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Right you are, Cotton. I thought there was just simple interest payments. I went back and checked the prospectus and right you are. The interest compounds on any deferred payment.
Here’s the info right from the issuing document:
Any deferred distributions will accumulate additional amounts due at an annual rate of 6.24% compounded quarterly
The compounding sure can make a difference over these 14 years too.
Thank you for your excellent research. Cheers
Incoming, there’ll be a few opportunities to consider it appears.
Morgan Stanley: As The Recession Arrives, Will We See A Surge In Corporate Defaults
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/morgan-stanley-recession-arrives-will-we-see-surge-corporate-defaults
Yes, it appears so. Even the history of it appears gone. I don’t know what to make of it other than it wasn’t very active lately. I wonder if the Italian version is still active?
Best of health to all of you, cheers
I’ll bet Jersey is watching, just busy with other things right now.
https://apple.news/AXWRcdSKiTTabx6by2AUW5A
One of my reasons for investing was from a very experienced private equity business advisor I met over 15 years ago. I was looking to buy a business and he said “ Buy the biggest business you can”. “ The reasoning was there are more options to find value and grow any business based on the number of asset options it provides.”
Lehman as the largest BK ever certainly provided asset options to uncover. The CT’s are the perfect vehicle as they also include the massive loss carry forward. I’d like to see more infrastructure of Lehman, but maybe there all in Barclays and would be cut out for the re-organized business.
I’m looking forward to this wrapping up.
Joe, to our resident troll, I have less that 1% in this with a huge upside potential. Why would I ever sell now? I don’t regret a single purchase. It’s even easier to hold with it’s current value reduction due to lack of trading. It could go away now and I’d never feel it in my portfolio, that is BTW at an all time high.
Maybe you’d like to compare investment returns over the last 2 years since the Cat have not been trading??
Pouring a bourbon, neat, toasting to all of you for your wonderful contributions, thank you. Cheers
Diluted into marginal value as the company builds capital to restart the business.
Maybe try to find an Italian brokerage? Use the chat board that’s following Lehman there? Or SAXO bank, Denmark might carry them, they have an international brokerage group.
Had they’d responded to any of your inquiries previously Swiss?
Poured a little HH cocktail tonight, saying cheers to Jimmy.
Along with a thank you to all of you and your contributions.
Cheers
Let’s be done with this
Cheese,
I’ll take a try at this, hopefully I understand your question. The Ct’s were placed in a class of securities that didn’t have all the registration filings up to date by SEC standards. There was a whole lot of various companies (approximately 300 I believe). We all received notifications via our brokers ( me both Fidelity and TD Ameritrade). That at a certain future date we would no longer be allowed to bid on these shares. My estimation is that none of the 300 listings were eliminated just held in suspense for retail investors until anyone of them updated their filings. None were out right canceled just ruled not approved for retail. That leaves the insiders and institutions pretty free to lower the bid and buy any shares someone might dump. This is only in the USA market. Argus has been able to buy some on the Canadian market as a citizen there.
Please feel free to offer any corrections.
Happy new year to you all. I’ve a special thank you to so many of you for your wonderful research, opinions and dialogue. It’s been insightful and thoughtful.
Let’s wrap this up for all of you in 22’
Cheers
Okay, anybody else wonder at the coincidence that we haven’t seen Joe much since the shares were delisted in the U.S.? Since we can’t buy, but as Argus has kept us informed somebody still is, Joe’s gone. What happen to him with all us wayward souls still waiting to be saved, coincidence?
Jersey is that like the guy that when they find the missing casino funds in his car’s trunk he says it’s just a coincidence?
Happy New Year to you all. I’ll be raising a toast and know above he’s having a Sinatra.
Cheers to a resolution in 2022.
Merry Christmas to all. I hope you have a wonderful day. Cheers
Tip of the cap to your father. My uncle had just disembarked from the USS Maryland and was on the wharf docks when the Planes started in. He never returned to Hawaii after the war. He was a small town farm boy from Milbank, SD.
You’ve done well with Hut. TY for mentioning it.
Great find Argus. TY
VBW, we’re fighting with you Jersey.
Other than the postings of court documents there was no real new information. There’s more research and analysis done here so I’ll bet most people still interested in this security have gravitated here.
There already is a Google board. Camero, knows it the best. I sure may be interesting to read what they are thinking.
Closing off the buying sure sets up the CT’s for insiders and big trading houses to make the final killing. I guess any cold water that can/has been thrown on us to sell may be coming to an end.
I’m happy with my position, Let’s Roll!
Well with the restrictive buying we’ll have I expect that the price will languish at .01-.02. Never fear Joe my position ( and I’ll wager all of ours) is such a small % of my portfolio that it never mattered anyway. Now we will sit and await the final outcome. The CT’s will either puff away in the wind or be a wonderful surprise of value. I tend to believe as Too does, we’ll see a recap due to the loss carry forward value. It’s sure been a heck of a ride. Cheers
Quick back of an envelope calculation of interest.
