Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Gun control loses ANOTHER 'ace':
in its house of cards:
So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Adieu...:
With today's reports on KRLA-AM 870 Radio that the Los Angles City Council had voted 11-3 against overturning the City Police Commission on their rejection of a second term for Gungrabber Police Chief Bernard Parks, it seems that the
Hollywood Hills are alive with the sound of celebrating gunowners. And, despite hints by Pat Morrison and the Los Angeles Times Editorial Board, Danny Bakewell (More like Half-Bakewell) and even certain confidential sources, there is no sound of echoing gunfire and civil unrest over Bernie getting "pink-slipped". In fact, Bernie seems to be reduced to employing Gloria Allred, who appears to be between NOW appearances, to help him get a little traveling cash to ease him out of Parker Center.
Now, it seems that Bernie did try to use his best powers of persuasion in a direct appeal to the City Council. Unfortunately, Bernie was so affected by "stage fright" that he was reduced to blaming a Mayor that had taken Bernie at his word and a Police Union which hardly has two nickels to rub together to pay for copies at Kinko's. The performance apparently went over like a lead balloon, and the lopsided vote effectively tells the story. For gun activists familiar with Bernie's public speaking prowess at various Jack Scott Dog and Pony Shows, this was not an unanticipated performance. Still, there are those in the community who will profess dismay over the lack of sympathy for the Lameduck Chief (This should be simply shortened to "Lamo" for the duration of his tenure, to save bandwidth). They may rant, and they may rave, but in the end a new Chief will be brought on board. Hopefully the next chief will be able to establish the proper "goal congruence" with the rank and file officers. This is because of the need to staunch the recent rise in homicides, violent crimes, and gang battles over "turf". Los Angeles City is helping drive a 12% increase in crime statewide, and thus constitutes a major challenge to Governor Davis in his re-election run. Surely Hiz Honor the Gov does not want to be challenged on the hustings over his record on crime, especially now that he is going to have to cut Public Safety Funding in the upcoming Budget Wars sequel, "Attack of the Clowns". So for the sake of Gray Davis, Mayor Hahn will "probably" ask the Police Commission to move "expeditiously" in the candidate search process.
Insiders would probably be expecting the Commission, in honoring the Mayor's request, to propose a final candidate sometime next..........year. Or at least after November, given Mayor Hahn's close relationship with the Un-Governor.
In the meantime, Angelenos will have to make do with the force structure and morale levels that exist currently in the LAPD ( And they thought that things were tough in Ramallah). Hopefully Bernie gets a decent offer to go fishing early, and that the Commission can get a good candidate post-haste. It otherwise might be a bad summer, statistically speaking, if they do not.
Concealed Weapons Bans Discriminate
Thursday, April 18, 2002
By Jeff Snyder
On April 10, an Ohio appellate court unanimously ruled that Ohio's ban on carrying concealed weapons, in effect since 1974, violated the people's right to keep and bear arms.
The appellate court also upheld a lower court's dismissal of the prosecution of a pizza deliveryman who carried a handgun in his waistband for protection while making his deliveries.
Since 1851, the Ohio Constitution has said, "the people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security." In striking down the ban, the court noted that the framers of the Ohio Constitution "put the citizens' rights up front. We believe they meant what they said."
This ruling is a victory for the citizens of Ohio.
Prior to the decision, Ohio was one of six states that have nearly complete bans on the carrying of concealed weapons for self-defense. Thirty-two states, including every state bordering Ohio, have concealed weapon licensing statutes that require the issuance of a carry permit to citizens who undergo a background check and meet certain objective criteria, including, generally, that they be at least 21, have no felony conviction and have completed a gun safety course.
Since 1987, nearly all of those states have enacted the "shall issue" licensing systems. The horrors predicted by critics — that such laws would transform our cities into "Dodge Cities," where blood would run in the streets as citizens took to settling disputes with gunfire — have not materialized. Apparently, this portrait of the ordinary citizen as one insufficiently restrained by moral and legal injunctions against murder, who has murderous impulses that he would promptly act upon if only a gun were handy, is false.
Moreover, research by Yale University economist John Lott, and publicized in his book, More Guns, Less Crime, shows that states that have enacted concealed-carry laws have experienced a notable decrease in violent crimes against persons.
