobody around here has any sympathy for child molesters."
He said that would gladly enforce such a law if it were declared constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Possible motivation for these laws:
Author Cory Rayburn has concluded that a major driving force behind the state laws allowing the death penalty in some cases of child rape is the Victorian era belief "that rape is indeed a fate worse than death." He notes that this belief has been "virtually uncontroverted among the various parties on all sides of the debate..." and in law reviews.
He suggests some possible adverse results of such laws:
An increase of child murder following rape: This is because there would be no additional penalty for murder. Since the only witnesses to a child rape are usually the perpetrator and the child, killing the child leaves no one to testify. "Thus, whatever deterrent effect the death penalty would have for would-be rapists, it would be more than offset by the number of murdered children that would result from the incentive to kill the only witness." The same dynamic may hold in states where there is a law allowing the death penalty for kidnapping.
A reduction in the reporting of rape: He commented: "Adding the death penalty to the family’s decision on whether to report will further discourage them from coming forward."
A decrease in the conviction rate of rapist: Juries are traditionally reluctant to find a person guilty if it might lead to an execution.
Degradation of women and children: By codifying the belief that rape is worse than death, women and children are debased as society values their "chastity over survival." Society will give a message to rape victim/survivors that a rape victim/survivor is worthless and might as well be dead.
Rayburn concludes:
"Is rape worse than death? One can only hope that in the future fewer of us know the answer to that question. Unfortunately, the approach of Louisiana and other sovereigns seems to ensure that more people will experience and come to understand both rape and death." 1
The possibility of executing innocent adults:
There was a flurry of trials during the 1980s and 1990s of adults charged with multi-victim, multi-offender (MVMO) sexual crimes against children in day care centers, by sexual molestation rings, etc. Fortunately, none were executed. However, many innocent adults were convicted of on the basis of false child testimony and misleading laboratory tests. Time has shown that all, or almost all, of the alleged perpetrators were innocent. Further studies showed that in all probability the crimes did not actually happen.
False memories of the crimes had been implanted as a result of improper child interview techniques which were in wide use at the time. Convictions were sometimes also based on unreliable laboratory testing. Further accusations of this type of crime have not appeared in North America since child psychologists and police investigators adopted more reliable interview methods. However, one exception did surface in Lewis Island, Scotland, in late 2003.
Jeffrey Rosenzweig, a criminal defense lawyer in Little Rock, AR, said the Oklahoma bill raises troubling questions about the fallibility of the criminal justice system and the ability of malevolent adults to pressure and coerce children into making false claims. He said:
"It is the area of law that is subject to more abuse and more false statements than any other area of law because of the inherent fallibility of the memory of children." 7
Unfortunately, studies have shown that children can disclose memories of sexual molestation that never happened, if they are repeatedly asked direct questions about such activity.
One can imagine a case in which parents or other adults who are untrained in proper interview techniques did precisely this after suspecting that some molestation had ocurred. The result could be the accidental implantation of false memories of rape or molestation into the mind of a child.
Probably a more common case would be when a separated couple was seeking a divorce and a decision about custody of their children. It is not unknown for one spouse to accuse the other of sexual abuse.
If the parent(s) claimed that their child had been the victim of forced sodomy or vaginal rape, and no such crime had occurred, the absence of physical evidence should prove that an assault never happened. But if oral rape or penetration with a device is alleged, it is possible that no physical evidence would be detectable even if the assault happened. The combination of:
False implanted memories of oral rape or penetration with a device and
The possibility of no physical evidence after the crime
could result in the conviction conviction of an innocent adult and a subsequent execution, based on the testimony of the child.
References used:
The following information sources were used to prepare and update the above essay. The hyperlinks are not necessarily still active today.
Corey Rayburn, "Better Dead than R(ap)ed?: The Patriarchal Rhetoric Driving Capital Rape Statutes," St. Johns Law Review, Vol. 78, No. 4, Page 1119, Fall 2004. The abstract is available from the Social Science Research Network at: http://papers.ssrn.com/ The abstract contains a link to the full text.
"Aggravated Murder," Crime Victims United, at: http://www.crimevictimsunited.org/ This lists the Criminal Code of Oregon as it existed in 1998.
