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I do not need insider information to tell you that we are not a part of LBHI equity. Come on bro, you think we are LBHI equity?
LBHI equity is in class 12. We are in class 10B. We are equity of our Capital Trusts. We are not equity of LBHI. LBHI holds the commons shares to our CTs. Thats all. You can argue that we are subsidiary at best. I will repeat, we are not equity of LBHI.
Come on, after all this time you mean to tell me that you think we are LBHI Equity? Even that Quasi status is gone because our guarantee got disallowed and expunged. BRO!
Swiss, ECAPS got a settlement from LBHI. What do the CTs have? We have a guarantee that was disallowed and expunged in 2011. We are looking straight at discharge without that guarantee.
Tell me Swiss, what do we have?
1st you have to understand that I did not go to court. All I did was join the Class Action group. I am rooting for the 4 Ws to win because I agree with Rex that there currently is not a guarantee for us and that we will get discharged without that guarantee. I also base that we will get discharged by the actions and comments of the court and what the Plan Administrator said throughout his responses and during the hearings.
I do my research. I rather have a Redemption or a reclass. The ECAPS will benefit more from the UK Litigation.
Good strategy.
I noticed for the CTs, the ask did not change much from the pre delist price but the bid dropped to subpennies. What does that tell you?
With all the sell talk, I am still looking to buy. So, if anyone knows how we as Americans can buy, let me know. At these prices, I am willing to pay a reasonable fee.
Good question. Lol. I was going to ask that with my reply.
Thanks, but I decline. My basis is like 12k. I have fnf gains where I can offset the losses with if I sell or if the shares become worthless.
If and after I write them off you guys can have my shares for free but you guys will have to do all the logistics.
Yes, but if they win I get 50% of your gains.
Take the advice of your fanboy. I will take even match like fanboy said. If Wu wins, you give me 150k shares. If he loses, I will give you 150k shares. Lol. Thats your fanboy's level of genius.
We can do docusign.
Why cant I just click on your name and read your fnf research? Lets keep fnf out of this. Fnf made me good money. I like where I am at with them.
Can you post Wu's District Court Motion? I only got notes on a few items of interest.
Swiss. Keep your money. I will give you all my shares plus 100 bucks if all lawsuits are lost.
If any lawsuits win, you give me 50% of your gains. You think sexy rexy is full of crap anyways. Thats fair.
If you agree, confirm and I will confirm after.
You get an extra 100 dollars from me plus all my CT shares. If there is a settlement, I win too because it arises from the 4Ws lawsuits.
Somewhat news: Wu is no longer answering questions. He said he will communicate through the Investors United Group if he has something to say. Oh well. Good luck to us all.
Honestly, I only got 150k shares. If they lose, I will write it off and give them to you if you agree. Taking your 50 dollars will actually hurt me. Lol
Look Swiss, this CT play is my side hussle . My real play is in fnf. I am cool with a total loss here. It wont effect me a bit. All this drama is interesting to me. I have nothing to lose and all to gain with the Class Action against the Trustee and this remaining lawsuit from Wu.
Good luck to you. Please do not hold your breath on the j shares. Odds are against a reorg if there is one with recycled shares. And plus, if we dont have the guatantee, its all over anyways. We will get discharged.
Fnf is on a nice rebound from its lows. I was able to buy both the jps and commons of both companies at the 3s 50s and about .80s for commons.
So far so good, no complaints.
I will make you a deal right here. If they win, which is only Wu left at the District Court, you will give me 50% of your gains. If they lose, I will give you 100 bucks and all my shares. Confirm this and I will confirm after. You should take it.
We can write up a simple contract and do a docusign.
I premium for fnma vs fmcc closed for a good month now. Even the preferreds are somewhat mirroring their counterpart.
Lol. Again, everyone here knows you don't have a clue on what is happening. Is it over? To someone like you, it might as well be.
Yes. I Agree. I just did not have the reference. You do here. Thanks.
If LBHI have 0 dollars and billions in debt, they will not do an ipo. A new company will not be formed or can be formed.
