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Well, that is better than Henrik's but a delayed endorsement still. We are all waiting on management to get the ship in order and become profitable. Gee, just maybe if we did not pay management so much for continuing losses then we would be profitable sooner, just a wild thought. Maybe a surcharge for high Nat. Gas prices, but not sure contractually we can do that and figure that was another stupid thing they agreed to with our 2 biggest clients just to stay in business a few years ago. I know we got name recognition, but what a cost. They must have just shaken their heads and said do you believe these guys? Hopefully, with lowered cost they too can be profitable one day.
So, this is part of VW? Will they be competition for Hyvia? Funny, I thought the CEO of VW was against using H2 along with Musk?
On the Ca. deal not sure how long that takes as just getting permits to build there takes forever with them.
Just heard exports from China down like 90% and ships full along with inventories. Looks more like a coming deflation soon with little demand. Yes, just like the Great Depression. This would force the Fed to back off hikes it seems and maybe as soon as Q1? So, if this happens and since we are down so much can we have that much further to go down knowing that the two laws passed by Congress will flood billions into our sector. We may end up a safe harbor in some rough seas. Granted sales of forklift fuel cells may not have the growth as fewer new store and warehouses will need to be built. Thoughts?
Yes, too bad he got his panties in a wad if anyone did not agree with his opinions. We all need to be more open minded about the realities of our situation with PLUG. We are a business formed to make a profit first and do good for the planet is an offshoot of our success and not the other way around.
The Euro is up over $1.05 now. This makes us even more competitive. I know back 2 years ago we talked about factories in Australia, and I think France. I wonder if either are still in the works. I remember a global map Plug put out with dots all over the US and Europe. Have we scaled back on those plans with the economy or are we delaying plans to see if demand is there? Seems demand in Europe is for sure with all the huge projects announced. I guess we see the massive Hub projects here after the first of the year announced. Will we get our share?
Yes, saw that one the other day. Seems like the projects coming out are mega sized. They will need larger electrolysers versus the small ones or banks and banks of them, which might be practical in a limited amount of space. It would be nice if we had some clarity on some of these and if we are involved. The hard thing without a technical background and at least 3 different types it is hard to tell who has the lead and best technology at the best price. Of course, everyone will say they have the best of this or that, but it comes down to who can get the products out at the best price, lowest cost to produce power, and can do the job. I do wonder about the deal with Twiggy. He was front and center the first symposium and nothing this time. After everything that has happened with Plug what they don't say scares me more than what they do say.
I think that is because there are more shorts in Plug and more individual shareholders that are somewhat upset with the current events. Both companies have talked a big game in the past and continued to come up a bit short. I remember the first time I saw Bloom was on 60 minutes. The founder was holding a small cube of a fuel cell stack saying that it could supply energy to a whole house. Well, have not seen that happen. Seems, like Andy his salesmanship also was ahead of reality. Like us runners say on a tough day, embrace the suck. Things almost always get better.
I also own a few shares of Bloom but bought at $26 and then they had the offering and market collapsed so like Plug down, but not as bad. Like I have stated before both should succeed. Bloom is more likely to be profitable sooner than Plug and watching each conference seems to have their act more together and more professional in my opinion. I did just see that FCEL can out with their Solid Oxide FC's so maybe competition? I do think we have a more diverse product offering, but maybe this could end up a disadvantage as we have too many balls in the air at once. If we cannot decrease cost in 2023 with the green H2 coming online and all the legislation in our favor, then we are in trouble for sure. I hope to see decreasing losses each quarter in 2023 as Nat. gas prices decrease and green H2 and our more efficient factory lowers cost. This is our last chance, in my opinion, to get it right.
I definitely think it is a technology with promise but would need more information and wonder how long it would take to get this rolling. I checked it out a while back and saw it was still private. Definitely worth seeing where it goes. So many new technologies and materials are being constantly made which makes any technology that builds a better mousetrap with the potential of being obsolete in time.
I think it was both creating a market and keeping us from bankruptcy. It gave us street cred and a high stock price to sell shares to keep us alive. It did not impress bankers at the time I think we paid 10% or more. I have 'hoped' since 2018 for being profitable and again in 2020 and then again in 2022. I'm to the point of Missouri, show me because words don't matter numbers do. Hope is not a good investment plan I heard and sadly that's all that Plug has left me. Hope and a huge unrealized loss. Hey, but management has gotten rich.
