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Greenhorn cost of the app co's revenue is 95%. That leaves only 5% for net before parent co expenses.
If you read the sentence about low margins(profit), you may see what I mean. They do not have 95% profit on this at all.
It would likely be even lower than 5% profit, with all the other charges accounting rules allow them to take even after 95% cost of sales is accounted for.
I responded to the claim of no dilution
I showed exactly where there actually is dilution.
The shares they issue go into the share pool, period. Whether it carries a restricted label on it for a little while is makes no difference, as it is part of the OS count.
So far, in that one trasaction, it appears as if they issued more than the entire share pool's-worth from 2010. Now that is what I call dilution.
Correct - retail shorting a pink like this requires a huge margin....not easy for most shorts.
and MM's can short or limited naked short as they create a market, but they don't really do it to make money.
The latest PR about "half-truths" and evidence that they are paying shares (50,000,000) for "market awareness" signals to me they have tons of shares to dump and may want to keep the share price from tanking for a little while longer.
I think so. They raised the share authorization for a reason.
The apparent failed 2009 buyback/share restructuring plan and subsequent massive dilution make me think they are doing the same thing all over again. They have relied on dumping dilutive shares for cash for years and years, amid stratospherically-high revenue projections that failed to materialize.
Simple DD on the company led me to believe they have a similar massive dilution agenda once again....and investors seem to find out the bad news much later.
the company makes revenue, is NOT diluting, will not dilute in the near future and will not
do any RS.- daytona45
Actually, it appears that they are diluting now. 50 million shares just to one entity.... Excerpt from a compensated awareness post disclosure by TerriF - just click on the link provided to see the disclosure by this poster.
January 2011
Virmmac, LLC had been contracted and has been paid $1,500.00 for IR and social media exposure on APCX
February 2011
Virmmac, LLC had been contracted (90 days) and expects to be paid $1,500.00 per month and will receive 50,000,000 restricted 144 shares for IR and social media awareness APCX
I wouldn't rely on company projections, especially with their track record in that area.
No dilution? are you sure?
They could easily be paying shares for services or promotion, hidden by some of the rescinded shares they are supposedly cancelling.
They also have not disclosed how many warrants they issued in the 2nd half of 2010 for potentially-dilutive shares. Warrants do not show up in the share pool, but sometimes cause the company to increase the authorized shares to makes sure they have enough authorized to cover the warrants to be converted to shares.
HRNF has almost no money for buybacks, as reported by the company's financials. They cannot use money generated by shares issued for financing to do any buyback of shares.
ELEA - massive dilution confirmed
from APCX:
The Company sold approximately 1,500,000,000 shares of common stock raising
approximately $280,000 during the fiscal year ended December 31, 2010.
Nothing wrong with shorting a stock that seems way overvalued and poised to tank.
That is just good investing, IMO.
When a co tries to silence opinion posters in a press release, that is just one more reason to bet that the shares will go much lower.
Revenue? Really?
$10,000 in revenue means only $500 for the company? Oh my!
from APCX:
The nature of Oronoco’s
business is such that Cost of Services will be approximately 95% of revenues.
Isn't that one still worthless and not tradeable?
You can believe a company like this all you want, but as the PPS drops to$0.0002 or lower, all the hype in the world by the company won't get it done.
How else did they get to have so many shares to fast, if it wasn't massive dilution.
Great short at these high prices. Nice money maker for shorts, es[ecially as the PPS heads to $0.0002.
Yes, the massive dilution is one of the reason the PPS will continue tanking
The other is warning people posting opinions on message boards to chill that speech often can raise even more questions about a company.
Retiring shares? So they give out billions of shares for services and then cancel the contract and take back some shares? Doesn't do much for me. At least they didn't call it a buyback.
APCX could drop to $0.0002 quickly
Sure wouldn't buy shares at these high prices.
One of worst-run companies out there. Pagnano has had serial failures since he started.
This is just his latest folly gone bad.
Heathrow has already warned about the shares they plan to issue to insiders and managment, plus they disclosed their needed financing will come from equity (more dilution) financing.
seven - there are no shorts at all in Heathrow, as has been proven repeatedly.
Dilution will likely ramp up fast, once Heathrow is again able to dump billions more shares.
Heathrow has already warned about the shares they plan to issue to insiders and managment, plus they disclosed their needed financing will come from equity (more dilution) financing.
Can't even buy HRNF shares - restrictions at most brokerages due to the big problem HRNF has again with the DTCC
You have equity? The entire class of shares in the company was revoked...not suspended.
You own no share any more, so how do you conclude you have equity?
Has any company that had this happen ever traded again? I think they could try to reverse merge into a shell (after 1 or two years), but current shareholders are out of luck.
I think you also could trade between two individuals, but there is no real market for revoked shares. Not really sure how you'd prove ownership, though.
Heathrow already has done enough to discredit themselves, IMO.
Great entertainment value, but not exactly the poster child for business success and paying obligations.
And convertables, if/when converted, do not come close to the authorized of 3B. - seventeneleven
as of last report....but they may already be close by now.
This thing could drop another 80% soon. If they do financials instead of press releases it could drop really fast, IMO.
Pay attention to the conversion ratio on those special classes of shares. Wow!
and the conversion ratio on all those special classes of shares? Oh my! No wonder the authorized shares had to go up so fast.
