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creppie:
I have e-mailed the CEO with my questions.
I really am trying to equate how these work compared to an ADR. ADRs trade on an exchange and are priced very close to the underlying stock backing them. I cannot visualize right now why anyone would want to convert a PDR to shares, it would make much more sense to just cancel them for cash if they are worth 10X more than the stock (unless signifcant dividends were involved).
One other question I asked the CEO was about the $80M. Looking at the PR, all entities involved in the sale of these PDRs had "PayPro" in their name. Who paid who $80M and how will the $80M be reflected in the financial statements?
The CEO here appears reluctant to fully disclose terms of stock restrictions. He didn't answer the question about the restriction on the "insider" shares. He didn't clarify the terms of the restriction on these PDR shares, he only gave us the start date of the restriction, not the length of it. Full disclosure would be nice.
I'll let you know if he responds to my e-mail.
laptop: did you see this?
"Market buybacks will begin as soon as all compliance procedures are in place."
So those guys posting that the company was on the bid and/or the company bought back shares via a certain MM were wrong.
You selling today Pecunium? LOL! eom
creppie: Some of the questions really weren't answered. I was going to attempt to e-mail the CEO and find out myself. I tried e-mailing the company in the past via the website but never received a response. I saw the CEOs e-mail posted here yesterday so I will try that.
These PDRs still have me guessing. He indicates they are backed by the stock, yet they currently cost 10X more than the stock that is backing them. He also says the PDR price will fluctuate as the stock price fluctuates - will they always be worth 10X more than the stock? I'm just wondering who would ever want to cash these things for the restricted shares if the stock they will be receiving is worth 90% less than the receipt itself. Could it be that as the stock PPS increases, the PDR price per receipt increase at a slower rate so that over time the PDR price is close to the underlying stock price? And if the restricted start date is the date the receipt is canceled for the shares, when is the restriction over? He indicated a start date but never stated the length of the restriction.
BTW, thanks 4God for providing accurate information last week on the PDR re: the ratio.
Don't get me started, Cause.
14. When is it expected that the revenues listed in accounts receivable will be converted to cash?
Quote: “Who said they haven’t already? The financials are a snapshot taken on Sept. 30th”
Notice he answered the question with a question and never gave an answer. LOL!!
You want more?
causeimdaddy: Thanks for the report!
green: I did.
I recall others posting they did, as well. I think one guy was name sabai_sabai. He posted he was buying just under .004 at some point and then a couple weeks later he posted he sold at .006 or .007 for a $7k gain. He may be the only guy here I've seen who interprets the events/chart WITHOUT BIAS, his calls were pretty much on the money. While all the pumpers were telling everyone how it didn't make sense to sell even though the PPS was dipping on great news, he did and got back in 50% lower (and then sold those for profit).
Trading on faith alone can be dangerous to your account balance, IMO. As the old adage goes: trade what you see, not what you think.
Pecunium: You got a guilty conscience?
You just posted two public messages and sent me two private messages in less than five minutes, and you call ME a child? LOL!!
I did take note of the nice money you claimed to have made in SLJB. A true LONG posting on message boards that a stock was going to make people a millionaire would have been holding said stock, IMO. Wonder how you avoided the big PPS dive. Interesting.....
Just can't trust anyone on message boards. LOL!
I'll get back to PYPR now.
Not gonna argue creppie.
Pecunium made his post "millionaires will be made" on 11/6/06. I'm sure people who held that stock when it was .02 and less made some nice money (if they sold). The people holding that stock when Pecunium was pumping it got burned.
SOME were unfortunate, Creppie?
What would you guess was the percentage of millionaires made to people that lost money? And the people LONG that stock that were predicting PPS's 10x the current PPS?
LOL Pecunium.
Remember this?
"Millionaires will be made from SLJB and PYPR"
Post #4728
I think the only millionaires made in SLJB were the stock promoters and the pump-and-dumpers. How did the LONG shareholders make out?
creppie: Did they get a new PR writer?
First time I've seen them use Terrell's full name. Even the financial statements use Mike Terrell. "Micheal Scott Terrell". Did they spell Michael incorrectly or does he spell it that way? Michael Scott - isn't that the name of the manager on the TV show "The Office"?
There's also some poor grammar/spelling, they ought to proof read it before it's issued. A couple of examples:
"To clarify the planned evolution of PayPro Inc. from a pink-sheet penny stock company into a NASDAQ-listed Pan-American Enterprise and a clearly-defined forward-looking vision and Business Plan, will be re-named the PANAMERSA Corporation."
Looks like they're missing something.
"result of rumor or miss-information"
Is Miss Information pretty? LOL!
dealer: I don't know what's new with them.
I don't remember ever trading them.
laptop: indeed.
I've already stated I choose to be extremely careful so I do take pessimistic views of PRs until proven true. Some act likle that's a crime. Like I said, I've never seen a single pink/OTCBB company do everything they claimed via PR. If you know one that did, let me know.
