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I did hear the Doctrine of Equivalents bit. I am hoping your point about the same court being favorable on that issue to patentees will carry through to us here.
Thank you Doc for making the effort to be there and give us a thorough account of today's proceedings. I would have liked to have been there. You wrote that the hearing was lightly attended so likely no other shareholders present? I surmise that also means that Daic was not in attendance? I see that you wrote the Receiver had to go in a hurry but did he give you anything at all?
After reading your notes and listening to the arguments I am also struggling to get a read on how this will turn out. At first blush the opposing attorney sounded much smoother and experienced than Juren. I was afraid that would be the case going in. But listening to the substance of what was said Juren made pertinent points while opposing counsel continued to throw out the same tired rhetoric. I just do not know if Juren was able to communicate his points eloquently and effectively enough. I hope that Matthews is correct that O'Malley "got it" and that he can help convince the others on our behalf. Moore is a difficult read also. Early on it sounded as if she was certainly against us but as it continued it seemed to even out some. Let us hope that we do not have our answer for at least several days because a quick decision will certainly go against us. If we are to win then I think they will need some time to craft the ruling.
Yes indeed. Monday's date is a bit symbolic to me. Let's hope that on Monday we finally emerge from this "Groundhog Day" type limbo that shareholders have had to suffer for far too long. Good luck to the longs!
I agree. I see that report as just a starting point. It has been another two years of infringement beyond where that assessment left off. The meter has continued to run. And then there's the issue of treble damages for the willful nature of infringement. By very basic extrapolation that could put a possible award over a billion dollars. We just need this to get in front of a jury.
High Rider's $2 per share figure may also factor in the takes by Daic, receiver, attorneys and creditors that will come off the top before shareholders see our's. But I think we could still see more if this gets in front of a jury.
I found it. It is the report from damages expert Robert Bailes that estimated preliminary damages related to Hotspot through November 2011 to be between $186 million and $372 million. It is Exhibit 1 in the linked filing. Post #58805 by bacatcha.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=80822282
If this is not remanded back to the district court for trial, it would be a crime. T-mobile has committed the grandest of larceny. Let justice be done!
Great info. Thank you.
Excellent point. Does anyone have the link to the patent valuation that came out during proceedings in 2012? I would be interested in revisiting it. I seem to recall that containing a hefty tab on what T-Mobile had already reaped from the patent. And that meter has continued to run for another year and a half. I wonder what it would read now?
Are those linked from the court's website? I think those would be an interesting listen. Thanks for the summary of what to expect. I am feeling more optimistic that we will get a fair shake from this panel.
I am certainly looking forward to hearing those proceedings. 10 and a half more days until we get this before the appeals panel, but who's counting?
If I had a second sticky at my disposal then I would honor your request. But i think the link to the reply brief outranks the countdown clock. If another Mod would like to help you out that would be nice. You are correct, the day after the Super Bowl it is the shareholders' Super Bowl.
This does make me feel better about our chances.
I was just thinking that since he argued the claims construction and that turned out poorly for our side that continuing that strategy is likely not a positive turn. If he could not convince the first judge and successfully counteract T-Mobile's subterfuge, then what makes us think this round will necessarily be different? But all we can do here is guess.
As you point out maybe it had more to do with the judge than the skill of our attorney. That is another viewpoint and I hope it is correct. We have a new panel of judges, new briefs and a new format to present our side. I think they started well on the briefs. I hope it continues. Not trying to be negative but we have always seemed to have the rug pulled out from under us and want to keep my hopes in check. Good luck to us all.
Thanks but that is not exactly the kind of reassurance I was hoping to read.
Profiles on both attorneys from their own firms' sites:
Josh Krevitt: http://www.gibsondunn.com/lawyers/jkrevitt
Matthew Juren: http://www.matthewsfirm.com/default.aspx/MenuItemID/152/MenuGroup/_Home.htm
Krevitt is a partner in his firm, very experienced and decorated as an attorney. Juren is decidedly younger and his profile mentions his concentrations in law school and his clerkship with little about what he has done since he joined the firm as an associate, just areas of practice. I do not want to jump to conclusions but it looks like T-Mobile has a seasoned high powered attorney while Calypso has a young relatively inexperienced lawyer. I hope this is not just the firm sending a new lawyer out to cut his teeth on our case. I know it is a team effort as strategy goes and I felt the Calypso reply brief was quite strong so I won't go off the deep end yet. But this does give me pause for concern. Perhaps Juren is a talented litigator and has been fully immersed in the details of the case so that he is the best choice to make the arguments. I do hope so.
