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“Kevin's actions and inactions (the lack of SEC filings for about two years) have IMHO been the cause of the sharp drop in the price during the past six months.”
LOL I take these drops above the ones that happened when he was still filling.
“GERS has said filings would allow debt to convert and we won’t get financials until this litigation is complete”
Not exactly. KK said:
“We’re working on our filings while we finalize restructuring agreements with our lenders. While we’re targeting year-end to get everything done, our reports will be delayed if execution of the restructuring agreements is delayed. If that occurs, it will be to mitigate the risk of dilution. “
So it might be sooner, but I think the restructuring hasn’t happened yet.
There can always be defendants that have the feeling they will lose in court, and think they don’t have the resources to survive that.
If such a defendant offers Greenshift enough, and GERS knows they might have a harder time getting this money in case the defendant goes bankrupt, then why wouldn’t GERS settle in such a case with that defendant?
It doesn’t mean they need to settle with all defendants.
Significant gold recovery expected by September 1st.
Might be the last day to get these cheap shares. All aboard!!!
Now that’s the stuff that really scares me! You just painted the nightmare I’ve been having every night! LOL
So? I did say”What is the news, if the oral arguments where already planned, just not scheduled?”
So to you it is news when a date is set, while you know is going to be set anytime soon? It was set for calendaring for a while.
If that’s the standard for news, you can be surprised for a stock not reacting to it very frequently.
“There was news last week”
Where did you read it? An newspaper, an investing blog? The only place where it was shares was probably here and on the skunk blog. Places mostly investors in GERS come. Not the typical place you find new investors with that ‘news’
And is it even news if you know it was coming around this time, only saying it will still be a while? What is the news, if the oral arguments where already planned, just not scheduled? There already was ‘news’ that the defendants wanted it later then GERS.
I don’t think that’s news that should get GERS trading. Neither is it when the arguments start according to plan. News might be what is being said, but only if it is shared to a broader public it will do anything, or if an shareholder visiting the hearings will see a reason to buy more.
It’s happening now! The waiting is going to pay off!
“Fake PRs, no gold, no water, no money, no trust, no new investors, no permits, no vats.”
Please enlighten us with your proof. I suppose you have been there to do your own research and got drilling reports proving all your statements?
“Trading, yes, but not speculating.”
I don’t agree. Those who like to speculate, often prefer an outcome within days to weeks. Not months to over a year, like could be the case here.
Also, for speculators to move in, there has to be speculation most often based on news en PR’s feeding the speculation. Here there isn’t any news, or PR’s published to the broader public. Yes, we got the skunk blog, but that is mostly found by people who already know about GERS. Like you know, we don’t even have filings, so what should trigger speculators to come here?
No news, no filings, no PR’s, no information send out to the world, no speculation. Only us who know.
To find this stock you would either have to be very lucky, or Sherlock Holmes.
I’m not to sure about that. I think it’s just an other station to pass. The journalists are waiting at the end of the line, to see which train is most interesting. They aren’t riding along on every train. I think that’s far more effective for them.
That’s true also, but I still think there are enough brokers trading GERS to get some more activity, if there was news.
I like to think of it as a train. This train is riding towards the outcome of the final appeal. There are stations along the track, and people taking the train know that. They don’t get excited over that, because they know only the destination matters.
Others who life at the side of the track, only see a train passing, not knowing or caring where it heads.
No newspaper is shouting that this train is heading towards a possibly very fortunate outcome of the appeal.
So why would others like to board this train. To them this just seems like a train riding around in circles, without any news.
Only those riding the train know that it isn’t true.
But as the destination nears, it might be that people living closer to the end station, seeing this train passing by, know that this train might be heading toward a very nice destination. They might want to jump on.
As soon as the train reaches its destination and it turns out it is very fortunate, you can be sure that the journalists standing at the end of the line (they’ve always been there reporting on every train that stops there) will write about it.
