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That makes sense. I knew her before she married Danny. When she was a model we collaborated for a couple of illustration jobs. At that time she had a gray market Porsche 944.
Somehow this reminds me of Elmore Leonard's quote about his wife driving a red Cadillac convertible he bought for her, ' Now there's a picture.' EOM
While we are waiting to confirm something about Torvec, you reminded me of Wegman's parking lot. One day a year or so ago I actually did see a red Ferrari in the Pittsford Wegman's lot. Nice summer day so I tried to check it out and make sure it wasn't some kind of Camaro kit car. It was the real deal. Perfect metalwork, fit & finish, interior, a pretty awesome car. Parked near the end of the lot, but near other cars. Would all those other drivers understand how rare that car is? Probably, there wasn't a mark on it. Had a license plate holder with Canandaigua stamped in the border. It's been a while so I can't remember which model it was. Maybe a 599 or a 458. I looked it up at the time and found out there was a two year waiting list for that model.
At the other end of the Plaza, on the same kind of summer day, I was picking up a RX at Rite Aide and saw a sort of Cobra. White with blue racing stripe, open cockpit, cut down windshield, but sort of older look to it. Turns out it was a Arnolt/Bristol. Very rare.
Your remark reminds me that this kind of chance encounter make me go kind of nuts, but other people, like my wife, say it's a 'nice' car. I wish I had at least a little bit of their objectivity. As to the 'sighting,' I could care less at this point. Unless it is someone who can write a big order for mining parts, pumps or OEM car parts, I'm not sure what another name brings to the party, but I have no idea what's going on at Mt. Read, so good luck to whatever.
Maybe it's because it is Tax day, but I think at least one wheel has come off this economy and Torvec might be in a race to make something happen before the world figures out a way to move off the increasingly shrinking dollar. On that note and with your taxes paid, I'll point out that the Bristol looked like it would be kind of uncomfortable outside of a historic race. The Ferrari was everything you could imagine times 10, good and bad. EOM
I recall him as saying they were working to place a few products with companies and industries that would provide the fastest commercialization of Torvec ideas. He mentioned what was happening and said he had high hopes, but that he didn't expect a profit flow for months. He said it could happen sooner, but he believed in Murphy's law and didn't want to create false expectations... something to that effect. IMO.
I think you are correct. I know Keith loved and respected his brother and everything they did with Torvec. He certainly could have done something if the family wanted to, but everyone is looking forward to new approaches and avenues for Torvec. Jim's legacy will be a successful Torvec.
Forgot to mention a new 450 person patent filing/protection firm in DC has been hired to get the best, current, protection for Torvec patents. Keith mentioned that most, if not all, the Torvec products discussed at the meeting have world wide protection for about the next 20 years. Kaplan, or some one mentioned, that Torvec would always be thinking of retaining control of either the gear cutting parts or the gears themselves in future deals as another way of protecting vital Torvec designs from being illegally copied. EOM
For what it is worth my impressions of the meeting.
Biggest attendance I've ever seen. The usual intro and 2 videos from Saunders and Heinricy. Heinricy was in town before the meeting, but had to go to a race in Florida where someone said he is racing a new Subaru Legacy. Richard Kaplan seems to be all the things people have been asking for over the years. Articulate, excited about the products, interested in the products and most of all seems to have a plan to make money ASAP from those products.
I liked a couple of things he said about how to move from R&D to profit. He reshuffled the internal organization to clarify decisions and to focus responsibility for results. He has a priority list based on maximum return to the broadest market in the least amount of time. His plan for moving the product from here to there is objective, as in, things will go wrong, nothing is done till the checks clear, and the way into a major deal is to partner with established companies that already supply a similar product. Instead of thinking the only problem is, 'not invented here,' he correctly pointed out that big players need to know they will get large quantities of product with the quality they need by the date they need them.
He handled questions great, even the one about the FTV where he simply said he wasn't going to talk about it. He pointed out the problem with spending too much time and money on limited markets. He has a sense of humor about himself, which is on top of great confidence about Torvec, and a very good business approach. At least that's the way it seemed to me.
