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spinner. That is good news. yes.
Anyone know what happened to this? <<We have entered a possible agreement for a 52 episode TV show. Not signed yet, but very close. We will start shoting in April or MAy depending on the final deal. We would own 100% of the advertizing time on the show and use that as the base for artifact sales>>
This was posted THIS year, so this is not the "old" one with Deletable Productions from a year ago (As opposeds to the "very old" from a few years ago)
We should have been shooting the last few months. But I haven't heard anything about it. IS Billy hiding the fact that he is about to be a TV star?
ANy news on this newest TV deal that was happening "we will be shopoting in APril or May" of this year? Director Neb? Any updates for us on this?
Looking for something positive about the company. This would be positive. ANyone know anything?
Sounds more and more like Jay gave certain emeralds to people like 60 minutes and the curator quoted, and DIFFERENT emeralds to the Fishers when they were looking at them to see if they were from the Atocha. Worthless ones.
Makes you wonder how he thinks he will get away with that,if that is what he did. Since the court order told him to give the emeralds to the Fisher's guy.
The Fishers may enter into this decision again, if they feel they were given dummy emeralds for their looking and the real emeralds were hidden in spite of the court order.
Sounds like it is still going to be interesting!
Wilf speaks out on the funding from London.
"Final structure will be known within the next week or so, but it would be part interest part participation. It leaves us enough to run Deep Blue for the next two years, get the survey boat and also a smaller boat for shallow recovery"
OH, wait a minute. that was said in MAY.
My bad!
Spinner,
Do you have the responses? I don't. Yes, I would like to see the other side too.
Hoodia.
You mean the plant, or the supposed diet supplement?
Wow.
I see a potential world of hurt in this for Jay. Which means for ORRV and investors too.
Lots of stuff, but here is what I ask others to comment on.
<<Miscovich described himself to Baer, and to others, as a retired emergency room physician and to others as a retired emergency room physician; but, Miscovich, has never practiced medicine. During the 60 Minute interview, described himself as a real estate investor, not a physician>>
<<Edwards called Neil Ash and suggested to him that, if there was not enough cash on hand to pay him, then Emerald Reef should sell some of the emeralds that were being kept in Key West. Ash’s response made it clear to Edwards that Ash was shocked to learn that any emeralds, much less a considerable amount, were being kept in Key West.
>>
<<During the 60 Minute interview Miscovich, besides not mentioning his Mexican friends, said that he came upon the emeralds after buying a map at a bar in Key West for $50,000. The map identified the spot where Miscovich allegedly found the emeralds lying on top of the seabed. In Motivation’s experience, it defies belief that emeralds would be laying on top of the seabed. It, even greater, defies belief that someone with a map, showing where individual emeralds were laying on the top of the seabed, would not harvest the emeralds him or herself. Notably, Miscovich declined to name the person who sold him the map>>
<<Based upon the foregoing, Motivation believes and, therefore, avers that the complaint initiating this action, verified by Jay Miscovich, is not trustworthy; and, because JTR Enterprises is controlled by Miscovich, JTR is not fit to continue to serve as the Substitute Custodian>>
<<Furthermore, in addition to the fact that Miscovich’s description of where he found the gemstones and other artifacts is not consistent with the Gulf of Mexico waters of the Lower Keys, the following alleged facts further convince Motivation that Jay Miscovich did not discover and recover the emeralds and other gemstones and artifacts where he averred they were found.
The Gemstones and Artifacts Were Not Found Where Alleged>>
Oh look. ORRV is even mentioned in the suit finally! (I skipped most of the beginning parts about ORRV)
<<(Peter) Tobia wanted Brisben to grant a salvage subcontract to a company that Tobia was associated and strongly implied that, if Brisben’s subcontract agreement was made, a lot of emeralds would likely be found in the 1715 Fleet’s arrest and permitted salvage area. Brisben was leery of the proposal and declined the offer.
45. Peter Tobia, a self-described “consultant at marine exploration and salvage”, had been engaged by ORRV in September 2009 as a full-time consultant overseeing investor and public relations as well as other matters.>>
Wow. Is this saying “give us a contract for your area, and we promise we shall (wink wink) find a lot of emeralds in YOUR area”?? this could put ORRV in the crosshairs for wrongdoing too! And Peter? Say it isn't so Peter. Call me and let's talk. You still have my number?
<<Miscovich allegedly found a fortune of emeralds in “early 2010” but in May 2010, he was seeking an agreement to search for treasure off of Woman Key, Peter Tobia was trying to obtain a subcontract to search off of Vero Beach and, although Miscovich promised to deposit the coordinates for the “Emerald Reef Dive Site” with the counsel for Emerald Reef, LLC, in August 6 and in September 2010, he never did; and, in June 2011 contracted to search again off of Woman Key.>>
This says a lot …
<<While in the possession of thousands of emeralds with a value alleged by Miscovich to be approximately a half billion dollars and refusing to disclose the coordinates of the Emerald Reef Dive Site, it is clear to Motivation that Miscovich was seeking locations where he could “find” emeralds and other gemstones that he already possessed.
