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SilverSurfer, Right - supply & demand is the main force in
establishing gold's price and nearly all things with few exceptions.
I'm curious about the amount of gold sold from U.S. reserves to cap gold's price through the years. IF it's been a huge amount as some think, then true supply and demand have not been in operation.
Several analyst such as the London Trader and James Turk have stated the reserves used to suppress gold are running *very low* and deliveries could soon be in question. Without this (manipulative) supply the manipulators will loose a crucial tool.
If this happens and deep pocket investors continue to become more worried about world-wide inflation I suspect we could witness a major price increase in gold.
SilverSurfer, the author of the linked Seeking Alpha article initially states there is a dilemma in arriving at gold's value. After taking the reader through some seemingly narrow methods of estimating value he suggests some sort of value based on housing. : ))
I wish the author had mentioned the U.S. debt to U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) ratio numbers going back 40 years. It would have shown the debt to GDP ratio has skyrocketed from 150% in 1970 to about 400% presently and gaining momentum ! Our debt to GDP ratio is presently more - a lot more - than in the Great Depression !
Another system of evaluation is what Mike Maloney describes as reconciling total dollars created to gold reserves. Best I can tell Mike Maloney is a good currency historian and according to him the market always has and will create its own way of defining the value of gold&silver. If this is true the market
will establish the proper value.
White Cobra, yep, as a journalist you well know the news media is a past master at delivering only news it wants its audience to see & hear. And in bringing certain stories that might be negative to favored players they carefully weave their way around the unflattering points accentuating the positive aspects re. their fair haired persons/issues. It's all so subtle and (usually) well accomplished viewers never suspect the bias.
The steady stream of this kind of editing which has been in progress for many decades continues to support economic, political, social and religious changes that seem unwise and possibly disastrous.
White Cobra, do you trust Big Media ?
Big Media has become a poorly shrouded mouth piece for Big Government, Big Banks and our Federal Reserve. Standard logic of the ages as applied to economics and other important things has been stood on is ear with Big (News) Media's constant support.
Remember this is an election year and additional currency printing will buy lipstick, rouge, deodorant, and a griddle for our grossly overweight (due to unabated currency printing) ugly pig of an
economy.
The present administration/big banks/Fed' is already in the process of manipulating unemployment numbers, pumping fiat currency/funny money into the economy and telling Big Media to tell us the pig is beautiful.
With the above in full force during the next 7 months the chance of a coordinated downward manipulation effort of precious metals pricing is elevated. However, there are growing factors that could mitigate a large sustained take down.
One of my favorite silver analyst James Turk
hasn't figured out when some of the price
manipulators are about to yank the rug from underneath
the price : )
In Turk's March 29/30 interview he stated if gold finished
the week above 1650 & silver above 32 their corrections ought
to be completed. I'm figuring Turk's analysis is possibly in the general vicinity of being correct.
A couple of things seem reasonable to assume.
The first is that debt piled on more debt doesn't solve a debt problem unless the additional debt provides a solid economic base which will catapult sustainable economic growth. Unfortunately U.S. debt has surpassed the point of no return due to the enormous interest paid on the debt.
The second assumption is increasing taxes and piling on additional layers of federal regulations will only retard the efforts of sustainable growth via printing and injecting currency into certain
areas of the economy.
Bottom line: More veiled currency printing this election year will move gold&silver prices higher with the current cabal BigBanks/FederalReserve/corrupt politicians continuing attempts
to suppress gold&silver prices.
Hope I'm right :)
SilverEagle, seems like good advice - think long term, develop a comfortable pace and (my 2 bits) view artificially low prices as a limited opportunity to stack more ozs.
This long drawn out (manipulated) consolidation of nearly a year is simply a brief time in the big picture that's allowed economic fundamentals to worsen. Both Jim Sinclair and James Turk say the long gold&silver consolidation has established a needed great base from which both metals will move through old highs then substantially higher.
wer123, exactly. lol
wer123, actually don't care about the manipulation
per se because it's allowed us to buy at great discounts.
Just p*sses me of to see the ease of probable overt illegal price
manipulation by deep pockets. Just looked an see the dollar
spiked up a bit possibly supplying the trigger for silver's
spike down. Still suspect a snake in the woodpile.
