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A person on the other board always mentions FSLR. Well. they have almost 6 times less shares than us and a market cap close to 22 Billion. They trade at $203 a share. They did 2.6 Billion last year in revenue. That means we would likely have to do about $15 Billion in revenue to hit that mark if equivalent. So, maybe in a perfect world we hit that by when 2030? Just have to make it to 75 and with inflation won't mean half as much.
Crude oil demand down and at $67 a barrel now. This shows a slowdown and while good for inflation probably shows either recession is continuing or about to start depending how you view things and through what window. Rates to come down by July. Question for anyone. With the IRA and Hub delas to start this summer will this be a perfect storm for us like Covid was to boost sales or will we be in a recession and no one despite the credit and incentives be willing or able to get capital to start these large projects and purchases?
And Keynesian economics has been a proven failure and yet we still do it and have more inflation. How about a simple idea that has been proven to work. Spend and live within your means. It works for families; businesses and it will work for nations. Politicians and the FED trying to socially engineer is what has messed up the works.
Funny, I find it very hard after reading this to trust management. They seem to rely on required risk statement to say, "Well we just told you we were a highly risky stock"! So, like, what more do you want and at the same time say how great we are and saving the planet. It is like being a great world citizen is #1 and having happy employees#2 and selling products is #3 and somewhere making a profit comes in. The buses in Korea were to start rolling by now in SK. Have you heard or seen them? Sorry, I have little faith anymore with PLUG and want proof of what they say and do are the same thing. They have failed the transparency test too many times and only reply when found out or caught like little kids with their finger in the pie. They need to be reminded they work for the shareholders and not Captain Planet.
So, if the date of the prospectus was in 8\22 why are we only seeing it now and who knew about this is advance? Maybe this is why management held off buying shares as they knew any large sale would put downward pressure on the stock price? How many shorts knew about this and maybe that is why they were so cocky we would go down? How many of the 56 million shares have been sold and when? Looks to me this was just open to abuse shareholders and should have been disclosed as soon as it came out. So, we bear the cost of sales of the securities but get nothing for it. They take a major hit also, which makes one wonder if they need cash that bad or feel they have too much invested or lost faith in PLUG. Is the guy from SK still on the BOD?
Not sure what is going on. Big stock buys showing up but price not moving so expect dark pool deals and large blocks changing hands. Heard it could be SK? I know one thing for sure the confidence in Andy and Paul is at a low even worse than the accounting debacle. No insider buying and confidence they meet any of their projections at this point after last quarters miss. Heck, you don't even have an idea if any deal actually happens now or delayed and won't find out from management unless an analyst asks or you can find it on a site somewhere. Transparency is horrible and Roberto is useless. How much longer do they deserve our loyalty??
Interesting things lining up like the late 70-80 period. We had a huge commodity boom at that time. Prices of gas and oil, gold and silver, copper, uranium had huge moves and are priced at a discount to stocks. This maybe a rare time to get huge returns over the next few years. This is happening as the dollar goes down in value and China reopens. Definitely worth some study.
I have some gold stock and a small amount of foreign stock that were up early and then down and going back up. Gold almost up $50 today!
FED is having a closed-door meeting today. After these banks going under you can almost guarantee to stop any panic, they will pause any rate increases to let the dust settle and do no more harm. This should calm the markets and provide a run up. The bad thing is unless we control cost inflation will be sticky and it might be a repeat of the 70's with stagflation which really was bad to live through when I was in college and getting out in 1977 for jobs. I'm worried more with China, Russia, and Iran getting together. I'm worried about China taking our place in the world as the superpower and us allowing it to happen. The world has become a scary place and smells our weakness and always turns to the strongest perceived nation. This is looking more like pre WWII.
Increasing taxes and 80,000 IRS agents is a very bad move. It will slow the economy and jobs. The agents will have to harass people that cannot afford an expensive CPA or lawyer to defend them and pay fines or risk losing their property. If you want a police state to live under this is what you do. Sadly, the best way to get rid of tax cheats is a flat tax, but then they could not socially engineer people.
Lower interest rates will spur more spending and more inflation. You can only get it down by killing demand and that will drive down prices. How do you drive down demand. You raise the prices and people cut back or you lower incomes where people cannot afford anything. Using China to flood us with cheap goods had worked, but with us having issues with them(understandably), we are bringing industry home or changing some to more friendly places that will make goods at a higher price. The other route is more robotics and innovation or increase productivity, which has gone down. Like him or not Trump had the economy humming before covid hit. We need to get back to freer markets. Having the Government under control of everything we do and buy and micromanaging us is the wrong way for the US to go unless you want to be more like Cina or a third world country..
