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Tomorrow Never comes..
I learned that here :)
All we have is today
nice chatting with ya
Thursday....
Artguy, Tor and You get
the Most Resilient
Shareholder Award..Still convinced
there is real value to unlock here-
which Gleasman & or Friend ( i.e BOD)
that can do it, and or gets the credit makes
no difference here..
Thanks THX..
Agree for the most part,and thanks for posting, but to Mayday's point- I heard that 50 Mill being more in "discussion" phase rather than negotiation. I would be exceedingly happy to be wrong about that distinction.
History has shown..
that this can run very swiftly up if demand for TOVC exceeds supply of available shares to buy. So if they can get the "watershed" event on record, and released publically, and us long longs hang on for a spell- we can visit the double digit share prices very quickly IMHO. Here's hoping for a little history this evening. With this weather, in this Economy, in this state of World affairs, I believe I can handle a little euphoria- I really think I could take some??!!!..Still gonna keep the expectations low as that will very quickly morph into a resentment that clouds better judgment when it comes to finanical matters. All JG has to do is tell us the truth- It's always easier to remember.
There will be a lot..
for Jim to address at this Meeting whether or not there are any deals to talk about or not..He could talk for hours about the state of the Domestic and World Auto Market alone-..Bullet points from recent Automotive Digest...
* Survival of US Automakers Dependent on Tough Economy, Tougher Choices
* Detroit-3 survival dependent on their ability to reinvent themselves
* Also could depend on extension of controversial government bailout
* Much will depend on expected federal "car czar" who would oversee bailout
* US auto industry accounts for 13% of US manufacturing jobs
* Bankruptcy may be only salvation for GM and Chrysler
* Concern that Ch 11 may turn into Ch 7 liquidation as consumers abandon brand
Significance
*Automakers desperately need to restructure bond dept and UAW labor costs
*UAW workers cost $71/hr salary and benefits compared to $49 for nonunionized counterparts
*Retirees, vacations, layoff benefits, health care account for most of difference
*US sales need to hit 12.5M w/ small cars being profitable for GM to break even
*Chrysler needs quality improvement which Ford and GM have achieved
*Higher gas taxes may be needed to keep consumers buying small cars
I'll wear a Blue Blazer W/ascot
but will cary an oar just to be
on safe side..
Here is a more
optimistic slant on current investment environment/opportunities.If nothing else, it
indicates should Torvec have some major news with
respects to commercialization etc. there is some money
still around in liquid form to follow after them ??
nothing left to say that hasn't been said ad naseum by me since 1999...be at Casa Larga to listen to the CEO see what he's got to share..hope to be leaving with a better sense of where we are- maybe leave with a smile..
http://www.schwabinsights.com/2009_01/strategy.html
I'm done buying..
The baseball cards cleared Ebay..One definition of Faith that I always liked.."It is the bird in the morning that feels the light and sings while the dawn is still dark....."
I think we're just waiting for The G's make the sun come up...
Then I suspect there will be some more chirping..
Happy New Year..Easy Does It..
You meant prosperous right...?
not preposterous like "contrary to nature, reason, or common sense" ???!! ( See also Torvec @ $.65 a share?) That one we've got down after 9 years..being still and hoping the sun will shine on this dog's hind quarters in '09..Check that EARLY '09!
Merry Christmas
Leitrim
From Automotive Digest..
Seriously what the heck would 10 Billion do for GM at this point..??? Ford started to turn back to shore a little earlier..Historic stuff in any case..I filled up today on w Henrietta Kwik Fill for $1. 68..That may have helped them some..but costs are were outta whack for too long..
"GM Hires A-Team Preparing for Bankruptcy after Senate Rejects Loans"
Situation
* GM and Chrysler claim they will be out of funds by end of 2008
* Senate test vote rejected providing $14B in federal loans for GM and Chrysler
*Southern Republicans where non-UAW, foreign automakers operate led opposition
*Republicans insisted on restructuring and immediate wage, benefit cuts from UAW
*Bush has so far refused to allow $700B for bank bailout to go to automakers
*Loan approval failure may lead to largest bankruptcy filings in US history
Significance
*GM hired lawyers and bankers to consider whether to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy
*Reported team biggest players in bankruptcy
Harvey Miller worked on Lehman Brothers Holdings, Bethlehem Steel bankruptcies
*Others include Jay Alix and William Repko and Martin Bienenstock (Enron bankruptcy)
*Arthur Newman focused on GM's multi-billion-dollar VEBA retiree health care funds
*Saturn may go into bankruptcy separately or be eliminated completely
That's the way
I read it as well..
