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"somebody tell our "genius" lawyers to tell Lambreth that Uglioti lied under oath please"
They think, the best way to serve their client is to be politically correct and do not say anything against Gov and Bureaucrats that hurts their feelings and self esteem.
Probably they should start with some criminal complaints for robbing private shareholder companies and keeping the companies under conservatorship without due process. It does not make it any legal because lawless HERA does not specifically prohibit it.
"The fhfa will maintain that that the business judgment rule protects their poor business decisions."
The dictatorial bureaucrats and politically motivated judges are basically rotten to the core. They think that people are idiots and do not understand the difference between theft and business decisions.
Imposition of never ending Conservatorship, SPSPA concrete life preservers, NWS are not business decisions. Imposing bank like capital requirements is not a business decision. Using banking laws to regulate non-banking companies is not a business decision.
SCOTUS needs to provide some guidelines to identify what are business decisions and what are not.
When Gov agencies start managing private companies and start robbing them, there is no business involved.
"https://www.fhfa.gov//SupervisionRegulation/Rules/Pages/Comment-Detail.aspx?CommentId=15921"
No one thinks that the fellow travelers or bureaucrats at FHFA understand a thing about how to run a simple business leave alone the highly complex insurance and MBS business.
The fellow travelers could not even bring down FnF - private shareholder companies even after using every possible unlawful means. Does anyone need better proof than this that FnF models can not be any better than what they are already?
"I don't believe SCOTUS will do anything to limit the government and the government won't comply anyway if they did. "
Looks like a true statement. SCOTUS has expanded the scope and authority of federal gov from a limited form of representative Gov to ever expanding and dictatorial/unaccountable form of Gov Bureaucracy.
"Did Moelis - after all the dilution and assumptions about paying back the LT leave anything for common ? or was it all a JPS paper?"
In unsolicited Moelis plan, there was no way to validate or ascertain whether it will work or not. If Moelis were to provide underwriting for their plan then it would have made some sense.
"If DURING conservatorship !!! - the conservatorship status moves the private FNMA to a real or DE Facto GOV agency - then FNMA (and FHFA) must act to higher standards of accountability"
That is the hope in a democracy. If all the branches of Gov connive then anything is possible. All have seen in this with HERA and Conservatorship.
In which democracy will they exempt any Gov agency from accountability? Or even going further where in the world a Gov agency is exempt from accountability unless it is a complete dictatorship.
Unsolicited private Moelis plan was never an option at any time. May be if comrade Hank and Comrade fellow travelers were still in charge, then there was some hope.
"The Montilla Plaintiffs are asking the U.S. Supreme Court
to review the First Circuit’s decision and to consider if
Fannie Mae, when in conservatorship, and FHFA, when acting
as Fannie’s conservator, are government actors."
"Liberty requires accountability. However, “by passing off a Government operation as an independent private concern,” the Government can regulate without such accountability. This case provides the Court with an opportunity to ensure that Executive agencies and any private entities they control are held accountable to their constitutional obligations. This Court’s review is required to uphold the Judiciary’s role in checking the Executive branch from constitutional overreach and defending the individual liberties enshrined in our Constitution."
Very important question before SCOTUS. Let us hope this time that SCOTUS does not callously drop the ball on the important questions of the rule of Constitution and Indiviudula rights.
If FHFA were to be held to the same accuntability standards as any other Gov agancies then
1. it would not have acted like mob conservatorship imposing mob like decisions on private shareholder companies.
2. FnF would have been free from the clutches of mob like FHFA conservatorship.
HERA and FHFA conservatorship are nothing short of communist dictratorship like in China. May be Comrade Hank was inspired by the communist dictratorship in China and tried the same here.
"there is nothing in these two bills for fannie mae as far as i can tell"
No one can be very sure. Most of the time, Congress passes the bills and POTUS signs the bills in to law without reading the bills.
"You're going to have to come up with some really unique stories to push dillution and conversion. Can't wait to hear them."