A question was raised about how long it would take to make products industry tested. He acknowledged that is usually a long, expensive process, but that Torvec had arrived at a point from years of effort where we were dealing with people at a level in OEMs that could make go decisions faster than starting at the bottom of the engineering chain. He was also excited about the racing success that Torvec had the last couple of years. As a Viper owner he related the story of his Viper skidding almost out of control because of the Chrysler differential issues and the fact that racing Viper went through their differentials after a couple of laps. The Heinricy connection is also expected to take us faster and deeper than normal, he didn't say that directly, but it was implied if I remember correctly. That reminded me about the effort to sell Iso-Torques to the public, so I asked if that wouldn't be an immediate bypass of extensive product testing. He said Torvec was only going to sell you an Iso-Torque for your Corvette/Camaro through a dealer network or an after market customizer. I got the impression this wasn't going to happen unless Torvec could be assured of the minimum number they needed to make it worthwhile. Could be wrong about that. Another related question about the relationship with RIT was answered by saying Torvec expects to utilize them for testing and validation of Torvec results.
Several people seemed excited about the mining deal because the industry really needs a scaled up Iso-Torque. It's amazing the 50 ton coal cars work at all now, so anything that increases their durability will be as welcome as the gigantic tires they use till the bitter end, because they are so expensive and hard to replace. As Torvec's head of engineering told me, that's another problem because the tires are often different dimensions, which puts more strain on the drive train. Considering the cost of downtime for these cars, the industry is highly motivated to quickly install whatever works from Torvec and I would think be willing to pay a lot for it, because a car out of service for a day is something like a loss of $100,000.
Finally, and congrats to those of you who made it this far, General Clark would seem to be the guy to help Torvec get closer to actually putting Iso-Torques or CVTs into all the HumVees that are going to be revamped/upgraded over the next decade or two.
Good meeting, but a very different meeting in that excitement about pumps, diffs, etc. was secondary to the excitement about moving these things into industry in the biggest way possible as quickly as possible. Saying that, Kaplan made no promises about impending deals, only that he expected developments to continue to evolve this year and while that was progressing he would be looking for a revenue stream. He stressed making the world a better place a couple of times, but I got the impression that would come with making Torvec products a money generating part of industry around the world. Probably some other stuff, but that's it for now. EOM
Small world. On the Suby front, sort of went through the same thing with a 02 Outback. After my engine fragged itself, I see that the 02 consumer report for Subaru engines that year is a solid, black dot. Everything improved in the following years, but it would have been nice to know that. No excuse for your tech's lack of basic wrenching skills. You wonder how and why someone like that would decide to become a mechanic. Of course it is the money, but you would think they would have some touch of hot rodder in them.
I wonder what is being done to promote the Torvec CVT for real off road work. Something like the Baja race or that hill climb they do in Tenn, would be perfect for it. Not only does the Torvec CVT give trucks and regular cars better durability, but it really has advantages for the high horsepower and extreme angles that are part of racing. I really hope the new personnel have plans for moving Torvec tech into manufacturing lines or specialty racing parts ASAP. eom
It might have been mentioned, but the current issue of the Rochester Business Journal has a front page article about Torvec changes. You should be able to access on line next week. Here is the link to check with a tiny photo of the current issue.
http://tinyurl.com/2ev3pcm
Haven't posted because I'm trying to learn to listen, consider, and listen some more. Everybody from roofers to investment advisers has their pitch perfected so I'm trying to observe and tamp down panic or excitement.
Kaplan's resume is good, but I'm more impressed by his quick moves to put a better business team in place. I hope they are there to put Torvec products into O.E.M.s production lines instead of playing around with stock options. I'm cautiously optimistic that they see great rewards for finally moving some projects past the testing stage. Their experience indicates that they know how to do that and Torvec seems to be a good candidate for this team.
Lots of dead ends, reversals and incredible events over the years to get to this point, but maybe we have all the elements to get across a finish line or two. EOM
I think they did point out the difference in lap time and cornering ability between 350Zs with and without. It was a couple of years ago. Now the focus seems to be prototype testing with a few different OEMs, retail production of the Iso-Torque for Corvettes and Cameros and getting as far into GM as possible.