No, ones that have a good profit margin built in that we do not have to subsidize with stock or some huge discount. That only shows desperation and not dealing from strength. A deal just to do a dea may have been necessary back a few years ago to survive, but now it shows weakness.
Yes, many deals just seem to fall off the face of the earth and forgotten. I do think they did some other drone deal with an Israeli company not long ago. I do think, like many of us, Andy goes for the shiny object and needs to be held back from going in too many directions. I think this with the lack of profits and outrageous salaries at the top positions have hurt credibility. Funny they take no pay cuts when they have higher losses and the stock tanks but expect them when the stock increases. About time for a huge deal that is will provide profits quickly. My biggest fear is we are in the middle and attacked from above by the big companies and below by the startups that may make our technology too expensive. Hope we lock in as many huge deals now without any escape clauses.
No doubt, in my mind that if and it is a big if H2 and the cars can be priced equal to BEV's then in the long run FCEV's will win. Thing is both technologies will get better as the years go on. I'm still happy with my paid for 2004 Jeep that get me where I need to go that just got a new starter, which is less than one car payment.
Sorry to hear that you will not post any more. While I did not always agree with you, I thought your post of value. I had many of my post removed in the past also. You cannot let those that try and silence you win. The world needs more opinions and not one side only. We should try and not fall in love with any company because they do not care about us as shareholders because our votes are so small, they do not count. They only care about us if we are going to sue them. Management takes care of themselves first and we are after thoughts. They want us to stay in the game. The big boys with algos, dark pools and front running have rigged the game. We all need to speak up!
Well, if they can use iron versus rare earths and produce H2 in abundance on site for a fraction of what we can then they would not need our expensive electrloysers and H2 would they? So, unless we could beat the cost to the client in head-to-head competition we would lose. Seems like common sense to me. Again, they have to be able to scale this and do large trials, so we are a step ahead at this point.
BTW last of my 3 post.
Not really. He's not the only cause, but you have to admit he's following the Progressives agenda to a tee. He does not want any new drilling, fracking or coal in the US. Instead of an all of the above he's pushing a my way or the highway agenda. This is short sighted and not how a proper transition should be done to cause the least amount of harm to the economy. You may disagree and believe the world is ending like many alarmists, but in almost 68 years on this earth I've heard it all before and if you follow the money the truth is obvious. Yes, and I also want to clean planet for my grandchildren, and we are getting there as the air and water is much cleaner than in the 60' and 70's in the US.
If it works and can be scaled that would potentially wipe out most of our business, it seems. Not sure how long or if it works out of the lab.
We are just one of many in this space and as noted a small fry compared to the top 5 companies when looking at the total market cap. If we do not hustle to get things going, we could fall behind as these larger companies put together much larger projects. At the same time nimbler starts up technology companies nip at our heels. Sometimes those that pave the way do not succeed or are gobbled up. We are beholden to Walmart and Amazon for our future, but how long will they support us if a lower price can be had for H2? They can play us like a fiddle as they have in the past. Do you think they care if we make much or any profit as long as we stay in business to service them? Anyway, last post. Looking forward to seeing what happens in 2023 with the two bills roll out contracts and see how many we are involved with.
Yes, because of pollution and the EPA along with fracking making Nat. gas a competitive and cleaner alternative. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ldEZtPpz7ZU Again, words matter.
Come on man. Biden has said numerous times he would put coal companies out of business. No reason to have oil produced overseas if we can do it here and cleaner and create American jobs or do you prefer it done overseas to a government that is Communist? I thought we were the leader in Green H2? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-10-green-hydrogen-companies-131200638.html Heck we are not in the top 5!
Yes, they are, and one thing noted was lengthy time to get things done. Also, demand is down and projected to go lower with Covid. Then you have electric cars. And yet Biden just approved Venezuela to drill with Chevron. Why give business to an enemy?
Excuse me, I think you may be wrong there. Try getting any permit to build a new refinery in the US. I don't think it would be allowed and the regulation to slow walk it like with nuclear makes the investment near impossible to complete.