Watching today's silver action reminds me of
the crowd that watched the Hindenburg Blimp
burn and crash.
Early nice move up then a .70 drop in 25 minutes.
Silver is such a small , easy market to
manipulate. Sigh
Stinky pinky, some of your gold dredging ideas seem a combo of
trial and error, hard work & engineering know-how alright : ). Like
a few others, wish I could do what you've got planned in a few weeks.
Re. your linked June 2010 Hugo-Salinas Price article, it's a terrific concise post WW II economic history lesson. Price rightfully describes how the U.S.' Free World Trade ideas have helped create worldwide economic chaos. He continues by carefully outlining how the U.S. for an extended time has abused its world reserve currency status by creating a Carte Blanche fantasy-world where we bought foreign products paying with essentially counterfeit (freshly printed) U.S. currency.
These are just a couple of topics he writes about and there are more.
Price has sympathy for the average citizen and often blends economic history to show how it impacts individuals.
Stinky pinky, WOW, your first link lead to a nice library of Hugo-Salinas Price essays/articles in which he deals with historical currencies, present social & psychological aspects of fiat currencies and silver&gold's rightful place within currency structures.
I especially enjoyed his 2007 (somewhat lengthy) article on why Iran should reinstate the monetization of silver. This essay offers interesting information coupled with reasoned logic many on this board will likely appreciate.
I'm looking forward to reading the dozens of essays he has written.
White Cobra & other Precious Metals Investors Club board readers, it might? be several years before the U.S. dollar looses the bulk of its present value and we could? see several bull and bear gold&silver markets of varying degrees of time and price between now and when these metals reach peak value. As (real:) inflation increasingly eats away our discretionary investment money it will become important for some to incorporate unique ways to accumulate these precious metals.
White Cobra and Stinky pinky have outlined two unique ways. Have I missed any other alternative ways to straight bullion purchases ?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Stinky pinky, speaking of bringing back the silver dollar you got to love Hugo-Salinas Price one of the wealthiest persons in the world. In yesterday's King World News he stated Bernanke was like a vampire and Ron Paul was facing the vampire with a silver coin instead of a bullet.
Price has been campaigning for Mexico to return to using silver for quite some time. He says it's grossly unfair the average Mexican can't protect their savings from inflation.
The interview is still up on King World News.
In yesterday's King World News interview with James Turk
he stated that should gold and silver end this week above
1650. and 32. respectively it would be safe to assume this tedious
correction of precious metals correction is over.
This is an encouraging prediction from a well seasoned analyst.
White Cobra, several on this board - including myself - know what it's like being on a slim budget and staring at what might be the best
opportunity of a lifetime to invest in silver. Thanks to you and a few others for describing creative ways to acquire silver & gold. I appreciate those sharing details of your efforts and wish ya'll great success.
Stinky pinky, nice article from someone who has a
good memory of the setup just prior to the last time
silver&gold made sustained big runs.
While the flood of recent money printing has calmed
most markets - including precious metals - smart
investors realize the economic liability of the
massive printing and are moving to protect assets
with gold&silver.
Or as Mike Maloney would say...gold&silver are taking
an accounting of the amount of fiat currency and
balancing the books via an increase in the value
of gold&silver.
Stinky pinky, Our news media isn't inclined to report things that might put Obama in a less than a flattering light.
What I've read puts Obama's Sec' of Treasury Timmy boy up to his eye balls in the JP Morgan Chase theft of MF Global segregated accounts. And then there's our Federal Reserve bailing out the ECB (in an indirect way of course). And we know - or ought to know - this money will disappear like a fart in the wind leaving U.S. taxpayers liable. Occupy wall street has effectively been raked over the coals by the news media's 'flattering' accounts of OWS's lunatic fringe , then literally crushed by Big NY City banks hired thugs aided by NY City's finest.
Nope, there's no news in any of the above topics that most folks want to hear about : ))
Stinky pinky. Willie doesn't leave much out :) As an extension of the information he offered I'm visualizing the United States becoming:
a government/Marxist (do nothing) economy "Marxist morons do what they do best, ruin industries amidst elevated crowd support and noise from the dumbest sections of society".
a country that lost its position of having the world's reserve currency. It's estimated when this happens prices will move upward roughly 25%.
a country with worthless fiat currency unable to sufficiently create a new currency of value because it unloaded its gold reserves attempting to support the dollar's value during a time of rapid dollar printing.