As far as why they don't promote this or that and how they should promote, I don't have any idea. There seems to be some ad agency work going on, but I don't know what future plans they might have. EOM
He did that already. I think that was the big factor in him getting involved. He was really excited about what this differential does to the car. I completely changes all the usual moves. On Sunday he pulled away on the first turn simply because he had more power to the track before anyone else.
I'm past trying to figure out which OEM is going to get it first. I would hope that he still has respect and influence at GM. A lot of people there are aware of the dramatic difference this makes for a high performance car like the Corvette and I guess the 500+ horsepower Cadillac. The car that really needs it more than the ones mentioned is the Camero. Pretty heavy and all the horsepower you can imagine. Will GM race it? Maybe, but I think they are going to offer some high performance model from the factory to compete with the hot Mustangs. Maybe bring back the Z28.
It's not LeMans yet, but all the things that enabled Heinricy's Corvette to smoke all the sister Corvettes prepped the same way and some with more horsepower, would provide the same advantages to any car in any road race. I think the racing community has been aware of the difference this makes, but I am not going to assume anything till I'm surprised by some announcement. Seems like it will happen when differentials start shipping, but for now I'm still getting over how much faster he was on turn 9. EOM
Well in about 2 months the new owners can buy a retail unit from Torvec and put it in there. Phoenix Racing prepares a lot of Corvettes, in fact I think every other Corvette at the race was prepped by them. This particular car is 8 years old and running with less horsepower than current Vettes. I'd bet John likes the lighter weight and the fact that this car was very good to him. For the championship race the track is not a road course so I guess they want more horsepower.
I hope the new owner spoke to Keith and they keep the Iso-Torque in the car. John will have his hands full in the Championship race and another Iso-Torque would help the odds, even with a car that might be too low on horsepower for that track. He seemed like a great guy. Not the type who needs every advantage in a race. Plus he will have a new car with more horsepower and probably a new Iso-Torque. Hope he does well. From what I saw if there are any problems it won't be from his driving skills. Forget the age, he was racing much harder than all the younger drivers and much smoother. EOM
Kind of amazing to see this combination in action. Pulled away in the first turn and simply ran much, much, stronger over the entire course. Identical Corvettes, newer Corvettes, etc. ran well, sounded smooth, but were a lot slower. He pulled around 155mph on the back curve, straight into a downhill. Wide open, much faster and deeper into every curve than anyone else in the field. You could hear him above the pack and it was actually hard to frame, pan and get him in a shot.
Missed the media and the winner's circle afterward. Before the race he broke the lap record he set yesterday and during the race he broke it again. The car is running perfect and it sure doesn't seem like it's 8 years old. The championship race track does not have the twisty turns and hills of the Glen, so he will probably need to push hard into and out of what turns there are.
Don't ask me what this means for moving anything Torvec to a broad market. All I'm saying is it was a heck of a race today. EOM
I'm pretty sure there has been an upgrade since then. At some point in the past, Keith discussed tweaks in the gear 'set', or whatever the correct term is for face angles as gears mesh. I think the Car and Driver experience gave them some valuable feedback on abuse.
I would imagine that the C5 Corvette is running with a radiator for the diff. I think the current Iso-Torque runs cooler than the Car and Driver prototype, but I don't know how much lighter, cooler and more efficient it is.
Running the incorrect lubricant wasn't the worst mistake that team made. I think they even wrote about a short in the gas tank in one of the magazine articles about their adventure. In spite of all that, they managed to make an overweight, underpowered, barely prepared car very competitive at times during the brief effort. Now let's get the ad agency working on some news about Heinricy and his secret weapon. Some news bits in the media this week and next, so local gearheads could see him in action at the Glen on July 9th, would be nice. EOM
The Car and Driver writers gave it a go with mixed results, but no one should be under the impression that they were a professional effort or even a very good privateer.
An important note in the spec sheet for this used race car is that the iso-torque differential may or may not go with the car. It is clearly stated that it is still owned by Torvec... Iso-Torque rear differential with cooling radiator and fan (Note: this diff is owned by Torvec, however, they want a race team to give them feedback on the diff. We’ll facilitate the relationship.) EOM
Nice start. 22 seconds is quite a shutout. I believe they will be racing at Watkins Glen this summer. Might be a chance to see the Iso-Torque in action against other cars with more horsepower.