Oklahoma State Senate bill SB 1747. The text is online at: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/
"Governor Brad Henry Signs Bill Allowing Death Penalty For Repeat Child Molesters," Associated Press, 2006-JUN-09, at: http://www.kotv.com/
Tim Talley, "Okla. Governor Approves Executing Molesters," 2006-JUN, at: http://www.enidnews.com/
"Death Penalty for Repeat Child Molesters Wins Approval in OK Senate," KTEN TV, 2006-MAR-14, at: http://www.kten.com/
"Sex offender law raises constitutional questions," Associated Press, 2006-JUN-08, at: http://www.news-star.com/
"Death penalty for repeat child molesters clears Okla. legislature," Herald Democrat, 2006-JUN-01, at: http://www.heralddemocrat.com/
"Bill No. 1800," Oklahoma Senate, at: http://www2.lsb.state.ok.us/2005-06bills/sb/sb1800_enr.rtf
Mont. Senate votes against death penalty
Measure carries 27-21 despite polls showing Montanans back punishment
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:53 p.m. ET Feb 23, 2007
HELENA, Mont. - The Democratic-controlled Senate on Friday gave preliminary approval to abolishing the death penalty in Montana.
After a lengthy debate in which lawmakers quoted Jesus, Thomas Jefferson and Ted Bundy, the Senate voted 27-21 to approve the measure.
The measure's sponsor, Sen. Dan Harrington, D-Butte, implored his colleagues to "show true political leadership" and do away with capital punishment, despite polls that show the majority of Montanans support it.
Proponents of the measure said the death penalty is costly, unfair, and does not serve as a deterrent.
"I don't think we should be in the killing business," said Sen. Dan Weinberg, D-Whitefish.
Opponents countered that the death penalty was needed to help victim's families.
"This is simply closure," said Sen. Greg Barkus, R-Kalispell.
The measure still faces a final Senate vote, before going to the Republican-controlled House.
Similar attempts have failed
Efforts to abolish the death penalty have failed in each of the past three legislative sessions. There are currently two prisoners on death row in Montana and the state has executed three people since the death penalty was reinstated in the 1970s. The most recent execution, of convicted murderer David Dawson, occurred just last year.
Opponents argued that the low number of executions proved the penalty was being used fairly for only the most dangerous criminals.
Sen. Jerry O'Neil, R-Kalispell, noted that one of the current death row inmates had killed a fellow prisoner with a baseball bat. He said some people are so dangerous that they can't be held in available prisons and the death penalty was a better alternative.
"It's obvious ... that we can't give these criminals, these animals, one scintilla of freedom in prison," he said.
Republicans largely opposed the measure, Democrats largely supported it. But there were a few members of both parties that switched sides.
One of them, Sen. Roy Brown, R-Billings, said his anti-abortion views led him to change his mind and vote for abolishing the death penalty.
"Even a guilty life is worth saving," he said.
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17304006/
Gentlemen - They are just trying to shake some shares loose before the impending run - Until the volume is higher, some weaker hands will be suckered into selling.
Just waiting here patiently, and adding a little along the way - Rome was not build in a day.
Shermann
It is hard enough for my wife to teach me to not wipe my hands on the dish towels.
Shermann
So what - that says nothing other than people are searching for Bin Laden - Whom is probably Dead.
We have plenty in the US looking for Elvis and Jim Morrison.
All sorts of clues - Even a once bitten Jelly Donut.
Shermann
He asked for links - I have hudreds of them about Bin Laden Dead.
The Presidents of Pakistan and Afghanistan both say he is dead.
And the list goes on and on and on.
Shermann
OMG - Fox News reports Bin Laden Dead!!!
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Wednesday, December 26, 2001
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,41576,00.html
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.
Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.
About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."
The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."
Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.
When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."
Karzai: bin Laden 'probably' dead
VIDEO
Afghan President Hamid Karzai told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Osama bin Laden is 'probably' dead but Taliban leader Mullah Omar is still alive
KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) --Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead, but former Taliban leader Mullah Omar is alive, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said.
Karzai's comments came on the eve of the anniversary of the start of the U.S.-led military campaign in Afghanistan as part of the war on terrorism.
The campaign ousted the Taliban regime, which the United States said harbored bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorism network, the group blamed for the September 11 attacks.
"I would come to believe that [bin Laden] probably is dead," Karzai said on CNN's "Late Edition" on Sunday.
"But still, you never know. He might be alive. Five months ago, six months ago, I was thinking that he was alive.
"The more we don't hear of him, and the more time passes, there is the likelihood that he probably is either dead or seriously wounded somewhere."