If your premise is that the new company will have 0 dollars/assets and only debt, then they dont need an ipo.
If there are assets or value remaining for the new company they will do what all reorg chp 11 bk companies like GM and wamu, etc fid, they will have an ipo and distribute the shares to the creditors. Possibliby im GM's case 2 IPOs.
I do not think offer recycled shares of the old company for a new company is possible. Even if it is, why? You want a fresh start and not the baggage of the old company.
Besides, when weil suggested it, it was shot down. You posted an exception and those are for non voting shares like preferreds. I believe chapman said they can offered those j shares to lbhi during the bk, not post bk and only to them during the bk. Jmho. For whatever its worth.
I am not talking about the j shares that no one wants.
Any new company formed or spinoff will be with new shares. I have yet to see a spin off or a new company from a bk company use recycled shares of anything. Not GM, Wamu, etc etc. Recycle shares are not the clean break that people want.
I am not here to argue that. That point is moot to me.
Stock distribution.
All classes include senior classes. All classes that are not paid in full will be discharged. That is how it usually works in a bk.
Swiss, I do not believe we will survive the discharge. I do not believe in any NOL plays anymore. If there is a hypothetical NOL company the assets will be the DTAs. But, LBHI said they will utilize all the NOLs to offset the discharge. That is on the BS footnotes for the past few years.
I do not think those j shares are worth anything sitting in class 12.
Lehman at the end will discharge all classes. If there is a surviving entity, those shares would be distributed to the senior creditors before the discharge.
That is what I believe in. Even that (the nol company) needs the Guarantee which we do not have for us to have any chance at it.
Have a good weekend. Good luck to us all.
Are the conditions that you are referring to listed on the order? I do not recall any conditions where LBHI is allowed to change the equity structure on the order. I will have to double check. It wont be this weekend though.
You have enough key words to search for it on the dockets. I will post it when I have time.
The bright side is we are not subordinated to subordinated debt securities of lbhi or any of its affiliates or subs.
The UK Litigation is full of subordinated debts.
We are in a hole. We are not dead. Its not over until the 4 Ws give up. It seems far from it because of their two fronts with LBHI and the BNYM. That is good news for us.
Good Luck to us all. V
Last comment. The J shares are class 12. Ecaps and others dont want them.
They cant be used anyways per Judge Chapman. It was ruled that LBHI cannot modify and change the LBHI equity structure. Come on dude, this is basic info if you did even the slightest dd into the ecaps.
Good luck to us all. V
I am not sure what direction the 4 Ws are taking this. I only have about 150k shares so I am not that invested here. My plays are in Fannie and freddie.
I do not pretend that I know it all with Lehman. I try to learn as much as I can. I contacted the 4 Ws one time and two of them are responsive. They will only talk about non case stuff with me. I learned alot. I also try to verify what they tell me.
I will tell you this. Today, I verified the guarantee. Our Guarantees are expunged and disallowed. That is a fact. You and toogood can chose to not accept this fact and continue with your scenarios. That is fine. But, I will tell you this, if the 4 Ws dont prevail, any scenario that involves the guarantees will not happen which includes your NOL company. You guys can bash me all you like, I am just posting what I learned from Rex and my DD. Please do double check and verify yourself. I did.
As of right now and until Rex can win in the District Court, the Guarantees are gone. Non existent. That is the truth. Its right there for you to DD on the 2011 order by Judge Peck. No need to attack me. Anyone can just look it up. I did.
Good luck to us all. V
Sure, I will be waiting.
Are you making up stuff now? My answer to you is a straight up NO. The reclass was for a higher class like a guarantee class.
This is what I mean about talking to people like you and toogood. You just make up stuff as you go along not knowing what is going on.
Only people like you want to be reclassed down to class 12. Lol. Whatever, like I
said, do some DD.
The guarantee is expunged. Live with it. All your scenarios are now down the toilet. That is a stone cold fact for you.
What is the collusion? Please state specically. LBHI wanted to issue the equity shares to ecaps and company and they all objected and said no. The ruling is that lbhi cannot issue new shares. That is what I am saying. What is the collusion?