Here's to a walk off Grand Slam. I'll be happy to have capital gains problems...
No Long who has held
8-10 years would possibly sell..there is no rationale short of
desperately needing cash to weather immediate personal cash flow challenges, tax bill etc..
That said, it is not unreasonable to expect Them to truly hit more than a sacrifice bunt- These are extraordinary times in this Industry- If the future is now and we are part of the future- then it's time to roll- and my notion of roll is not $10 a share...Like I've said all along we could get peace in the valley real quick if this develops like we've been led to believe it will all along- Exclusive club, Penthouse etc.......Mr. President- we're all present and accounted for, and we're all ears...
I'm for anything
that's good for TOVC's shareholders and short term share appreciation..If that is Carlos @ Nissan or GM...Personally I don't see how Waggoner can keep his job whether he gets the 2-3 months cash to implement a plan or not..
Agree with you both....
To Torvecian's point of citing could this be our time-even in the midst of the ongoing financial implosion- finally to get this exposed and have them partner up with friends that have money and man power, maybe get a Nasdaq listing, maybe in not the unforeseebble future have need for all those additional authorized shares...Man this has been a long walk into and out of the woods..and I'm just a shareholder..will be still and wait..( and of course add to my position..I still have furniture but baseball cards are now on Ebay...)
P.S.
anybody got a Webster's handy that can define "watershed"..??
see if there is any share price band range in the "further definitions."..These updates gotta make Dick Sullivan clean his magnifying glass...It's welcome read-
Thanks for the post..
looks like I gotta get a babysitter...I wasn't planning on going..That's about a restrained gushing as I could imagine..
Somebody thinks he's getting paid and if he gets paid I get paid...
Saw That..
I'm thinking it may be Phil Murtaugh...??
( point: this is the Wild Wild West- worse than on line poker..)
While Wagonner
is appealing to the Feds for cash- Carlos is at auto shows..
trying to sell cars with innovation..(imagine that.??)
some cool rides on this link..(Z looks as nice inside as out.) .http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/LA2008/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=13432346
Been quiet for some time..
..I've been reading quite a bit about the Industry- some if it is fluff or bullet points and some of it is indepth -too lengthy to bother posting here. As Dread posted 2 or 3 of our target customers/partners are facing bankruptcy- maybe that's horrible maybe it's the opportunity for change and getting TOVC tech in mass production has never looked better ?? Or what if SAIC does somehow acquire GM.(It's cheaper than Mattel how is that for a state of things..G..I Joe is worth more than Cadillac !!)- Is that good for Torvec and Isotorque or back to square one with the Chinese?
As far as the aformentioned fluff- here is one of the better ones...Source MSN
Myths about the Big 3 automakers
Posted Nov 21 2008, 02:41 PM by Kim Peterson Rating: Filed under: Ford, GM, Kim Peterson
The Wall Street Journal and U.S. News try some mythbusting about the Detroit automakers pressuring Congress for a bailout.
The automakers have returned home in failure, by the way, after pleading for help from lawmakers. Democrats said they wanted to see more evidence the companies had a turnaround plan in place, and asked to see a proposal next month. The inability to secure aid will increase the pressure on the companies' boards, the Journal says.
Now, about those myths:
1. Bankruptcy is, actually, an option. In fact, General Motors is already bankrupt, writes the Journal's Paul Ingrassia. It's out of cash and needs emergency help. All that's left is the official bankruptcy filing. Same for Chrysler.
2. Removing the chief won't help. The CEO of GM has said he didn't see the point of resigning, according to the Journal. Well, how about a fresh start after disastrous financial results and a plunging share price?
