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Thanks, Jersey.
This seems now like a more complicated program than what I understood before so I'll be continuing to read through this information.
It looks like cotton posted a very real concern about the guaranty of subordinate debentures as they relate to a more general, universal guaranty of Senior issues and issues in subsidiaries.
This is why my DD included repayment in bankruptcy precedents which are documented in the case of CTs.
So, IMO, for the LBHI not to pay the CTs would be similar to a health insurer who states they would pay for cancer treatment or a pre-existing condition and then declining to do so after the fact.
FWIW
Found the LBT Balance Sheet.
They are likely all sweep accounts. I thought I saw somewhere that when they filed bankruptcy, all asset balances "migrated" to LBHI, a significant amount of claims in LBHI, leaving LBT without any ability to perform and a fired Board. They are also a "Non-Debtor," just a Treasury Ops administrator, apparently.
So, what are they going to sell? Claims from a hold in bankruptcy? Where are the assets that show the ability to pay?
LEHMAN BROTHERS TREASURY CO BV
BALANCES AS AT 7th OCTOBER 2008 DRAFT UNAUDITED
BALANCE SHEET
Cash 70.613
Tax Prepaid 722.967
Intercompany Receivable
Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc 32.651.954.362
Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (UK Branch) 70.364.928
Lehman Brothers Asia Holdings 21.839
Lehman Brothers Special Finance Inc 445.419
Lehman Brothers International Europe 341.724 32.723.128.272
Intercompany Derivative Receivable/Payable
LEHMAN BROTHERS COMMERCIAL CORPORATION ASIA 145.092
LEHMAN BROS SPECIAL FINANCE INC 232.308.511
LEHMAN BROTHERS COMMODITY SERVICES (121.214)
LEHMAN BROTHERS FIN NED ANTILLES (238.702)
LEHMAN BROTHERS FINANCE SA (34.578.107)
LEHMAN BROTHERS HLDINGS INC BRANCH (30.760)
LEHMAN BROTHERS INTERNATIONAL EUROPE 318.440 197.803.260
Intercompany Payable
Lehman Brothers Inc (449.395)
Lehman Brothers Limited (3.299.387)
Lehman Brothers Europe Limited (814.607)
Lehman Brothers Bankhaus AG (281.710)
Lehman Brothers Holdings PLC 0
Lehman Brothers Finance Japan (29.725) (4.874.826)
Intercompany Derivative Payable 0
Bank Overdraft (481.259)
Other Creditors (92.588.320)
FAS adjustments timing difference
Debt (32.604.207.177)
Credit Spread adjustment- US GAAP
Interest on Issued Debt (119.271.766)
Net Assets 100.301.765
Shareholders Funds
Capital (2.545.054)
Prior Year Reserves (77.412.272)
2008 Retained earnings - ex Credit Spread adjustment (20.344.439)
Credit Spread adjustment- US GAAP
(100.301.764)
0
Dutch GAAP
$
The information on this page is provided to you on an "as is" and "as available" basis and may contain errors or omission. To the fullest extent permitted by law, the Bankruptcy Trustee does not provide or
make any warranty or representation of any kind, whether express or implied in respect of the Financial Information, its accurateness or completeness. The Financial Information cannot in any way be relied
upon to calculate any possible claim that you may have against LBT's estate (boedel). A general disclaimer containing, amongst other things, an exclusion of any liability of the Bankruptcy Trustee for
any damage as a result of (the use of) the Financial Information is applicable. Please consult the entire disclaimer at www.lehmanbrotherstreasury.com/fd.html.
The legalese I was looking for is the following from the LEHNQ prospectus pg. 13, under "Certain Terms of Subordinated Debentures - Option to Defer Interest Payments":
"During any deferral period, neither Holdings or any of its subsidiaries will be permitted to:
• pay a dividend or make any other payment or distribution on Holdings' capital stock;
• redeem, purchase or make a liquidation payment on any of Holdings' capital stock;
• make an interest, principal or premium payment, or repay, repurchase or redeem, any of Holdings'(S-13) debt securities that rank equal with or junior to the subordinated debentures; or
• make any guarantee payment with respect to any guarantee by Holdings of debt securities of any of its subsidiaries, if the guarantee ranks equal to or junior to the subordinated debentures."
The junior, subordinated debentures assets of the CTs are an LBHI claim, likely a Subordinated Class 10A claim, Class 4B Senior Affiliate Guarantee or Class 5 Senior 3rd Party Guarantee Claim. One of either of them.
No distributions have been made to Class 10A but they don't identify guarantee claims.
Class 4B has received 35% & Class 5 has received 28% approximately but it isn't clear if the distributions are to any subordinated claims.
Does anyone know for a fact the Class of the subordinated debentures with guarantees claims class?
