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Follow up too..
Maybe this is a simplistic post- but don't you find the timing of the spinoff of the Iso Torque, then IVT Deisel timely????I mean it's not like they have been sitting on their hands the past three years and now have decided to market these technologies..Isn't it more likely that they are deciding, much like your valuation posts, Dread and Tor..That, "o.k party X is interested in developing technology Y..o.k for that one we'd like to get X valuation...??? Or am I reading too much in to the timing of these most recent two Corp's formation...??? If so please let me know your take ..I'd appreciate all replies...Leitrim
I still think we will see the IVT gas numbers prior to the Annual- I think they will want to get that out prior to the meeting....While I am certain a good portion of the Meeting's begining will be a tribute to Vernon and rightfully so, I really hope they are able to share some strategies going forward...There is alot of stuff to cover this year more than any since I Came on board in '99..Torvecian - as you know by now I'm the World's biggest waffler, but I do think some major developments are coming -maybe as fast as the first six months of this year...The timing is just "too right" for almost every technology in their portfolio- definitely starting with the IVT Diesel which I think is where they hinted this is all gonna start.. bottom line is I think you're right- somebody's all lined up on that one..I know a vendor to the company who says...lots and lots of trips to Detroit...
Thanks to you both...
The older I get, the more of an "open book" I've become...most of the times it works for me but not always...:)..I really think we'll all do pretty well here and probably this year not 5 years from now.....Think the grill is firing up for that previously referenced Porterhouse..Needs to be real hot
Thanks for your thoughts Tor..
Re: Eire..No My Grandfather came to States when he was 7- from Co Leitrim To Utica then Syracuse University- Then Roch with EK as a Chemical Engineer..and I agree with what you said..It is a magical place to visit, went on a golf & sightseeing trip with my Dad and Bros. a couple of years ago..truly the best week of my life..and you are right, the people are the most genuine of any place on the planet..The fact that I look just like them and like Guiness probably didn't hurt my cause at blending right in..As an aside..We've been at this for coming up on six years now..I'm up a little in my position- while I do have nagging doubts of them pulling something so monumental off with such limited resources- there are crazy success stories all throughout American Business History...How cool would it be to look back and say we hung in through all the crap and have our day in the sun..I have a son (9) with special needs ( autism) who is the apple of my eye- While I would love to splurge on a new car or a Gibson Les Paul Guitar, and still may do that if we go bonkers, my main motivation is to help solidify his future...sorry to get maudlin on you but sometimes sharing is caring or so they tell me..As always thanks for your insightful posts..
Regards
Lad from Leitrim
Tor:
Realizing none of us really knows any particulars of this latest development, besides what we read..but isn't quite probable that the JV partner(s?) on the diesel subsidiary is DCI, and possibly Cummins, who have been mentioned in past filings as giving "excellent cooperation or having interest" ( can't remember the exact quotes and am too lazy to look it up) in the IVT Deisel applications???? I mean is it likely that DCI is going to let another mftr. produce a "Diesel Dodge Ram" equipped with an IVT???? or Am I just a simple Irishman ( no need to answer that one :).... I wish the Annual was today..you should get out to one???Hell I've got miles I'll send you some....:)
Dread & Tor:
Very interesting update..I would be surprised if that alone will have any impact one way or another on trading in the near term, but I tell you what line I like the best...< Our funding strategy presently includes capital contributions from joint venture partners and military/commercial contracts which may lead, in time, to a public offering>.....
When that day happens and we have a JV partner publically named, and we move to Nasdaq ( my hope) and have spinoff IPO, a little institutional attention as to what they have and how they plan on unlocking,oh baby then we will not only see the steak- but I imagine hear a significant sizzle..As my Friend Tor likes to say it would make current valuation seem a might bit puny..Here's to hoping..As always best wishes to my Long Friends...Leitrim ( The Artist formerly know as Bixsonic)
Hey Ballo..
site is up and the stock is down- all is usual for 10:51 on a trading day..( of course that is always subject to change..nothing is as constant as change my Grandpa used to tell me....