Assuming Andy was not blowing smoke and we have a significant part in all the HUBS then once they get announced we should get a huge bounce in the stock price. I think they said what July before the selection is done?
So, saw an explanation of the share offering mentioned. It has not been done. This was a filing that said it could be done in case of bankruptcy and was for banker. It just said in case we get into problems we could issue these shares to avoid going bankrupt. So, yes, they could issue these shares, but have not as of now.
Do any of these deals really matter if we have no idea when we will actually be in the black? For a 'leader', in the green H2 area, why do we have no pricing power? We have grown employee counts a huge amount plus added factories and projects and yet we have eaten H2 cost and as far as I can tell not passed along our increased cost as have most suppliers. I think this is because Walmart and Amazon, and others would just tell us to shove it, as we are told what they will pay and hope to make it up in either reduced cost of production or green H2 contracts in the future. Problem is our cost with inflation is trumping the savings at this point. I'm not sure where the light is at the end of this tunnel and not sure Andy and Paul have a grasp of it either. I think this last restatement and fail is proof they are in over their head. I fear we have another large loss, but not as bad assuming all that business moved forward actually is booked Q1. If not, God help us!
And how is Plug involved or are they?
I get no responses from Roberto lately. Why even have a position when you ignore the shareholders. It seems many companies are coming out with engines that burn H2 with no fuel cells at all. If they are successful there will be massive amount of fuel needed to run equipment and vehicles. Maybe, despite the ineptness of Plug they succeed just due to the volume of business out there? I just wonder if these guys ever make a real profit and when and that is something they avoid talking about at all cost.
I thought material and substantial information like this was to be made public by the company as part of being transparent and under their Code of Ethics. Why do we have to hunt for everything? This just makes any deal like todays suspect. Will they ever happen and why did it not happen?
Yes, hit 68 the first of the year and my sister's comment was I was 3 years past my expiration date. Plug is just using the anticipation. of a big payout (or in my case breakeven) to keep me alive a bit longer. Maybe, I should be more grateful. Just kidding I'm as frustrated as much or more than everyone here.
So how long if ever will the BOD do something about the poor performance.? How much longer until management and the BOD do something to support the stock price? How much longer are Institutions going to hold and buy PLUG and the same for everyday shareholders when there are other choices out there? I feel our time is running out to get our act together and that shareholders have been more than patient and put up with enough garbage that some are likely in violation of the Code of ethics for their business.
This is interesting- I wonder how this plays out with Hyvia? Looks good for Class 8.
Yep, Jammy you are a newbie and have not seen the lies, over promises, failures to disclose pertinent information, the accounting mess and all the stock issues that were not needed but happened, etc. This last miss is part of a long line of screw ups. Not sure if Max Pain is right and if there is something up. Max Pain shows $14 for this week or about where we are, but next week it shoots up to $17.50, but then heads down to $13.50 in a few weeks. Not sure if the market does another small buys up , short and dump like they have been doing. Should be fun to watch.
Credibility and trust are at an all-time low in my opinion regarding Andy and Paul. What are the consequences of their poor performance? What will they do to repair the damage? I think they believe everyone will continue to buy their line and projections forever like we have no other choice where to vest our money. I don't know if they even care about the small shareholder or fear any consequences to their missing repeated revenue projection, increasing losses and many issues during they admitted to production. The lack of transparency is still an issue. The BOD seems as inept as management as they have done nothing either. Can anyone say when and if they will ever be in the black and how much revenue it will take to do so? While they are driven to sell product, you can't stay in business forever selling at a loss. Is it just me or does anyone else feel they feed you enough to get you to stay just another year and keep moving the goal post out further? If I'd known, it would take this long I would have sold a long time ago or never put in the amount I did.
Commissioning and commercialization of the Ga plant 2022 to mid 2024. So, when does the plant start creating a revenue stream? Does it start when it supposedly starts producing Green H2 in March or April or is it in mid 2024. I just found the use of these words confusing and wondered how they related to actually making money.
I really feel shareholders have been misled by Andy and while I never had thought of a class action against him and the company it is looking more justified at this point. There seems to be nothing being done as to their compensation, options or any job losses for poor performance. We have no clue as to when or even they get in the black and profits seem secondary to saving the earth. It is looking more like Atlas Shrugged every day and he's not the hero, but the part of the political left elites that believe rules are for fools and you get what we get peons. Just disgusted and mad at myself for risking my hard-earned money. Well, again, why I have life insurance as a just in case at this point. Let's hope for a miracle that they get their act together or the BOD steps in.
