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YES ! Depends on what the verdict is! If the jury finds that the NWS was in fact in breach then they can deside to say so. Backward relief and damages is what they need to determine.
That would also mean the the 4 amendment ( Jan 2019 letter) would also be null. If in fact the jury finds the NWS caused harm and they deside to make the Gov pay back the $100 billion then the GSE will be very close to there capital requirement !
BUT what if this is there game plan (Bidens) Court ordered to pay back the $100 billion, then would it be easier for the Gov to then redeem the warrants and SPSA and cash out making more $$ slush fund money for them?? I don't know the in's and out's of this idea but remember we are talking about the greedy Gov here.
Where's that slide again can someone post it thank you ! I'll sticky it
Is that the slide with the green bar graph Robert ?? That makes a clear picture of money stolen by the Gov !!
DAMAGES MODEL
Can it be a % rate of Net income on the Dividend paid to treasury since Treasury stole all the dividend money ??
Say 1 Q paid 5 billion to treasury then - the 10% payment before NWS balance on that amount as a %
5 billion - 10% = 4.5 billion left roughly per Q. Of course that changes every Q but using that as an example.
So after the 10% payment roughly 4 to 4.5 billion was stolen every Q of that then should the interest rate on that be an award ?? per common and JPS ??
4.5 billion = 6 % would be (Damages) AS PER LAMBERTS COURT is $270,000,000 per Q since Aug 2012 = roughly 10 Q SINCE NWS = 10 X $270,000,000 = $27,00000000 PAID IN DAMAGES
Great digging Robert !
((( 5th floor, the US Court of Appeals!))) Now who's on that bench ? An Obama or Bush appointee?? maybe a Trump one !!
https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/home.nsf
I’m sure commons and JPS will finish up around the payout amounts if it’s a win in Judge Lamberts court ?
Familyman posted a breakdown it’s in the sticky box.
You sure got that right !!!!! Mind you the Gov would make another amendment and extend the warrants. I personal feel they are meaningless as stated in the SPSA they are merely insurance for collecting there investment if the GSE were to be wound up!
With court #2 is this still in play with payouts ?
If this is a win for shareholders I wonder how much the class action takes and what shareholders will get. I take it the Gov will appeal. What would be the next circuit court this would go and would it stand up ?
In the first trail the Jury had to determine what damages shareholders were awarded due to damages of the Governments unfair dealing . Even though it was capped at 1.6 billion plus interest wasn’t it up to the discretion of the jury to award what they thought was appropriate?
Is this the same for trail #2
Hmmm have heard of google maps ???? Asking from a friend of Freddie Shareholders !
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_District_of_Columbia
Well I own both and so does alot of posters on both boards. I want a good out come for all ! But really understand it's a risky investment weather your common or JPS.
Theory !
If this is even some what possible?
If the Biden Gov wanted to cash in Fannie and Freddie for there slush fund how about this?
Lawyers to a lazy job defending government in the up coming Lambert Jury case.
Jurors see the fraud and stored money from the NWS and award shareholders lost dividends. Make Gov pay back the NWS - the 10% fee every year up until Jan 2019.
Now Fannie and Freddie are cashed up then Biden Gov does a quick liquidation of the companies takes the $$ and runs !
I mean it’s a pretty left field idea !
Oh???? Good to know ! Thanks
8 ? AGAIN !!!!! Setting up for another Hung jury!! WTF
Seems there plan was to make everyone a common shareholder then do a big R/S then RE-IPO. Sounds like something the Gov would do to Fannie and Freddie. Greedy Bastxxds
Hope they don’t for everyone’s sake!
It’s all BS fluff and buff! No one has proof just blowing wind! Really wish people would post facts rather than BS
If the Lambert Court issues a win for GSE shareholders it will be minimal. The Gov will apeal .
In 2028… knock knock ! Behind door #1 is amendment 5 !! Extend the warrants and resume NWS….. Gov is greedy
YES !!
Do you think that differentiation on funding mechanism is enough to overcome a Seperation of Powers violation challenge with HERA in the case of the FHFA?
YES!!
The doctrine in the Appropriations clearly states self funding agencies outside congress ( holding the purse strings for funding ) is unconstitutional!
Collecting fees for self funding is another law matter that needs to be challenged. That would I believe be a good fight against FHFA.
JMO
Pigs fly and Biden is still POTUS who in fact his Government needs to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Max and release them from ( TEMPORARILY CENSORSHIP) after 15 years!
No shares are safe from greedy Gov!
Common or JPS but Atleast JPS have a seat at the table where commons get what they are given.
I own both classes and I hope I’m wrong and everyone makes a ton $$$$. Mean while I brought another lottery ticket tonight! Powerball over $875 million . I think the odds of winning is better than release of the twins ??
Rop was hot Potatoes ! It would have shown there hand the (Federalists) SCOTUS. The easy way out is to deny Rop/ push off the CFPB case until Congress makes it public that they should control there funding! Then SCOTUS will here the arguments and the opinon will be that ( Appropriations clause) CBFB can't self fund from the Federal Reserves leaving in tact that a agency can self fund by charging fees etc. That way it keeps Fannie and Freddie under Gov control and doesn't make a mess of all the other agency's that are self funding AND THE CFPB WILL BE UNDER CONGRESS'S CONTROL as it has gotten out of control. A win win for SCOTUS and GOV. Total disregard for the law.