Leitrim
Well said Dig..
And as I have said over the years- the most difficult thing about this one -other than the patience required is the constant speculation as to what is going on behind the scenes- I think because everybody can see the value in the technology that is there for the unlocking..Unless we have some major news in the next few weeks that postively impacts trading and stock valuation, I have to believe the Annual Meeting will field some thoughts and questions very similar to yours...
Or...
If Mid January brings an explosion..we can let the old ones go and upgrade ( in the wife department that is....:)
Leitrim
Happy New Year's
Dread and friends..Here's to hoping that 2005 is finally the year for TOVC..As much time as I spend here and other places tracking/guessing on progress/developments, I think you could say this investment is probably an unhealthy obsession for me- I hope I can make a nice return and then "get on with my life" !!!! ( I'm sure I have company in that Department- as Torvecian has been saying "just wait, just wait" since 1999 !!!- I'm just joking there friend...)
Dread:
a quick thought re your take <As you get to know these guys, two things they aren't lacking are pride and moxie>...as Uncle Bob said to Bud Ewing in Urban Cowboy.."Bud the thing about pride is it's one of those 'seven deadlies'..or Dread as I think you eluded to a much earlier post re this topic "a deal killer"..In other words, if this current management team can't consummate a transaction in the fairly near term I'd Head for the turnstiles..Not pessimistic at all at this point in time, but I think one has to be in something like this with Eyes wide open....
Yep Dread..
Indeed the Ragingbull Board sort of imploded..I was happy to find this venue and appreciate your diligence in trying to keep things fresh when there really isn't much to talk about for stretches with this investment..O.K..Now when do you think they release the IVT Test Data???If before the Annual as JG implied...I'll say there will be something out on or before January 16th which is a Thursday..I hope they blow the doors of the Stock Tahoe..If so..how does this not get the attention of the entire Automotive World ??? This stuff is DONE, INSTALLED and FUNCTIONAL not to mention alot CHEAPER to USE than Existing hardware..We're not talking fuel cells, and electric powered vehicles- the development of this bad boy is done...Somebody just has to want to buy it and we have to find someone who wants to partner to make alot of them..I know easier said than done..OEM's could get this transmission into models fast in my opinion..Honest to God some of my frustration is as a consumer paying $2.25 a gallon and who knows that is not going down again if ever...!!!!???
Dread..
I think we all just gotta get used to this thing being a floating ball until such time that news is so vital that it impacts volume and there are more hungry buyers than there is stock to buy...Are we close...?? Not sure but sure hoping..Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to my Hub friends old and new if I find no compelling reason to post prior to the New Year ( but you all know that is not likely..I'll probably find a "compelling reason")Leitrim
ATL:
You think ( GM) for the whole schmear including the FTV??? I can;'t see one company ( even GM) taking the whole basket unless the Gleasman's REALLY want to move on..Call me nuts but I think they really do want to manufacture the FTV with the right partner..,..Whether or not that is realistic or not is another question...
Leitrim
Hey "3"-
Welcome..What's your take on the stock in general and where we sit currently??? What lights the fuse..Great results or a deal for one of the technologies???? Always welcome divergent viewpoints...Regards and Feel free not to lurk...I usually have no idea what I'm talking about, just shoot from the hip and most times look like a fool...(but does that stop me???")
Leitrim
Dread/Tor ..
When reading the CEO update and kind of calculating the efficiencies of the Pump Motor/IVT..It certainly seems to me that the results will track fairly close to what the Diesel results were in the RAM???With a gasoline Engine now tested and the emmision reductions also to be an eye popper as to what Detroit can do today, when I keep re-reading Dread's "late night find article", I cannot fathom anyway at all that this ultimate release of bullet proof data will not extend beyond shores of Lake Ontario...Bottom Line..Torvecian I now share your quiet optimism..We have to indeed be close to breaking out here in a major way..I can;t see anything else happening this is far to valuable or as Keith likes to say at the Annuals..."The right Technology at the Right time"...Back to holding my breath...
