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I think they will keep diluting, then need to reverse split.
Right now the price may be so high bcause investors may not understand that Oronoco's cost of sales is 95%. The company puts out frequent PR's talking about revenue, but failed to disclose in those PR's that they may be losing money on every app sale (by the time one subtracts cost of sales and other charges that are subtracted in accounting.
the company "fundamentals" (if the word fits) were almost the same as they are today - catchmeifyoucan
Well, I believe part of that is true. They appear to have $0 sales and have a pattern of massive dilution and not keeping shareholders updated....just like before.
hadesdog re: drugmart
Heathrow still has the mid-march claim on their own website.
I didn't see any other mention of this mid-march thing in a press release. I noticed that Heathrow's website does not actually contain updated information and often has completely incorrect information, IMO.
Here is the only mention about drugmart mid-march from heathrow.
http://www.heathrownfb.com/wheretobuy.html
Note the other retail partners they claim they have, too. DD seems to indicate differently. I wonder if any of those companies knows Heathrow is calling them "partners"?
Fire Lane - that promoter appears to have been paid by the company. I'm guessing a lot more dilutive shares have been given out for promotion. The PR's and recent promotional activity lead me to believe many of the 2 billion rescinded shares will be going right back out into the dilution (share) pool. Companies often get promoters involved when they have a lot of paper to unload on unsuspecting investors.
We also know that there are tons of shares available from past management and the 1.5 billions of shares they diluted in one transaction.
Virmmac, LLC had been contracted (90 days) and expects to be paid $1,500.00 per month and will receive 50,000,000 restricted 144 shares for IR and social media awareness APCX
Does Oronoco actually develop any apps?
With a cost of sales of 95%, this resembles a re-seller of apps, not a developer. The competition and tiny margins among app re-sellers does not lead me to believe they will make any money off of this venture.
RE: The sales figures for the first half of March actually beat the expectations. -Jobrano
Well, we now know that Oronoco has a cost of sales of 95%, so there is almost nothing left after that.
I'm thinkin' $0.0002 may be too high for this stock
Learned quit a bit from some simple DD. The company PR about message board opinions didn't raise my opinion. Price seems much too high.
PS No dilution occuring at these daily volumes. - seven tenEleven
Why would discounted shares issued from Heathrow show up as trading volume? doesn't the seller have to sell to a retail/other buyer to have a trade show up on the tape?
Which of these 3 businesses registered w/shares in Nevada is the one this message board is for?
Entity Name NV Business ID Status Type
APPTECH CORP NV20061369523 Active Domestic Corporation
APP TECH GLOBAL, INC. NV20091467570 Active Domestic Corporation
APPTECH USA NV20101754562 Active Domestic Corporation
type in APPTECH in the Nevada business entity search. You can also view all the actions and amendments there, too.
http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpSearch.aspx
The TA for APCX won't give out information on the share structure?
That's not a good sign, IMO.
APCX cannot use funds from dilutive issuance of shares to buyback any shares.
They could rescind contracts for services and claw-back some shares and put them back into treasury to make it seem like a buyback, but I am not counting on them being able to do this much more.
Greenhorn cost of the app co's revenue is 95%. That leaves only 5% for net before parent co expenses.
If you read the sentence about low margins(profit), you may see what I mean. They do not have 95% profit on this at all.
It would likely be even lower than 5% profit, with all the other charges accounting rules allow them to take even after 95% cost of sales is accounted for.
I responded to the claim of no dilution
I showed exactly where there actually is dilution.
The shares they issue go into the share pool, period. Whether it carries a restricted label on it for a little while is makes no difference, as it is part of the OS count.
So far, in that one trasaction, it appears as if they issued more than the entire share pool's-worth from 2010. Now that is what I call dilution.
Correct - retail shorting a pink like this requires a huge margin....not easy for most shorts.
and MM's can short or limited naked short as they create a market, but they don't really do it to make money.
The latest PR about "half-truths" and evidence that they are paying shares (50,000,000) for "market awareness" signals to me they have tons of shares to dump and may want to keep the share price from tanking for a little while longer.
I think so. They raised the share authorization for a reason.
The apparent failed 2009 buyback/share restructuring plan and subsequent massive dilution make me think they are doing the same thing all over again. They have relied on dumping dilutive shares for cash for years and years, amid stratospherically-high revenue projections that failed to materialize.
Simple DD on the company led me to believe they have a similar massive dilution agenda once again....and investors seem to find out the bad news much later.
the company makes revenue, is NOT diluting, will not dilute in the near future and will not
do any RS.- daytona45
Actually, it appears that they are diluting now. 50 million shares just to one entity.... Excerpt from a compensated awareness post disclosure by TerriF - just click on the link provided to see the disclosure by this poster.
January 2011
Virmmac, LLC had been contracted and has been paid $1,500.00 for IR and social media exposure on APCX
February 2011
Virmmac, LLC had been contracted (90 days) and expects to be paid $1,500.00 per month and will receive 50,000,000 restricted 144 shares for IR and social media awareness APCX
I wouldn't rely on company projections, especially with their track record in that area.
