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JBI believes that permits will not take nearly that long.
Jagman said: "I'd guess a minimum of a year before operations start even with a small operation like this one"
I think they have a very solid idea of what it will take. Recall that his new mgmt team has extensive experience with setting up industrial operations via a franchise model (i.e. all the complications of getting established in multiple geographies). Pak-It Canada will soon be operational too!
I received an e-mail from JB 2 days ago.
Question: What is the estimated timeline for franchise applications & grants,and receiving of the processors themselves?
Answer: "Full roll out first Q 2010. We are already in third party validation and testing. We retained a state-certified chemical analysis company that is providing engineering analytics and results for chemical, mechanical and environmental data. They are doing extensive analysis,material balances with all the variables present in many plastics, feedstock and output analysis, safety systems and permitting. This data and documentation will allow us to deploy these processors quickly. It is easy to get our one large processor up and in production however that will not help us get these machines running in volume in various states and countries where we need varying documentation."
So the delay (hardly) of getting the big P2O up and running is intentional -- they don't want to have to do it twice. It shows again that JBI is intent on moving forward on the larger-scale, and not concerned with proving anything to anyone by demonstrating "quick wins".
It will be covered in more detail on the CC.
S.
that would be me @ 1.12 I'll need to take out a loan if I wanna buy more.
I'm nervous, but... then again not really given all that I've read, heard, and seen about JBI. The only real question is when, not if.
S.
I was loaded yesterday. Today I overloaded. Please can we start this rally now? My kids' educations depend on it.
S.
So maybe Ford figures that since they can't sell their new cars, they can at least get a couple of hundred bucks of oil out of the plastic parts, eh? LOL
OK, maybe not.. but you may be right.. I'd bet Ford has a fair bit of left-over plastic scrap.
Maybe we'll find out via Twitter
S.
a quick google search tells me something about JB's reply on FB to Michael Spadotto...
Michael Spadotto works for a company called eWasteRecycling, located not too far from Niagara Falls.
http://www.pazner.com/ewaste/ewasteabout.htm
http://electronics.exchangesystem.net/trade/aa1085617.html
http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=5b973687-4c2b-420f-b02a-b76a38d47aae&k=12172
FXXX is maybe FedEx?
Look like they're gearing-up to test some P2O.
E-Waste is a HUGE HUGE issue globally, and most of it gets shipped to Asia, is never really recycled or dismantled, and completely ruins the environment of where it's stockpiled.
Seems likely it can be picked-up at a port by ... oh.. I dunno.. .say... .a large ship?
S.
any costal place where plastic can be picked up they can pick up P2O product and plastic too, and do the reaction while transporting to the next port.
...thinking outside the box indeed!
S.
In my prior post, I stated that my reaction to reading this was simply to "grin".
When in actual fact I think I lept from my chair and shrieked like a schoolgirl.
I was a bit perplexed to learn they were BUYING a ship, rather than just hiring one. But I guess Exxon (or whoever the heck would rent these things) doesn't want you screwing with their hull design and retro-fitting anything like a giant P2O processor.
Jesus, you certainly can't accuse JB of thinking small eh?
When does the movie come out, and who's gonna play John?
S.
A handful of interesting snippits from the 10Q, followed by the feeling it gave me after reading them.
"The Company adopted at management’s discretion, the most conservative recognition of revenue based on the most astringent guidelines of the SEC in terms of recognition of revenue."
(so the numbers are conservative!)
"We do not undertake and specifically decline any obligation to update any forward-looking statements."
(no hype, only results!)
"The 20MT processor is being meticulously assembled and each assembly process is being photographed and logged so that the processes and procedures for the final operating unit can modeled, independently tested, and the put into production quickly where plastic discards are readily available. Management believes, based upon prototype testing to date, that each large processor will process 20 metric tons of plastic in a continuous operation."
(detail-oriented, thinking ahead about setup & maintenance)
"the Company acquired $9,997,134 of media credits in print and radio. Management intends to use the media credits to advertise information about its PakIt products"
(totally new market here with consumers!)
"Mr. Bordynuik designed hardware and software to recover planetary and sensor data from old magnetic media for various government and institutional archives for more than 20 years, amassing what is believed by management to be the world's largest solution and algorithm archive. We have access to terabytes of this normalized earth sensor data (heat budget, solar radiation, gravitational, magnetic, and vibration information), algorithms, massive research archive, and other related information."
(sounds like a gold-mine!)
"Certain municipalities and companies have agreed to provide raw materials to the Company at no cost, or in some instances, the
Company is compensated to accept the raw materials."