But he said Omar is certainly alive. "We know of that," he said. "And we have come close to arresting him several times, but he's been able to escape."
U.S. forces also have searched for Omar.
Karzai, leader of Afghanistan's interim government, said Omar is a difficult man to track down "because nobody knows him by face. Nobody can recognize him. If you came across him today, somewhere in Afghanistan or in the rest of the world, you wouldn't recognize him. So that's part of the problem with him.
"I believe he is most of the time inside Afghanistan. He could go, from time to time, toward our borders, but he stays around the Afghan area, sometimes close to the borders," Karzai said.
No threat
He contended the Taliban, which the United States designated a "terrorist" group, is a minimal threat to his government.
"They are now a group on the run. They are no longer a government. They are no longer a political movement. They are no longer a reality in Afghanistan," Karzai said.
"We don't see them as a danger in any way, of course. As a terrorist organization, as terrorist individuals, they may try to strike and they may try to assassinate or shoot people or lob bombs. That kind of activity they can do, but not a political or military threat anymore."
Karzai, who was the target of an assassination attempt September 5, said the perpetrator has been identified and is "someone very, very close to the Taliban."
He insisted he is not afraid for his life: "I trust God's keeping, and when he decides I'll not be here anymore, that will be the moment. Before that, I have no fears."
Karzai said U.S. and allied forces are helping to stabilize and keep Afghanistan "away from dangers," partly by training Afghan security forces.
But "there are other areas in which the international community has not delivered the promises that they made, especially in the reconstruction of the basic infrastructure of Afghanistan."
Karzai said his country has not received the economic support it expected from the international community for rebuilding efforts.
It is not clear how much longer the United States and its allies will need to keep a military presence in Afghanistan, Karzai said. But "at this point, I think it will be very, very unwise to think that Afghanistan can be left alone."
In the midst of a U.S. debate over possible military action against the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq, Karzai said he is unconcerned that the United States might shift its attention from Afghanistan to that country.
President Bush's administration has threatened Iraq with military action, accusing it of expanding and developing weapons of mass destruction.
"But I would like to remind our friends in the United States and in the international community that we have to really finish the job in Afghanistan completely," Karzai said.
Find this article at:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/06/karzai.binladen
CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July
French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital
Anthony Sampson
Thursday November 1, 2001
The Guardian
Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.
Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.
Article continues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.
Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".
The American hospital in Dubai emphatically denied that Bin Laden was a patient there.
Washington last night also denied the story.
Private planes owned by rich princes in the Gulf fly frequently between Quetta and the Emirates, often on luxurious "hunting trips" in territories sympathetic to Bin Laden. Other sources confirm that these hunting trips have provided opportunities for Saudi contacts with the Taliban and terrorists, since they first began in 1994.
Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.
According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.
Whether the allegations about the Dubai meeting are confirmed or not, the wider leaks from the French secret service throw a worrying light on the rivalries and lack of coordination between intelligence agencies, both within the US and between western allies.
A familiar complaint of French intelligence is that collaboration with the Americans has been essentially one-way, with them happy to receive information while giving little in return.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/19/gen.musharraf.binladen.1.19/index.html
Musharraf: bin Laden likely dead
EXCERPTS:
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) --Pakistan's president says he thinks
Osama bin Laden is most likely dead because the
suspected terrorist has been unable to get treatment for
his kidney disease.
"I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ...
kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an
interview with CNN.
Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis
machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own
personal use," he said.
"I don't know if he has been getting all that treatment in
Afghanistan now. And the photographs that have been shown
of him on television show him extremely weak. ... I would
give the first priority that he is dead and the second priority
that he is alive somewhere in Afghanistan."
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_3.html
http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_terrorism_10_16.html
Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, October 16, 2002
TEL AVIV Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have
decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United
States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said.
Al Qaida terrorists have launched a new campaign of economic warfare and
are targeting shipping in the Middle East, according to U.S. intelligence
officials.
The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin
Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in
December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are
probably fabrications, Middle East Newsline reported.
But Bin Laden's heir has been chosen and his colleagues have decided to
resume Al Qaida's offensive against the United States and Western allies,
the sources said.
They said the organization regards the United States as the main target
followed by Israel.
"In this case, it doesn't matter whether Bin Laden is alive or not," a
senior Israeli intelligence source said. "The organization goes on with
help from key people."
The sources said Al Qaida has already determined Bin Laden's heir. They
said the heir has not been identified, but is probably not Bin Laden's
son, Saad. Saad is said to be in his 20s and ranked within the top 20
members of Al Qaida.