The Chinese are gobbling up gold and well on their way to having the world's reserve currency. And it's now apparent that many of the U.S'.'friends' are willing to dump the dollar and trade with China.
SilverS', right - good buying op'. Thanks, Moolman is always interesting.
White Coba Regarding silver's weakness today maybe Turd Ferguson will offer us some insight. Might just be the high speed computer trading setting up to make a few bucks.
Stinky Pinky, You're right. Obama will not jeopardize his reelection via the U.S. initiating a war with Iran which could drive oil prices through the roof. Jim Rickards recently wrote that U.S. troops in Israel are manning a protective shield against Iranian missiles. This will help garner a few additional Jewish votes from U.S. Jews that care about Israel.
Doug Casey's idea that 'politics' draws sociopaths to it like a magnet has much credibility. What are we to do ? Vote the current crop out and elect a fresh, new group of sociopaths in ?
Back to silver & gold...wanting these metals to dramatically
increase in price unfortunately seems to be attached to the further demise of our country with its once great liberties and way of life.
Yes, I saw the article re. sale of the upgraded bunker busters.
The original super bunker busters were 30,000 lb bombs before
getting a recent update.
No doubt that information was released for 'affect' in any or all:
domestic politics, U.S.-Iranian game of brinksmanship, international diplomacy, war strategy.
Closer to the theme of this board our government's suppression of precious metals pricing is only one small part of its support
of the Dollar's value.
White Cobra, If Isreal attacked Iran Obama couldn't be blamed (much) for whatever ensuing role the U.S. might take. The situation has more twists & turns than a soap opera.
While the U.S. has lost much good will and prestige the last few years it still has the most powerful military in the world and (sad to say) has shown it will use its military to achieve certain economic goals.
jt6455, yep, so many ways to examine situations :) Possible scenarios are endless. I'm guessing financial entities have and will continue to pull the strings and that politicians can be an expendable resource in achieving their goals.
White Cobra, The analyst I mentioned stated a war would initially knock silver&gold prices down. My
suggestion was to keep some cash on hand to take advantage
of any knee-jerk drop in precious metals.
Since the U.S. and its European allies blocked Iran's use
of the World's clearing house located in Europe to transact
payments for oil (and other things) Iran has chosen to accept gold and currencies other than the Dollar. Not using the Petro Dollar for oil payments is a big no-no and is thought to have prompted two wars and the removal of dictators in Iraq and Libya.
Several countries considered our friends have agreed to buy
Iranian oil using either gold or currencies other than the Dollar. India has agreed to buy Iran's oil for gold. China, South Korea & Japan will apparently use their currencies in payment.
Does the U.S. really want to twist the arms of our allies ?
Seems to me another war to protect the Petro Dollar is probably in order. A successful war against Iran could again reinforce the use Of the Petro Dollar AND possibly save the U.S. from fully alienating India, S.Korea & Japan.
Was reading the Art Cashin interview presently on King World News and he says if war erupts in Iran a rush to dollars and a sudden huge stock market drop could occur.
Can't remember which analyst several weeks ago said if war happens its likely silver/gold prices would initially drop in price. This seems to be an extension of what Cashin is saying.
It might be wise to keep some dry powder in reserve in the event of war.
Pro-Life, Your proxy point is well taken as the tail is wagging the dog. Too bad our government is run by Big Banking interest.
Pro-Life, nice article you posted. I've previously mentioned
China (sad to say) will likely be the guarantor of good silver prices. It certainly appears JP Morgan Chase is one of several U.S. government proxies engaged in protecting the U.S. Dollar/Petro Dollar via keeping both silver & gold prices down.
Yep, Gainsville is no longer listed on Compare Silver Prices. I've wondered why Westminster has never been listed. Often Westminster has its 1 oz. Morgan round at a lower price than the lowest priced 1 oz Buffalo round shown by Compare S' P'.