They all offer various rates but average of the four is near 6.2% a year.
BK in 2008 would be 13 years.
$25 par x .062 = $1.55 interest income a year potential.
13 ( years) x 1.55 = $20.15 total interest.
The interest isn’t compounding so this number is within fractions of a dollar per year what the income would be.
Par $25 + $20.15 interest = $45.15.
Git’er done.
I’m going to have a Sinatra. Cheers
Argus, I want to thank you for your Hut8 comment a number of months ago. The research I’ve done from your mention it’s been a good company and I appreciate you bringing it up. I became more serious about educating myself on cryptocurrency from your comment as well, thank you. It’s helped a bit with the sting of FNMA and that continuing debacle.
Interesting, thanks Argus. Hmm, Legg Mason Funds, division of Franklin Templeton Funds. Not exactly pikers. I guess I’m pretty comfortable having a holding that they hold as well. Last 12 months they had a decent return vs other similar benchmarks so they must know what they’re doing.
Let’s get this wrapped up this year. Full Monty!
I submitted my information today for the Class Action. Thank you to the blokes initiating it and to the contact information posted here. Get’r done! Cheers
Yep OK, I considered that as well. That would put us around $20.00. That’s my number as the minimum.
Happy Father’s Day to all the dads. Cheers
Yes I got it as well in my TDA account. I received nothing in Fidelity account.
Wonderful, happy for her and both of you. May she have a long and prosperous retirement. Cheers
Yes, that was my other consideration too. Did the creditors have such a hold on Lehman and the POR to say basically we know there in value in the NOLs and we want that value too in some sort of reserved claim. That term fully utilized is concerning.
If one was to look at this BK as Lehman getting out too far over their skis and Goldman folks (read includes treasury Goldman alumni) saw this as a way to stamp and ground out to certain death a big competitor. Well then fully utilized NOL would certainly be something a group of smart financial engineers wouldn’t let slip by and therefore resurrect Lehman.
I’m still invested, it’s a small, no very small piece. But if it would be nice $ to have Lehman rise Phoenix like.
What’s your opinion on the term fully utilized TooGood or anyone one else?
Cheers and RIP with a Sinatra Jimmy.
TY Too, in layman’s terms it appears the Debtor, Lehman, did the appropriate filings to preserve the NOLs. They discussed this process with the creditors at the time and gained their approval to file for use of the NOL in the future for the benefit of the remaining company “ debtor”. There are restrictions that the company remain in a pre-described corporate entity to use the NOL.
In effect, the NOL are available to the debtor if it emerges from Chapter 11 in a pre set organization entity.
Am I deciphering the legalese correctly?
Jimmy was always an enjoyable read on his posts. I especially liked his have a couple Sinatras. Very sorry and sad this didn’t complete before he passed.
I hope he’s having a couple Sinatras while he watches this. Cheers
I hope you all had an enjoyable weekend and thank you Jersey for the Easter Day wishes.
Let’s get’er done.
Cheers
Pounding on the dollar as a reserve currency. We’re printing like drunken sailor. Cryptos are a better money exchange than gold. That’s as long as blockchain isn’t compromised.
Thanks Argus. I’ve owned Riot for a while. I’ve done a fair amount of researching Cryptos. Very interesting value proposition. I liked what I’ve read about HUTMF so far.
Too, I have a question about the CT’s. Why would someone invest in them at the original offering? What was the motivation? They’re funding a BK in what seems historically you’d only get 20-50% back of your original investment. While the interest accrues there is high probability it won’t be paid or is at least uncertain. The funders must have something that they are getting. The CT’s raised a lot of money and it wasn’t dumb money. Why would someone fund a BK? I feel fine buying it in the aftermarket but I’m not understanding who would have bought at the $25/sh offering.
Thank you
Merry Christmas to you all. I expect this case to complete and making it a Happy New Year for us all. Thank you to all the contributions throughout the year. Cheers
RIP and honors to your father Jersey. My uncle had just gone ashore off the USS Maryland walking on the dock when the planes came. What a sucker punch they threw at our boys.
Happy Thanksgiving and thank you all for sharing your thoughts and research with us all.
VBW, cheers
I’ve sold very little, but some just to test the marketability. They sell much quicker than you can buy them.
I came here via some of the posters on FNMA sites. Nice to think that trade may finally be finalizing too.
Cheers to all, be safe and enjoy your days.
Selling shares go almost immediately. There’s buyers out there but they sure do a good job walking the price down on low volume.
Thanks Swiss, for searching. I looked as well about two years ago and I could find very little current activity or corporate presence.
Here’s a head scratching blast from the past. Do any of you remember that a former Lehman executive rejoined Lehman UK? He was in charge of Europe and Africa for business development of some type. It was a news wire worthy hire. He had left in 2008 and came back around 2014. I took it as good news. We had his name, I wonder if he’s still with them. I don’t see any news activity about Lehman so I do wonder if there’s still an organization.
Cheers to all and stay cool.