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Why do we have to wait for Green H2 to come online to become profitable? Should not each unit be profitable by itself? If not, why should that piece of business be continued as is? If they have looked at the business model, as they should have by now, what could they have done to make it profitable? We were told that reduction of the fuel cell cost would make us profitable and yet it has not despite we were told a huge reduction in cost due to being more efficient and economies of scale. Were they not pricing the product correctly? Did they not increase prices to cover the increased cost of employees, cost of Natural gas etc.? So, now the replacement of Blue Hydrogen with Green is the answer, but we hear they will have to gift off some of the tax credit to maintain business. It just seems to me that we should have some pricing power as the leader in this space, but at the same time give away the store to get and maintain business. So, will this next fixed to replace Blue with Green the answer or just another promise from Andy that fails to deliver. With the price of Nat. Gas collapsing will there be a huge incentive to make the switch over by clients, except the ones doing so because of mandates. Anyone, that has been here as long as me might have the same questions if being honest with themselves and knows time is running short. We have the big boys with all the capital at one end and the new startups with new technology both yapping at our heels. If this new strategy fails to make us profitable then there will be trouble.
Jack, really? They illegally front run trades using high frequency trading all the time and it is allowed so why would you think that?
More likely hedge funds setting up illegals ladders and collapsing them to buy low and sell high again and again. With a crooked SEC they really don't care because they know that only the little kids that scam people get caught and made examples of while the Big Boy Mob does it daily and pays their tithe to the politicians and the game goes on the
to the detriment of the small guy. It is the same garbage year after year it has just gotten worse and the computer get better, AI, and going dark on most trades increased. We need a whole new market that has 100% transparency of all trades as they happen. No synthetic shares, no trades to bypass the 3 day closing rules, no dark pools, no front running. I sure some can add on to these.
Very aware, but so are most all tech stocks even Tesla is down as much as us. Amazon down 50%. The only big winner was oil stocks. The irony is just too much!
They are taking their sweet time on this. Not announced until this summer. I guess they want to get their contributions in before the 2024 election to see who gets the contracts. I hope the IRA business development moves faster.
Well, we need time anyway to get the H2 fueling stations up and running and Green H2 supplies. I agree a slow roll into 2025 then it heats up going into 2030.
Huge incentive to buy trucks in Ca. and NY now. I know they also want a national plan and tried to pass it, but it has not yet. More incentive to buy trucks in those states. I know part of the deal with Nikola was a H2 plant. How many of those will be needed to supply all the trucks? They are H2 hogs, so I expect quite a few plants will need to expand capacity. Along with that until the needs of supply are established our services of transport and cryogenics will be needed. How many other companies can supply the full Monty?
Merry Christmas I hope you are feeling better. It is a wonder how some people ask that you be open minded while theirs's closed.
I do wonder how many cycles and year the batteries last and how that compares to a diesel engine that can last 1 million miles or more. I wonder if the cost to maintain would cover the cost of a new battery?
Well, from what I could find online the cost of a NIKOLA truck is $270,000. If you are a $180,000 credit it cost you $90,000, which is much less than a conventional truck that might run $170,000. Since we supply the H2 that saves us money also, assuming we get the tax credit on that. These trucks have little maintenance cost so operations would be less costly. Deal is looking better already.
Yes, that was part of a P&D on MMTLP. That whole thing was fishy. From Finra allowing it to even trade, to Mangement pumping and selling to Hedge funds shorting and being bailed out to online promotions site scamming people. In my opinion all look complicit and that is probably why they will fry these kids running these pump and dump schemes like organized crime. Watch the big guys walk off with no problems.
great find! Went to YouTube and saw after minute 17 showing the door with information. So, maybe that is the tie in? We supply the H2 for Walmart. Now is we just sign a big deal with them like Amazon. I thought more likely it would be Amazon. Hoping we see a big deal announced soon with Walmart.
Maybe, but wondering who has been testing their trucks? I don't see that either Walmart or Amazon is from a Google search. Walmart was testing numerous options including Natural gas, electric and one fuel cell from Capacity out of Tx. I was hoping to find a tie in to one of our big partners. This could be a huge market for us eventually if we find the right partners.
Funny how many thought Hyzon would be the one and now we deal with Nikola. A bit risky with their past, but if Sandy Munro is right, they have a great truck. So, Toyota, Hyundai, Hyzon, Tesla and now Nikola look to be going after the class 8 market. Sure, there are others, but this may have forced our hand. Think about it. We start producing ton of Green H2, maybe more than the market is ready or willing to buy (as diesel prices are also coming down and a recession is looming). How do you assure there will be a market? Well, buying H2 hog class 8 FC trucks is one way. Add the credits on trucks from NY and $3\kg for H2 and it makes even more sense. On top of that you are testing the technology. If successful, the orders will flow and the transition out of diesel will go ahead. I know Congress was working on extra incentives on class 8 trucks, but I don't think it past yet. I expect states to start outlawing use of diesel trucks by probably 2035 and forcing the issue and then Congress will step in calling it The Food Secuity Transporation Act or something along those lines.