Miscovich’s Machinations Were Necessary to Hide the True Source of the Emeralds
52. No plausible reason exists for Miscovich’s need to seek agreements to search for treasure already in Miscovich’s possession except to hide the true source of the emeralds and other gemstones>>
<<Motivation believes and, therefore, avers that Miscovich agreed to lead a conspiracy and concocted a scheme and that, as a part of the scheme, purchased or otherwise obtained a considerable number of modern era emeralds and amethysts of little value in order to concoct an enormous lie about a huge find of gemstones too large to have been reasonably filched from the ATOCHA site.
>>
<<Motivation believes and, therefore, avers that Miscovich attempted to sell the most valuable emeralds to various individuals and, to make a glittering show of the stones, treated them with oil or another compound; but, he could not sell them because he could show no title to the gemstones and, thus, decided that he needed to “find” them and institute an admiralty proceeding to obtain an adjudication of title>>
<<Motivation believes and, therefore, avers that, when and if Miscovich and Elchlepp are compelled to bring all of the gemstones that have been in their possession at any time after January 23, 2007, into the jurisdiction of this Court, the Court will find that the res will be comprised of valuable emeralds that were mined during the Spanish Colonial Era and rested at the bottom of the ocean for hundreds of years and amethyst and other emeralds that have not>>
I’m not saying much about all this. Just posting the most damaging parts, and asking what OTHER people think.
So … what say ye?
WAITING2
"You win the next 5 races...my investment just grew for me 5 times because I own 5.21% of your race-team. You are now worth millions. "
Not true. For the SAME reason it is not true for ORRV. Let me explain why not.
The revenue in your illustration WOULD be 5X. But that is revenue, not NET income. In your illustration, it is not income to you, but income to the racer. the racer then had expenses to RUN those races. tires. gas. Crews. Parts. All sorts of costs. So, that might drop you down to 3X as a net, after those expenses. Still great, but NOT 5X. See my point? And for ORRV, that makes a BIG difference I think. And yet people KEEP using the revenue number, not the net number. that's all I want them to do. Use the expected NET, not the expected revenue. JTR is going to have a lot of COSTS, just like a race car would. Not just attorney fees and the likes, but costs to dive for the emeralds, gas, crew, ships, etc. IF it comes in, but we can't determine that yet. Posters keep forgetting about (Again, using your illustration) the gas, the tires, the spare parts, the crew, etc.
Now, with your ilustration, maybe it is only 3X instead of 5X, but that is still pretty good. However, in ORRV's case, ORRV gets that net number, and that then becomes THEIR "revenue" number. Your illustration says YOU are the investor of 5.21%. IN this case, it is another company (ORRV) that is the investor, and they TOO have their OWN expenses (let's say the cost of attending the races to cheer on the driver they backed) that's a SECOND tier that is NOT in your illustration but IS in this one. ORRV eats up a lot MORE of that money, and to me, I think that drops it back down to a net for ORRV to the bottom line (Because you are not OORV. You are an investor in ORRC, and so truly ARE the second tier down) of maybe 1.5X instead of the 3X that ORRV gets in revenue or the 5X that JTR gets for their portion of the find.
Does that make sense? I hope it does, for this IS the way it shall be divided. It's corporate accounting. ALL companies work with revenue and then expenses to come up with net. These two shall too. And you, owning a portion of ORRV, which owns a portion of JTR, is like owning a portion of the company that supports the race driveer. One more layer than your illustration, and BOTH layers need to take expenses off BEFORE it comes down to the bottom line.
Which is why I look at the REST of ORRV and think of the emeralds as a potential bonus, but not the main event. ANd the rest of ORRV? No boat, having been taken for dock fees. No equipment, having been taken for back pay. No crew, having not been paid. So I don't think this is a good bet. If something comes out on the emeralds I might buy in for the short term, but long term I don't personally like this company, and don't feel the bounce will last. Anything that comes (IF anything comes. I have no good thoughts on that at his time) to the bottom line of JTR will filter 5.21% to ORRV,and that may get them back to buying a boat or hiring some crew, but that still puts than with nothing, and that would be after the money is spent.
Just my thoughts.
Other things?
let's see.
their boat ... was taken for lack of dry dock payments, and now is gone
Their equipment ... was taken by an ex employee for past due wages and is all gone
Their crew ... well, they have no crew.
No, I'd say the emeralds, of which someone else found, not ORV, is the ONLY thing they have going for them right now.
Spinner, that's the good news about my way of investing.
if it is decided the emeralds are worth millions, and the stock goes up, I shall do two things. First, I shall congratulate the longs who made money on it. I have no problem in being happy for others' success stories. And I've done that on boards here before when I was out of the stock. Second, I'll buy back in. (Maybe not evenin that order, LOL) When the news hit over the weekend, I thought we would scream up on Monday morning. Instead, it did not. It is slow. It doesn't have many investors that own it, and most are small players. If I had to get in at .002 on its way up rapidly, and it went to .02, that is still a great win, even if I didn't buy it at .0006. If I had to pay .01 even, MUCH higher than I just sold, I'd be fine with it, as that would be a separate investment from this one and taken on its own merits. If I lost some potential gain, so be it. I never close the door for all eternity on a stock I know so much about. I'll continue to watch it, even though I am bearish right "now". I'll be a fast buyer (Like I was on Monday morning, and like I was a fast seller on this news) and get in BEFORE a lot of traction comes into play. Shoot, I'll BE part of that traction. PLus, a lot of people CAN NOT get in at these levels, for various reasons. But if the stock moved up, they COULD. And they WAIT until it does certain things and THEN buy it. So if the news came out that all was good, it would not be a one day play. I'd get in on day one, and ride the "remainder" of the wave. And those who are in now? they would have a higher wave to ride - but becaue they are taking a higher risk right now too.