3. Bankruptcy equals death. It's actually a second chance, according to Ingrassia. The companies could get a fresh start by getting out of cumbersome contracts. And that doesn't just mean union obligations, either. We're talking about commitments with dealers, retirees and others.
4. Mandating bonus cuts or fuel-efficient cars is necessary. Customers are already pushing for more fuel-efficient cars, so the government doesn't need to make that a condition on automakers, Ingrassia writes. And executive pay really isn't much of a problem.
5. A GM-Chrysler merger guarantees succeess. The automakers are putting the best spin on what a merged company would look like, but there's no guarantee. GM has massive problems of its own, much less what it would bring on with Chrysler, Ingrassia writes.
6. The Big Three don't build small cars. They build them -- they aren't very good, according to U.S. News. Domestic cars have a miserable showing in the magazine's quality rankings, while Toyotas rule.
7. The Big Three don't build desirable cars. Think Ford Fusion. Or the Chevrolet Malibu, Cadillac CTS or Saturn Outlook, writes U.S. News' Rick Newman. But when gas prices soared, the companies didn't have much left to offer. GM and Ford can't compete with a good minivan, or a crossover, or a fun little car like the Mini Cooper, Newman writes.
8. Blame the guys asking for handouts. The CEOs of Chrysler and Ford are relatively new, and have to deal with bad decisions made by predecessors. GM's Rick Wagoner has been around for eight years and bears some responsibility. Still, GM's march to failure began even before Wagoner, Newman writes.
9. CEOs should fly coach. They couldn't handle any urgent phone calls that way, Newman writes, and they'd have to whisper to avoid the media and others listening in the next row. But if these CEOs are asking for the people's money, they should take the people's transportation, he writes.
10. Blame the unions. The unions added to corporate bloat, Newman writes, but they have made major concessions since then. If you want to point fingers, point at the expensive healthcare plans that retirees get. And unions are going to have to accept the fact that the cushy job and wage protections of the past cannot exist in today's world.
11. The automakers aren't trying. They've cut costs and closed factories. But they haven't made the major, earthshaking moves they need to, like killing off divisions or demanding universal healthcare, Newman writes.
Business Week with Ghosn
I kept looking for Maria B to ask him:
"So Carlos:
What DO you think of Torvec's Tech, and what's the hold up..? Don't you want that Z to really stick the corners????.."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_48/b4110000510031.htm?campaign_id=yhoo
Hey Torvecian..
All I read into that is a guy who has been told he's invested in a company that is playing for "all the tea in China"..is trying to find a cup of tea- you know a whistler wetter..besides it's cold out now...I'm not putting words in Dread's mouth either but it appears that is his concern- the skill set changes from development to commercialization. Not unlike the situation at a GM of F- the Board of Directors is not of much help to the independent shareholder. They don;t want to sell the company- we're screwed..Not enough being offered for the Iso, We're screwed...Realize this post may not see the light but I don;t know of a more sanitized version of my last point..I know how to say it alot more color, but Dyna
showed me that tact isn;t usually successful.
That "shot" has been
called for a long long time..Hope there
is something there..too many "tommorows" in this industry..
It's gonna be on their tombstone.
Survey..
I voted ya stay but I have no logical way of understanding why you would want to ?? I wish the board could disappear into a cyber coma. It's one thing for management to be interested in shareholders sentiment, and certainly makes sense that they would want to protect us and our investment from lies and mistruths- but another entirely to be so preoccupied with the
daily banter and crapola that gets kicked around here- and Yes I put myself as a chief participant in the latter. Jim does like to get his opinions known here..Put down your name and phone number- see if you get a call. It was less than 5 minutes for me- If memory serves me he wanted me to correct an opinion held by I think NYC Invest re the CXO matter??. Doesn't matter- not important. Focus on a commercialization event- form a JV with a leading company and all this nonsense gets put in it's proper persepctive which is not where we are at present.
Thanks
Huh ???
Wow...
Thanks ..I think..??! Atleast I don't have to wait 2-3 years to dismiss that particular commercialization dream scenario..
Can you call the Ford while you're at it..
Some Auto folks I know..