In the long run, it really doesn't matter on which day they are buying back the shares. The financial report will tell us how many shares and at what cost. That's much more relevant than the PR, IMO.
seeclear: exactly. There are manipulative elements on both the LONG and SHORT side. People new to the markets need to understand that.
laptop: I don't interpret it that way.
The BoD initiated the program. What is the program? According to the PR: The company's board of directors has authorized management, in its discretion, to purchase up to 1 Billion shares of PYPR common stock over the next 12 months What was intiated was the authorization to buy shares at their discretion.
Yes, they could have bought shares that first day, but I don't think the text you highlighted is a definitive statement they did. The only guarantee I see is that management was authorized to buy back shares that day. Hopefully for the sake of the LONGS, management used their discretion a little more wisely because there was a pretty good price drop AFTER the program was initiated. Would hate to see them buying at .004 - .0045 when shares were going for 33% less two trading days later.
Although we won't know when they bought, the next financial statement should show how many shares were bought back (and the total cost). I say should because share buybacks are usually documented in financial statements.
LOL Cause.
There are ALL types on message boards so one really needs to be careful of EVERYONE. The paid basher supporting the short position (either MM or hedge fund), the paid promoters supporting the long position, and everyone in between. It's an odd kind of balance. The most important thing is to never base a buy/sell decision from a message board post. Do your own DD and decide for yourself.
Like I said ... entertainment value. LOL!
LOL 4God!!
New investors should also note there were a number of "seasoned investors" who agreed on the potential of SLJB. At least one of them got out before the big fall.
New investors should also keep in mind that paid promoters appear on message boards as LONGS, constantly supporting the company and treating PRs as if they were fact, suggesting even more positive "possibilities", frequently whining about shorts/MMs/daytraders killing the PPS, always recommending that the best strategy is to hold (for the huge gain), questioning why anyone would sell at a particular price, and telling anyone looking to trade that "the percentages just aren't there". On message board systems that allow moderation such as SI and iHub, you will frequently find promoters setting themselves up as moderators in an attempt to control the discussion, by either banning people that question certain aspects of the company, don't agree with their "LONG" position or by deleting on-topic posts that question information emitted by the company even though the post isn't a ToS violation.
Another "type" of message board participant is the phony LONG, displaying much the same behavior as the paid promoter, but he/she really is the parasite of the paid promoter. This person will do a lot of the things a paid promoter will do to keep the hype going, especially tell you to HOLD for the "GOLD" or buy at "such a bargain" price, yet this person will be selling into the PR rallies while you are holding for the gold. This person will rarely, if ever, discuss the details or possible negative aspects.
The bottom line is you should not trust ANYONE on a message board, nor should you ever seek buy/sell advice on a message board. A true "seasoned investor" in the "community" would not be agitated by someone seeking "information". People usually only get agitated when someone disrupts their agenda. And you should really be careful of someone that warns you only of the message board "types" that don't fit his/her own position and yet neglects to warn you of ALL types of posters.
Yes, there certainly are ALL kinds on message boards.
Kahuna: But what happens to the shares?
When an ADR is canceled, the shares held with the local bank are released back into the home market and sold to a broker. The shares backing these PDRs are restricted.
allmoney: I'll let you decide for yourself. Read PayPro's PR on the PDRs, then go look up "Depository Receipts" on your favorite search engine.
whatever: Do you honstly believe that? I haven't studied the latest 10Q but there was a blurb in an older filing which stated that none of the shares issued via this "employee stock option" program went to an employee. The company has minimal revenues via the T&A division, they need to sell these shares to pay bills (something which their IR department acknowledged in the past).
We are now at the end of the fiscal year (11/30). My guess is that neither GM nor Ford processing has begun, which means we won't see any LACC revenues until at least the 1Q '07 report, which usually comes out mid-April. The way things are going, we'll be lucky to see any then.
They need to either get going on the GM order or close the KSI deal which has dragged on for two years now (and was first reported to be closing on 01/31/05!). Investor confidence is pretty low IMO, especially with another S-8 out.
dealer: What's Neomedia? eom
4God: Would now be a good time to ask what happens to the shares when the receipts are canceled? LOL!!!!!
4God: You certainly do have a lot of free time on your hands. Digging back through my posts trying to find some Draconian agenda. I also like your selective posting of facts. Yes, I trade small positions of this stock, yet you failed to mention I also hold a LONG position in this stock. Why is that? Why shouldn't someone holding a LONG position be interested in the PDRs? And you still have not answered why an on-topic post that violated no ToS was deleted from this board. Did it have anything to do with the fact that it challenged something in the recent financial statement? I noticed when it was re-posted by the author it drew some nice discussion over the weekend, the position was challenged in a productive manner, presumably by one of the few "informed" posters.
[edit]
I now see where you have posted the PDR ratio information. Thanks for the info. Who said you can't get information from message boards?
[end edit]
The fact that there are so many "uninformed posters", as you called them, makes it even more important that the information in PRs is fully understood and that neither the "pumpers" nor the "bashers" control the discussion.
4God: what's laughable is your math and your paranoia.