They will also tell the world how much a ticket on that train is worth. Increasing the value instantly. IMO the price tag put at it on the end of the line is what matters most. Those who know about it will know how to get their tickets. And even if volume could be higher, if for instance the math says the ticket will cost $2 each, the price will go there, because no one will sell their ticket at $.50
Yes volume would make that final ride much more solid, but in the end it’s the destination that matters.
If there isn’t any relevant news, you can’t blame the people who talk about less important but PEIX related topics. I welcome everybody who has some news to share to do so, instead of blaming others.
“I have to take note of the fact that the scheduled date for oral arguments in the Appeals Court still hasn't caused one GERS share to change hands.”
Looking at all previous moments that helped the needle move, I wansn’t expecting any movement based on that news.
In the past it was mostly the speculation in the beginning of settlement negotiations before the start of the appeal. Everything else was just ignored.
The news or expectations have to be big and the outcome very close.
Until then, trading remains the way you know it.
It was dead before that. Not much posting since your post: https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=145937860
And even before that time, there was little real news shared.
It just seemed alive for a while, but almost nobody has been sharing news about peix.
Most people who want to buy GERS might put in an AON order, because it’s hard to get many GERS shares at the same price otherwise. Avoiding ending up with a small amount of shares compared to the costs.
Doing so, will mean the order would have to meet exactly the same amount of your AON sell order, or will be filled with multiple orders or a part of a normal sell order. Even if your asking price is lower, it will still not be sold if you can’t sell is all at once.
Making it probably not so strange that your order didn’t fill.
I understand your reasons for trying to sell it as an AON order, but the liquidity of this stock is just too low. Even below .06 you probably wouldn’t be able to sell that way.
But don’t worry, liquidity will increase as soon as the large public knows the outcome of the lawsuit.
My line: “Also, what would be the downside if after the final ruling, the debt was paid of, filings submitted and doors open for all investors?”
Your reply “If the Greenshift Corporation is close to bankruptcy, the downside from the last traded price is quite large.”
I think you are talking about a different downside. The downside of the share price.
I was talking about the downside (like in the definition “the negative aspect of something otherwise regarded as good or desirable.”) for waiting for filing after the ruling and paying off the debt, compared to filing before the ruling without paying off the debt.
But, and if you have read the entire conversation on this topic between nobody12378 and me, you are probably aware of this, nobody12378 has already confirmed he also was talking about filing after the ruling.
“BUT he would not release them until AFTER the Federal Circuit ruling”
Then we are on the same page I suppose.
I’m still not convinced. Upward pressure doesn’t exist until the final ruling. Updated filings will not generate that pressure on their own.
For debt holders to profit they would first need to convert to common shares. Otherwise they will only get what is owned to them. And since converting increases the os 3 times, the pps will probably drop.
And I think a lot of possible investors don’t like that either.
Also, what would be the downside if after the final ruling, the debt was paid of, filings submitted and doors open for all investors?
I understand, but how do you think the sp would react to an increase of OS by 300% ?
And what’s the guarantee that the debt holders will not let the shares either fully or partly hit the market, like before?
I see no reason to be sure that history will not repeat again. And you know how quick the pps dropped in the past. So months could be devastating IMO
Nobody12378, I can understand what the benefit would be if the filings would be up to date.
But what do you think would happen if the numbers about the convertible debt from from 2015 are still valid, and the filings where updated.
Earlier you talked about not selling the shares they own could generate the best profit for the debt holders.
But how can they make a profit if they do not convert the debt to shares?
If they convert them, it wouldn’t it mean mean that the OS would increase with 60 million shares at least?
Wouldn’t that slash our take in the windfall by four?
I think it might be wiser if KK first collects the windfall, then pays off the debt, and then updates the filings.
Wouldn’t that maximize our profits?
Off course, if you aim at the maximum ability to be sold to all who is interested, having the filings up to date is critical. But IMHO it might be that that’s a bit of too much hurry. I understand that you might want to get it over as fast as possible. But IMO taking it a bit slower, might be wiser, because it doesn’t slashes our profit by four.