I'm not sure HRNF likes people bringing up these things, but they are a public company. There are rules those companies agree to follow. Simply adding a disclaimer in the LAST sentence of their PR's doesn't cut it for me. It would be one thing to have 1 or two mistakes with updating investors, but I have seen numerous ones that are pretty material....that they should explain, IMO.
I hope Panano's next telephone interview gets his response to things like how many warrants were issued (potential dilution) and why the Florida judgments are not considered as liabilities in their financials.
What do you think about this?
Re: Proof Please
My past messages explain how HRNF plans to issue shares to management and insiders. This is part of their share restructuring. That is almost worse than a reverse split, because they will be dilutive. Since that plan was announced, they also changed their position to indicating potential dilutive equity financing, which was a complete about-face from their "no further dilution needed" claims.
Read the press releases
Simply reading their past and recent press releases and comparing the fluff to what actually happened will bring a clearer understanding of what the CEO has/is doing to shareholders for years. This is my opinion. Only you can decide if you want to make an effort to read and compare. DD is not always important when speculating, but I find it helps me determine which companies have a history that is repeating itself. I avoid investing in those, no matter how much I enjoy how they try to peddle their shares by the billions.
The HRNF short, if there was any, isn’t really a short it is the execution of a long sale by a market maker.
Bi-monthly reports show there is only 1 share short, as there has been for a long, long time.
There was one report that showed around $25-worth of HRNF shares short. This was so miniscule that most wouldn't even give it a second thought.
A pattern of questionable things they have put out and done during the 2007, 2008, and 2009 reverse splits and failed buyback plans makes me question anything new. Since December 2010, quite a lot more has come out worth questioning, IMO.
The massive issuance of convertible and additional classes of shares forced them to raise the share authorization.
The common shares could soon balloon to close to the increased authorized shares.
This potential dilution remained hidden to me, until I looked at the massive share conversion potential of the other classes of shares.
HRNF plans to issue tons more shares
to management and insiders
That is why they need 15 billion authorized.
HRNF owes their CEO more than the current HRNF market cap is right now, in just the loan he made to the company.
That doesn't include the bonuses he authorized for himself and deferred salary.
The A/S is 15 billion
They can't even tell the transfer agent the right info
Delaware, their state of incorporation says 15 billion.
HRNF now discloses they have 15 billion authorized.
Could Calvi (former Heathrow owner) be on the board or an insider now? It might show on the Delaware Corporate filing.
He (George)was the head of the Upwon shares for WGL golf membership deal that turned out to be a mostly shares for cash deal and who ran Heathrow before Pagnano "acquired" it. I always wondered why late in that game they were still doing the Upwon (Calvi) membership deal, but reportedly not getting requests for any events for those members. Wow, wasn't that around the time of the Gendarme billions of WEHI (now HRNF) shares? Oh my!
Didn't think of it that way.....but
Product labels indicate 12 individual pieces in that (blister pack) package, and in the US they are required to include that on the packaging for retail gum sales.
That's also what the chinese company that makes the gum for private label sells-12 pieces in a blister pack.
Big company? OK
Like other co's with "shelf" space, it can be bought for the right price. Co's pay for product placement all the time. A "contract" announced does not necessarily mean the chain bought product.
That doesn't mean it will sell, as I've learned from all their other failed trials.
Yes, the GNC site indicates for 12 pieces of gum. That's what the GNC packaging shows on the add. Too expensive for me. You can buy a liquid in most any store for $7-$10, and it hasn't been processed nearly as much as in a liquid.
The latter part of your message is something talked about since before the 2007 reverse split, and the 2008, and the 2009 R/S.
A pattern of questionable things they have put out and done during that time makes me question anything new. Since December 2010, quite a lot more has come out worth questioning, IMO.
It would be nice to see more of those questionable things get attention on the IBOX. Right now, it seems to not have enough.
CEO probably hopes for a reverse split, too.
Seems he hasn't been willing to accept many shares for the money HRNF owes to him for loans, although he got paid something for a small part in 2010.
If I was CEO and knew a reverse split would be needed, I wouldn't take shares for payment, either.......just wait 'till after the next reverse split. It worked for him during the many previous reverse splits. He didn't personally lose money on the loan $'s owed him during those R/S's. Shareholders that trusted him lost almost every penny invested with HRNF, after each of multiple reverse splits.
My trust level is even lower than it was with each of his other business models.
Correct, there are other consequences for those in posession and that get caught spreading the material non-public info.
They don't have to prove intent, only the conspiracy to disseminate. It often takes quite a while to build the case,as we saw with the SEC's action against Gendarme and their sale of billions of HRNF-issued (for cash) unregistered shares.
It looks like they knew about that company even before their latest dumping of HRNF shares. If the SEC was looking to protect investors, I would have thought they would have stopped Gendarme even before they dumped the HRNF shares. Maybe they were building a case against possible co-conspirators or even one or more of the "victim" co's themselves?
Now that Gendarme was named in the SEC actions, they are likely trying negotiate with them to get more info. I would hope that HRNF is cooperating fully with the SEC.
No one negotiates a deal for 6 billion shares-worth of warrants for huge cash payments to the company without speaking to the CEO/only board member, IMO.
Please keep us posted on what you find out about HRNF not including those Florida judgment lien liabilities in their financials, after Pags signed-off on them as conforming to generally-accepted accounting rules (unaudited does not matter).
Also keep us posted on any possible additional material non-public info you obtain and/or post after being fed such info from HRNF. Info, like that in the sticky note, is generating quite a bit of interest, from what I've learned.