Okay, keep dreaming about how the guarantee is not expunged along with our guarantee claim and your scenarios. You have no clue. Lucky for you the 4Ws will carry you too if they win. Lol.
I will selectively answer the two main questions. I am not avoiding the rest. Its because I am responding from my phone. And I have things to do.
Why are we fighting? For RV based on parity payouts of affiliates or subs as also covered by the covenants. 2. Utilize the dividend stopper and ultimately if we can abate the 2011 order, our guarantee claim will be reinstated giving us atleast that reclass waske and wu sought. So RV and reclass.
2. Ecaps and the others turned down the j shares because its equity and equity is not expected to get anything. Its class 12 swiss. It has no value and the plan admin was finding ways to not pay the ecaps. They saw it and said no. class 12 imo is getting discharged.
WE NEED THE GUARANTEE. That is the bottomline.
We might want to clear this up. I used up my quota with Rex for this week. So, maybe you can dd and report back to us as a favor.
My understanding of quasi or hybrid is that the CT are debt (which we both agree on) and the potential to be ranked in parity of with lbhi's equity or the most senior of lbhi's affiliates.
And not because we are equity within our trust.
Have a good weekend. I am ordering a nice meal in for my family. We try not to dine out as much nowadays.
ALL OF WHICH IS OWNED BY BARCLAYS. THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR NAME IF THEY CONTINUE AS A GOING CONCERN! LBHI THEMSELVES ARE A SUBSIDARY OF BARCLAYS!
LBHI is not a sub or Barclays. No. Barclays only bought the brokerage of Lehman.
3. I am not sure how the NOL scenario plays into LBIE.
Huh??
I do not understand the NOL scenario which you guys are talking they will have assets. Some said from LBIE as I recall.
WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR IF LBHI HAS NO MONEY?????
Lucky for us, we have the 4Ws fighting for us. We as you folks who trash the 4Ws are not fighting for anything but just debating scenarios. And most of your facts and scenario can not happen without the guarantee. Be glad the 4Ws will carry you guys too if they win.
NOT TRASHING!!! we just actually follow the events. ECAP holders filed their motion when the LBIE distributions were over!!! That is when they fought! And mind you ECAPS ARE STILL BEING LITIGATED AND THAT SURPLUS WAS RECONGIZED IN 2014 HERE IS THE LINK!::;
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/05/lehman-brothers-administrators-surplus-creditors-paid
ECAPS HAVENT GOTTEN PAID YET!!! IT IS HEDGE FUNDS WHO BOUGHT THEM OUT AT A PREMIUM!!! A HEDGE FUND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING LEHMAN RELATED THEY SIMPLY BOUGHT IT AS AN INVESTMENT ON THE COURT PROCEEDINGS THAT IS IT!
HIGHWAY, the wise thing to do is orchestrate this EXACTLY how deutsche bank and king street and others did and that is at the end of the distributions. ecap holders did not file anything during the middle of the LBIE bankrutpcy. they would havent ended up exactly how the "4 ws" did i can promise you that.
The bottomline is ECAPs were in the money before they even filed the LBHI lawsuit. The ECAPs route is different than CTs in that the LBHI payout is gravy. ECAPs won. Thats good. Or should I say settled. The only thing for CT holders to follow is the treatment of their guarantee and how that effects us if our guarantee is in effect. And their settlement terms.
Lets say you are 100% correct. for the sake of everything, you are 100% correct on that. that would imply the CT's whole prospectus is not relevant, meaning CT's would have a right to convert to equity since it is now only debt. correct? and if that is the case CT's may recieve the J shares LBHI was trying to give ECAPS. because at that point who else would get them?
If there is no guarantee, why would they give the CTs anything? Its more clean to discharge. I am not following the J shares talk so I do not know how they supposedly play into this. Where would the j shares get its value? Class 10 through 12 will be all discharged. If there is a surviving company, it will go to the senior creditors. If the NOLs are not utilized with the discharge, they can use the NOL exception rule and replace equity with creditors and still keep the NOLs.