Earlier this week, Bin Laden's deputy, Ayman Zawahiri, was said to have
released a videotape in which he claims that the Al Qaida leader is alive
and functioning. Bin Laden's voice was not heard on the tape.
A senior Bush administration economic official said last week that another
major Al Qaida attack anywhere in the world could have devastating
economic repercussions.
The FBI warned last week that Al Qaida may be preparing for a major
attack. The warning followed the release of an audio tape featuring the
voice of Zawahiri.
Bombings in Bali aimed at tourists, an attack on U.S. soldiers training in
Kuwait and the bombing of a French tanker in Yemen are signs of the new
campaign, Geostrategy-Direct.com reported in its Oct. 22 edition.
The first attack was carried out last week with the Al Qaida terrorist
attack on the French tanker Limburg, a 157,000-ton ultra large crude oil
carrier, that was bombed as it picked up a pilot before mooring at the
Yemeni port of al Shihr.
One crew member was killed and others were injured in the blast.
According to intelligence officials, a small boat approached at high speed
from the starboard side of the ship and detonated a large explosive
device.
A week earlier, the Office of Naval Intelligence issued an alert to ships
in the Middle East to be alert for Al Qaida terrorist attacks.
Israeli Intelligence - Bin Laden Dead.
http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/binladen/death/israeli-intel-bl-dead.txt
Shermann
Centcom General thinks Bin Laden is Dead.
http://www.pentagon.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040929-secdef1361.html
Shermann
FBI Official Thinks Bin Laden Is Dead
WASHINGTON, July 17, 2002
FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson said Wednesday he believes Osama bin Laden is dead — the first time a senior U.S. law enforcement official has publicly given an opinion on the al Qaeda leader's status.
Watson, speaking at a conference of law enforcement officials at a downtown hotel, quickly emphasized that he had no evidence that bin Laden was dead, but his comments suggest that the FBI has no intelligence that proves bin Laden is alive.
"Is (bin Laden) alive or is he dead?" Watson said. "I am not really sure of the answer ... I personally think he is probably not with us anymore but I have no evidence to support that."
Watson also said that bin Laden's network of terrorist training camps has been dismantled, but "there is no question in my mind ... we will be attacked again."
Watson, who rarely makes public appearances, is the top official for counterterrorism and counterintelligence in the FBI. He did not elaborate on his comments on bin Laden and rushed away from reporters after he spoke.
CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports speculation over bin Laden intensified in recent weeks largely because of items in the Arab press. One report claimed knowledge that bin Laden was wounded in the shoulder during fighting at his Tora Bora hideout early this year and was treated at a Pakistani hospital. Another report speculated bin Laden died in the fighting.
In June, Abu Gaith, bin Laden's spokesman, released an audiotape to an Arab television outlet. He also claimed that "Sheikh Osama Bin Laden is in good health, and those in command of al Qaeda are still carrying out their responsibilities."
Adding to the speculation is the fact that it's been several months since bin Laden has been seen, and with each taped appearance his health and appearance seemed to deteriorate.
The FBI has obtained samples of bin Laden's DNA and last month were checking it against tissue and body parts, including a skull, recovered from Afghan battlefields. The skull, however, turned out to belong to a woman.
Privately, officials can't understand why bin Laden, if he is alive, hasn't surfaced to thumb his nose at the U.S. The al Qaeda response to that is that bin Laden is just being patient and awaiting the results of the next attack on America.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/17/attack/printable515468.shtml
Dont listen to his Slam Liberal talk. He cannot hear you anyways.
Until he defines "Liberal", we have no idea what he is talking about.
People like you and I want True Americans in the Image of the Founding Fathers. Uniters, and not dividers.
This liberal vs. conservative issue is just equivalent to what the Black vs. White issue was. A way to divide people, and take their eye off of what is truly important.
Shermann
"you could almost say that every penny we've spent on this war is what the FED has profited".
The real Fed profit right now is lending money via government securities, and paying back later with a devalued dollar.
Countries like China and Saudi Arabia have become more vocal about this lately. That was why the Chinese currency used to be pegged to the dollar.
Of course, the loser is the consumer in the US.
Higher interest rates, and more $$$$$ to buy the same overseas products.
Shermann
Bruce Lawrence is Just fine.
He happened to be wrong on some of the content of the book assuming it was from Osama Bin Laden.