Eleven states, including California and New York, still have the older, discretionary licensing statutes. They permit the chief of police or a local judge to issue carry permits to persons of "good character" who have some "good reason" or "proper cause" to carry a gun. The language of these statutes is so vague that issuance of carry permits is completely discretionary, and generally these statutes are administered as near-total bans, especially in cities and suburbs.
In New York City, for example, the people who seem most often to have both "good moral character" and "proper cause" to carry (besides those whose work requires them to carry) are celebrities, such as Howard Stern, or persons who have wealth, political influence or connections. Meanwhile, cab drivers — who are murdered or shot more frequently than police officers and far more frequently than celebrities — fail time and again to have "proper cause."
In this manner, discretionary licensing schemes reveal an ugly fact: the state that operates on the basis of such a law clearly believes that only certain of its citizens are important enough to warrant the right of self-protection; the rest can just take their chances.
Only one state, Vermont, has neither a ban nor a licensing system. Vermont's law prohibits carrying with intent to commit a crime, but does not prohibit carrying for self-defense. Since even "shall issue" licensing systems constitute a prior restraint upon our right, Vermont is the only state that respects the right to bear arms.
If you believe that it is laws that keep you safe, then you should steer clear of Vermont, because in this regard it is "lawless." Evidently, however, the tourists who flock there year after year do not perceive the great danger they face because of an absence of words in the Vermont statute books. Apparently they are sufficiently assured of their safety solely on the basis of the trustworthy character of the Vermonters that they meet.
For many years, Ohio's gun owners have unsuccessfully lobbied their representatives to repeal the concealed-carry ban and pass a "shall issue" licensing system. If Ohio state officials appeal the appellate ruling to the Ohio Supreme Court and that court strikes down the ban on carrying concealed weapons, Ohio would join Vermont as one of two states that respects the right of the people to carry weapons for their defense.
Paradoxically, the Ohio Court of Appeals decision may, therefore, finally drive the Ohio governor and legislature to enact a "shall issue" licensing scheme. It may be the only way left to address the terrible fear that Ohioans may begin exercising their rights without benefit of state supervision or approval.
Jeff Snyder is the author of the Cato Institute study, "Fighting Back: Crime, Self-Defense and the Right to Carry a Handgun," and the new book, Nation of Cowards - Essays on the Ethics of Gun Control (Accurate Press).
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,50587,00.html
Pre,
....about 230 miles from Vegas. Not sure what the schedule calls for. Having an MRI for my chronic sciatica. Has flared up and not going away. Oddly enough, my bum knee has been pretty well behaving itself for about 10 months.
If it ain't one thing it's another!
Matey
Got home last evening...
and found the box of video tapes my brother sent me. He had taken the 8mm movies my Mother and Dad had taken from 1954 till the late 60's and had them transferred to VHS. There are about 16 hours worth of those old 3-minute, 50-foot movies that cover our family from the time I was about 5 till I left home.
It was with mixed emotions that I watched the first tape last night. My folks, my brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, pets, many now gone, came back to life for a little while. Movies of my Dad ten years younger than I am now, my brother next to me in age, now gone and my Mom, all for just a little while, smiling waving, clowning, living for the camera.
It brought tears to my eyes and a lump in my throat. I will transfer them to DVD and treasure them for the rest of my life.
Matey
Yesterday's day trip!
Had a great time up on the Mogollon Rim (pronounced muggy-own) yesterday. The area is the Southern most border of the Colorado Plateau. Huge Ponderosa pine, aspen and oak forests dotted with mountain lakes. Big winds picked up and watched a dust storm come up from Phoenix. Lot's of old west history along that route created by Col. Crook in the late 1800's. All unpaved and some rough but 2 wheel drive pick-ups or 'rental' cars can drive it in dry weather.
Sadly, picked up a plastic bag worth of trash thrown out by people who think it is someone else’s job to clean up after them.
Matey
CRPA CALLS FOR 25¢ PER ROUND AMMUNITION TAX CREDIT
RESPONDS TO GUN BAN LOBBY'S 5¢ / ROUND TAX PROPOSAL
The California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA) today called for a tax
credit for California gun owners. The tax credit would reimburse gun owners
for the social value of firearm ownership, which causes dramatic reductions
in, and serves as a tremendous deterrent to, crime and violence. No less
than 16 separate studies confirm that firearms are used five times more often
to thwart crime than to commit one. The studies found that on average,
firearms are used to defend lives two million times per year – usually
without a shot being fired.