Tags...
You gotta make a decision on this one...Are you an Investor or a trader???If you're an Investor swings in share price are part of the game...For those of us who have gotten gray with this one ( Torvecian, Digger, Dread et al)..One thing is clear...This is alot closer to a resolution- one way or the other in my opinion...O.K I can't help myself..If the freaking CEO can barely contain himself on anticipated shareholder appreciation...Do I dare let myself crack a smile and ponder return percentages at different multiples???Any body else playing those games...??? C'mon fess up....:)
Regards to all my friends.....
Hey Tags..
Welcome..answer to your inquiry is a tad bit more than $6.50 a share... :) ( sorry wise ass comment I know)....If you're in stay in- If you're thinking of getting in..get in ( and hurry) I think Torvecian's sixth sense of an impending earthquake could be accurate...Of Course, I never thought the Red Sox would win the Series in my lifetime so I'm often wrong...
Leitrim
Hey Tor...
O.K now put a little muscle behind that progostication..At what dates are we @ $10 a share...$20...then $40...Half joking half curious..I know so many variables like deal, joint venture, fair value etc..But indulge me I got a sense of humor...
Leitrim
Yep..
It appears that we're gonna have some more fun next few months or so...Is it just me, or isn't life so much more interesting one way or the other when TOVC is trading...:)
Leitrim....
New Website Update..
a little teaser but nice all the same for us not in the engineeering realm...
Regards
Leitrim
Dread:
One quick question...DCI and GM couldn't, or better still wouldn 't announce such a partnership to develop new hybrid technology without atleast some agreement in principal with some of their mystery suppliers would they??? What do you think..I'm also eager to hear from Torvecian..I hope he's not gone prematurely fly fishing with Digger...
Dread...
re the last article..If one reads between the lines ( or simply reads your bold print) and re- reads absolutely EVERYTHING filed by TOVC since inception..I have only one comment...HOLY CRAP ( !!!)Yes it is either blast off or drift away into obscurity and the clock is clearly into launch sequence mode..) Great post thanks for all your research...I've got re read that one again right now...
Regards
Leitrim
Hey Dig..
I hear ya..I have to think we will be reading something on the website by or before the 10th of January- they tend not to let a long time lapse anymore before some sort of update..Whether the "bullet proof" nature of the message sparks a share price rally - well that we'll have to [[find out..where else ya gonna go???? stick around for 2005 and we'll see together if hanging this long was worth the wait...whaddya say...
Hey Dig..
No Clue..
probably some lurkers are speculating about next PR..Volume isn't there ( yet anyhow)...I'd love to see some IVT numbers before Christmas but wouldn't we all (Ho Ho Ho...)I can wait til late January if we have to if they back up our CEO's "bullet-proof" confidence..6 years been waiting for the top to come of this jar...If/ when the peanut butter gets to stick to the roof of my mouth- will that ever be sweet..
I sent email
just yesterday and JG replied "Yes" to test results out either via website or PR prior to the Annual...For what it's worth..
Dread:
I hope you're swimming in Cd Royalties and have major Tax problems on TOVC position as well...
Leitrim
Whadddya want...??
( keep it clean)
O.K folks...
informal survey..No need for a full fledged survey on this Dread..we continue to read with continued confidence ( (read inevitability) of the technolgy's value being unlocked sooner than later..O.K- what's the stock price gonna look like on March 17, 2005 ???? ( I pick St. Paddy's cause- what the hell it's my question???) $4 a share...??$9 a share??? $18 a share???? Nothing more than reading tea leaves...by the way I could make compelling arguments for each of those valuations mentioned above given a certain set of criteria happening ( or not happening)..Grab a bat and step up- I look forward to all replies......
Leitrim
Well said Dread..
Do you think they will have some type of release with preliminary IVT test numbers on the Tahoe before Christmas??