(getting paid to make money is always good)
"This group is assembling a 10MT processor for use on land and manufactured a smaller mobile version for use on a flatbed trailer. John Bordynuik is actively working with ship engineers to develop an optimized high-volume P2O processor to be installed in oil tankers."
*grin*
"Javaco will operate and manage the Company’s Plastic2Oil sites in Mexico."
(looking beyond the 25 JVs !)
"The Company’s Chief Executive Officer, John Bordynuik and the Company have entered into a Pledge Escrow Agreement (the “Pledge”), whereby Mr. Bordynuik has pledged 10,000,000 shares of his holdings in the Company’s common stock and the Company has pledged 100% of the issued and outstanding membership units of Pak-It, LLC as collateral for the Notes."
(putting his money where his mouth is ... this one's for you RainMaker)
"We have been in discussion with many potential clients and they are unable to read their old backup tapes with legacy original hardware."
(zardiw vindicated?)
"The combination of Pak-It and the Company will assure that the Company will continue to focus on strong internal growth. For instance, the Company has relationships with buyers from NASA and other government agencies that will facilitate Pak-It products being tested and hopefully purchased by these large institutions."
(how many square feet of office & lab space does NASA have??)
"our tape business sales are expected to grow as we continue to invest in equipment and personnel"
(sounds like the issue isn't shortage of tapes....)
"ITEM 1A. RISK FACTORS: None"
(no comment)
Stu
I second that motion! Thanks to RainMaker's persistent hole-punching attempts, I've wasted an additional 20-minutes a day for the past week, just reading this crap.
RainMaker, either you're trying to drive the stock price down, or you really do believe you're onto a hoax and are desperately seeking the attention and adoration of iHub members for having "discovered" it!
You're going to be disappointed. This stock maybe overvalued at today's earnings, but the future is very encouraging.
Save yourself (and all of us) some time and make the call to Katie or John, and get the answers you (and only you) need.
S.
That must be true, but those who were "in the know" about JBI at such as early stage are probably waiting for 5x not just 2x.
They'll get there 2x faster than I will if they bought at 0.50
S.
This company and its stock are still largely undiscovered. Even on "big" days, there are extremely few trades (not share volume, but transactions).
The last few snippits of information we're receiving via e-mails and Facebook are very encouraging and give all shareholders a warm and fuzzy feeling, but there are simply IMO far too few people who know about this stock for it to move up as a result of this "news".
I'm beginning to feel that until we move to a bigger exchange, the stock price is gonna be limited. Its disheartening to hear good news (and later to see good earnings) without seeing an increase in value of our investments, but in the long run (for those of us who are long on JBII) it won't make any difference.
With the passing of time, I'm becoming more certain that JBII is a superior investment, but less certain that the stock price will move anywhere in the short-term.
That means there is only one solution: go long, or go home.
S.
I believe he just means that since tires are very complex in their constructions (rubber, steel, carbon, elastomer, etc.)
All hydrocarbon-based material could be reconverterd back into oil, but some of them (elastomer) is worth more as an elastomer. The process cannot create the elastomer, but it can (apparently, if I correctly understand) break-down the other hydro-carbons and leave the elastomer intact.
This seems to me folks, what the famous catalyst is all about. It gives them them ability to tweak the process and produce a selectable oil type (diesel, etc.) or to choose whether to break-down or preserve other hydrocarbon-based material in the feedstock.
I'm not a specialist, so that's just what I've understood personally. I make no claims that this is accurate.
S.
Details on P2O process & JB's thought process:
In case you all missed this one (as I did until now), this was taken from Facebook (am I violating iHub TOU with this?):
Tires are _really_ easy.. Without giving away too much. The reactor has a beautiful ability to separate steel, carbon black powder, and the hydrocarbon gas automatically. Tires are very simple to process. Picture this:
Tire enters reactor (chunks whatever), then after 8 hours or so the carbon back is sucked out, the wire in the liquid catalyst is then extracted by reversing the reactor. Very clean.
I won't do tires at first. The yield is not as high as plastic.
" Would they first be ground up and then fed into the reactor?"
It would be very foolish of us to convert the entire tire into fuel. There is so much $$$ in a tire. How about converting the sidewalls of the tire into oil and preserve the elastomer in the treads and sell that at $0.84/pound?
If I take that a bit further, why convert the sidewalls into $0.20/litre when I can skew the curve elsewhere and get $0.70?
It's all about the hydrocarbon reforming. When you can crack a long hydrocarbon chain where you want it... then you can make more than those pumping aromatic hydrocarbons out of the ground...
Interesting stuff....