The FBI has confirmed that over 99% of firearms in the United States are
never misused in crime. But California Senator Don Perata (D) CCW holder, has called for a
tax of five cents per round of ammunition to offset the cost of gun violence.
He plans a press conference today to announce his tax scheme. It may have
already been modified in response to nationwide ridicule of his original
proposal. Regardless, any tax is elitist and discriminatory, and would be
borne disproportionately by competitive target shooters and by the poor, who
can least afford it, but who are most often victimized by violent crime – and
who most need a gun to deter criminals and to defend themselves and their
families.
"CRPA believes this proposal is ridiculous. But if Boy Scouts earning a
shooting merit badge should pay a tax for the actions of a gang banger
shooting a liquor store clerk, then why shouldn't law abiding gun owners get
a tax credit for the tremendous public benefit their firearms provide?" asked
Chuck Michel, CRPA's attorney. "That tax credit should be five times the
amount of the gun ban lobby's tax proposal, since the savings from crimes
thwarted by firearms are at least five time greater than the cost of the
misuse of firearms."
Senator Perata knows from working closely with the gun ban lobby that the
power to tax is the power to destroy. In the past, Perata has pushed other
efforts to eliminate the right to choose to own a gun. In 1999, he authored a
bill that turned Olympic target pistols into "assault weapons" and turned
junior Olympic competitors into felons. When this was brought to his
attention, the San Diego Union Tribune reported his unsympathetic response:
"If that's what they want to do, they should all move to Texas." Red faced
legislators fixed the problem the next year, with no help from Perata.
Perata's hypocracy is also illustrated by the fact that he holds a
practically impossible to get license to carry a concealed handgun, but did
not demonstrate the "good cause" that others are required to document before
being granted such a license. (See www.nrawinningteam.com/calnra/perata).
Ironically, the ineffectiveness of these types of proposals is well
illustrated by the recent experiences of the City of Oakland, Perata's home
town. For years, the Oakland city council passed every ill-conceived gun
control scheme that was suggested. In fact, Oakland taxed ammunition sales so
heavily that gun dealers in the city went out of business. Oakland even sued
the gun industry, in a frivolous attempt to assign the blame for its violence
problems to one of the most heavily regulated businesses in the state. These
tried-and-failed schemes did not reduce crime or gun accidents. Oakland's
murder rate remained inexcusably high. Finally, as reported by the Associated
Press and San Francisco Chronicle on August 28, 2001, Oakland city officials
turned to none other than the CRPA and the NRA for help, seeking expertise
and funding to advertise the city's commitment to enforce already tough
existing state and federal laws against violent felons and emulate the
success of other jurisdictions in reducing violence.
# # #
Pre,
Glad you had a good time up there ... or DOWN there for you.
Matey
Thanks trky...
Had a login long ago but it kind of got quiet here.
I guess RB has gone to great lengths to grow IHUB!
Matey
!0-4 Pre.
Thought maybe you and the Missus might be on a world tour somewhere.
Matey
Alright NYC!
"Honey' got love number two coming in August. "
Congrats to both of you.
Let me know when you do escape occupied Kalifornia to the Free Territory. We'll have to get together.
Matey
Hey! My old login and password works!
Howya doin' NYC? Haven't talked to you in ages. How's the Mrs. and that boy? Going out on dates yet?
You ever come to AZ to visit you parents? I'm only an hour away from the Phoenix area.
Well, just stretching my legs!
Matey
RB-DOA, Viv.
Seems to be working now. Posts show up on the list again.
matey
Viv,
one of the primary reasons I didn't pick Tucson or Phoenix, although my job took me to Death Valley, large parts of the Mojave Desert and to Palm Springs, Indio, Blythe and other very hot, very dry places. I handle heat and dry very well but I don't like for it. I DON'T handle heat and high humidity at all!
Viv,
Been there and done that with Mrs. Matey. Was a cyst.
We're with you.
Matey
Ola, winters are mild...