I was told the same thing when I sold the stock in the "parent" of this company. I sold 17 million shares of that one over almost 30 days. Continually selling. And told eveyone I was as i was doing it. I sold at .0035 down to .002, and was probably the CAUSE of some of that drop. But now? now it is at .0003. They added an extra zero. So I am happy to be out. And if they find something big, I may have to pay more to get in, but I'm watching that one TOO. I bet when the odds are in my favor, and fold when they are not. For this stock, right now I think the right hand is to fold. Two reasons. 1) the report. 2) the fact that ORRV doesn't have control over anything with these emeralds, and even if they are sold, there is NOTHING that says they will get cash for their 5%. Or what expenses woud come out of JTR before the 5% was given. And with no boat, no office, no crew, no equipment, and no diving going on, I can't consider this worth owning ... right now.
Hope that helps. My biggest point though is that if the stock moves up on great news, I wouldn't kick myself in the butt, but get what portion I could and be happy with that. AND be happy for the rest of the longs in since now. (Well, the majority of the longs at least. LOL)
I sold.
Took a small loss, by getting out for almost the same price as I got in. Well worth it to be out.
There are things that bother me about the report. First off, i do NOT agree that this guy was biased and said things that the Fishers wanted hiim to say. Or that he said they were worthless because he was on the fisher's "side". Looking at the report you can see that he was very professional. He did not do this FOR the Fishers. He did this for money paid to him to give an honest opinion. I think anyone trying to discredit this jeweler is wrong. (My opinion) Just look at the report. Where he could have hammered the legality of the stones he did NOT, since that was not the goal of his report. He only talked about what the stones were, and if they were from the Atocha. The quality was mentioned only because it showed the fact that they were not from the Atocha.
Here are parts of the report I think EVERY investor needs be concerned about, IMHO.
"It is unlikely that any clarity enhancement treatment of emeralds subjected to an oceanic environment would survive for more than a few months, much less 65 to 70 years since the ship sank in World War II. (A simple test: as a person enters
into the ocean with the body well-oiled against the sun, how long does the sun tan oil last?"
So it can't be the WWII ship that had these emeralds, as hoped for by some. OR ANY old ship laden with treasure. NONE.
"To this point, I showed attorney Siracusa how the emeralds in front of us were still sticky with surface oiling
enhancement to the extent of passing an emerald over to him to feel it adhering to his fingers, to which
effect he readily assented. This is a visual and palpable confirmation that we are here dealing with modern
emeralds."
Not terribly bad by itself, but stops the thoughts of these being a sunken treasure of emeralds. Could be a sign of fraud on Jay's part. I hope not, but could be.
"The grade of the emeralds I examined was low grade ‘moralla’ clarity enhanced. ‘Moralla’ is a Colombian term for
the lowest grade of emerald, although in all my 56 years in the emerald business I have not seen emeralds of
such poor quality as the rough alluvial emerald beryl material presented in Mr. Horan’s office. These largest
groupings of rough would be more appropriately described by the Colombian term ‘barro’ which roughly
translates as ‘not worth sweeping off the floor’."
OUCH! In 56 years in the business he has not seen emeralds of this poor condition. EVER. Which makes sense, because they don't normally SHIP these quality emeralds to the states, so he, as a jeweler here, would not see them. Guys, this is not some flimflam artist that is working for Fisher. this guy is one of the ESTEEMED EXPERTS in the field. With 56 years behind him. He must be about 75 years old or so. Not the type to say things lightly. Yet these are POOR quality emeralds. This is SICKENING to me, and I am surprised are not to YOU TOO.
"The emeralds in the matrix gangue specimens were almost all internally shattered, both those from Muzo mine and Chivor mine"
Damaged emeralds. Poor quality, and shattered on the inside. I see no reason to not believe him. I need to see what 60 minutes said again, to see if they actually said they thought they were high quality. I'll try to see that again tomorrow. SOmeone posted a link to that episode, didn't they?
"An occasional small parcel of emeralds was of better crystallization, but all in all I would estimate a generous
retail value for all of Mr. Miscovich’s collection of $50,000.00"
So ORRV gets 5% of $50,000? ORRV gets $2,500? Oh not really. First they have to pay fees and such. What a bad thought, and this guy, again, is THE go-to guy in the industry in Fl, where the court is. Personally, I think they are worth MORE than that, because he goes on to talk of a few good stones, some other stones not emeralds, and also he didn't see "all" of them. But our thoughts of millions? Well, some of your thoughts of millions. I admitted on MOnday when I did it that I bought in for the short term, and never believed in millions, as some will attest to when they continue to slam me. LOL. But this is not a good thing, and coming from this man? terrible. (WHich is why I am back out again.)
"The only problem would be finding a buyer. I have not put any value on the low grade amethyst or quartz or Brazilian rough emerald, the latter being such very poor and non-commercial quality and the first two are not within my area of expertise."