Yes, and Biden just approved drilling in Venezuela by Chevron. You cannot make this stuff up. Amazingly stupid and Anti-American!
last post for me. Since when did Hyvia start producing cars at Latham? I must have missed that or are you talking about fuel cell units that will be shipped to France and put in the cars. Are we even sure all the fuel cells going into the cars are from Plug and not contracted out with another Fc maker in Europe?
I doubt it probably just a slip up with some sleep deprivation unlike the President. I just feel Andy see himself as a dreamer and savior of the world type. While we all need dreamers at some point a realist needs to be in place to make sure the company is focused on making profits and not chase every shiny object. They also need to be good stewards of the money they spend and that includes compensation.
Funny he said 1000 by 2030. I knew he meant 100,000, but only 800 from a recent 1000 in 2023. I wonder how many we have to produce too actually be profitable. Think we need more a of a pragmatist than a dreamer at this point. He laid a track and now we need a hands-on leader that puts profits and shareholders first in my opinion.
Strange we are doing business with Nel when we got their original engineers a few years back when they got out of the FC business. Wonder why we did not get this or take this business?
Thanks for the updates!
I know some of you follow hiring. With all the layoffs and freezes going on with tech companies have you seen any reduction in the hiring frenzy at Plug or is it still as robust as ever?
Without a doubt profit should come first, but Andy is so loyal to Amazon and Msft. you know they will come first. Now it would be nice to get some agreements in hand with some major truck stops or manufactures in place to coincide with the rollout of trucks in the next few years so that the chicken and egg are hatched at the same time.
So, if Plug produced more than enough green H2 now they would not sell it to NASA if they could make a profit? Chrisp, I think you have a point, but we do not have the supply at this point and if we did and could make more money supplying NASA we would. I think first dibs is our own supply to bring down the cost of having to buy it now. After that it will go to customers and the highest bidder with the longest-term contract to lock in profits. I just hope we price it properly to make a profit and can adjust for future increases and not give it away as we have in the past.
Most likely because the supply of Green H2 is not ready yet I suspect and like Plug you have to go to where the supply is now until green is ready.
On another note, I had an article about Toyota's Class 8 truck's, at the LA port, that has been undergoing trials since 2019. They have been very successful and will be going into production.
Yes, that Amazon deal. Not sure how profitable that will be and if we again, gave away the store, at shareholders expense with the warrants. I guess if the big boys are waiting and allowing us to be the guinea pig that buys us some time and who knows with the tax credit, we are at least reducing our cost and hopefully edging closer to becoming profitable. We still will have a leg up on these guys with timing and for customers that need other products like forklifts and in the future other products we can increase our sales.
I'm guessing it will come down to what competition is doing Jack and who gives the most to get the deal. Like I said it opens things up and the one that has a value-added proposition would have an advantage in my opinion. On a pure Green H2 deal only it would come down to price and service and who can be first to market. We may have an advantage at this point assuming get our plants up and running before the competition, but the big boys like Air products will be tough competition for sure.
So, right off the bat Andy says they will have to share the tax credit to get business so we cannot rely on the credit to put as much money back into our pocket as some surmised. I see this as an area that we might have the upper hand in some situations where we get into horse trading since we have the whole value chain. I can see deals like we will grant X amount of the credit if you use our tanks, transportation, service, and other products potentially.
Plants of 500 tons a day. That is huge, but melds to what I've read recently saying that small suppliers may go bankrupt as bigger plants take over the business.
Wow, Roberto actually got back to me. First time since the lawsuits over accounting. Hi Steve – and do feel free to reach out to me directly.
Couple of items this to note in response to two articles – attached are some pictures from COP27 so check the background
FFI Fortescue: Our movement in the partnership is ongoing, and we are working with them on the Gibson project as planned, and working through details and specifics on the JV.
Fertiglobe: We have shipped 10MW already, with plans to ship another 5-10MW by year end. Not only is the 100MW project still in process as was previously announced months ago, we have ongoing conversations for additional electolyzer opportunities with Fertiglobe.
N.B. The article regarding Orascom refers to a spokesman at Scatec. Plug’s contractual agreement for electorlyzer is between Plug and Fertiglobe, not Scatec who is a shareholder of the consortium.
This was recent I thought. If false, he should be sued or at least made to retract the article and banned from ever writing in regard to Plug.