“If Greenshift's debt holders are unable to convert their bonds into GERS common stock, then there's literally zero risk of any more dilution, which means that the Greenshift CEO has just run out of excuses for not sending all of the missing 10-Ks and 10-Qs to the SEC.”
No, because sending them will make them able to start converting them.
It’s all in ine sentence shared by KK:
“bringing our filings current carries an immediate risk of dilution from lenders that can be expected to convert their debt into stock”
It all has been shared and discussed here many times, so I’m finding it hard to believe you still don’t get it.
Yes, the post that can be found among the “stickies” above the other posts, the one posted by Greenshift (Kevin Kreisler) says:
“bringing our filings current carries an immediate risk of dilution from lenders that can be expected to convert their debt into stock as soon as they can deposit, clear, and sell our shares”
Now do you have any proof of this statement and the numbers on the debt from the 10-K being changed?
“You have information that is three and a half years old. Barack Obama was still the President when this information was sent out. Greenshift's lawsuit was still in the District Court at that time. Those factors alone make the 2015 10-K irrelevant.”
It might be irrelevant to you, but since the debt holders haven’t been able to convert to common shares for a while, and since after the RS there hasn’t been volume indicating it, it is likely that these numbers are pretty accurate.
Irrelevant would mean to me that the numbers would be erased and replaced with a totally new amount meanwhile. And as I don’t expect that, they aren’t irrelevant to me.
But good luck basing your expectations on no numbers at all.
“Do you really think that Greenshift's 2015 10-K is relevant?”
If you got more recent information, feel free to share it. Until then, I go by what I got.
“I really don't know the total number of shares the creditors have, but it seems to be a sizable portion, probably many times over what we hold as Investors”
Something I wrote before:
From the most recent 10K
https://www.greenshift.com/content/secfilings/pdf/GERS_10K_2015.pdf
“As of December 31, 2015, the Company had $1,877,991 in cash, and current liabilities exceeded current assets by about $11.5 million, which included derivative liabilities of $7,148,016 and $4,343,696 in convertible debentures”
Over 4.3 million dollar convertible debt means that even if it was all converted at 6 cents, it would increase the float with over 60 million shares. Meaning each share would be worth less than 1/4 of its value now. Also the litigation windfall for the common shareholders would be slashed by four.
That would be if it was all converted at the same price.
Yep...and closing in on the final court decision. Maybe you haven’t been reading in since the last RS?
Not possible to issue new shares without filing first. And we haven’t seen the volume too that could indicate such an OS since the last RS.
“I brought the nonfunctional website to his attention by announcing, on this board, my intention to notify the FBI about it. I also gave him a deadline for bringing the website back to a functional condition, which he met. Good for him. “
Might be. But he didn’t change it until I mailed him, after which he thanked me personally. So I wonder if he really reads all the posts here on a regular basis.
I don’t know if the debt holders are interested in taking the risk. If the ruling wouldn’t be in GERS’s favor, they probably get nothing. Because it might mean bankruptcy for GERS. Today’s customers will run away, because they don’t need to pay for licenses anymore. And all the other patents are also owned by Attis.
And even if they are not planning to sell the shares, they would need to convert the debt to shares to profit from a rise in share price, otherwise they would only get the money they’re entitled to.
So even then it would mean massive dilution.
According to the flowchart, it might be we will not know the outcome until July next year. So KK still has some time.
I wonder however if it will be better to have the filings up to date now with the risk for dilution, or to have them updated after the decision, making it able for KK to pay off the debt first.
Would be nice to meet everybody.
The problem with the company’s website wasn’t solved until somebody brought it to his attention. Maybe nobody brought the difference in outstanding shares to his attention yet. So you might want to give it a try. However it might be he is most willing to listen to those who have supported him, and less to those who have called him a ‘drunk’. But who knows.
Just wait for the squeeze!
Understanding that short sale data could also indicate something else, doesn’t exclude the possibility of shorting a stock.
Have you got proof?