He says that even at that low price, there may not be any buyers, as no one wants emeralds of that low of quality. Again - not good at ALL.
He even addresses the drug runner potential idea.
"As to the claim that the emeralds may have been ditched in these waters by drug-runners, I would point out that the very low quality of the emeralds would be unworthy of any would-be emerald smugglers trying to enter them into the United States, as well as the very well-known fact that loose emeralds enter the USA duty free thus obviating the need for high speed sea chases. The largest smuggler of emeralds into the United States is actually the American housewife by not declaring them at Customs"
Then he follows it up with more damaging thoughts. I don't like this one for Jay's future!
"The 11.5 pound bag of emeralds claimed to have been brought up from the sea bottom was composed of a larger quantity of smaller sizes than those ever found on the Atocha. It took 27 years to bring up about one tenth of that in those very small sizes of emeralds from the Atocha site, using the best equipment. I do not
agree that those emeralds would have remained in one tight location so readily available on the sea bottom surface after 60+ years of ocean immersion"
That makes great sense. 27 years with the best equipment out there couldn't find what Jay "stumbled upon" while diving a mile away from where the map said to dive? Guys, I think the last one to the door gets the lowest price. Which is why I am gone for now. I wish (Most of) ther est of you good luck, but I think there are better lottery tickets out ther ethan this one. A t least for me. At least today.
He ends his report by giving the ONLY Piece of good news in the entire thing.
"I pointed out to Mr. Miscovich two specimens, one in particular, which had crystal forms that were rare, and
of which he was unaware, that would be considered excellent collectors or museum items. One was a pyrite
specimen that had three small emerald crystals within it that had caps instead of the usual flat terminations.
The other was a large, attractive crystal of emerald in the matrix that could be set into jewelry"
I think that if you consider this a lottery ticket, you are looking at the first three numbers already announced, you have NONE Of them on your ticket, and you are saying "Wait. I don't want to do anything until I hear the last three numbers". LIke they could MEAN something to you after seeing all this as part of the ansewr already shown? Nope. I think ORRV is done.
Remember - this is not even ORRV versus Fishers or the emeralds. This is JAY versus the Fishers and the emeralds. ORRV only owns 5% of Jay's company. ORRV is its OWN company. So at least ORRV can continue based on its OWN merits, right? But ORRV is a company that had its boat taken away for not paying dock fees and now has no boat, had its equipment taken by an employee who said he was not paid and took it for pay and therefore now has no equipment, and has no crew, since they have no money to pay anyone. A diving company with no crew, no equipment and no boat? To me, that's a lottery ticket with three numbers already showing, and NONE matching MY numbers. I'm out again. If things change, there is time to get in, but holding now makes NO sense to me at ALL. I said "To me."
Isaac looks mean, and we don't even have any gas in the dinghy to get to the boat (Which also has no fuel) to take it to a safer location.
So it sits Exposed. Without fuel. As the storm bears down.
Doesn't look good.
Billy be safe down there!! As best as you can at least.
true -
the 15 minute edit window is kind of nice at times. I can type something, put it on the page, send someone (you) a message, then change it to something else. ALmost like a spy movie thing to do. And everyone sees the new post, but you see the original reply if you look in your mailbox (If you are set up to get emails when someone responds to you)
KInda cool. A new toy for me to use on IHUB.
Today's volume is MUCH more like what I expected yesterday. Much better.
Oh, and I bought yesterday (I admit it) at Etrade, with no problems. SO the chill is not industry wide. Just AMeritrade like someone else said, and maybe a few others that clear through them.
Not a good day after all. We traded a total of about $3,800 in stock so far today, with 45 minutes to go. Not a lot of buying consdiering the news seemed so good. (Not even from those that said they were going to add more on Monday morning.) I sure thought there might be more buying than that though. And I bought at the high of the day, but that;s okay. I'm hoping for a move in the next few weeks,a s they make their claims and release news. Sure wish JTR were a public company though.I'd like that play a LOT better than ORRV, who has no control over what JTR gets or how to use it.
that's a pretty well worded response.
Although I wish it were dismissed with prejudice, instead of without it. Not that I think the fisher's will be back, but it woudl have been stronger in case for some odd reason they did.
did you LOOK at my post of about an hour before yours? You wanted my thoughts, and asked for them, an hour AFTER I posted them.
You still don't make sense to me with your style of DD.
And my words still stand. I never said Jay would win or lose the case. Only that the thoughts of ORRV getting 5.21% of $600MM was naive. And I still say that. There are costs involved for JTR, and those costs occur BEFORE any distributions to anyone owning JTR stock, which is what ORRV has. And then there are costs to ORRV TOO. So the bottom line to ORRV will be WELL below the numbers mentioned that I was refuting. MY post was a reply to those saying ORRV was gong to get $30MM to be able to use for their own exploration. I still say that is not correct (if the value of the emeralds is $600MM< which could be right, and could be off in either direction. But youa re taking the middle of a conversationa nd not keeping it in context. IN context, I still stand by what I said.)
And the court case is for JTR, not for ORRV, so nothing I said about the dilution to ORRV has been determined. And can't be for a while after JTR gets a final win, if they do.