It's all falling into place !
SCOTUS gave Congress time to sort there shxt out. Now congress sent the letter to SCOTUS stating hey we want control of funding! SCOTUS will uphold the 5TH court ruling you bet ya!
Where does that leave the FHFA ??? SCOTUS really shot them selfs i the foot with (Collins case)
I've asked you once already but you dogge the question!
Fannies JPS give a cost in the right column O/S to A/S and DOES NOT say at redemption value where's on Freddies balance sheet it clearly state JPS at redemption value ! Why are they different .
I'm sure this time around he won't be listerning to certin people in his admin. He will apoint someone close to him to pick and choice which people will get things done! I'd say if that happens the GSE will be released and people in his circle will make money.
My feeling is if Trump is in in 2024 then theres alot of big investment companies wanting a return to private shareholders. Alot of these companies may or may not have given to his campaign. I don't understand why we wouldn't get everyone onboard buying commons then release and zero out the warrants and SPSA. That would make all his donors and politicians wealthy even more. It's a no brainer.
Don't forget !
Theres alot of banks and corpts and investment companies have alot of shares still since 2008 and its payday time !!
Even though commons have the best return they are the risky ones! I'm glad I own both but hell if they leave common alone I'm happy! I think you would be too having over 500k in common right now?
Sounds like ground Hog Day doesn't it !
One thing is sure is the Gov will look after them selfs before fannie Mae and freddie Mac shareholders
This is helpful too
https://www.insidemortgagefinance.com/topics/1681-gses
The last 2 lines explains why the shift to buy more JPS than commons. Greedy Gov want to maximum there takings before handing back empty shell companies. I hope thats not the case but at lease JPS fair better in any conversion than commons would.
As I’ve stated many times before I’m 75% Freddie & Fannie JPS and 25% Freddie commons
He’s wrong on a couple of things but generally I would agree with the plan.
Quote…………..
The junior preferred stock should be exchanged for common stock on a basis that is viewed as fair, based on capital markets standards and the prevailing market value of those securities.
(((((The U.S. Treasury should exercise its warrants to acquire 79.9% of the common stock of the GSEs, as agreed in the PSPAs. )))))
WRONG!! As agreed in the PSPA it does not state the warrants are an agreement to be paid back!!! So to his comment below to the SPSA paid in full then both should be set to Zero!!!!
Since the beginning of the conservatorships, Treasury has received dividends totaling over $300 billion on its original capital infusion of $191 billion. Consequently, the liquidation preference of the senior preferred stock should be reduced to zero and the Treasury should be considered “repaid”. These actions are aligned with the interests of the U.S. Government to move forward in recapitalizing the GSEs, namely in eliminated the current significantly negative net worth of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and removing claims that negate the value of the very common stock that must be offered to the public to raise capital.
JPS cannot be converted as per legal contracts! I for one would challenge that ! Gov knows they can't legally change JPS contracts!! Steve new that hence why he made the plan / idea to take a haircut SPSA and JPS as a carrot for exiting Conservrship !
For me I'd say to Gov (Fxxk You!) I'll wait another 5 plus years for full Par and dividend's the Gov has STOLEN enough !!!
JPS are contracts for bonds on debt paid at par! either $50 or $25 par on JPS... Commons are not !!! bonds on debt!
Basically, JPS are IOU's for loans of money/ invested money!!!
And this is where a lot of board members do not understand legal contracts !
A legal contract between the company and bond holder for debt eg: $50 OR $25 in terms of the (LEGAL CONTRACT) WHICH IN THE CASE OF ALL Fannie and Freddie JPS ( NO CONVERSION ) to commons! Whatever the contract states before ANY investor buys these JPS is law !!!!!
No point buying FNMFO as if you to the conversion from that one to FNMAT or FNMAS or FMCKJ the price moves the same. So if FNMFO jumps $1000 the ratio between FNMFO to any of this JP is the same profit. FYI
Included were!
Freddie commons
Freddie JPS
Fannie JPS
Excluded !
Fannie commons
So this is what I’ve been saying all along!
When the Government is ready it’s going to sell off 79.9% of the companies ( Warrants) to the highest bidders!!
Collect the $$ and run!
New owners will R/S common to Oblivion! JPS will be at Par and Gov will still keep the SPSA for free as a commitment and collect the 10% every month or whatever they decide with new owners!
In this country we have:
The car industry Cartel
The Banking Cartel
The Fuel cartel
The Food Cartel
The money supply Cartel
Next up is the housing Cartel ! It’s coming !!
My belief is the court cases were there to bend the courts into the position where they are now and hedge funds can negotiate with Gov for a bigger Pierce of the pie!
I bet that’s why they wanted the warrant’s converted so the Gov can sell them to them all. They win as they get basement cheap shares and Gov wins as they get huge payout and looks good in the public eye
I’m know legal expert but the way it’s written in HERA one would assume so!!!! The warrants were there to recoup in case of receivership! Now if Gov does just that then they are triple dipping
I like the idea but what odds of getting real see before 2025 even if Trump wins !
I think if the Lambert trial is a win for shareholders the pps and price will reflect the payout so big jump coming possible
Do you believe after so many years that was there plan all along ! To make the courts approve what the Gov stole and prevent anyone from challenging it in any court while the greedy Government and Hedge Funds steel everything for themselves