That would assume we have infrastructure at these H2 plants to fill class 8 trucks, but I was thinking long term with trucking throughout the US on major highways since the mention of Walmart and Amazon. They could not just fill class 8 trucks at the Fulfilment Centers like a forklift. This would not be sensible with all the centers. A better way is like with Truck Stops every few hundred miles down major highways good are transported.
I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. You are talking huge amount of Green H2 needing to be produced for a fleet of trucks, costly fueling stations that could handle class 8 trucks, and a big production of the trucks. This will take years to build out. Maybe if they get a commitment from the big customers, line up major fueling stations with truck stops across the major highways and get started now then it could be rolling by 2028-2030? Thing is to get increased funding we would need we would need commitments by our partners.
Just saw today that Amazon is closing a fulfillment center in Kennesaw, Ga.
I'd love to see the numbers on this deal. How much do we make of the sale of Green H2 and the equipment we are selling them? How much do the trucks cost us as we know they are what 2-3X more than a diesel truck. Do we get the $3\kg tax credit using our own Green H2 used to fuel the trucks. So many moving parts and risks in this deal. Nikola had its issues. Are they healthy now and will they make it as a company?
This could end up a great marriage, but it will take time to see how it comes out. I don't think this will do much for the stock price today.
I hope you are right but will believe it when I see it. So many years of promises to be profitable with the reduction of FC cost etc. Still the losses increased. I feel we have been dragged along as everyone made money but us because they knew what was really going on. I feel sorry for those that bought shares at $60-$75! I hope Andy and Paul have a reality check, but worry Andy has this by any means necessary attitude and just tries to appease the analyst. We do need a voice on the BOD. We need to be able to ask questions during the meeting just like the analyst. At least 3 per meeting. I hope with all the EU and US money being spent in this sector we can get our share. If we cannot make money with all this Government spending, we will never make it. Merry Christmas.
Yes, but just a very few months ago we were at $30 and now that is a 12-month estimate? Last year we were at what $46 and the year before $75. We sit at $15 so I find it hard to get excited. Sure a 100% gain looks great if you bought at $15, but when you bought those $2 billion at $60 or have a $45 average like me it stinks. 2023 looks to be a long, long year and most calling for either a mild repeating recession or a very deep one. I think we will continue to be pumped and dumped and controlled by traders once again, sadly. Maybe after 2-3 quarter of actual profits we will get some respect.
Wow, that is depressing. Guess the market will let us get to maybe $28-$30 before they dump us again? This will be a long road to recovery and BE for me at $45.
I agree, why are only insiders hearing material information? I thought this had to be given to all and not select people. This BS and another reason not to trust Andy. What else is he not telling us? Why are small shareholders treated like second class citizens?
Not necessarily, but possible. What about the Green H2 we use in house or for current clients. If there is no competition at the time and we beat the market, why should we give the credit away? Heck, we already gave huge warrants away. Is that not enough? I know Mr. Potter demands more of Mr. Bailey at the Savings and Loan, but about time Andy grew a pair.
Well, that is better than Henrik's but a delayed endorsement still. We are all waiting on management to get the ship in order and become profitable. Gee, just maybe if we did not pay management so much for continuing losses then we would be profitable sooner, just a wild thought. Maybe a surcharge for high Nat. Gas prices, but not sure contractually we can do that and figure that was another stupid thing they agreed to with our 2 biggest clients just to stay in business a few years ago. I know we got name recognition, but what a cost. They must have just shaken their heads and said do you believe these guys? Hopefully, with lowered cost they too can be profitable one day.
So, this is part of VW? Will they be competition for Hyvia? Funny, I thought the CEO of VW was against using H2 along with Musk?
On the Ca. deal not sure how long that takes as just getting permits to build there takes forever with them.
Just heard exports from China down like 90% and ships full along with inventories. Looks more like a coming deflation soon with little demand. Yes, just like the Great Depression. This would force the Fed to back off hikes it seems and maybe as soon as Q1? So, if this happens and since we are down so much can we have that much further to go down knowing that the two laws passed by Congress will flood billions into our sector. We may end up a safe harbor in some rough seas. Granted sales of forklift fuel cells may not have the growth as fewer new store and warehouses will need to be built. Thoughts?
Yes, too bad he got his panties in a wad if anyone did not agree with his opinions. We all need to be more open minded about the realities of our situation with PLUG. We are a business formed to make a profit first and do good for the planet is an offshoot of our success and not the other way around.