In terms of the UK subsidiary ECAPS or payments to non-debtor LBT note holders, it seems the LEHNQ prospectus restricts these payments ". . . if the guarantee ran equal to or junior to the subordinated debentures".
And, if they are non-guarantee claims, how can they be anything but junior to the subordinated debentures with guarantee?
Are we now looking at a special event? An "Investment Company"?
If the subordinated debentures are either Class 4B or 5, haven't they been paid distributions in some restricted funds account already?
After re-reading the prospectus this afternoon and not finding the exact legalese I was looking for, I'm not 100% sure of the ECAPS re-instatement procedures and their implications for the CTs.
All of the legalese is getting fought over so we will have to wait to see what gets filed and processed by SRM for ECAPS in an overseas subsidiary.
Where can we see the LBT balance sheet?
mojo
75 min to Court Date: Complaint of SRM Filings
Thanks, cotton.
I get the percentages distributed and the aggregate class claims list.
Where is an LBT balance sheet?
$12.5B for 57% of the claims? That's the price? I get the valuation.
Why do they loot Lehman to pay down debt classes?
It was an LBHI Chp 11 and Chp 7 in LBI only.
The distributions were made without any matching funds by the Debtors.
And, haven't many of the Debtors been sitting at the Fed funds window as counterparties for 0% money over the years while our CTs trade with distributions re-allocated past their deferment period to higher classes?
All while Marsal claimed it was to be resolved in 2010.
It's difficult to believe they let this go on.
Regards.
By George, cotton, you've got to be kneeling in the bushes!
So, you think they can sell 57% of $34.5B of non-guaranteed LBHI claims in LBT for how much?
Do you have an LBT balance sheet and a price?
You can cut & paste it here.
Regards.
mojostradomus
Thanks, wayne!
The operating loss & capital gain (loss) discussion is interesting but could continue "ad nauseum" as many topics on this board.
Hoping for a profitable restructuring and settlement in the near future.
It is interesting to understand the $55B correlates to the outstanding equity amounts at the common highs.
But, maybe many had known this.
GL
Correction:
Common @ $66
toogood,
CT/Preferred - $9.73B
Common @ $60 = $45.474
Total - $55.204B
Aren't those the capital losses you're referring to?
Heard back.
Following up.
We'll see.
I think FM now have another great one in Mike Campbell from Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers.
Link:
That has been our belief for 9 years, Jersey.
I just filed. Done.
Now, they can solve whatever the issues are with the SEC that can use the complaint in the accounting.
Included the possible "Affiliate" misrepresentation Ricky seems to believe occurred in addition to other repayment options and asset accounting that were not processed or divulged in Court documents.
I could follow up with FINRA and might because I don't think the brokerage community has been particularly helpful.
You're wrong in one regard, Jersey. No, I don't know how this $hit rolls.
I don't know how "Affiliate" would have differentiated classification. I don't know why a matching debt repayment scheme would have affected the outcome. I don't know where the $50B+ assets are for LAMCO now that the restructuring plans changed supposedly. And, I don't know everyone that is now involved.
Regards.
My broker wants me to file with the SEC not FINRA.
Have you filed with the SEC, Jersey?
Has anyone filed a FINRA complaint?
It's been 10 years.
Marsal promised 2 years.
Prospectus provides for a 5 year deferral period.
It has been 10 years.
What has this turned into?
Who is running it now?
stox,
I appreciate your comments.
I don't use alcohol, tobacco or drugs.
The THC element in mj is a big problem and always has been.
It amazes me how many are arguing for controlled substances and I don't want the Banks involved.
But, since the days of Jardines in Asia companies and businesses have been extorting people and their addictions for money and markets.
Use El Chapo's billions to build the Wall? Fine with me.
Open oil & gas markets in Iran & Pakistan and other Countries that finance terrorism & hate the US? Not so fast.
Same with Uranium & other nuclear materials.
Good luck.
Good news: It wasn't Lehman laundering drug money!
Link: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/avinash-tharoor/banks-cartel-money-laundering_b_4619464.html
jersey,
Are you trying to get something started?
cotton cooled my jets a little.
You seem to be reaching for the gas can.
mojostradamus
Sounds good.
Thanks cotton.
cotton,
I asked you a question.
What will you answer?
They had a 20 Quarter deferment that has turned into 38.
But, they've wanted to re-write history now for years, lawlessly throwing people under the bus.
The fact is they couldn't qualify for the $55B in NOLs without trading an equity so they needed us and kept us trading.
Yep!
Barclay's didn't want them because of this stuff.
And, LBHI couldn't do anything with their subs with this hanging over their head because they couldn't go to the 0% discount window with Jaime who was doing collateral calls on them.
Yet we trade.
What am I missing JOV-ster?
I'm glad to see this work done.
There may be more but this is a lot of work.
Everyone else on the Street, however, was given loans at near 0% interest rates over the last 10 years to wind out positions like that or granted permission to service those areas in main street retail ops.