Must admit. Not the volume I thought we would have based on the suit being dropped. And all the loud "I'm gonna add more Monday" comments.
i still say that ORV will not get NEAR what people think, as Jay uses some of the money within JTR and it doesn't flow down in the extent stated by most to ORRV. however, I DO think there will be an upward movement based on this news. So I bought in this morning. Surprised that my little buy is over half of the trading in the first 25 minutes. Only threw a pittance into here for the short term play.
So far it has trade only a little over $2,000 in stock this morning. really not the volume expected for this wonderful news.
Surprising ...
Not sorry to hear Burt is done. I personally think (opinion) that Wilf and Tracy will be done soon too. Since the south shore is doing well, I assume Bobby will keep his, and Punta cana may keep Bobby or get someone new. A nd maybe Billy will get a lease, or even take over Wilf's when it expires in Febraury? Is that a crazy thought or something that you think your boss will allow?
Jester,
Isn't there a lease for Burt, or was he under one of the other ones? I thought he still had one down there though somewhere.
Still would like to hear what is happening with Bobby Pritchett. (Pritchett, not Pritchard) and his lease, as I was under the impression that he was running it pretty clean so far. No issues, no lawsuits, no late payments to Cultura, no funding issues like DPBE currently has, and even working with Punta Cana on their lease in addition to his own. He is supposed to go public next year, so I've been watching him to see how he compares (favorably by a LOT, I'm sure!) to Wilf. If you have some information I am not aware of on Bobby, I'm serious, I'd love to hear it.
Thanks.
What civil and criminal cases are Bobby Pritchard involved in? I know about Wilf and Tracy, but haven't heard ANYTHING about Boby P being in any casesd. I thought he and Punta Cana were the two in better shape.
Please expound a little more.
No one CAN come in and take over the company. And yes, that was discussed here. read about the posion pill and toxic funding.
That prevents a takeover.
Nice disc. Too bad odds are large that it has already been collaterialized for a loan and will not be sold at this time, and therefore won't help us with revenue.
And that's the problem. Yes, we find stuff. But - that stuff is spoken for, by the DR, by the LPs, by the loans, by anyone but DPBE! It seems we get almost NOTHING. Billy does his job. But WIlf destroys, IMO, the results and we don't end up with the corporate side holding up its side of the deal. And that is why we are at triple zeros and why I feel we shall NOT get back to even half a penny. Or close to it.
Neb, you are right. What we are finding is great stuff. BUT if it doesn't get to the bottom line, or even to the TOP line, then it is irrelevent. And THAT is the part that so many are ignoring. finding stuff is great. But if it can't be used or sold, due to ever increasing demands on what we find (And what will go to the London people if thye fund us more? I'm sure that too will come before DPBE gets any share of what is found!) then finding stuff like that disc means nothing
And the stock price shows that reality.
Guys, I am asking that we keep this board within the guidelines of IHUB.
Here is the rule that seems broken a LOT.
<<Vulgarity – profanity of any kind is unacceptable on the stock boards, even when punctuation characters are used to "fill in the blanks" or letters are changed >>
If you use a word that is inappropriate, and either change a letter or two, leave out a letter or two, or put an asterik or something iin place of a letter or two, but the word is known to be what it is, then I am going ot delete it. Bull or bear post doesn't matter. Other good information or not doesn't matter. I've aske dthat the vulgarity stop, and now I am giving fair warning that it is not allowed here and won't stay on the board any longer.
Just letting you know.
Idon't know if this is the reason for any of the volume on DP BE this week or not. We were up pretty high in volume, and now I read this. "maybe" this was some of our volume too. I hope not, but this is worth reading for all of us here.
<<Knight Capital Group Inc fought for survival on Thursday after a $440 million trading loss caused by a software glitch wiped out much of its capital, forcing Knight to seek new funding as its shares plunged as much as 80 percent in two days
...
From even before the opening bell on Wednesday, traders across the market noticed something wrong, saying they saw heavy "indicated" volume for stocks that normally trade infrequently.
As soon as the market opened, an unusually high flow of orders in more than 140 stocks came in, causing shares to move rapidly. Knight later attributed the moves to software problems that caused little-traded shares like China Cord Blood to rise sharply, with some gaining more than 100 percent within seconds.
...
"Whenever you have a company that lost roughly half of its tangible book value in five minutes, everything is on the table," said Kenneth Pasternak, who co-founded Knight in 1995 and served as its chief executive until he retired in 2002. "All he has to do it is pick up the phone."
Joyce has seen his considerable stake in his firm almost wiped out in a matter of hours. As of April 2, Joyce owned more than 1.2 million shares of Knight Capital, with a market value of nearly $16 million -- a stake now worth less than $3 million.
>>
We didn't rise, but the volume we had could have come partially form there. We know Knight is a trader of this stock. I guess we'llsee in the near future.
ANyway, an interesting story. And it couldn't happen to a nicer set of guys.
Man ... I HATE defending the company. But in this case?
<<But would like to see the Treasure Salvage leases not just to see that they exist.... But what person and/ or company holds them.