The Euro is up over $1.05 now. This makes us even more competitive. I know back 2 years ago we talked about factories in Australia, and I think France. I wonder if either are still in the works. I remember a global map Plug put out with dots all over the US and Europe. Have we scaled back on those plans with the economy or are we delaying plans to see if demand is there? Seems demand in Europe is for sure with all the huge projects announced. I guess we see the massive Hub projects here after the first of the year announced. Will we get our share?
Yes, saw that one the other day. Seems like the projects coming out are mega sized. They will need larger electrolysers versus the small ones or banks and banks of them, which might be practical in a limited amount of space. It would be nice if we had some clarity on some of these and if we are involved. The hard thing without a technical background and at least 3 different types it is hard to tell who has the lead and best technology at the best price. Of course, everyone will say they have the best of this or that, but it comes down to who can get the products out at the best price, lowest cost to produce power, and can do the job. I do wonder about the deal with Twiggy. He was front and center the first symposium and nothing this time. After everything that has happened with Plug what they don't say scares me more than what they do say.
I think that is because there are more shorts in Plug and more individual shareholders that are somewhat upset with the current events. Both companies have talked a big game in the past and continued to come up a bit short. I remember the first time I saw Bloom was on 60 minutes. The founder was holding a small cube of a fuel cell stack saying that it could supply energy to a whole house. Well, have not seen that happen. Seems, like Andy his salesmanship also was ahead of reality. Like us runners say on a tough day, embrace the suck. Things almost always get better.
I also own a few shares of Bloom but bought at $26 and then they had the offering and market collapsed so like Plug down, but not as bad. Like I have stated before both should succeed. Bloom is more likely to be profitable sooner than Plug and watching each conference seems to have their act more together and more professional in my opinion. I did just see that FCEL can out with their Solid Oxide FC's so maybe competition? I do think we have a more diverse product offering, but maybe this could end up a disadvantage as we have too many balls in the air at once. If we cannot decrease cost in 2023 with the green H2 coming online and all the legislation in our favor, then we are in trouble for sure. I hope to see decreasing losses each quarter in 2023 as Nat. gas prices decrease and green H2 and our more efficient factory lowers cost. This is our last chance, in my opinion, to get it right.
I definitely think it is a technology with promise but would need more information and wonder how long it would take to get this rolling. I checked it out a while back and saw it was still private. Definitely worth seeing where it goes. So many new technologies and materials are being constantly made which makes any technology that builds a better mousetrap with the potential of being obsolete in time.
I think it was both creating a market and keeping us from bankruptcy. It gave us street cred and a high stock price to sell shares to keep us alive. It did not impress bankers at the time I think we paid 10% or more. I have 'hoped' since 2018 for being profitable and again in 2020 and then again in 2022. I'm to the point of Missouri, show me because words don't matter numbers do. Hope is not a good investment plan I heard and sadly that's all that Plug has left me. Hope and a huge unrealized loss. Hey, but management has gotten rich.
No, ones that have a good profit margin built in that we do not have to subsidize with stock or some huge discount. That only shows desperation and not dealing from strength. A deal just to do a dea may have been necessary back a few years ago to survive, but now it shows weakness.
Yes, many deals just seem to fall off the face of the earth and forgotten. I do think they did some other drone deal with an Israeli company not long ago. I do think, like many of us, Andy goes for the shiny object and needs to be held back from going in too many directions. I think this with the lack of profits and outrageous salaries at the top positions have hurt credibility. Funny they take no pay cuts when they have higher losses and the stock tanks but expect them when the stock increases. About time for a huge deal that is will provide profits quickly. My biggest fear is we are in the middle and attacked from above by the big companies and below by the startups that may make our technology too expensive. Hope we lock in as many huge deals now without any escape clauses.
No doubt, in my mind that if and it is a big if H2 and the cars can be priced equal to BEV's then in the long run FCEV's will win. Thing is both technologies will get better as the years go on. I'm still happy with my paid for 2004 Jeep that get me where I need to go that just got a new starter, which is less than one car payment.
Sorry to hear that you will not post any more. While I did not always agree with you, I thought your post of value. I had many of my post removed in the past also. You cannot let those that try and silence you win. The world needs more opinions and not one side only. We should try and not fall in love with any company because they do not care about us as shareholders because our votes are so small, they do not count. They only care about us if we are going to sue them. Management takes care of themselves first and we are after thoughts. They want us to stay in the game. The big boys with algos, dark pools and front running have rigged the game. We all need to speak up!
Well, if they can use iron versus rare earths and produce H2 in abundance on site for a fraction of what we can then they would not need our expensive electrloysers and H2 would they? So, unless we could beat the cost to the client in head-to-head competition we would lose. Seems like common sense to me. Again, they have to be able to scale this and do large trials, so we are a step ahead at this point.
BTW last of my 3 post.