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Simple reason they spent all of their cash building the digester which they sold at a fixed price and now have no money to pay their accountants.
Maybe ihorchu has been talking about dog years so it might not be as bad
Rahm. Damn spell check
Rage extended the am contract before he left office. Got to wait a few years again
Rage extended the am contract before he left office. Got to wait a few years again
Goose Island is covered by WM. Their transfer station is on Goose Island. They have the bulk of city recycling and Chicago has the worst recycling rate in the country.
Lakshore has part of the city under a subcontract from SIMS Metal Management. SIMS has the city contract for car crushing and disposal and metal recovery.
Both WM and SIMS are political donors to some nice connected people in Chicago.
TP
Now that is a glass half full approach.
Think of it from a positive perspective. At least they are still paying their phone bill and have phone service.
Marks and two Kwaks all work for HanscomK and ECOS. ECOS is now operating back out of Hanscom's offices (which are back in Barrington). Hanscom is really paying his salary.
By the way you can find Young Kwak at the Hanscom offices. He just take phone calls that come in through the ECOS numbers. He would if you called Hanscom and asked for him.
I have been thinking about the fact that people keep mentioning that they call ECOS and leave messages(without a response) or get no answer.
You all know that the ECOS leadership are the same exact people running the Kwak trading company, Hascom K. One might think of calling the ECOS people at the Hascom K phone number which is 847.686.2041
That number is actually answered by real human beings. By the way Kwak is still running his trading business so we know he and his son are doing something.
Just a thought on a warming Friday afternoon. A good weekend to you all.
They can't initiate a buyback under the Securities Law without actually announcing the buyback publicly. If they did do an undisclosed buyback, the management and directors would find themselves in a lot of trouble with the SEC. The SEC also frowns on buybacks of companies that are not current with their financial reporting.
Yesterday's volume can be as simple as two MM's swapping positions or somebody duping their shares for a tax loss.
Yes except they sent registered for sales tax. LRS could pay use tax and hold it back from what they owe ecos
The idea that this company would 8k the sale is a bridge too far. These ecos gang doesn’t know how to comply with the securities law. The haveflaunred those rules for years
good diversion from the Cohen hearing
But they haven't reported anything and they no longer have an Illinois Sales Tax Permit. All it means is they are delinquent. The machine could be sold and nobody thought enough of the shareholders to tell them.
DS
How do we know it hasn't been paid for? The last 10Q that was filed was for September 2017 (a mere 17 months ago). That report shows the digester still in ECOS inventory. I don't see where LRS has said anything (about a sale) and clearly ECOS hasn't reported anything. It appears that ECOS hasn't reported any sales for Illinois sales tax purposes of the machine (of course that is because they let their sales tax registration lapse).
If LRS hasn't been paid the digester it would be owned by ECOS.
The harder thing is the creditors would need to secure possession and pay to remove the machine from LRS.
Most meds can't be digested due to FDA protocols. Many of the active ingredients in meds need to neutralized. The whole diversion program is designed to keep them out of the waste stream and turned over to governmental and other designated medical disposal firms.
It would be interesting if you could mix some oxy with some plantonium and then put on your pot plant. Might get better growth and a different high.
I know he is not their registered agent. When I talked to him last year he told me he has nothing to do with Siegel, Kwak, ECOS (Nevada) and LRS. He has a new venture with some people he used to work with in Colorado. You can reach him at his office and ask him. That is where I found him.
They would have a very difficult time making the reps LRS would want and delivering a merger opinion of counsel which you need in a public entity merger. If they were going private or selling assets to LRS they might be able to work around the issue
T
Doubt it. If I were Siegel and Kwaks I would just try and buy the name back. A lot cheaper than starting a fight.
Just went to the Illinois Secretary of State site. He still shows as the owner of the name
JA
I bought in back in the days of diesel emulsion technology and ecos. I view my investment as casino money and if it become something. If not it was money I was willing to gamble
I have lived through lithium batteries, diesel emulsion, chicken coops, algae and now digesters. I think this technology is good just not thee characters running ecos.
I hope this becomes something but I have seen this play out poorly with MS and Kwak on other technology plays
JA
I have never said it was a scam or it is dead. Just that it may not appear to be what others think. I have been in this stock for years. I view it as a flyer that as time passes is less likely to fly very high.
My last comment should be interpreted as actually positive. KP made a point that cash is stuck in the JV. I actually don't think the JV made much (if any) of a profit on digester 1. As a result the purchase price went from LRS to ECOS and not to the JV. ECOS having cash rather than the JV is actually positive where things stand now.
But it is supported by some facts that ECOS has already disclosed.
Sales Price of Digester $680,000
Spending on Digester through 9/30/17 $595,815 (see 10Q inventory balance)
If the digester were finished at 9/30/17, then the JV would have received $84,185 and ECOOS would have kept $595,815.
However, we know from Kwak's April 2018 pr that the machine wasn't done then and they were continuing to spend money tweaking it.
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the JV has a lot less retained funds and most of the sales price went back to ECOS to pay suppliers and possibly the HanscomK loan.