And what are the terms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who here can make that happen for us>>
I would say that we have no right to see that contract. No company takes its proprietary contracts and posts them for invesstors to see. We don't know what pricing Ford gets from its parts manufacturing companies, what price Intel charges Best buy for its computers, how much each doctor gets from premiums for Blue Cross, or any other business contract for a company.
I think it is unreasonable to ask for such a thing. And so do the companies.
Better financials, yes. Copies of their contract with the D.R. government? No. Not at all.
dj,
I'm actually surprised by the lack of volume today. I thought with the NEW certified letter that WIlf got yesterday from the SEC saying they are now coming after him on a larger scale that people woud be selling today, at ANY price.
Billy is sitting on land, with no money and no fuel, during the BEST diving time of the year. the company owes I believe EVERY employee back wages that they have not paid. The office is gone. the Utah "employees" are working for other people. WIlf now has a NEW SEC problem that is going to take it to the next (Nasty) level, and since HE is behind the London deal, which to me (opinion now) violates ALL the agreements with the SEC to NOT RAISE MONEY for a STOCK (ahem. DPBE is a Stock, isn't it?) that people would DUMP the stock to get SOMETHING for it.
I guess they feel even though they've rubbed off three numbers on their lotto ticket (using an analogy others have used that this is a lotto tickeet) and know now that it is a loser, they still want to rub off the last numbers instead of dumping it.
Yes, I'm surprised people aren't selling.
More bad news for Wilf Blum.
So the case is NOT over and done with.
Now that one area found him guilty, the commission itslf is opening up an inqiusition against Wilf.
This could be the end of LOndon and the end of DPBE. I hope not, but I think, IMHO, that it could be the straw that breaks the back.
No, there are no boats in the water. Except in the water at the dock.
This is the perfect weather, the perfect time of year, and the time we've been waiting for. It is DIVE time. Now, it is here ... and the boat sits, as there is no fuel in the boat and no money for fuel. Or food. Or paychecks. Or rum.
Last I heard at least.
You're missing something here. Really. Not bashing you, just saying you are off a little in where your thinking is. Here, look at this. <<Supposed you look at momentum, and receive news that Jay sold the gems for big money, then you say you're going to further dive with Jay, and then say you expect recovery of another wreck near term? Regardless of whether you have the Nimitz, a row boat or a bloated whale, you're SP may hit 20 cents.
>>
Okay, if JAY sold some emeralds, and if JAY dove for more, that is JAY doing it. the problem is the "your" shares hitting $0.20 would be JTR, but NOT ORRV. See the difference?
You are thinking that Jay is ORRV, or somewhow has something to do with ORRV. that is not the case. It is the other way around. If Jay dove for more items, or found another wreck, that would be JTR finding it, not ORRV. And if Jay wanted people to dive with him he "Could" hire ORRV, but they have no crew to dive, no equipment to take with them, and no boat to bring to the table (or ocean site). Yes they own a portion of JTR, and that is a positive. But that is two steps removed from cash IF they win, and worthlesss if they lose. I say EITHER way, ORRV doesn't see haldly ANYTHING from the emeralds. JAY might, but we keep talking about Jay and ORRV interechangably, or even saying ORRV will get 5% of the emeralds, and that is just not true. ORRV gets 5.21% of JTR, which has to win the case, sell the emeralds, pay the attorneys, pay all the other expenses of a corporation, pay taxes on all things sold, THEN decide if they wil give ANY Money out to investors (Of which ORRV is one) or not, and then IF they give money to investors (A dividend, in all probability) then ORRV takes that as revenue and AGAIN all the expenses have to be paid, all the payrolls caught up, and I see nothing left. Not for ORRV. And if Jay were smart, and IF he won, I say he KEEPS the money, and makes JTR a bigger company.
Let me put it another way. Ir ORRV gets the money how much of the MONEY will YOU see? The answer is zero. true? You might sell your stock, and it might go up, and that would be cash for you, but my questions is how much of THIS money will YOU see. Again - the answer is nothing. Because ORRV would KEEP the money to RUN the business. Right? And that is what you WANT them to do. Get things going. Well, why wouldn't Jay do the same thing? Run HIS company, instead of giving the MONEY to the investors. ORRV would not give the money to the individual investors who own SHARES of the company. It would just run (What is left) to the bottom line to be used for the company. By the same token, why is no one saying Jay would do the same thing? Then ORRV, who owns SHARES of JTR, JUST LIKE you own shares of ORRV, would have an ASSET, but no "money" from the deal.
See how that makes sense? But every time I talk about that, the post sits there and no one thinks about it. They are all glassy eyed over "emeralds" and thinking ORRV is going to get MILLIONS. JAY may or may not get millions. I say ORRV shall NOT get what people say, and then IF they get SOME, if any CASH at ALL, it will all be eaten up by past corporate commitments and debts. NOthing left to make the company into something.
I really feel that way. And I don't understand why others do not see it. ORRV is not the party to this case. They are a shareholder of the man who is a party to it. Just like you are a shareholder to ORRV. And just like you will not get any cash if ORRV does, I don't see ORRV getting any cash (Or a pittance) if Jay gets some. If he wins, it will be used up by his cmompany to pay for things he owes, including attorneys,and much will disappear before hitting HIS bottom line and being ABLE to be divided out to any shareholders. Then he keeps it and JTR becomes an operational company, not ORRV (the shareholder of JTR)
People should be buying shares of JTR as a lottery ticket (And no, you can't, since it is not a public company) not ORRV. It is one step removed and has too small of a percentage. I see this ending badly for ALL investors that stay the course with this company. That's corporate structure and facts knowing how balance sheets and income statements work, versus the EMOTION that the bulls have that say this company is going to get $25MM cash. Not a chance, even IF Jay wins. NOT A CHANCE!