(couple of dealers) feel it may curtains for Chrysler (inferior product offering mainly)and that the Govt will let that one sink. Also offer that GM will drastically reduce their lines-keep Cadillac, Chevrolet, dramatically shrink dealer networks and start trying to make smaller more fuel efficient vehicles profitably..basically follow Toyota's model 20 years late in the game..They also feel blame is 50-50 unions/ management- Toyota began trying to please their customer- the one that used to have money...!!!
Turnaround At GM is daunting ..
If they and TOVC are trying to
figure out how to get our solutions in their vehicles-
why wait til things get worse..?? That strategy hasn't served them too well..
Here is another point of view:
( source MSN)
Should GM just file for bankruptcy?
Posted Nov 11 2008, 02:29 PM by Kim Peterson Rating: Filed under: GM, Kim Peterson
A Deutsche Bank analyst gave General Motors' stock a price target of zero. Even if the company averts bankruptcy, Rod Lache noted, its future is likely to be "bankruptcy-like."
Meanwhile, hedge fund manager Bill Ackman says GM would be better off filing for bankruptcy instead of taking government bailout money.
"It has been hamstrung for years because it has too much debt and it has contracts that are uneconomic," he said on The Charlie Rose Show, according to Bloomberg. "The way to solve that problem is not to lend more money. They should do prepackaged bankruptcy."
GM needs to get out from its debt, and bankruptcy allows it to seek protection from creditors while continuing to operate, he said. GM executives have ruled out bankruptcy, opting to ask for federal aid.
Shares of GM dropped 15% to hit a 65-year-low today as investors reacted to news that the company's liqudiity would be just barely enough to run its business through the rest of this year. Liquidity will fall below minimum levels needed next year.
Still, JPMorgan analysts recently rated GM's bonds a "buy," saying that GM has several options to improve its bottom line.
"We believe GM has several sources of liquidity it can access to bridge the company to 2010 when it realizes considerable cost cuts," the analysts said in a report. Those sources include government loans, cost cuts and raiding GM's overfunded pension plan.
Typo/
Freudian slip on the hyphen after the O in the President elect's sir name..old habits die hard..
< i think you have stopped...
being stubborn and sold your position. now you are bashing the company>
I think he's still fully invested- is long- but his faith in the ultimate of the success in this company has been diminished by the historical financial picture here.He's got company. Atleast that's what I read..The picture is very bleak in Detroit- Is that good for us--"The longer they don't the sooner there gonna" per V.G. Are we there..?? We have been told verbally and in written form that we're "almost there" for atleast five years.. It's absurd for someone to be labeled stubborn and a crybaby when this "bidding war" between potential "suitors" rivals The Israel Palestine conflict for duration. The expressions in quotes are from our CEO- If that wasn't an accurate depiction of where we stood years ago-then don't fault shareholders for looking for return on investment ??!!
I see an investor expressing an opinion- not a malcontent or basher..who the heck is gonna take time to update and monitor this board..unless you hoping to get paid..eventually..??
As we saw in Elections democracy is a good thing..and maybe like President Elect O'Bama said "we will get there.."..This road is long real long..Moderator to me is just pointing that out.
And Yes we all know this has been and still is a speculative investment- I got that part.
Regards
Or perhaps same
reason that they spelled November "Novemeber", they were in a hurry to get "something" out..???!! We'll be checking old Beatles Albums for clues before long..( Paul is Dead???)
I think GM and Chrysler are gonna announce some type of alliance- before long...That outta work about as well as McCain /Palin
Update..
trying to say stuff without saying stuff..frustrating for all I assume.
http://www.torvec.com/messagefromceo110508.htm
Lockheed question..
O.K assume Lockheed in one of the Three chosen for the 180 Mill
next phase...They'll be developing and supplying their entry which will be, I presume outfitted with TOVC CV joints- maybe more of our gear ..What would that single order mean to TOVC- $$$ wise, not technical validation ( which is a beautiful thing don;t get me wrong..)..No wrong answers..just giving voice to thoughts while we wait to hear something..invitation is in hand just looking for the party to start so I can join in the fun..
Seems I missed the Summer this year..another one in the books and they keep rolling on...