Kenny
Only the profit stays in the JV. Based on what they had spent on the machine through Q3 2017 (see inventory on the balance sheet) and the additional costs to complete since that date, my guess is that little profit was actually transferred to the JV.
not entirely accurate. LRS has the ability under the agreements to recover their expenses associated with handling the output of the digester from the LLC. Mechanically they are likely offsetting this against the LLC's share of the tipping fees.
I also think if they are following GAAP accounting, ECOS should be recovering some of their expenses against the "net profits from the digester" that they are required t pay over to the LLC. Under GAAP they should be capitalizing to inventory/./cost of goods sold some of their costs (part of their salaries and other expenses) against the cost of the digester. This would mean they should have transferred less cash (from the digester profit, if any) to the LLC form the first digester.
T
I think your thesis has one flaw. If Handley is directing Kwak to be silent he too has committed a serious infraction under the Securities Law. In such a case, there is a potential outcome where Kwak, Handley and the whole bunch could be barred from being an officer or director of a public company. I don't think LRS lawyers would ever let their client knowingly direct another company to flaunt the securities laws.
Tipping fees in Chicago run about $20-25 per ton at a landfill. That is the tipping fee ECOS would share. Essentially LRS would share the tipping fee they can avoid by diverting the waste away from the landfill (their avoided cost).
If you extrapolate it over 12 tons per day, you are talking about daily tipping fees of $240-$300 per day or between $7,200- $9,000 per month in tipping fees (based on 30 days).
That would mean that ECOS could earn between $2,880-$3,600 per month in tipping fee sharing. Not a mountain of money, but better than a poke in the eye. Last year's tipping fee would almost pay for their external accountant.
My guess is that whatever LRS paid for the machine went back to Hanscom to repay their loan. Remember they loaned money to ECOS to fund machine cost. We of course will only find out if Kwak wakes up and speaks.
True but note that the operating agreement is between ecos and bio art. LRS is a Third party beneficiary not a party. Ecos would need to enforce the agreement against the llc. As a partner of the llc LRS is exposed to its capital account. Some good lawyering by LRS
JA
Maybe Kwak took your advice and moved on. His silence is deafening.
Catholic Cemeteries always puts there excess land into some form of alternative use until they need it. They leased land adjacent to Queen of Heaven Cemetery in Hillside for use as a public golf course. Eventually they will take it back to expand the cemetery. They own a lot of land in Des Plaines and are just trying to earn an income stream until they need it.
Kart
Catholic Cemeteries only gave them a land lease. The land remains owned by Catholic Cemeteries so Patriot has no land to sell. Eventually it will be converted back to cemetery use. It has a limited use permit so not sure they can put a digester on the site. Would need to repermit.
They have never told us when acceptance was. Acceptance was based on meeting operating minimum requirements it could be later than Feb1.
I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don’t have the cash to at for the audit and haven’t called down a deep dark hole
JA
The annual allocation of profits is a partnership capital account allocation not accounting. Under GAAP the profits would be reported each quarter in each partners financials. They should have 2017 and 2018 profits and losses to report whether or not allocated to their capital account. Delay is likely because they need to pay their accountants
Actually Tonaquint hasn't accumulated anything. Their filing indicates the number of shares they can get on conversion of their debt. However, since they can't convert and flip they are just sitting on their note earning default interest. Right now they are much better being a creditor than a shareholder of ECOS.
Remember when they did the deal,
- LRS asked for certain representations from ECOS about corporate existence, qualification to do business, etc.
- ECOS gave these representations and signed the deal.
If they are not true it gives LRS a cause of action against ECOS for breach of the agreement. They have no liability.
LRS got their digester so they got what they wanted. If they want another digester they have leverage over ECOS sine ECOS would need to cure the representations that are not accurate.
I have had clients over the years that are willing to let ""little things" go at the signing of the deal since they know it gives them an upper hand later to get something else on better terms.
Two things
1) LRS got their digester so they got what they want (for now)
2) It is only a bigger issue if you want to enter into a new contract or an M&A transaction. At that point you can't make a qualified to do business representation or valid and legally organized in the State of incorporation representation.
As my dear father said all things are solvable, some with money some with a two by four.
I think they may not be in compliance with their representations in the JV agreement
- they are in default in Nevada with the Secretary of State
- they are to qualified to do business in Illinois
- they are in default of material agreements (i.e. debt agreements).
All of those are solvable with money. hey just have to do something to make that happen.
Not being dramatic. The easiest remedy is for ECOS to buy the name from him.
The issue they have is they need an opinion from a lawyer they are qualified to do business where they operate to do a merger, RM or a bank loan. No real lawyer would give that opinion today.
Kenny
This is an old legal ploy. Ecolocap can't operate in Illinois as Ecolocap since they don't own the name in Illinois. Which means they aren't qualified to do business in Illinois which is their principal market.
He hasn't taken over the Nevada company just stopped the Nevada company from being able to legally do business in Illinois. Stops them from doing a merger, borrowing money and anything else that requires a legal opinion.
Just checked Illinois records and he still owns the name as of today so it hasn't been dealt with.