I see times for argument and rebuttal on both sides. For T-Mobile's it says it is undecided. They do just get one uninterrupted 15 minute block right? Calypso is up first and last right?
Does anyone happen to know anything about the abilities of either arguing attorney?
I agree. I think Calypso's attorneys have a grasp of the issues, they just need to keep the arguments focused on the real issues and not let T-Mobile divert them off into half truths and misinformation. I hope Calypso will also have a technical expert present to make sure things stay on track. This could get very interesting.
Hear hear! 33 days to oral arguments before the three judge panel. Our day is coming.
This is encouraging. Thank you for posting. Happy Holidays and Merry Xmas to all.
I tend to be skeptical that the government will let this go through. Similar to AT&T's failed bid to buy T--Mobile, I think it ultimately fails so no real impact on Calypso. If someone sees differences in this bid and reasons why they think it will go through I would be interested in hearing.
Agree with assessment by sirhaggus all around. We need to win the next round to stay in the game but could lose out at any number of places along the way. Likely will be years for us to collect if we win based on appeals process. IMO, the only way we see a payoff sooner is through a settlement or buyout which is very unlikely to me. So now we wait. I think we are on the "right" side. Now we just have to hope that justice is done. It just won't come quickly or easily. Good luck to us all.
Jurors are often sympathetic to the "little guy" who gets bullied in patent cases. Look at the jury's reaction to this one and imagine what jurors may think when they hear about T-Mobile's interactions with Calypso. The Court needs to give Calypso a fair jury trial.
http://www.cultofmac.com/255799/why-is-apple-the-bad-guy-for-defeating-this-patent-troll/
According to the flow chart, the latest filing was In Section 2, Appellant's Reply Brief on November 7? If I read correctly, that means a 14 day timeframe to the next action which would have been today?
I guess the time frames are approximate which is fine. What happens next? Waiting to see if supplemental briefs happen? Moving on to motions?
Where do we stand in the grand scheme of things?
More astute observations High Rider. Let us hope that this is not lost on the court. Good luck to us all.
As someone else pointed out the stock is no longer trading. If I recall correctly I think it last traded at .018 for whatever that is worth. Let us all hope the value will far exceed that someday before too much longer.
Either:
1. You are a member of the legal team.
2. The legal team is watching this forum closely.
3. Great minds just happen to think alike.
You did call out the pertinent points. If posters on our forum (wise posters but nonetheless) can see this so clearly, the court must as well, right? Once again, let us hope for the best.
Thank you for posting bacatcha. You do a great service to this community.
The brief is simple and elegant. Concise and to the point. I think it is quite well written. I am hopeful that we will receive a fair hearing to set this right but still worry about the odds against upsetting the apple cart of the industry. Let us all hope for the best.
I can understand some frustration on that point. I do not favor removing messages unless it is an egregious violation. I favor allowing all to express their views. There is so little traffic on this forum now anyway that no post is likely to be lost by excessive posts scrolling off the first page. Even if I strongly disagree with some views that are posted I think discussion is healthy. I also think we are all ultimately in this together now too, like it or not. Good luck to us all.
So the next filing is due in a week, correct? What do we think is the timetable for a decision or next action in this case?
Let's hope that the judges do actually dig into that. They have to get this right.
Looks like they filed, but you do raise an interesting point. With the government shutdown, which courts are considered "essential" and which are not? Either way it is good to see things moving forward. Can't wait to read the response.
If we do get a favorable ruling on appeal, how long do we think it will be before our case gets back in front of a judge and, more importantly, a jury? Spring of 2014? Longer?
Agreed. We just have to play the hand we are dealt at this point, we're all in. No folding.
No kidding. Many long years of waiting. They say patience is a virtue, that makes many on this board saints!
I agree if we get a fair impartial review. It is unfathomable how that ruling went from a pure facts standpoint. Hopefully we will receive an objective review on the next round and a fair opportunity.
I had been away for a while on travel. It appears we are still in a holding pattern but at least the next appeal is on the docket, so we are still in the game. Holding out hope that the good guys win the next round. Good luck to all of the long suffering longs.
That is certainly the best mindset to take at this point, as frustrating as it is. A lotto ticket with high risk/high reward. Although, the risk is somewhat over, as at this point you are either in or out.
Exactly right.
I believe you are correct.
I think an appeal was destined to happen, no matter who had won this round in District court. Judge Payne's ruling may actually save us time in the long run, getting us to the court date that will really matter that much sooner. While disappointing initially, it may turn out to be a blessing. I still believe we have a long way to go before this is over.
~ throck out