I wonder and am skeptical- that inclusion of Mystery OEM getting "first look" at the data can mean any number of things...although our CEO did mention in his Tribute to Vernon that the "Immediate" future could represent the "best of times" to TOVC holders...I don't know about Ya'll but in our world immediate means pretty darn soon !!!!I would be very proud of myself if that were to happen- I am not by nature a patient person... Oh Longs could our day to bask in the sunshine actually be around the corner???? All comments, questions, insults always welcomed..
Regards
Leitrim
Agree 100% Dread..
but you can't help but think his passing will
foster new enthusiasm- particularly from his sons to validate the paradigm shift that he created by getting this technology to the marketplace like the Torsen..Cycle times in this industry are astronomical due to costs involved- but we don't have that problem now do we....??? Rest in Peace Vernon- job well done...just watch
Yep Dread..
and this usually means something to be announced not too far there after...slight smile..no ear to ear grin yet..(that happens at about $20 a share) At $50 a share...well don;t ask...
Leitrim..still holding watching waiting...
yeh I miss...
those 300-500k volume days- I'd go to the can and come back and be up 20K..May they come again and soon!!!!!! :)
Dread & Co...
Is there any reason to believe the results of the Tahoe with the Gasoline Engine won't compare to the Deisel tests on the RAM- not leading question just curious?? ALso what was in fact the improved fuel economy on the Diesel- I remember something in the Rochester paper saying 38%- than I recall a 96% figure as well in some release ???? Finally isn't it logical to envision that such a new release mentioning improvement in gasoline engines ( right here in the ole USA where gas is king) gets us close to 52 week highs again- if not higher if an OEM is actually mentioned??? Just pondering the future while we twiddle our thumbs ( I mean us in the twiddling I'm sure there isn;t much twiddling @ TOVC with what's at stake)...
Leitrim
Dread: No sweat- I got a sense of humor- although it wanes from time to time after 5-6 years of holding this beauty..To your point- Can we look at the cloak of secrecy " on OEM "#007" as a potential plus..What I mean is- they were very forthright as to the involvement and cooperation they had received in the past from DC and Cummins during certain IVT stages- but they are very quiet as to who is checking this stuff out now....I optimistically hope that is due to $$$ potentially being involved- and a whole lot of it...I got another year in me ( I think !!!????)
Slainte' ( Good Luck in Gaelic)
Leitrim
Dread:
Nah wasn't me ...Dude I'm Irish ( the handle on this Board is from the Co of Origin)..stubborn and not too brilliant..On this little investment I'd settle for just a little luck
Most encouraging thing
in the post is this statement which I have been waiting for about five years: "We anticipate that steadily improving financial conditions in the light truck industry will aid us in consummating one or more transactions commercializing the FTV™ during calendar 2005." Finally a timeframe for consumating
'a deal'- with all this foreward looking, safe harbor corporate speak (thanks to the D&O marketplace) these days, this tells me that one is already teed up pending financing, due diligence etc.. far from giddy, just a little more encouraged..I would have been far less crabby over the past five years had they had this website up and provided simple progress updates like this over the years, but definitely better late than never... Tor, Dread hopefully most of the heavy lifting is almost done and 2005 will be our year..Gonna stick around and see how the story ends...
Leitrim
Hey Dread..
good questions all ..I wonder as well..This kind of PR is worse than silence..It appears to make the company seem as kind of a stumbling enterprise, as you say "not too selective in their partnerships"..I suppose if there are really solid numbers released from the IVT testing data- this will be a total non-event, maybe it is that already..Obviously VG is a visionary- brilliant engineer/designer but that doesn't mean they are exceptional businessmen/ marketers, and that is the game that's on at the moment..I wish the Annual was next week so the CXO guys could field some tough questions on just where they are in this process and what to expect results wise in the next 12-24 months...
Out
Leitrim
Dread:
we get RBJ in the office- but I'm not online subscriber..Honest to God there was nothing more contained in the Article substance-wise than that synopsis..I suppose there are alot of takes you could have on this, but it certainly doesn't seem to bode well for TOVC's abilities to execute in a general sense..If you want me to fax you an article post your fax number and I'd be happy to send..This company needs money and the sooner the better...
Leitrim