Half a second ahead of the field. That's good and the hotter the better. All those other differentials are running a lot hotter on a good day. All kinds of little things can sideline a racer as the Car and Driver team proved. I'm guessing this driver and his support team are better funded, better trained and have a lot more experience than the Car and Driver group.
Well, we have the downside covered. Some of that $90 a share action would be nice. At least if that ever happens it will be based on some innovative, patented, product instead of the fictitious reports of a corrupt ratings agency.
I'll say when, rather than if, there is a breakout announcement, I hope Torvec is prepared to maximize the news cycle. If Tesla comes here or Torvec goes there, maybe somebody could drive past One Infinity Loop and say Steve Jobs waved at them. EOM
I certainly agree with you that if someone is given a large amount of stock they really ought to bring something to the company to justify that payment or gift. My point about the BODs I mentioned is that they didn't prevent disaster to the companies they were supposed to be advising, guiding or whatever. Except for Al Gore and Apple.
'What does Torvec have to show for itself over the same period?' Well not many sales, but some interesting contacts, some testing programs with major players, some prototypes requested by OEMs, the start of retail sales of product, new patents, and some dead ends. Considering everything, that seems like a lot. If the start of production on the Iso-Torque develops into any kind of volume the unacceptable stock price should change for the better and maybe all of this will be moot. As I've said I hope Torvec has to struggle with the transition of development/niche company to a bigger production company or at least one that someone really wants to buy out.
Maybe we agree more than we disagree, but until something breaks I guess we might as well have this discussion. I do appreciate staying on point instead of attacking me. Too much of that on this board over the years. EOM
I don't disagree, you might be right on. I'm just saying my experience has been that you are expecting the unusual.
I hope the new challenge to Torvec is to go nuts with PR and marketing. I hope it is happening right now.
I'm not opposed to your call for exceptional performance, I'll take competent these days, for whatever that is worth. EOM
I don't have a problem with an intense review of anyone connected to Torvec, I hope every person there is exceptional and doing the work of 10 men.
I guess this question of who is on the board and what they bring to the table, makes me wonder about other BODs. How does Torvecs' BOD compare to Kodak or GM or Bausch and Lomb? Considering where the Kodak and GM BODs took their companies, the Torvec BOD has some wiggle room. I met the B and L board and if you think anyone in that room put any pressure on Dan Gill, you are mistaken. But, I do agree they ought to contribute something. When you figure out what Al Gore has done for Apple to warrant the millions or billions he reaped from that deal, tell the world. My guess is it's something to do with greenmail and carbon credits scam. EOM
Yes, but it was really a speculative investment then. Hopefully with actual production parts starting to ship now it will be less speculation and more results.
Hindsight is a dinner companion with regret. If anyone wanted a less risky place to invest their money 10 years ago they could have bought something by Albert Paley or Drew Struzan, not Thomas Kinkade. Many actual cars would have been a good place to put some money to work, if they were bought right. But that's another conversation. EOM
LOL, now you want a 'discussion?' I guess in your mind tangents like rating the resumes of the BOD is important, but my points about where product is compared to previous years isn't. We don't have a basis for discussions.
Classy. What a guy you are. You'd lose your 'bet.' Who is selling 'laufable' t-shirts? Of course a sharp tack like yourself knew years ago the great hope would kill NASA and have us pay extra premium fees to fly Russian.
Unless you were in the meetings JG was in and knew every twist and turn of negotiations, how do you get off deciding what was misleading? You know about as much concerning Torvec discussions with OEMs as you do me. If you got in over your head attacking me with this isn't going to help, it only makes you look petty.
No, but a great demonstration of a dark streak in the world today. The smartest guys in the room had a gimmick that no one really understood, with partners who were as corrupt as they were and no one cared as long as they were on the ride up.