Many people believe that Bin Laden died at the end of 2001 or sometime in early 2002. That would include the President of Pakistan, as well as many members or the US intelligence agencies, and many others around the world.
I have read about Bin Laden in Periodicals, Interviews, and OP-ED type stuff from all over the world.
My recommendation to US soldiers - Bring Shovels when hunting for Bin Laden.
Shermann
OMG - Fake Bin Laden Tapes, used to justify a Fake War on Terror????
http://physics911.net/kevinbarrett
Shermann
Not more Fake Bin Laden!!!
Bin Laden tape a fake, Swiss lab says
Scientists compared recording to 20 other tapes of terror chief
PARIS (AP) - The latest audiotape statement attributed to accused terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden is not authentic, a Swiss research institute said.
The Lausanne-based Dalle Molle Institute for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence said it is 95-per-cent certain the tape does not feature the voice of the long-absent terrorist leader.
The review of the tape was commissioned by France-2 television and its findings were presented by the institute's Professor Herve Boulard in a special TV report shown late Thursday.
He said the institute compared the voice on the tape, first aired two weeks ago on Al-Jazeera, an Arabic television network, with some 20 earlier recordings of bin laden.
U.S. experts maintain the tape will likely never be fully authenticated because its poor quality defies complete analysis by even the most sophisticated voice-print technology.
But U.S. experts who have heard it generally support the conclusion by U.S. law-enforcement officials that it probably is bin Laden speaking.
In the tape, the speaker refers to recent terrorist strikes U.S. officials believe are connected to bin Laden's Al Qaeda network. If fully verified, it would provide the first evidence in a year that bin Laden survived U.S. bombing in Afghanistan.
"Resistance is Futile!!!!"
Shermann
Some more on Bin Laden and fake Tapes.
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/surprise/
Shermann
From the text:
The following quote from "messages to the World" has been judged as a fake and not from Al-Quaeda by the CIA, FBI, and others.
I would hardly call "messages to the world" as being 100% accurate.
See http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html
and http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
for additional Bin Laden info
“We continue to make America bleed profusely to the point of bankruptcy, Allah willing. And that is not too difficult for Allah. Whoever says that Al Qaeda triumphed over the White House administration, or that the White House administration lost this war—this is not entirely accurate, for if we look carefully at the results, it is impossible to say that Al Qaeda is the only cause of these amazing gains. The White House policy, which strove to open war fronts to give business to their various corporations—in armament, oil, and construction…also helped accomplish these astonishing achievements for Al Qaeda. It appeared to some analysts and diplomats that we and the White House play as one team to score a goal against the United States of America, even though our intentions differ.” — Osama Bin Laden, October 29, 2004
Here is one of many:
http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/PassengerList.shtml
Shermann
We are both correct.
a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative; "he believed all the Marxist dogma"
Me Bad.
Shermann
Through the Freedom of Information Act, all 4 passenger lists were obtained from 9-11.
There is not one Muslim/Arab name on any of them!!!
Shermann
Could we actually be lucky enough for Alberto to resign!!!!
Shermann
We need more people paying attention, and fewer lemmings.
What it takes for that?
An inspirational leader, or a nice recession, or an Invasion of Iran, .....
Just something big to shock people into demanding change.
Shermann
This all reminds me of Martha Stewart getting prosecuted, and all the Big Fish swimming away in the media frenzy.
Shermann
Short live the FED and the IRS.
Abolish the Income tax and all taxes on Business.
All we need is a national sales tax with a prebate for the poor.
Much like H.R. 25 with some changes.
Shermann
Many people like Dick Cheney are pushing for a single world government and currency.
I think this has a lot more to do with our doctrine of preventative wars than most people think.
Shermann
"blind dogma of liberalism"
Dogma applies to religions and not political parties.
Shermann
OK
Women of Afghanistan and Iraq:
The only winner of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars are:
The defense contractors!!!
Shermann
P.S. Ask the women in the bombed out areas why they are terrified to have children - See Depleted Uranium.
Also - Check out the rights of women in Iraq prior to the invasion. You will be shocked with what you find.
You are absolutely correct.
The Evils of war are crimes against those who actually fight.
May they find the peace they deserve, and may the ones who sent them live the nightmares they have caused for millions.
Shermann
A Good Day to All!!!
Long Live Ron Paul and Short Live the Fed!!!
Shermann
The only winner of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars are:
The defense contractors!!!
Shermann