After the experience of 2008 financial meltdown triggered by the harebrained or mafia imposition of conservatorship, no administration can take the risk of any failure. So any risk of failure is not an option. BTW what is the urgency to act and take the risk while FnF are consistently building their capital year after year.
Besides any regulatory action to dilute one class shareholders to benefit other class of shareholders will surely attract provisions of 5th amendment and other laws.
"Pretty bold ruling on your part KT! I would probably allow someone wearing a black robe to definitively determine whether or not the US governments actions in this 13+ year CONservatorship were legal or unconstitutional as well as specifically what if any ruling would be and have on our investments."
Gov officials announced in 2008 that the PPS of FnF will be determined by free market forces. So Gov has to compensate Shareholders to minimum of their purchase price and expectations associated with the purchase. BTW nobody told any one not to buy or not to expect rule of law to prevail.
"Pelosi pushes for Build Back Better vote Thursday, but key sticking points remain"
Does it affect FnF in anyway?
"hate it/love it. it is what it is."
LOL, YES, this is what we have to keep on repeating whenever they peddle their fake propaganda.
"Rushing along??? It’s been 13 plus years There is nothing to fix anymore except the crooked balance sheets Just deem the govt paid back Void the spsa LP and the warrants Do a consent decree saying release now and full release when around 130-150 billion are retained in earnings in a few years meaning dividends can start again These companies already have more cap than the most recent stress tests No massive dilution is needed
In fact none at all So relax with the jps dilution narrative and don’t rush
Glta"
All valid points.
"During the housing boom of the 2000s and the crash in 2008, the GSEs were woefully undercapitalized. They were rescued by the federal government and placed into conservatorship with strict oversight by their regulator the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA)."
The unscrupulous guys are peddling the same propaganda garbage.
The correct factual statement should have been.
Fraudulent mortgage lending, fake rating, and PLMBS securitization practices created 2008 financial crisis. Revolving door bureaucrats abused their power to exact revenge on their private rivals and turned the bad situation in to worse situation. They used this as an excuse to impose dictatorial and unaccountable conservatorship on adequately capitalized FnF (as certified by the Gov Regulators and confirmed TSY Sy and Fed chairman) and the only companies that were in good financial health, and this triggered the 2008 financial meltdown. In the last 13 years, fellow travelers used FHFA to destroy FnF using every unlawful means and but failed. FnF have remained as TINA model companies and have become most profitable companies with even more high quality assets.
"I agree, there is no Statute of Limitations on Constitutional Claims is there?"
So far what ever has happened with FnF (HERA, FHFA, Conservatorship, SPSPA, NWS, judicial rulings, capital requirements..) have not followed any rule of law or legal principles or any reason or any logic.
So trying to reason based on any rule of law or legal principles or any reason or any logic is meaningless.
Good starting point would be to abolish HERA and reverse all decisions taken under HERA.
"I like my solution better for FHFA. Go there, tell them there is a fire drill and everyone go outside. When the building is clear, cut out the lights, lock the doors, and tell them all to go home and never come back.
Instant savings for the GSEs of $100+ million/year."
All need to look at root cause - lawless HERA, that created unaccountable and dictatorial Gov agency FHFA and empowered it to commit all kinds of atrocious acts against democracy and against free market capital economy.
The funny thing is, FHFA could rob FnF as private entity and then claim Gov immunity. Even funnier is, judiciary supported this weird legal concept.
"That was a big problem because only FHFA had the statutory power to put Fannie and Freddie into conservatorship. We had to convince its people that this was the right thing to do, while making sure to let them feel they were still in charge."
He abused immense gov powers to take revenge on rival private companies and CEOs. He brought down not only US economy but also world economy causing immense pain and suffering to all for the benefit of his cronies. At the end of it he had the temerity to boast about it. For all this work taxpayers paid him more than $200M in tax savings.
"Got a link to where we may post these comments???"
https://www.fhfa.gov/SupervisionRegulation/Rules/Pages/Comment-List.aspx?RuleID=708
"The disturbing thing about the SCOTUS decision is that their excuse pretty much negates the reason to have a Supreme Court. Rights are more important when times are tough."