It is absolutely correct to question Torvec's stock price. It certainly represents a failure of something, but it isn't the only aspect of what is going on here. Until Torvec actually sold a bunch of unique metal in a box, it was a speculative investment. Perhaps the gloomy cynics will be proven right. I just think their view is edited to discount anything that is a real achievement. I choose to think those achievements will lead to better things. In this business environment literally anything is possible. IMO
I agree about the 'impending' deal announcements. Perhaps they were overly optimistic about whose ear they had in the musical chairs rotation of auto companies executives. I'm not sure it would help if everyone knew exactly what happened to delay or kill each of those announcements. Things have a way of coming back years later. Would it make you feel better if you discovered that initial agreements changed to Torvec's disadvantage? Dirty laundry of biz deals wouldn't help going forward.
I'm not sure what this board influences. I think the stock price is at least partially affected by promotion/marketing/news, as well as sales volume that is just barely starting. At least that is my vaguely informed opinion. I'm only commenting on the idea that deals should have been done during the early years when there was no actual product. As far as doing a deal more recently with say, GM, it is a huge advantage to be of interest to them now instead of one of the many companies left holding the bag under the bizarre bankruptcy 'deal' this administration threw together. A lot of suppliers took it in the gut to help the unions. IMO
False argument. Torvec is not Enron and you know it. Enron was in the same class as some hedge funds, no product, cynical and bending or breaking the law. 'Traders' were fine with all that as long as they were making money.
This constant crying about a 10 year investment is really getting old. Perhaps some investors expected a quick turnaround on some CAD drawings with NO prototypes, but Torvec did NOT start out with first generation metal devices. It took them years to get to the point where they had the money, engineers and tiny garage to convert the Isuzu truck to the first generation FTV. Add historic upheavals in the world and the automotive industry and the usual number of years for a revolutionary product to start commercial sales and the Torvec 10 year timeline is reasonable. If you are objective. If you are watching the day to day trades under .50 while thinking about your average dollar investment, then somehow posting one bitter comment after another makes sense. Not financially, because driving your stock even lower would be nuts.
After 10 years of scrambling to invent, acquire the tools and contacts to make a better device, Torvec is shipping Iso-Torques that can be installed into a new Camero in an afternoon and dramatically improve it's performance. That's important, that's worthy of praise and that is at least one thing, as well as others, that will force the stock price out of the basement. IMO
The only GM car I have driving experience with was a Saab and that was several years ago. Most comfortable seats I ever sat in and it got to 90MPH really fast and really quietly, but the worst torque steer I ever experienced. Nice, but too odd and too pricey. I guess the current Caddys work well with the Torsens that GM uses. That would be a prime price point for swapping the Torsen with a Torvec. I hope the current relationship with Torvec and Cadillac shows that comparison to decision makers at GM. Other than that the only GM cars would be Andy's Sky AFTER the Torvec replacement diff.
No, I don't think it will eliminate the torque steer since they are only addressing part of the problem. To eliminate it they would have to install a Torsen, some kind of clutch diff or a Torvec differential. IMO, EOM
History is littered with great things that could not be sold at first, like Jello or Xerox. Over the years here there have been multiple reasons inside and outside the company that made sales impossible at that time.
My hope is that SMS starts a trickle of sales and production along with that mining equipment company. Given the state of our current government and the way they seem to come up with ideas, I have no idea of what to think about the Air Force's interest in a Fire and Rescue FTV. It seems like it would really help their capabilities. They seem excited about having it. Despite all the wonderful speeches, I wonder if expanding or even supporting something the Air Force wants is a real possibility, especially when it is just another truck to many government 'overseers'. Hope I'm wrong and they order 10 today and a 100 tomorrow. EOM
General Motors has always had the capability to eliminate torque steer. The question is at what cost? The Sky/Solstice models used a lot of existing parts to come in under their budget. It says a lot about GM management that they would release one of their 'sportier' models with such a big problem. Obviously the typical buyer would test the performance limits of this type of car, but they rolled it out without a limited slip diff.
In my opinion the most compelling sales aspect of what Torvec offers is the cost savings. Less parts to make and lighter components. The performance and safety aspects are included. Getting any O.E.M. to restructure their management and manufacturing has been the ongoing problem. They would save money in the not so long run, but can Torvec convince them to do the logical thing, rather than install a more complicated, complex item like a multiclutch diff that they buy from a long time supplier? EOM
I agree, corporate image is vital. I was reacting to the claim that the inventions don't work.