No dilution? are you sure?
They could easily be paying shares for services or promotion, hidden by some of the rescinded shares they are supposedly cancelling.
They also have not disclosed how many warrants they issued in the 2nd half of 2010 for potentially-dilutive shares. Warrants do not show up in the share pool, but sometimes cause the company to increase the authorized shares to makes sure they have enough authorized to cover the warrants to be converted to shares.
HRNF has almost no money for buybacks, as reported by the company's financials. They cannot use money generated by shares issued for financing to do any buyback of shares.
ELEA - massive dilution confirmed
from APCX:
The Company sold approximately 1,500,000,000 shares of common stock raising
approximately $280,000 during the fiscal year ended December 31, 2010.
Nothing wrong with shorting a stock that seems way overvalued and poised to tank.
That is just good investing, IMO.
When a co tries to silence opinion posters in a press release, that is just one more reason to bet that the shares will go much lower.
Revenue? Really?
$10,000 in revenue means only $500 for the company? Oh my!
from APCX:
The nature of Oronoco’s
business is such that Cost of Services will be approximately 95% of revenues.
Isn't that one still worthless and not tradeable?
You can believe a company like this all you want, but as the PPS drops to$0.0002 or lower, all the hype in the world by the company won't get it done.
How else did they get to have so many shares to fast, if it wasn't massive dilution.
Great short at these high prices. Nice money maker for shorts, es[ecially as the PPS heads to $0.0002.
Yes, the massive dilution is one of the reason the PPS will continue tanking
The other is warning people posting opinions on message boards to chill that speech often can raise even more questions about a company.
Retiring shares? So they give out billions of shares for services and then cancel the contract and take back some shares? Doesn't do much for me. At least they didn't call it a buyback.
APCX could drop to $0.0002 quickly
Sure wouldn't buy shares at these high prices.
One of worst-run companies out there. Pagnano has had serial failures since he started.
This is just his latest folly gone bad.
Heathrow has already warned about the shares they plan to issue to insiders and managment, plus they disclosed their needed financing will come from equity (more dilution) financing.
seven - there are no shorts at all in Heathrow, as has been proven repeatedly.
Dilution will likely ramp up fast, once Heathrow is again able to dump billions more shares.
Heathrow has already warned about the shares they plan to issue to insiders and managment, plus they disclosed their needed financing will come from equity (more dilution) financing.
Can't even buy HRNF shares - restrictions at most brokerages due to the big problem HRNF has again with the DTCC
You have equity? The entire class of shares in the company was revoked...not suspended.
You own no share any more, so how do you conclude you have equity?
Has any company that had this happen ever traded again? I think they could try to reverse merge into a shell (after 1 or two years), but current shareholders are out of luck.
I think you also could trade between two individuals, but there is no real market for revoked shares. Not really sure how you'd prove ownership, though.
Heathrow already has done enough to discredit themselves, IMO.
Great entertainment value, but not exactly the poster child for business success and paying obligations.
And convertables, if/when converted, do not come close to the authorized of 3B. - seventeneleven
as of last report....but they may already be close by now.
This thing could drop another 80% soon. If they do financials instead of press releases it could drop really fast, IMO.
Pay attention to the conversion ratio on those special classes of shares. Wow!
and the conversion ratio on all those special classes of shares? Oh my! No wonder the authorized shares had to go up so fast.
I'm not sure HRNF likes people bringing up these things, but they are a public company. There are rules those companies agree to follow. Simply adding a disclaimer in the LAST sentence of their PR's doesn't cut it for me. It would be one thing to have 1 or two mistakes with updating investors, but I have seen numerous ones that are pretty material....that they should explain, IMO.
I hope Panano's next telephone interview gets his response to things like how many warrants were issued (potential dilution) and why the Florida judgments are not considered as liabilities in their financials.
What do you think about this?
Re: Proof Please
My past messages explain how HRNF plans to issue shares to management and insiders. This is part of their share restructuring. That is almost worse than a reverse split, because they will be dilutive. Since that plan was announced, they also changed their position to indicating potential dilutive equity financing, which was a complete about-face from their "no further dilution needed" claims.
Read the press releases
Simply reading their past and recent press releases and comparing the fluff to what actually happened will bring a clearer understanding of what the CEO has/is doing to shareholders for years. This is my opinion. Only you can decide if you want to make an effort to read and compare. DD is not always important when speculating, but I find it helps me determine which companies have a history that is repeating itself. I avoid investing in those, no matter how much I enjoy how they try to peddle their shares by the billions.
The HRNF short, if there was any, isn’t really a short it is the execution of a long sale by a market maker.
Bi-monthly reports show there is only 1 share short, as there has been for a long, long time.
There was one report that showed around $25-worth of HRNF shares short. This was so miniscule that most wouldn't even give it a second thought.
A pattern of questionable things they have put out and done during the 2007, 2008, and 2009 reverse splits and failed buyback plans makes me question anything new. Since December 2010, quite a lot more has come out worth questioning, IMO.