Presently Westminster has its 1 oz. Morgan Round @ 34.05 and Compare S' P's lowest Buffalo round is 34.37 by Liberty.
However, right now Gainsville is showing its Buffalo 1 oz. round @ 33.85.
If one wants to save a little it usually pays to look around before buying.
Airing this WeekEnd..FSN Special on Silver Manipulation featuring Ted Butler, Bart Chilton, David Morgan, Eric Sprott
When the manipulation ends Butler says silver will....
Interesting audio interviews with host Jim Puplava
http://www.financialsense.com/
Bix Weir is suggesting something potentially big Mar.19
related to default derivatives (I think). We'll see.
White Cobra, Thanks for your offer. A help guide would be great as I'm starting off from ground zero. Yesterday I Googled 'sterling silver' and was surprised to learn it's 92.5% silver and that there's a half dozen designations stamped on 'silverware' indicating 92.5% silver.
W' Cobra, I'm learning from you and others on this board about
creative ways to acquire precious metals. Re. silver/sterling
silver there are lots of smallish towns and cities- 500 to 20,000
population - near where I live with numerous second-hand
thrift stores to explore.
Descriptions of techniques and information from yourself and others are appreciated.
The U.S. debt is at $16,000,000,000,000 (16 trillion) and rapidly growing. With future entitlements included the estimated debt is figured over $ 100,000,000,000,000 (100 trillion) and rapidly growing. With roughly 40% of U.S. budget funded with borrowed currency (which is about to end) the rabbit hole leads to exclusively printed U.S. currency to fund government's appetite. Future debt numbers appear to be beyond comprehension. There is no way out of printing zillions of dollars short of a total default. So...when the Bernak says he sees no need of Q3 and our Pravda like U.S. news media insinuates things are well
remember it's all part of a Fed' propaganda game.
As Mike Maloney likes to offer, Gold and silver periodically audit the currency (count) and increase in value to balance the books.
If we think as long term gold/silver investors the manipulation has helped us accumulate more ounces. It's likely when the end game plays out the number of ounces will be most important.
Let um manipulate the prices down. I'll just be able to accumulate
more : ))
Sooner or later I suspect the Chinese will guarantee a very high value on gold & silver.
Very interesting that last week the CME's CEO announced his retirement (at 49 yrs of age). At the same time the CME's request to step down as a European derivatives clearing organization was OK'd by its buddy the CFTC.
Today it's Greg Smith of Goldman Sacs who's retiring as executive director of Goldman Sacs' derivatives business in Europe, Africa and the Middle East.
Both individuals appear to be getting out of Dodge before some very interesting derivative events occur : ))
For Consideration: http://goldsilver.com/news/just-in-e-mail-from-bix-weir-cme-withdraws-from-european-derivative-responsibilities/
Sounds as if CME boss quit/retired (in late 40s) before his ship entered the Bermuda Triangle. lol
Jim Willie's latest public article 03/09/12 Handicapping the Collapse includes Greek Tragedy turns into Con Game Farce , Physical Gold Drainage Backfire , absurdity of $ Trillion USGovt Deficit Locks 0% Rate , Destructive Damage of 0% Rate , Heavy Reliance on Monetary Inflation and much more. Willie is his usual no BS self.
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jim-willie/handicapping-the-collapse
So for today USD up about .50 (.0062%) and silver up about .95 (2.8%).
Often certain logic doesn't seem to work very good predicting moves in silver : ) However, there's plenty of trading time left in the day.
A critique of Andrew Maguire's thinking regarding a new Chinese Silver Exchange being the silver arrow in the heart of bullion banks'
paper manipulation:
http://goldsilver.com/news/my-take-on-andrew-maguire-s-silver-arrow/
The author of this audio commentary suggests what's often crossed my mind. It's possible silver's increase in price will continue lagging behind negative events due to bullion banking's manipulative power AND that silver pricing will eventually have a rapid price increase when the masses' fear factor goes beyond a 'tipping' point.
Stinky_pinky, appreciate your 28.50 guesstimate as I'm nearing another small purchase of rounds.
I still play with Fibonacci Summation Series ratios trying to make sense of silver's tops & bottoms even though my calculations consistently miss the mark. lol