Several snows that stay for a couple days but I don't think there are any hard freezes. The ground here is decomposed granite and not-so-decomposed granite. You'd need topsoil to beable to plant a garden. Maybe someday in the future.
Phoenix can run 110 and spike to 120 in July and August. They also get gully-washer rains from the monsoons. I thing it gets showers here too but the annual rainfall is about 18" so it can't rain too much.
Thanks, getting there but the garage and the cabinets I brought are going to take some time and maybe some help. The cabinets are large, heavy and awkward to grab.
Matey
Pre.....
I am the "PREMIER" coffee maker! I buy Columbian Supremo beans and keep them refrigerated. I grind only what I use, heat the water in a porcelain tea pot and make the coffe in a glass Milita drip maker. Drink ONLY from porcelain mugs! I make it .... HEARTY ... yeah, that's the word...hearty. NEVER let it sit on heat for very long and scorch. Coffee should taste like coffee smells in my opinion and NEVER be left to cook down into some type af pavement topper.
Was told that JaBLuM (Jamacan Blue Mountain) was THE coffee I needed to try. A couple years ago we did a cruise to the Bahamas and when we stopped in Nassau, I looked for and found some. 1 lb of beans was 'only' $34!!! I thought that was a bit high but before we left, I found 1/2 lb of ground for $17 and bought it. All I thought about was having the 'best coffee' in the world when we got back to my nephew's place. What a disappointment! I kept making each pot stronger and stronger, but it was still bland. Now I've been told Rhodesian is THE best. Yeah, right. Actually, the best tasting for my likes is Kona. Had some when we went to Hawaii to visit Corporal Matey Jr. USMC in '90 or '91. For a short while, COSTCO carried a Kona bean coffee but stopped carrying it, so it's Columbian for me!
Have a cup.
Matey
Not yet, NYC.....
Busy putting stuff away, throwing stuff away I didn't throw away when I packed it, lining up vast outpouring of fixed income for fencing and landscaping and taking Red Dog for long walks in the rolling hills. Lots of pine and scrub, scrub oak and mesquite. I did notice my uncanny ability to live near an airport and there are lots of planes because I live next door to Embry-Riddle (sp?) Aviation College and they must fly over it a lot. Don't mind, though, I love airplanes and flying.
Beautiful skys and sunsets, perfect temperatures in the low and middle 80's during the day and high 40's-low 50's at night.(Phoenix has been flirting with 110) Learned that the Veterens Hosptial just down Hwy 89 was the former Fort Whipple during the 1860's and was where Geronimo was brought after his capture. Many of these forts like Camp Verde and Fort Apache are still in existance and not far away. Been to Camp Verde, it's east of I-17.
Virgil Earp was a town deputy and owned a lumber mill just west of town near Thumb Butte. Doc Holliday and 'Big Nose' Kate took up housekeeping near Whiskey Row and he worked the gaming tables at such places as the Palace. You, any of you, show up in town, and I'll buy you a beer and we'll sit at the very same bar (saved by the patrons when the whole block burned down in 1900) that Doc, Virg and Morg tossed down a few at. Wyatt drank coffee. Then Wyatt came from Dodge City to pick up Virg and wife and head for their 'fortune' in Tombstone. 'Big Nose' Kate lived until the 1940's and spent her final years at the Arizona Pioneer Home that is situated high on a hill overlooking downtown. She's buried at the Pioneer Cemetary a couple miles away but you gotta know her real name.
This place is alive with the 'old west' and I love it!
Matey
Courtesy of HCI
Send FREE FAXES on ANY subject to any U.S. Senators and Congressional
Representative, using HCI's automated faxing system.
Enter a zip code. Then modify the subject and body of the message
and click the Fax radio buttons and fax away!
http://www.capwiz.com/guncontrol/mail/compose/
On another part of the HCI website,
http://www.handgunsafetylicense.org/act/index.html ,
you can send messages to much of your
major local media, using the same technique.