S.
E-commerce: create a Pak-It Facebook or MySpace page that people can become "fans" of, and with a click.... order an entire year's supply of household cleaning products over the Internet.
Have the page show a running total of the CO2 saved by the purchases of Pak-It products world-wide, and the amount of phosphates NOT in our lakes & rivers.
Maybe even some stats on the reduction in lower-back injuries since the world started buying the non-slippery floor cleaner
Then, spread the word via Facebook and other social networks ... as John seems to be doing with JBI.
S.
No, nothing concrete on timing.
Here was the reply from JBI:
The current franchise situation is this, we are in the process of setting up 25 joint ventures. These will be operating in Niagara Falls, NY, Pennsylvania, and Florida. These are going to be our first set of franchises and a test run for the P2O joint ventures. Each state/country/region have different regulations and requirements regarding our P2O process and we have decided to start with the above 3 states for now. After the set up and the first 25 joint ventures we will be looking to rapidly expand into other areas.
So far JBI has an outstanding record for doing what they say they will, and often more.
S.
50 processors is not my proposal, its the number of processors expected to be operational via the 25 joint-ventures being established in the first 3 metro areas in the USA. This, according to some feedback received from JBI staff about franchise inquiries. (we assume 2 processors per JV.)
And you're right.. that IS just the beginning, as the franchise model will be rolled-out globally after the JVs are operational, and processors could number in the hundreds within a few years.
But that's all guesswork... the official details will come on Nov 23!!
S.
SwissINSO appears to have just bought this shelf OTCBB company. I'm wondering if anybody would like to do some due-diligence on them. They claim to hold patents to several technologies for water desalination, solar-thermal cell coatings, and heating/refrigeration technologies.
They have close ties to EPFL (Lausanne polytechnic university), a well know high-tech university in Switzerland.
They have just signed an agreement with EPFL whereby the received all intellectual property rights and technology of a solar glazing technology.
http://www.swissinso.com/
Anyone care to dive into the details? Current market cap is $152m, so already quite high. Their last 10Q was before the purchase, and it's not clear yet to me if they have any sales yet, and/or agreements in place with manufacturers.
Stu
In an article/interview with JB, he states that they initial machines are expected to process 20 tons / day, but there are no details -- indeed the max output would appear far greater, but I suppose it assumes an 8hr working day.
The oil must be sold to refineries for legal reasons -- you can't just sell oil you produce in "your back yard". Although you _could_ if you had the right controls & legal stuff worked out, I expect it's just easier to sell it to a refinery.
Still, 20 tons/day is $7000 worth at crude prices. 50 of those means $7m / month in revenue.
Pak-it, P2O ... Pak-It, P2O... which will win?
S.
Not true. Zardiw posted this a few days ago:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=43104911
where he writes that John B. himself said: "the asbestos gloves customs delay created an incredible opportunity to revisit the design. As it is immaterial, more than 1/3 of the original design is now retired, thanks to the gloves."
S.
If the diesel/gasoline output quality is super high (i.e. pump grade), then I'm sure they've negotiated a premium price to sell to refineries. If refineries pay oil-barrel prices for ...well... crude oil, then imagine how much they save with pump-grade fuel. There may be little left to do except put in the additives that Shell, Exxon and others required, and presto!
But seriously folks ... the oil tanker captain?! On November 23 we find out just what that's all about. It smells big...
S.
Agreed! I have not sold a thing yet. Selling a share now is just plain dumb .. it could fly at any time.
Any time......
S.
same here, despite the fact that the saying goes "buy on rumour and sell on news" my approach to JBI is "buy on due diligence, and accumulate on news"
S.
Excellent! Every time a news release comes out, there appears MORE progress than the last one implies would be made.
JBI is moving at an incredible pace on many fronts.
This in indeed a pearl of a company with a mix of products & services, and a bright, bright future!
S.
Did you know that not far from JBI HQ (well, globally speaking) in Kingston Ontario, McDonalds held their first pilot of McPizza, about 15 years back?
And check out what we get in Switzerland:
Now THAT's a complicated franchise model
S.
Actually, 400k is 20 days of operation (2 processors @20 tons / day).
That's a no-brainer for would-be franchisees.
S.
I think the JBI franchise model can be more successful than the franchise model of McDonalds -- to me they're not the same.
JBI is going to make it extremely simple to setup a P2O business unit for anyone who has source material (I'm not including the 25 JVs here, but the larger franchise model which will follow). Selling the output will never be the obstacle -- any refinery will buy your oil. So there is little doubt that any city, state, recycling plant or someone in the middle will make more profit from turning their plastic stocks into oil than whatever they do with it today. And the likely already have the location, staff, and infrastructure to run it.