Well that is pretty convincing proof, no one replied on a message board. You might be confusing hardware with sales/marketing. In fact I'd say that is definitely the case. Were you out of the room when NASA installed the Torvec IVT in the Rover? Do you think SMS is joking about ordering their highly modified and pricey Camero? You can rightly question the stock price and lack of an ongoing deal, but dymo results are repeatable, the stock Charger and Sky vs Torvec equipped versions is real. Stomp on the gas with a stock Sky and you will veer as a result of torque steer. Doesn't happen with the Torvec diff. You have plenty of company when wanting action, but suggesting that all the work paid for and supervised by the Air Force was somehow faked, is simply wrong.
None of this changes the state of things today, but get a grip. EOM
I hear you. Marketing IS a science. I know there are reasons why initially exciting projects died, but after a while you really want ongoing efforts or advancement or expanded effort. Public relations over the years has often been more adversarial than it should have been. Perhaps everyone can share the blame for that, but at this point I don't care. I only care about some of the current directions leading to something.
I think the 'new' suspension refers to the capability to use an air system to change the track contact to the ground so that only a small number of wheels and the track have contact. This enables the FTV to turn within it's length without the usual scrubbing of the full length of the tracks. Normally I guess this is not that big of a problem, but on high traction runways it might be. This is from past public info, I could be misreading info., check with HQ or research on the Torvec site to be sure.
What difference would it make if anyone tried to 'defend' Torvec? They either make something happen from the things that have been mentioned or they don't, no amount of bashing or cheering here will move that result one inch. I'd guess people are tired of the same old arguments back and forth. Everyone is hoping for some action.
If you 'knew' the end was near years ago, why are you still here? There has been plenty of bile posted over the years so more venting isn't a surprise, but what is the point? I'm sure everyone at Torvec is aware of the feelings of 10+ year investors. I'm sure anyone who wanted this to pay out long before today has been upset for a long time. So make more people miserable, that is some kind of goal, I guess. You want to know what a broker thinks of the company trading at .40 a share. That's obvious, I only care what O.E.M.s think. If that is one customizer of muscle cars and maybe a mining company, fine. Hopefully something is resolved with them this year and perhaps other things will spread positive results. In the meantime I guess we spectators settle for the meager conversations here. Personally I'm depressed enough just by the stock price, I don't need to rage about it and make myself feel worse. I prefer to keep a tiny ember glowing for a happier future.
I can't refute the bitter arguments about Torvec's failure to deliver a stock price of somewhere north of $12. Every shareholder gets that. I guess I differ on at least 2 points with this post. First, I'm actually glad the Chery 'deal' fell apart. Every thing I've read on how Chinese companies deal with western partners tells me that they would have rolled up Torvec in a variety of ways that have destroyed bigger, more established, non Chinese companies.
Yes, it appears the Army didn't work out then, but the Air Force is happening now. Considering this administration, that could be stopped dead, but the interest, contract and payments from the Air Force would have been big news on this board if anyone told you it would happen a few years ago. Imagine the press release if CXO had been a part of making that happen.
The frustration and snark attacks at any explanation for a delay of the 'deal' are understandable if you just look at the hold time. I just think even a critic has to admit that it is a long, steep, haul to go from table sketches to hardware that is built to Air Force specs, NASA specs and truck/mining/racing specs.
On the other hand, who cares? The critics aren't going to concede one point and they mock those who have any faith in the tech or apparent progress. A guy who claims to be sharply focused on the 'problem' can't bring himself to read a one page post, because he's 'bored.' I blame myself for even stopping by, but there were times when an interesting point or link would show up. I am concerned that my investment pay off, but I wonder if the constant, sharp, often personal, criticism would wear out Torvec management and have them settle for a $5 share deal. Assuming they could find one in today's world. It's so comforting to think that the world is just in another recession and that we will somehow get out of it. I think that is being willfully blind to a lot of unique current events. The big wind was right, this is depressing. Bye, EOM
It was evaporating, then they cashed out on the ICE tech. I'm actually surprised they got any money out of that deal. Then there were other projects that paid for development work and in the Air Force case, a new, improved, FTV. I'll stop before I lose the breeze, never mind, too late.