To identify your state and federal politicians
http://capwiz.com/guncontrol/home/
Patience Pre.....
it's camp. Nothing happens fast. No schedules, no clocks. I need a break here from all that movin' stuff! A week now and the inside is shaping up. Need a hand in the garage as my cabinets are just too large to manhandle. Got fencing scheduled and two landscapers bidding for the last of my money! I'm not equipped to work this ground. I put my mailbox up and it took half a day of soaking and scraping away the wet stuff enough to get the post in far enough for some Quickcrete to hold it! MAN! And I thought adobe in CA was hard.
(sipping on a cup of mornin' java)Matey
Thanks William,
I sure like it so far.
Matey
See, it never was about reducing crime...
or saving lives...
" I know the criminals get guns on the streets and there's not much you
can about the nuts out here who get guns, but we have to do something
for the rest of us." Marilyn Washington MMM organizer
..it is and always has been about controlling the rest of us.
Matey
Thanks Pre.
Up to HERE in moving!
Matey
Actually NYC it's almost...
high chapparell. Gets about the same percipitation as Riverside(dry) but big pines at the south end of town and I have some smaller ones on my property. Can see the mountains at Flagstaff EVERY day, not just when the conditions are right. I specifically looked for grafitti in the communities we considerd. So far, so good here. Hope the new never wears off.
I AM part real Indian on my Dad's side!
Matey
Red Dog ain't no dingo!
She's a Scoobie Doo!
matey
We interupt this thread for this important.....
message.............
Matey has re-established in the Free Territory of Arizona! They have an organization in town called 'Save the Bill of Rights'!!
I think I'm gonna like this place!
UpToHereInStuffMate
We interupt this thread for this important.....
message.............
Matey has re-established in the Free Territory of Arizona! They have an organization in town called 'Save the Bill of Rights'!!
I think I'm gonna like this place!
UpToHereInStuffMate
Good Luck Onebgg.......
I'LL need it!!!!
Matey
Sacramento UPDATE!!!!!
Another report from Paul:
At this moment, they do NOT have the votes to pass the bill! The pressure from the calls is large and working, but must be sustained.
They have "referred the bill over", meaning another attempt to pass it will likely happen later today. KEEP THE CALLS COMING!
A not-so-obvious talking point: the computer systems that do the background
check in this process can ONLY be operated by genuine peace officers, and
NOT PD clerical staff of any sort! The systems are highly
confidential...bribery access to them is a potentially serious problem that
can ONLY be trusted to trained, screened full-tilt cops.
That's why there's all these references to "taking cops off the street" for
this crap - it's not hyperbole, it's 100% genuine.
From battlefield CA....
We have good, steady flow of calls into EVERY legislator's office. Ed
Worley is receiving comments regarding them whenever he walks into a
legislator's office.
One specific comment - "...At least your people know what the bills that
they call about actually DO...". Great job, MC'ers!
Ed and Paul ask that we try to crank up the heat today, as AB 35 goes into
the Senate Appropriations Committee. Paul says we have actually an
opportunity to stop the bill in this committee, and our continued pressure
is vital (and greatly appreciated).
For info on who and where to call:
http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/legs.shtml
http://NRAMembersCouncils.com/caspecial/ab35sb52p2.shtml
Matey
In our defense.....
50th: Rank of California amoung U.S. states in per capita energy use, based on Energy Information Administration data.
6,396: number of kilowatt-hours each Californian uses in an average year.
11,867: number of kilowatt-hours other Americans use in an average year.
After Californians cut back 20 percent, we should be ranked somewhere between Tibet and Hatii per capita consumption.
--------------------------
In the opinion page this morning.
Matey
Battlefield CA! NRA ALERT! ALERT!
If the Second is to survive, we gun owners CANNOT write of the nation's most populace state with the
most electoral votes. Make some calls, even if you live elsewhere.
CA legislature info:
http://www.sen.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp
http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/defaulttext.asp
http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset7text.htm
Thanks,
Matey
CIRCULATE, POST & CROSS-POST
(everything below this line)
As you can see in the intercepted messages, at the bottom of this page, the antis are going to Sacramento
(on Tuesday at 1:00
P.M.) to try to influence the passage of more gun-control, especially SB-52/AB-35. I think we should
make it difficult for
them to get their points across.
PLEASE PARTICIPATE IN THE "VIRTUAL-RALLY" and stop the antis from being the only voices
heard in the Capitol on
Tuesday.