Envion, and other P2O companies, aren't going down the franchise road, and anyway it's 6 months and $5m to build their P2O facilities, so it's not even feasible that they do.
It's the model that is the advantage here, and it's possible because of the low up-front cost, tiny physical footprint (800ft2), and high quality output.
S.
Thoughts about yesterday's Facebook post
JB's Facebook post from yesterday is very interesting. He's implying that in the 3 urban areas where they will be setting up 25 JVs, they already have the two most important success factors lined-up.
JBI seems to have (or will have) agreements in-place to ensure a supply of plastic (enough for several P2O processors per city!!), quality controls in-place to verify and guarantee the output fuel grade (ASTM testing), and obviously will therefore have agreements in place with nearby refineries they'll sell it to.
A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that securing feedstock is THE critical factor as most plastic (that enters the recycling chain) is already accounted for. So they appear to have that issue taken care of!
The JV or franchise approach ensures that JBI doesn't have to hire anybody directly to operate the processors thus low up-front and overhead costs.
And the high-quality output and perhaps bulk supply agreement means they can demand a premium price for the oil output.
This explains why they've chosen 3 distinct sites to "test" the P2O JVs -- as they have the necessary relationships & agreements there to ENSURE its success in these regions.
This bodes extremely well for shareholders folks.
S.
Question for JB for the conf call:
"We are providing buyers for the output... we manage what goes in and where it goes out" --> Does this apply specifically to the first US-based JV's, or is this also the plan for future franchisees?
I would not expect this to be the case (or possible) for the franchise model, but... as a shareholder this 25 JV initiative is sounding more and more exciting!
S.
some more quick answers:
using the word "factory" is misleading -- the concept of JBI's P2O is "black box", and the entire chain need look nothing near as complicated an Envion's plant.
Nor will it cost as much (5m USD for Envion), but I don't have figures to prove it.
Space required: min 800ft2 + room for silos and diesel storage if required (taken from JB's post on Facebook)
Each JV needs to procure its own plastic, and arrange to sell it to a refinery (or consume it directly could be an option for large farms).
S.
On JB's facebook page, he says they worked like dogs over this weekend to get the P2O processor running (since all pieces have arrived). So I would expect results within a couple of weeks max, or.. more likely, on the conf call soon!
S.
OK, my last punch.
Quote from a prior post: "Why in the world would anybody hire a company that cannot recover 100% of the data.....Would YOU hire such a company at a prohibitive cost, to get data that is flawed?"
To which I will reply, with tongue in cheek: Dunno, did you call them? Call them and ask them why they're doing it, and why they're not using JBI.
S.
Since everyone says they only care about facts, let's deal with them:
FACT 1: JBI can recover data from tapes, perhaps better than anyone else, and have very unique capabilities in this space.
FACT 2: other companies make money doing this (maybe not successfully, but they earn money)
FACT 3, derived from 1 & 2: JBI does not have 100% market share here, and thus have "competitors"
It's not an attempt to drive the stock price down folks, it's a realistic assessment of the situation today, and is insightful for prospective investors.
FACT: JBII is cheap today, so you should all be out earning money to buy some more instead of reading this banter.
S.
Some beers are better than others for you. I'm sure JBI employees drink Moosehead.
Many answers to your questions lie in the plethora of posts to this board, and some in press releases (also on this board).
Quickies, unless I'm mistaken:
. 20 tons / day is for 1 processor, and not the rated/nominal output but the expected daily throughput when in operation (taken from PR). Actual time to crack 20 tons is << 24 hours.
. not all plastic bottles can go in (PET for example, is not yet working)
. 10 tons of plastic takes up a lot of space, yes. You will need a silo or extra storage space, and some family members to shovel it in (like the engine room of the Titanic)
I'd love to see a video of the entire process too! Please JBI employees.. if you're involved with the tests and you're permitted to film this, go nuts!!
S.
JBII vs. Motley Fool's Rule of Investing
I thought I'd share with this board the synergies I see with investing in JBI and the sound, seasoned, and proven approach of The Motley Fool (www.fool.com).
Below are some highlights of their advice for investing, and I believe they all apply 100% to JBI Inc. (with my reasoning in italics)
It's a long post, but its great investing advice and worth the read if you hadn't heard of The Motley Fool.
S.
Principle No. 1: Buy Businesses, Not Tickers. This one is straight from the mouth of famed investor Peter Lynch. Buy into a company's prospects, its future, and its management. Don't try to divine value from a stock chart, and don't blindly invest in a hot industry. Put your money alongside a company you believe will generate shareholder value over the long term.