Regards
I feel like
Bill Murray in Ground Hog's Day..
Then again..
maybe we'll end up selling an ISO Torque to every auto made in the USA at the end of this ??( I tend to waffle emotionally on this investment sometimes minute to minute- but I don't sell..)
Towards that end..
The Big Three may soon be the "Not So big Two.." Would be helpful if The next Update From Company addressed how Global economic situation is impacting strategy...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27360381/?GT1=43001
Board Change..
We lose a Flaum- Gain a Flaum..
It's a push....
< be a future.....
in reaching out to acquire some new approaches to solving a problem now that the playing field has been leveled by the marketplace.>
one would think that would be the case..but I know what I don't know and with this one...@ $1.20 I'm officially underwater..finally took awhile to catch ya but I'm in the Club..
Jim Cramer
would say neither- convert to Gold bars bury them in the backyard- go to bed for two years. Dow down another 500 + today.Not sure if it's official but certainly feels "depressing". Where is Lil Orphan Annie when you need her..EOM
Here is GM's snapshot..
(just giving equal time to F's sorrows..)
GM shares tumble to 58-year low
October 9, 2008 12:52 PM ET
All Associated Press newsNEW YORK (AP) - General Motors Corp. shares on Thursday plunged to their lowest level since the opening months of the Korean War, as investors continued to fret that the decline in U.S. vehicle sales may be spreading to the rest of the world.
GM shares plummeted by as much as $1.50, or 22 percent, to $5.41 before rebounding to $5.80 later in early afternoon trading. The low point marked the Detroit-based automaker's lowest share price since Dec. 16, 1950, when it hit $5.40, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices at the University of Chicago. The historical price is adjusted for splits and other changes.
GM's steep plunge also helped pull the Dow Jones industrial average into negative territory, as it looked to recover from a massive sell-off earlier in the week. The Dow fell about 100 points in early afternoon trading.
Thursday marked the GM's fourth-straight day of losses. The automaker's shares are down about 35 percent from Friday's closing price of $9.
Analysts have voiced concerns in recent days that the ongoing slump in U.S. vehicle sales could last longer than they previously expected and could spread to other parts of the world, particularly Europe.
J.D. Power and Associates said Thursday that it now expects U.S. new vehicle sales to total 13.6 million units this year and 13.2 million in 2009.
The company had previously projected 2008 sales of 14.2 million units and 2009 sales of 14 million units. Last year, U.S. sales totaled 16.1 million units.
The company also forecast a slow down in vehicle sales growth in both China and India, along with a drop in European vehicle sales.
Ford Motor Co. shares also took a big hit Thursday but managed to stay above a more-than-24-year low set the day before.
The Dearborn, Mich.-based automaker's shares fell 24 cents, or 9 percent, to $2.42, after dropping to $2.40 earlier Thursday.
Ford shares tumbled to $2.10 Wednesday, marking their lowest price since April 5, 1984, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices.
What's next ??
One Question:
We delivered the product 6 months ahead of schedule- but how long will the various government agencies spend time "kicking the tracks" in a manner of speaking ??
One comment:
would have loved to see a quote from the Air Force brass in the text but maybe that is a no-no at this phase of the development of the relationship- That one quote that was in a prior release of the FTV being the most advanced tracked vehicle around would seem to garner more attention- if bracketed with Head of Air Force procurement professing his "TOVC Love" etc.. I know I'm probably splitting hairs..
One Request..Keep them coming Jim..Who is looking at the IVT??
Lockheed interested in acquiring exclusive rights to the CVJ..?? - I think the strategy of getting customers to really desire the products is the right way to go...Looking at the general market there is such incredibile fagility, well the TOVC story is still rather compelling and there may be a whole lot of other people that would park some money here with limited downside as opposed to having it in Dow Stocks for the next 8 months: That is if they only knew.
Kinda agree..
I'm not crazy about the wait but if they continue to increase the desireability of the products, create a demand, maybe land an order ( please God) then the value should eventually arrive..Ultimately Dread, I too am looking for north of $20 at this point..One big 50-100 Million dollar order should do that in short order but those kinda orders take years and years to land..( so I'm told..)