SB-52 is scheduled to be heard in Senate Public Safety Committee on Tuesday and the "antis" are trying
to build momentum
by appearing in support of this terrible legislation.
Since most Second Amendment supporters are very responsible people and have jobs and families, going
to the State
Capitol, on a weekday, is rather difficult for them to do. SOOOOO, we are going to have a
"Virtual-Rally" instead.
HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN DO:
--- Cross post this message EVERYWHERE.
--- From 1:00 P.M. until 5:00 P.M. on Tuesday, April 17th, go to:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml and
CALL, FAX, & E-MAIL every member of the legislature that you are able to. Urge them to oppose more
gun control
legislation.
Remember, if the legislative staff is busy reading your messages and answering your calls, they won't
have much time for
outside "visitors" such as the WAGV & CSGV folks (see below).
Response from the NRA magazine insert has been fantastic! (Go to:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/caspecial/ab35sb52.shtml) Senator Jack Scott, the author of SB-52
(licensing and
registration) has sent out an apology to the legislature because of all of the call that have been coming in.
KEEP UP THE
GOOD WORK! ! !
Never Quit, Never Give Up!
H. Paul Payne
NRA Grassroots Liaison
NRAUSMC@earthlink.net
(909)683-4NRA Office
(909)779-0740 Fax
Kinda quiet, ain't it?
SoloMate
NYC,
In Kalifornia, it is illegal to 'give' 'will' or by any other means ANY firearm to your son without a legal transfer via a FFL dealer with all forms and fees paid. If the elder is deceased, I don't know how that transfer can be legally done.
Doncha just love the anti-gun Kalifornia government??
Matey
NYC,
That means they know where to come and get that one!
You were one of maybe 7000 who registered theirs. That only left about 243,000 who told the state to kiss their collective asses. I think there might be a place in AZ where you can 'store' your 'black' ugly gun when the liberals decide to collect them. My rates are reasonable.
Matey
Saw that Paule....
while I was there.
Don't know when I'll get a chance to look for any info for you, I'm up to HERE with stuff to do before and after our move around the first. I'd try the state of AZ web page and search from there. I am trying to have an IP when we move in, so if I can find out anything, I'll let you know.
Matey
Matey is NYC, Judd, Ola, Viv, The Swamp.....
APRIL FOOLS!
OnlyMate
Swamp,
Have to agree with Colt somewhat..
although I'm against 'board police', I'm also against those who insist on forcing the issue. I can joke and laugh with the best of them. The First Amendment stops at the line of personal infringment, whether it be falsehoods posted on someone or attempting to force one's beliefs on others. We all have the right to state OUR beliefs and position and shouldn't be chastized for it. Healthy debate, fine but personal attacks, nope. Can't think of a quicker way to lose our rights than to abuse them, and I really hate losing anymore rights.
I can post with anyone and do as long as it's not insulting. When the stuff starts flying, I simply ignore. If a falsehood is fabricated, I ask for a reputable source from the poster and when one isn't forth coming, I trust my fellow board members to be able to discern fact from fiction. The case of McDuck is a perfect example. He repeated information about a program he saw, and the 'moral police' bashed him right into cyber space. He wasn't attacking anyone personally, at least not until he was publically gutted. He was all to eager to engage 'them' in a pissin' match and lost and those who befriended him were also harrassed. If someone wishes to be judgemental, so be it, but it isn't me who loses. We all started out as cyber friends, I hate to see that change.
Don't be scared off, John Coffy. Most aren't 'bad mens'.
Matey
Ain't so 'new and improved' anymore...
I don't need any of this crap.
AZ lookin' good!
Matey
Judd,
"my point was that some write vile hateful posts to protest vile hateful posts. huh?? "
Nope!
Matey
Correct me if I'm wrong...
but Judd, weren't you one of the founders of the 'reborn' RB Swamp after it had digressed into a silent cesspool after the original founder drove everyone off? Weren't you one who had helped set up 'camp rules' over there?
Always considered you a man of honor and of his word but I cannot see how you could enjoy the vileness and hate generated by Ola or whoever. When Ola is civil, I have had enjoyable exchanges with him but when personal insults and verbal attacks become part of the 'fun' you can count me out. I just don't see the enjoyment of 'chain-pulling' especially when it gets so personal.
Matey