All is not lost. Why do you think the 4Ws are fighting this hard if we got the guarantee? We need to abate that 2011 order to disallow and expunge our guarantee. Read the order.
Also get that insurance policy buddy. Its FREE!
That is what sexy rexy said. He is not afraid of sanctions at all. The sanction treat motivated him and pissed him off. Lol
I will answer base on my understanding. If I were you, I would email Rex with that question. He normally responds with 24-48 hours.
1. LBHI does not own LBIE. LBHI2 owns under 50% interest of LBIE. LBHI owns majority of LBHI2, if not all.
2. LBIE going concern is good news for LBHI2/LBHI but LBHI2 is not the majority holder. We will see money but imo, we will eventually sell our lbhi2 shares and take the cash for distributions.
3. I am not sure how the NOL scenario plays into LBIE.
4. ECAPs have two payouts. One in the UK and one with LBHI. ECAPs was already in the money in the UK before the LBHI lawsuit. The US Bk payout is gravy to the ECAPs. ECAPs is compared to the CTs because of their Guarantee.
5. Both ECAPs and LBIE are relevent to the CTs, if our guarantee survives. Right now, its expunged. ECAPs is relevent because of the parity, covenants and their guarantee. LBIE is relevent because all the UK litigation stuff are subordinated debt waterfall and we are only subordinated to senior debts and senior debts do not include subordinated debt securities. LBIE is huge for us all around from guarantee/parity, covenants to subordination.
All these hinges on the guarantee.
I believe LBIE is also good for us in 10b. But, we have to fight for it. Or better yet, the 4 Ws are fighting for us while you folks trash them thinking there is an automatic pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Without the 4 Ws, we get discharged.
One more thing, the discharge provision that you guys quote currently is expunged
Without the guarantee being restated or Rex knocking out the order we are done.
LBIE is key. As Rex stated, "senior debt does not include subordinated debt securities". We needed to have the guarantee claim to be classed higher to get our dues but, its expunged.
Alright, I see how you guys are. Fine, I have no problems not posting here. I will just communicate with the people who are actually doing something and understands what is truly happening here. Its actually you guy's lost. Good luck.
You need to know what you bought. There is an allowed subordinated debt 10b claim. There was a guarantee claim but it was expunged. I never said our worthless 10b subordinated claim was expunged. It will be discharged though. LBHI said they will use the discharge.
Please like some here, do not take my words and twist it around to suit a purpose.
I am only telling you guys what the Ws are telling me. If you don't want to hear it, I can stop. Which I did for awhile. Until you folks got me talking about it again.
The past few weeks, I was just posting on how to buy shares? That was all. Relax people with your attacks.
Call with Rex and my response to your post
We do not need the Guarantee to trade. Our Guarantee claim is expunged per Rex as with that, our Guarantee is not recognized in the BK court.
But, don't worry the 4 Ws will try to fix that.
Btw, Rex said sanctions will not stop the truth from coming out. He sees sanctions as Judge Chapman along with her cohort the Plan Admin trying to censor him. It will not work. If Rex sees fit and have something to request from the BK court, he will file another motion in Chapman's court. He said that is also the best form of documentation, lol. He will not stop exercising his rights to do so because of Chapman's threats. He will make sure everything gets reviewed in and outside of the court system by all checks and balances involved. Just like Chapman can sanction him, he can file judicial reviews!! Lol. I like this guy!!
We need to pay to read Rex's motion at the District Court. Did anyone buy it? Care to share?
Per my call with Rex.
One of the Ws told me that LBHI and the courts do not recognize our guarantees. And that our Guarantee claims are disallowed and expunged. In the eyes of the court, we do not have a guarantee. Their actions proves this as well.
Those who believe in a NOL company and that we will get shares of that company seems to not understand this fact.
If our guarantee is expunged, we have nothing but a true subordinated debt sitting in class 10b which are expected to get nothing and awaiting discharge. A discharge LBHI said it will use.
I hope you guys bought that free insurance policy.