Looks like they only care about themselves. That is why they continue to be there when they should be in retirement.
"Housing prices could come down later if preferences change, Williams said, but there is less credit risk in the housing markets and banks are better prepared to handle that kind of shift than they were before the Great Recession."
2008 financial crisis happened mainly because of various types of frauds starting from lending to PLMBS. The crisis was amplified and exacerbated by the revolving door bureaucrats to take revenge on their rivals. Imposing conservatorship on FnF was the worst of these decisions that ultimately resulted in total financial meltdown worldwide.
Basically revolving door bureaucrats used vast Gov powers and deep pockets to decide who will be the winners and the losers. This is worst form of abuse of Gov power and funds.
"end conservatorship? That's where your theory f=goes off the rails. C-Ship is here to stay."
You are saying conservatorship is going to be another regular corporate governance style. It happens under socialist and communists. Socialists and communists rob until they have nothing more to rob. Then they become capitalists with all the robbed money.
May be one day FHFA will have nothing much to rob from FnF and then release them.
"Those two reasons are the reason are enough, don't you think?"
Yes, as long as all the branches of Gov agree on some thing whether legal or illegal then nobody can do anything about it other than people voting them out in the elections.
Current problem is all the branches of Gov are busy promoting political and lobbyists agenda.
But if Gov no longer wants to keep FnF impaired with concrete life preservers, then technically there are no roadblocks. With Administration policy changing from winddown to end conservatorship, it makes no sense to keep them on OTC markets.
"while under conservatorship...Z-E-R-O chance they get uplisted. ZERO.
"
Any reasons.
"Shockingly Senator Pat Toomey wants more required capital not less:"
Looks like a sponsored letter on similar lines to what Sen. Corker used to do..
mrfence,
We need to gather all the points, combine them and present them in well written format and submit to FHFA.
Comments on FHFA Rulemaking/Notice Number:RIN-2590-AB17
--------------------------------------------------------
https://www.fhfa.gov/SupervisionRegulation/Rules/Pages/Comment-List.aspx?RuleID=708
"Q: What are the goals of this conservatorship?
A: The purpose of appointing the Conservator is to preserve and conserve the Company’s assets and property and to put the Company in a sound and solvent condition. The goals of the conservatorship are to help restore confidence in the Company, enhance its capacity to fulfill its mission, and mitigate the systemic risk that has contributed directly to the instability in the current market. There is no reason for concern regarding the ongoing operations of the Company. The Company’s operation will not be impaired and business will continue without interruption."
How is that nobody cares about these official FHFA announcements and promises to We the People?
Do official FHFA announcements have any legal validity to hold FHFA accountable?
Administration, Congress, Judiciary and FHFA have lot to explain to People about their capricious decisions and rulings that have no historical precedence that have caused irreparable damage to FnF shareholders and have shaken the trust of investors in FnF and capital markets.
HERA is copy of a banking laws that applies to FDIC. FDIC is a insurance corporation besides a banking regulator. FDIC provides explicit insurance coverage on bank deposit accounts to protect banks from bank runs. So FDIC has legitimate business interests to act in its own interest as a insurance corporation but not as a banking regulator.
FnF are mono-line insurance companies and have nothing to do with banking and are not vulnerable to bank runs. FHFA is only a regulator and not a insurance corporation. FHFA does not provide any insurance or guarantees on FnF deposits. So naturally FHFA can not claim any legitimate business interests to act in its own interest and impound FnF capital assets.
Using banking laws (HERA) for "targeted" regulation of non-banking private shareholder companies (FnF) to circumvent well established legal framework (risk based capital requirements for mono-line insurance companies, conservatorship process etc ) and, to impair FnF and harm the FnF shareholders (using SPS/NWS and perpetual conservatorship) violates the most basic legal principles and most basic constitutional principles.
This aberration is glaringly clear with more than 13 years of apaquely and secretly run FHFA conservatorship with no accountability to anyone and completely impaired conservatees that were very well capitalized and in good financial health at the time of start of conservatorship.