IMHO
Awefully quiet in here lately. And the price dropped below $2. BUmmer.
cc,
<<I have a million shares based on a guy who cannot prove he found the gems, and a company with a new website.>>
And a diving company that has no boat, having been repossessed, no crew, having not been paid, no equipment, having been taken by the crew for wages due, and nothing else to its name.
How can you call it a treasure hunting company? And they may have an interest in some emeralds that they did not even find! remember - Jay is NOT with ORRV. He owns JTR Inc, and ORRV just owns a small part (5.21%) of JTR. that's ALL. And JTR doesn't look so hot right now EITHER. Yep, the oNLY thing they have going for ORRV isemeralds that someone ELSE found (IF that story is to be belived,and I'm nuetral on that point)
WHY would someone buy shares of a treasure company that has no boat, no equipment, no crew, and no reasure they have found? Since you mentioned you own the sahres, I'm asking WHY. The odds seem HIGHER than a lottery ticket, and the amount invested is not the standard $1 or $5 (Although $5 would buy a fair amount of shares. Too bad the commission would be as much)
No, I don't see why anyone is invested in this company. Shoot, you can't even all it a company. They have NOTHING. Just a website I guess.
Carolina, You ask "Why can't the judge pull the trigger on this one?" Becuase that is not his job. that is his job or a jury's job at TRIAL, but NOT NOW. The american system says if you make a claim, you get to have your day in court, THEN they decide if your claim is valid or not.
You write "The case isn't that hard if you actually were to use facts, lack of facts, and efficiency" You have NO IDEA what the facts are in this case. Niether do I or anyone else on this board. Because they have not been MADE yet. Only the opening motions have been made. The facts come out at TRIAL. You may be 100% correct that when the facts are laid out that they are not worth the time. But THAT'S WHEN the court will DECIDE that they are not worth their time, and dismiss the case. You can't dismiss a case like this BEFORE you hear the facts, and YOU can't say the case isn't hard because you haven't SEEN the "facts" yet. You get that? the facts come out AT TRIAL.
You further write "In reality, Judge Alito Jr here, he seeks glory" Nope, he is following the LEGAL WAY. He ascertains that there is smoke, and then he doesn't decide if there is a fire yet or not. He only sets a date to determine if there is a fire. That is the legal way. SOrry you wanted him to circumvent that. "That is what our resident legal poster advisor stated. " Notwithstanding your sarcasm, you don't seem to want to know the legal way things are done. You just want YOUR answer given NOW, in spite of the Fisher's day in court not being given to them yet.
Hey, I'm not even saying the Fisher's are right. I'm ONLY talking about what the PROCESS is. And you can't agree with that, even when it HAPPENS. "why are we not dismissing for lack of actual evidence? OR why not rule in favor of the first family of treasure divers? How does this judge take a sh..? " Again we are not dismissing because the facts still have to be HEARD, and this is NOT indecisiveness on the part of the judge. it is the way the system WORKS. Why not decide in favor of the Fishers? Same answer. That happens at trial, not here. This is not WHEN a decision is made. It happens at TRIAL, when the FACTS you claim to know are MADE.
One last note. not concerning legal matters. I for one don't apprecaite you using vulgarity on this forum, even if you use ".." for the last two letters of the word. Everyone knows exactly what you are saying, and it will be deleted next time you OR OTHERS use vulgarity on the board. the TOS says viulgarity is not allowed. Okay? fair warning. To EVERYONE. I didn't delete your existing message, but I am ASKING you to not use vulgarity in the future. thank you.
Okay, the case is doing exactly what it MUST do. Following the legal procedure. In spite of people wanting it to circumvent the legal process and give the answer they want, it is doing this the RIGHT way and going to trial. Then, if Jay wins, it has been adjudicated and his claim is much stronger than if it was dismissed and never sent to trial. Stop saying the judge didn't decide it because he wants glory or couldn't decide. he did what the law SAYS he must do. He set a date.
Signed, your "resident legal poster advisor" (your words)
here's how it is done. Man, I wish DPE would put out an article like this.
7/18/2012
TAMPA (AP) — Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc. says it has recovered approximately 48 tons of silver bullion from a British cargo ship sunk during WWII off Ireland's coast.
The Tampa-based company said Wednesday that the silver was recovered from the SS Gairsoppa, a British cargo ship torpedoed by a German U-boat in February 1941. The ship sits nearly 15,420 feet (4,700 meters) below the surface of the North Atlantic, about 300 miles (500 kilometers) off Ireland's coast. Records say it was carrying silver valued in 1941 at approximately 600,000 British pounds
I wish I could respond on the other board. But no one answers the doorbell when you ring to get an account over there. I had one once, but with the changes they made you had to reestablish your account, and I didn't. I tried a month ago. Still waiting for a reply. I think that is indicitive of what is happening in the entire company though.