'nuff said?
Principle No. 2: Be a Lifetime Investor. Be a long-term investors who believes in capitalism and thriving industry. Don't just buy stocks and forget about them. Keep tabs on them, follow the news, study the earnings reports, and strive to learn more about the industries. Also add money to your shares each month, so you're continuously saving and investing.
Principle No. 4: Fish Where Others Aren't. Don't just follow the crowds. Think for yourselves, doing your own research, and making your own decisions.
this board has some great DD posts
Principle No. 5: Check Emotions at the Door. Recognize that stocks will move up or down for a variety of reasons -- and often these movements happen daily. Manage your temperament and don't let your emotions affect your decisions. If stocks you like dip for an unjustified reason, load up rather than sell out.
here, here!
David's Rule No. 1: Invest in companies with unquantifiable greatness; a secret sauce that gives them an edge. For consumer facing businesses, that means finding products that are sticky; products that fasten themselves to peoples' daily lives. Team David asks: How would consumers react if someone took that company off the face of the earth tomorrow? Team David wants businesses that have "the love." In other situations, unquantifiable greatness means looking at businesses at the early stages of any one of 20 possible futures. Generally this kind of wide open landscape bodes extremely well for investors.
JBI is rare in this sense. Pak-It products are concentrated "love". We are VERY early in JBI today!
David's Rule No. 2: Choose companies that will benefit from undeniable, long-term trends. The 90s was the age of the Internet -- an undeniable revolution in information. Prescient investors knew this and clung to the greatest businesses within it. Today, we can see these irrefutable movements all around us: energy, entertainment, healthcare, etc. Once you're able to identify a trend, concentrate on finding the smartest, most forward thinking businesses within them.
Trends: Eco-friendly product line, reducing CO2 footprints (Pak-It), foreign oil dependence, waste reduction..
David's Rule No. 3: Get in early on a great business and don't haggle on the price. When Team David finds a stock with great mojo, they don't quibble over a couple of dollars in the price. In the long run, a few cents and dollars will mean nothing if you get in early on a top-notch business. As these stocks continue to succeed, Team David invests more in them -- and doesn't shy away from them.
Tom's Rule No. 3. Seek shareholder-friendly management teams with ownership stakes. Team Tom looks for loyalty and experience in the executive suite and boardroom. Before investing, they ask: "Would I want the CEO babysitting my kids? Would I want the CFO managing my portfolio? Would Warren Buffett have these guys over for dinner?" Reasonable compensation, insider ownership, and minimal share dilution are strong signals that the interests of the team running the company are aligned with shareholders'.
JB has > 60% ownership and didn't dilute shares through THREE acquisitions
Pak-It rocks! There's just about zero speculation in that area of JBI's business model. Pak-It alone (IMO) is justification for the current price range of JBII.
Just add advertising ... er... water!
Can't wait for Pak-It products over here in Europe!
S.
Whether folks are posting information that appears to imply they are trying to influence the stock price up or down is not such a big deal for those of us who are long on JBII.
But the more "educated" posts about the challenges & opportunities that JBI has with its products, the better -- it helps all of us to understand this company better, and better judge the situation today and the future possibilities.
This forum is not here to serve only those who feel that JBII PPS is way too low -- it's a valid platform for those to voice their concerns that it's overpriced (or maybe just overhyped).
That said, I don't think anyone believes that any post here influences the stock price. And for those who believe it does, and are pro-JBII, doesn't that just make a good opportunity to pick up some more for cheap? Those who are just trying to make money on JBII short-term .... well, shall we just say your money is better spent on a long position -- there's far less risk!!
S.
Somebody already suggested (via Facebook) GoToWebinar.com.
I have also used this (as a participant, not an organizer), and it seems to do the job. Up to 1000 attendees.
https://www2.gotowebinar.com/en_US/webinar/pre/faq.tmpl
S.
BigGreen,
Nicely summarized.
Buenokite has raised the "independent board" issue already, but I'm not sure if it was mentioned as a barrier to up-listing, or just needed for good corporate governance.
It should be covered in the conference call, still unconfirmed for the end of this week.
S.
Oh, so you mean that JBI, because of their unique technology, will be awarded all data recovery contracts world-wide by all governments and organizations, from today onward?
You're right. I'm an idiot.
S.
There is no competition for the NASA contract. OK.
There is no competition to JBI for tape/data recovery world-wide: Not OK.
Seriously, the JBI fan club here is somewhat delusional.
S.