After more than 13 years of tortuous FnF conservatorship, it must convince all that there are no better alternatives than to evolving FnF business models. All along it has been the political/Gov decisions that are the root cause of all the actual and made up FnF problems.
More than 13 years of unaccountable and harmful FHFA conservatorship has made it impossible now, for FnF to raise any new core capital from the markets. The first step to rehabilitating FnF as private shareholder companies is to end FHFA conservatorship and let FnF build their capital in whatever best possible manner without onerous FHFA mandates. FnF have paid back more than their original SPS obligations to Gov. It is time for FHFA to release FnF free from unreasonable SPS obligations. Gov has the obligations to support FnF in building up their capital after all the harm FHFA conservatorship has done to them.
Shareholders request FHFA to end this repugnant Conservatorship and return FnF to lawful owners without any further delay.
"and to all those who think that Lamberth, Schwarz (Sweeney's sidekick) are gonna right these wrongs...call me, I've got a bridge to sell."
Under lawless HERA, no one can get any judicial remedies. Under lawless HERA anything is legal under SCOTUS ruling. Lower courts will get that hint. BTW courts are still using the fake narratives of FHFA that FnF were bankrupt and needed Gov bailout.
But the below case seems to have good chance.
http://www.glenbradford.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/21-cv-01949-0001.pdf
4. This action seeks relief solely for the Government’s actions as regulator in imposing the conservatorships, and not for its actions as conservator after placing the GSEs into conservatorship on September 6, 2008.
I am not sure why no plaintiffs have challenged whole HERA as unconstitutional.
"Media too. Financial media and otherwise."
All know these media are fake, corrupt and tools of propaganda. They do not have constitutional duty.
But Judiciary has constitutional duty to be independent and be the guardian of constitutional system of Governance. With so many conflicting case laws no one really knows what constitution really means.
These garbage case laws have made original constitution meaningless to any one.
"This is where your 100% wrong. They have to explain nothing. Even more so if never asked. Government and media blackout.
Game
Set
Match"
Yes, the whole constitutional system of checks and balances has failed with all the branches of Gov conniving together to make each other unaccountable to anyone. So Gov conservator can rob, steal, lie, mislead, be unaccountable, make other unaccountable and do anything he wants with the conservatees.
Judiciary seems to be mainly responsible for this.
"Q: What are the goals of this conservatorship?
A: The purpose of appointing the Conservator is to preserve and conserve the Company’s assets and property and to put the Company in a sound and solvent condition. The goals of the conservatorship are to help restore confidence in the Company, enhance its capacity to fulfill its mission, and mitigate the systemic risk that has contributed directly to the instability in the current market. There is no reason for concern regarding the ongoing operations of the Company. The Company’s operation will not be impaired and business will continue without interruption."
How is that nobody seem to care about this?
Do official announcements has any legal validity and hold the Gov accountable?
Administration, congress, judiciary and FHFA have lot to explain to public about their decisions and rulings that have no historical precedence.
"I wish you the best."
Thanks, Good luck to all FnF shareholders (CS and JPs).
SPS shareholders have already made big money, hope they will stop being too greedy.
"Why do I like the JPS? Maybe cos it has contract claims, and other outstanding cases, whcih are still alive rather than long dead"
Do you know why FnF are not buy back their JPS at almost 94% discount price from the market?
"You seem bitter. Remember that we all die and when someone wrongs you, the anger(you feel)hurts you."
Not sure what you suggesting to FnF shareholders.
Is it not more than 20 thousand shareholders of every kind that have been mislead and harmed by the mafia conservatorship? Are all these shareholders not feeling wronged?
Unless all FnF shareholders express their views and protest, how will public and Gov bureaucrats know about FnF shareholder grievances.
I believe there are lots of honest Gov officials (elected and appointed) who are honest and want to do the rights things as per law and serve the people. We need their help to correct all these lawless decisions.
The best thing we can do is to express freely what we feel.