So, Lehman couldn't square it, couldn't reclaim foreclosure rights in the mortgage loans and paid for the Valukas opinion to position debt holders above equity holders with $55B in NOLs who are hanging out to dry.
A number of other articles state errors of the Valukas opinion, including analysis of the REPO market that ALL Lehman counterparties were participating in simultaneously, and went on to say there was enough equity to cover the debt.
So, we'll see.
It is likely most decent if LBHI would arrive at a deal with UK LBH to pay what is necessary to re-instate the CTs overseas and let them operate without any further restrictions in LBHI BK & Plan Administration.
LBHI, WGM et al & A&M with the BK Plan Administrators have looted this long enough.
LBHI could have asked for matching debt contributions from debtholders in absolute priority positions but they didn't in order to loot a Chp 11 in the States and fire 25,000 employees.
Who is now at LBHI HQ worth saving? They've had their chances and have blown it all.
Good luck.
Have you filed a complaint with FINRA & the SEC, cotton?
Thank you, jersey.
What does it matter?
jersey,
He's the "Clinton Dossier" LBHI has used to loot Lehman to the nubs.
Maybe we'll get things going in our direction now.
mojo
cotton,
What does UK LBH do to distribute to ECAPS shareholders?
What do they offer to LBHI & the Courts to get approval for distribution?
What would happen if the CTs get re-instated by UK LBH?
What terms are required for the CTs to be assumed by UK LBH to be re-instated in the UK?
mojo
JPM, AMZN, Berkshire?
Does this have anything to do with LBHI NOLs?
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/amazon-jpmorgan-berkshire-team-health-220923780.html
Hoping for the best.
mojo
Seems like Credit Suisse should give the Courts what they need to resolve it which likely isn't in their favor.
By the way, is everyone getting back from the globalist conference in Davos where they were screwing over Lehman on the tax payer's dime for 10 years?
Figures.
Complete A$$&o1es . . .
mojo
jimmy,
Isn't Joe Stocks an insider at A&M?
If you ask me, he's on the way out after looting Lehman to his friends and doesn't want to be implicated for malfeasance and misappropriation in a CT lawsuit.
Good luck.
I'm with you.
mojo
I think you mean Blue Horseshoe.
$248M to pay off $2B+ in debt?
Who wouldn't dream of that?
mojo
So, subsidiaries overseas with 150% returns are now giving everything to LBHI?
Is the US going to war with England over a few billion?
Amazing.
LBHI should pay the junior debt to the CT as well as some of the cumulative payments due and let the UK sub re-instate the CTs while the UK pays their own paper they've re-registered.
Does LBHI have the decency to do that?
mojo
jersey,
I don't either.
The Institutions have their reasons for doing what they're doing.
I worked in a subsidiary of a major NY Institution and, after I left, the Institution walked over to another service provider with their contracts and wound down their own subsidiary, my former employer.
Stuck one of our attorney's in an office and wound down all the residuals.
Employees had no reason to think their employer was coming back.
Lehman had a shot at re-structuring and getting back on the market.
But, it looks like the only hope will be coming from the UK.
How are they going to do it from there?
I don't know.
mojo
Twisting in the wind, jersey.
I don't know who will take us into the fold without the NOLs.
Waiting until all the screwing over is finished.
CTs continue to trade.
How does the OBS make it without the NOLs or at least the 51% equity NOL representation without the NOLs?
I don't know.
I'm tired of being lied to but hope for a good resolution because we CTs continue to trade.
mojo
JOVI,
<<Upon completion of the liquidation of the Debtors, all remaining NOLs of the Debtors will be eliminated.>>
Ok.
So, let's screw with this for a few minutes.
Does this mean 49% of the $55B in NOLs, the Debtors share, will go towards canceled debt?
Does this mean 51% of the $55B in tax credits go towards the equity positions and the LBH UK restructuring?
Why would DIP Lehman allow $55B in canceled debt without any equity vote?
It seems they could have paid down the debt without losing as much as they did and re-positioning the employer in some matching write downs but the attorney's are looting the DIP as much as they can, I know.
After all, since Paulson, Bernanke & Bush, they had no reason to stay in business.
Pissed.
mojo
jimmy,
How are they screwing us?
mojo
It could have been different and Lehman was looted while classifying Senior Debtor positions in absolute higher orders of repayment and hand-holding with A&M & BlackRock while firing employees.
So, the attorneys got their fees while they cry everyone isn't satisfied, looting assets except the NOLs & a couple billion in revenues & remaining law suits and saying there is "no money."
After 9 years they want to pick and choose which covenants in different prospectuses they will honor under what conditions.
Stupid. As helpless as the CFPB started under Obama & Warren to run Lehman into the ground with the Valukas Report and the counter parties and suing them for fees.
Scum of the Earth.
mojo