From what I read they used H2 in half the plane and jet fuel in the other half and did not use the H2 pods in this test. So, when, if successful in all their attempts and getting the infrastructure set up do you expect this to bring in revenue? What maybe 2028-2030? I find it hard to get excited about anything with Plug anymore. Sadly, this used to be fun to own and now it just provides depression and remorse.
Well, crap! Once again without fail they fail to deliver even on reductions, which they should have anticipated and guided way down to beat. Their credibility has gone to crap. Stupidly I held and now suffering yet more balance sheet losses and forced to sell one position I had in one account. My own fault for believing they had their act somewhat together. Given that they are apparently over their skis and the learning curve is a lot harder than they apparently thought setting up a new factories, new products and timing of delivers to clients not yet ready because they also have issues. So, what really bothered me on the list I did not see the Ca. plant. Has that been nixed, delayed or what. Even bigger Paul said 10% margins, but -.24 cents I assume that earning for 2023. Sorry, that sucks. So, when exactly are we to become a profitable company and if they cannot do it with 1.4 billion of revenue when can they? Will, it be 2025, 2028,2030 never? Had I had any idea it would take forever I'd sold. I feel that Andy and his gang has sugar coated reality. They put pedestal customers in front of us that may get announced. That has become meaningless at this point. While the letter was more transparent, I just don't know if I can believe anything they say. How can I trust a 2023 target if they cannot even get one right in a quarter, much less one in 2025-2030. What I want to know is when will we show a profit and by that I mean in the black!
I'm in hopes they brought down numbers in January so they could beat them and at least look like they under promised and over delivered. If they do worse than the restated estimates, then we are in trouble and so should be management. I hope this is not the case along with no more shares being issued. I'd like updates on all the projects we have going, and which still exist and are they on schedule, etc. I'd also like them to restate the would-be OI break even by year end. I do not expect big news as they never do give us that at earnings. Just give me the facts and be transparent.
Agreed, been here a long time and it has always been next quarter and then next year. Time to shitake or get off the pot.
I thought Andy or Paul said we had no debt at the last call?
Here's another thought. Andy sure has sounded very confident about the future and I'm guessing about the $100 a share price. What would make him so positive when everything going on in the economy is pretty terrible right now and we have had to pull back on numbers the last 2 quarters. Is Andy holding 4 aces in his hand or just bluffing us?
Is it feasible that Andy's slip of the tongue about a Tesla mention is actually true? One tie might be they need extra power for their charging stations. The second thing is they are about to have a huge amount of competition they never had before now in the EV space. How could he get ahead of the next wave and compete with Toyota, who already has a head start in the FCEV race? Could it be conceivable that Plug and Tesla could be working on a FCEV car of the future? There is still the mystery Apple Car out there also. They all might just be waiting for the infrastructure to build out before a launch.
Andy talked about buying a truck company, but then backed off. I wonder if they tried to buy Nikola or Hyzon and neither agreed? Nikola's earning were also off and they only delivered like 20 of the 120 trucks produced. I'm not sure, but maybe folks were waiting to get their tax incentives approved before ordering them.
Is that one of those 50\50 deals on the sale of H2?
This is not the same bus deal they had with Eidson Power in South Korea is it?
Interesting this is the second company they are using to add expertise to their engineering. You just have to hope they are making the right choices to stay ahead of the race. Andy only has a year or so if you count to the end of 2024 to get his big pay day, so time is running out to get the stock to $100 a share. Maybe they should consider a merger with Bloom. That way they cover both Oxide and PEM cells, and we can supply the green H2 to thier fuel cells.
Watching their 5\22 presentation and impact coatings sells solution and basically looks like they do R&D and let's clients test new technologies and coatings to increase performance. They can also do the coatings and can sell the machines to do so. Looks like we are trying to stay ahead of the game.
Just saw this one. What do you all make of it? https://hydrogen-central.com/plug-power-impact-coatings-sign-letter-intent-about-coating-services-for-electrolysis/
Interesting on the earnings announcement set for March 1st they mentioned robots. Have we ever discussed that?
Seems, like a much smaller deal than I thought it would be, but anything is better than nothing. I just don't see how we hit our revenue targets unless we hit on some large, sustained deals. I had thought by now data center deals would be ramping up and not a darn thing yet from anyone and that looked like the next BIG THING that would sustain the business for years to come. Has this stalled or are there better mousetraps?