"Don’t convert. Not sure how you issue new common in a utility model with no common dividend"
It is mafia catch 22 problem.
1. Unless mafia conservatorship ends no one is going to invest fresh capital in FnF
2. Mafia conservator will not end mafia conservatorship unless fnf are fully capitalized
3. No one is going to invest fresh capital in FnF unless they are 100% sure that they money is safe.
4. With lawless HERA and Mafia conservatorship no one is sure about their investment in FnF
5. Investor need stable and predictable corporate environment to invest.
6. Lawless HERA and Mafi conservatorship have created corporate environment that is anything but stable and and predictable corporate environment
Only way to get out of this mafia catch 22 problem is to end mafia conservatorship, let FnF operate in free market environment and build the trust of investors.
To begin with there will be no dividend until FnF meet regulatory capital requirements. As of now FnF should focus on building their capital without raising new capital from market and there is no need for it.
Ending mafia conservatorship starts with ending mafia conservatorship without any conditions and not based on FnF raising new capital from markets.
"Why is there a need to convert jps?"
There is no need for any company to convert debt in to equity if the company does not have any liquidity problems or debt servicing problems.
Debt conversion to commons is the well known mafia strategy of loan sharks. They are always looking to wipe out commons and convert their debt into commons at highly discounted price.
In case of FnF:
1. they are highly profitable,
2. they have very high liquidity and good cash flows,
3. they have very high quality assets,
4. they do not have any debt servicing problems,
5. they never have the problem of run on deposits like banks
6. They are stress tested and their current capital levels are sufficient to withstand any counter cyclical demands
7. they have very viable and successful TINA business model.
Before conservatorship FnF were very well capitalized. They are low in capital after 13 years of mafia conservatorship. Mafia conservator plundered and robbed all their capital in the last 13 years. Even now FnF can build their capital easily if mafia conservator stops robbing them and courts stops supporting mafia conservatorship.
Courts have to realize that they are undermining the basic foundation of the country with their support for lawless decisions of FHFA conservator. Eventually common citizens will end up paying for these lawless decisions of the FHFA conservator and the support of the courts. Courts should put an end to this mafia conservatorship. The amazing thing is USFC has used word mafia to describe the conduct of FHFA conservatorship but plaintiffs are so timid to use this word themselves in their filings.
The best option for FnF and all its stakeholders are:
1. Set SPS to zero as fully paid
2. Continue the support of SPS at free market rates until FnF are fully capitalized
3. let FnF buyback warrants at nominal price
4. Let FnF decide on how best to build capital without destabilizing the markets
It is as simple as above and does not require any great financial analysis.
"Thanks to court judges it's looking bad now. you bastard thieves may GODS wrath come upon you criminal, useless judges."
These judges seem to be insular in every possible way from the suffering of common people. The highly diverse group of FnF shareholders from every walk of life (rich and poor, young and old, working and retired, windows, living and dead) have been suffering for more than 13 years with criminalistic HERA and judicial charade goes on...
They have life time job and no accountability to any one. There should be a way to atleast hold these people accountable to the rules they have set for themselves.
Every one keeps on wondering how the hell Courts ignored every rule when it came to FnF shareholders. SCOTUS on its own recognition as well as based on the ruling of Judge Lambeth, should have sent HERA back to congress
because HERA violates every basic legal principle leave alone constitutional principles and common sense.
"The Eighth Circuit released a seven-page opinion today,
The Eighth Circuit says Judge Schiltz erred in dismissing
the Bhatti Plaintiffs’ suit, it reversed the dismissal of
plaintiffs’ separation-of-powers claim,"
If not for scotus ruling, 8C would have rubber stamped lower court ruling. This is the travesty of Judiciary. Not sure if is there any separating line between these rulings and hypocrisy.
"We own (those of us not chicken shyts) 20.1%, which are tied to the governments 79.9%. Anyone on here claiming this will go to .30, .20 or zero and also claiming government is going to exercise the warrants need to get their head out of their azz's. That would be quite a few peolpe on here.
Nothing but scare mongering shorters.
Agree.