I am more pessimistic (Not the same as bearish. Probably worse. LOL) then I've been in a long time on DPBE. I fear the worst for the investors (Although realizing that the bid would have to DOUBLE just to get to 1/10 of 1 penny per share means it's aleady SHOWING most of that fear.)
It doesn't matter what price per share a stock is trading at. Whether it be $90 per share or $0.0005. When it goes to zero, the loss is still exactly the same: 100%! Even though I am out entirely right now, I pray that doesn't happen to many of the investors here.
Warrants? the only warrant within this company should be the one for Wilf, IMHO.
alpha,
Warrants won't work because of the price. Warrants are like options in many ways. Rights to buy the stock at a set price in the future. Normally a higher price than today, but given or sold at a lesser price than today. For (A simple) example:
A stock is trading at $4.58 per share. The management gives out warrants to buy the stock at $6 per share, over a period of 18 months. Those warrants (if they are not given out as part of a package, or for in-kind services, as discussed in the next paragraph) might be sold for $0.30 per unit. Why would someone buy them? Because they don't have to put in $4.58 per share, but only put in $0.30 per share. And if the stock goes up to $9, they don't get a double, like someone owning it at $4.58 per share would, but they would exercise their warrant and buy it at $6 and still have a nice gain. If it goes down to $2.89, they don't lose all that, but just lose $0.30 per share. The warrants expire worthless.
However, - most warrants are NOT sold like that. That is more of an option, even though warrants CAN be sold like that, and that was the question originally asked. Most warrants are given out in a package. Using the same stock above, the company might want to sell a 504 offering, and offer for an accredited investor to buy 100,000 shares of the stock, restricted for a little while, at $4.35 per share (Normally a little discount to the market) and attach to that offering the rights to buy (through warrants) more stock at $6 per share for the same 18 months. THAT is how MOST warrants are issued. They normally are not just sold alone. they also can be given out to management or key employees as bonuses. that happens often too. Warrants to buy at $6 per share for 18 months so that the employees will benefit if the stock goes up.
Now - as to DPBE or ORRV selling warrants. SInce the stock price is at $0.0005, they would not be able to sell warrants (like suggested elsewhere) to purchase at 5 cents per share for a penny each. After all, why would i buy a WARRANT at 0.01 when i can buy the SHARES at .0005. No, the warrants have to be LOWER than the stock, or no one would buy the warrants. Make sense? No one would purchase a "right to buy" a stock for more than the cost to ACTUALLY buy. So, using the price today, warrants woud have to be something silly like a right to buy over the next 18 months at $0.01 or $0.02, and would COST $0.00004 or so per warrant. Just too many zeros to make it worth selling. It would bring in too little money per share, and would "reserve" the rest of the authorized shares that are not outstanding for a pittance of money.
So that's why, although some want warrants to be sold, they could not be. The price of the stock is too low. That's the only reason.
Hopefully that helps some.
Not true.
<<Eviction is a legal process, thus public records should be available. Note that NONE are ever shown or linked to.
>>
I've evicted numerous people without a legal record of it. It starts with a demand notice. Then, if they don't pay within that time frame, you file for a date in court. If the people will LEAVE BEFORE that date, I cancel the date, and they are gone. yes, they were evicted, but no, there is no record of it.
Just an FYI on a topic where you are stating something that is just not true. MOST of my evictions don't have court dates. But they are still out hte door for lack of payment, and still show as an eviction in my books.
Funding can't come from the sale of warrants.
G bert,
It's corrected itself now, but at times it happens. Only on thinly traded stocks does it last for more than a few minutes.
What happens is (Using an illustration here) a stock may have a bid of 5 and an ask of 7. Yeah, wide spread because we are talking trip 0's in front of those numbers. The bid may have 100,000 on it, and the ask has 200,000. SOmeone comes in with a market order to buy 300,000 shares. It fills the 200,000 on the ask at 7, then takes out 100,000 at 8. then it is done, and the bid is 5 and the ask is 8. SOmeone else, who has been wanting to sell at 7, sees that, and places an order to sell at 7. The ask goes back down to 7, even though the last trade is still at 8.
that's how that happens. If the stock traded more, you would see that 8 disappear as the last trade, as someone takes the new 7s and buys, or sells at 5 or does something else. But when it is thinly traded, it can show a last trade of 8 and an ask of 7.
that help?
if they bought the existing shares, the money would go to the existing owners. And that would mean no new money for DPBE and leaving us with the same debt to Wilf, the same lack of money for diving, and the same situation.
MOney would have to come into DPBE to clean it up. LIndale's debt is something most new investors would not want hanging over them. We have a market cap of our existing shares of 1.3MM and the debt is 3 times that. So owning the shares would mean Wilf still "owns" the company through the debt.
No, money would have to come to DPBE. Otherwise, it doesn't help to own the shares. Plus, the existing shareholders bought at a higher price, and would not WANT to sell at this level if new blood were coming in. Think of it for your own shares. If you heard new money and new management were coming, and the company was about to hopefully get back on track, but they wanted to buy your shares for .0005, would you ssell? Of course not. You'd be a buyer or holding pat, instead of a seller on that news.
That's why they would need new shares. Short answer (for me)