When the stock can't break .50, critics don't have to be rational, but I still see a glass more than half full.
If ever there was a time when all things Torvec could be ignored, this economic climate should be it. As things are, there is more interest involving actual testing instead of just look see rides and specific model prototypes that OEMs are paying for instead of only Torvec made prototypes in Torvec employee's cars.
Somehow, someway, this ongoing activity has to lead to something that will be news in the WSJ or the car magazines. I think. I hope. IMO EOM
Got it. There certainly have been some announcements and speculation here that were too optimistic to say the least. It would be nice if enough events occurred this year to settle the issue.
I want to make money on my investment just like everyone here, but dismissing the Torvec timeline as spam because it hasn't paid off before this is making a lot of assumptions. They didn't have a drivable FTV till 2000. To go from that first design to revisions to the Ford based one to the one the Air Force is demonstrating, in 10 years, is pretty good for a tiny company. O.E.M.s used to take at least 3 years just to create a new model which often was based on a platform they already had and many times recycling major systems for the 'new' model and that is with millions of dollars and tons of equipment. Did you ever see the original garage where the first FTV was created? They had to go outside to turn around.
Then they hired the experts who knew all about marketing to the auto industry. That experiment took a couple of years. At least the engineers were moving forward, even if the marketing wasn't. The Basket Road years were amazing for what they got done with the resources they had. Moving to the present location, setting it up with the dyno, was pretty time consuming because to do the kind of testing the O.E.M.s respect, required unusually tight specs on the dyno bed and wiring and airflows, etc. You can say these are excuses, but many others would say it's the real world.
The first workable FTV should have been put into production by one of the Japanese O.E.M.s. I'm sure most at Torvec thought that had a good shot. I think at least one Japanese or Korean company missed the boat, but I don't have to worry about market saturation, changing production lines or domestic sales craters. During the past 10 years we all know how all the O.E.M.s saw historic swings in their profits. Is it really a surprise that in a world where GM goes broke and kills half a dozen lines, no one has taken a leap on radically different technology as offered by Torvec which didn't have the reams of verifiable testing the industry expects till the last year or two?
I say anyone who thought this company would make a fortune based on CAD designs, prototypes and even workable first generation testing, was being unrealistic about how heavy manufacturing works and how complex this tech is. Just knowing what is required to do an industry spec MPG test is sobering and that is the easiest part. It is remarkable that Torvec managed to design any kind of workable engine control system. That one problem takes many times the budget of Torvec at any O.E.M. you want to pick.
Hey, I would be first to the party if Nissan had bought in big before they stopped making trucks. Wait, it's Chrysler who is having Nissan make their trucks or visa versa. Anyway they didn't and here we are with the stock flat on it's back under .50. So I guess the cynics are right, except the really hard stuff is done. The differentials are designed, tested and starting to actually go out on the road. Maybe soon the CV joints will be working underground and hopefully will start to pop up in truck drivelines somewhere. It IS tiresome waiting to cash in, but at least the FTV is demonstrating capabilities that no other company can match to people who do look for that sort of thing, instead of companies with entire divisions who fight tooth and nail to keep outside innovation from downsizing them or at least taking some of their budget.
Of course some disagree with all this, but there are some facts in there. I like the stuff because the metal works and I respect the effort, skill and talent it takes to actually make components that are better than the rest of the industry. I could attack Torvec for mistakes they have made and I have done that on this board. Count me as someone who has seen way too many management types with sparkling resumes and nothing to back them up, which is why I was very skeptical and vocal about CXO. Doesn't matter, but you wanted a reason why it hasn't taken off yet. That is one.
I hope Cadillac rolls over BMW, Audi, etc. and I hope their interest in Torvec is one of the reasons why. I hope Hyundai continues to scare Toyota and stays aggressive. If they are as smart and willing to take risks as they have been, Torvec is exactly the kind of edge they should take a hard look at. Same for all the rest of the irons. Will the Torvec team be able to light one of these candles this year? I don't know what factors may enable them to do that. I'm just glad that after all the struggle to get here, at least it seems like there is more real O.E.M. involvement than in the past. Which would be the opposite of spam. IMO, EOM