Let me remind you of what you suggested: If you could buy shares on the open market for .004, slap them in a vault in Panama and use them to back the issue of PDR's at .04
Let me remind you of my example: If the RECEIPTS are priced at .04, and there are 10 shares per receipt, then those shares aren't being sold for profit if they were bought at .004.
Now please show me where I suggested they would possibly be sold for a loss? LOL!!!
It's interesting that YOU are suggesting PYPR wiil be able to sell more than 2B shares at 10X their current value to Panamanians. Got anything to back that up? Like a stock/ PDR ratio of 1:1 maybe? Since you claim you know, why not tell us? You do seem to have a direct line with the CEO based on all the e-mails and phone calls you post about here.
4God: Do you know the ratio of shares per receipt for the PDRs?
The structure of a PDR includes a ratio, which correlates with the amount of PayPro shares to the receipt.
Cause: I look at stocks like this with extreme caution, I am a realist. I know people like to get excited and dream about the big $$ the company says they are/will be making and the big rise in PPS that will ensue. I "curb my enthusiasm" by looking back at all pink/OTCBB companies I've traded over the past four - five years and realize that not a single company has turned out like the picture painted in the PRs. Most aren't even close. There may be some companies that do come through, but I'd wager that is a very tiny percentage. Maybe PYPR will come through, we'll see how it plays out.
laptop:
messages 11840, 11944, 11949
4God, The only questions is:
how many shares are in one receipt? And exactly what is priced at .04, is that per share of common stock or per receipt? I guess we'll find out when that question gets asked the CEO next week.
If the RECEIPTS are priced at .04, and there are 10 shares per receipt, then those shares aren't being sold for profit if they were bought at .004.
The only thing S-8 signals is delays/dilution. Since they can't get started with their product, they have to sell shares to stay alive.
causeimdaddy, please add this to the question list regarding the PayPro Depository Receipts:
What is the ratio structure? (i.e. How many shares of stock are in one receipt)? Is it the Receipt that is priced at .04?
Thanks.
FillTheGap: Hit my limit yesterday, couldn't reply.
I didn't see any replies to gecko on 11/17 after he posted (other than name-calling). Apparently he engaged in subsequent discussions over the weekend/Monday morning which I had not seen (sorry, I don't read most of the weekend stuff). He explained how he came up with the position that the commissions were doubtful accounts but it didn't make sense to me, I don't think the amount would have been listed the way it was if what he is saying was true.
I was just reading some of the older financial reports and am still trying to make sense of some of the share issuances, the timelines seem off (like how did they issue 100,000,000 shares of common stock for acquisitions late June '05 when they R/S'd on June 1st and had only 200k common A/S? The 50-1 F/S didn't occur until mid-July '05.).
laptop: Sorry for no response, hit my 15 post limit.
I'll get back to you later on this.
Happy Thanksgiving all! eom
thomas: Yes, with free shares only at the moment.
Been flipping shares like a trapeze artist lately as the volatility and liquidity are nice. Sold Wednesday for a profit on shares obtained Monday/Tuesday at .004 and .003.
Be careful there, could be another typical pink sheet scam, I'm somewhat skeptical of the company based on recent PRs/events. I'll follow it for awhile to see if they are on the up-and-up - hard to tell at this point.
BTW, they love me on their message board when I question things. LOL!!!
thomas: no info at this time.
joboos contacted me on the PYPR board and asked for my e-mail and phone #. I *think* he is also a local guy to Dan/me and I *think* he is a large shareholder (~8M shares). Could be wrong ... but if we make contact ... I'll let you know of anything relevant.
I haven't spoken to Dan in quite a while, he had some kind of surgery and his brother was ill last I heard a few weeks ago.
joboos: I sent you e-mail. eom
laptop: Go back on this board to the day after the PR about the buyback was released. Read some posts.
laptop: Message boards are one source of information.
There's actually some good boards on iHub where information above and beyond PRs can be gained. You can also get good information on corporate financing and the industry a particular company is in. There's also an "entertainment" value as some things are quite comical.
This board reminds me more of SI or RB where pumpers/cheerleaders whine and cry "basher" as soon as someone questions something. Particularly interesting was when Gecko showed up with an on-topic post that viloated no ToS, yet the post was deleted because it questioned the accounting of the recent financial release. Yet no one could refute anything he posted as being inaccurate, just the usual cries of "basher".
Unfortunately, there aren't too many informed posters here, so information is scarce. I've gotten a few tidbits, and contributed a couple of questions to ask the CEO next week, so I will get my information. Then I will continue to watch progress to see if the company follows up on the information in PRs and what the CEO says at his shareholder meeting. If you don't like my posts, then put me on ignore, no one's forcing you to read my opinions.
Cause: I'm suggesting they may not buy back any because that is a possibility. There's nothing subtle or manipulative about it, it's fact. The ones you should be questioning are the ones who are flat out stating they are buying back shares on the bid. Have you ever questioned those people as to how they know this? Have they seen the orders? Has the CEO told them? What's THEIR motivation for telling people the company is buying back shares on the bid? But you question me because I swing trade. Interesting......