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Stogie or Ida, or anyone, please respond to this thread (see the post I'm replying to) and let me know how I misunderstood those revenue/sales PRs or in what way I'm off base.
First you have to read those PRs and then view the 2Q filing of 2008 & 2009. Please get back to us about how those items shouldn't cause doubts about current-day claims.
Seriously, I'd really like to be able to fully believe the claims made at any given point in time. That would be a nice change.
Ida, That is message board crap. There are no bashers or pumpers here; this is one of the most fair boards possible. Although, you do seem to prefer one-sided sentiment.
Ida, Regarding the view of "today"...
To stick with that theme, have you ever looked at the April, May, and June 2009 revenue/sales PRs? Honestly, have you read them? Please do. Then, go look at the 2Q 2009 filing on otcmarkets.com
Were revenues up or down, in the Q filing, as compared to same period prior year? Next, recall what the PRs said. Did the PRs say sales & revs were up or down? You might want to do that bit of homework, then maybe you'll understand why people are inclined to analyze the wording due to what many could feel was misrepresentation. Or just slick wording to make a positive spin.
Do you think people bought shares based on the co saying sales/revs were up, when in reality they were down? Hmmmm.
trade, Good post. I'd love to hear some positives and also some proof of them. It would be fun to actually see something that's got some staying power from a credibility standpoint as far as customers, projects, booked sales, official studies, industry kudos, etc.
zimmy, They don't understand. They are new, and they sound like some of us from a couple years or few years ago. You know what would have been great? To sell out on that Fairbanks pump when the stock went over .09 last fall. We all had the chance, but I assume most of us never assumed the company could bungle something like that so badly (or the distributor lying, or whatever). We haven't heard anything from that distributor since then, have we? I wonder if the distributor was the one lying just to pump up the stock so they could bail. Or did the VP bungle up the understanding when making the PR? One never knows.
stogie, You've got a point there, but that point pales in comparison to the impact of actual company success. Message boards are for short term flipping, period. If that's what you care about, then good for you. The ONLY thing that'll make this PPS go up and STAY up is real success for the company. Period. That's why you don't need to sweat what is said on message boards. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone telling any untruths here, either. Have you? That's more than I can say for the PRs we've bought shares because of in the past, IMO. Fairbanks being one, and quite a few others as well. Although I'm sure forward looking language disclaimer keeps most of the PRs within the boundaries as required. But still, folks buy stock based on "definite" sounding language and promises of wild success that just seem to disappear as people then hold the bag until the next fabulous tidbit comes along. It's been doing that over and over. Maybe this time is different.
Hey guys, as much as you may feel to the contrary, forming a club of: "rah rah rah, we're shareholders and we will all give good vibes to the stock to make it go up!", that just doesn't help and makes no difference.
And if you truly do think a message board matters regarding the PPS or your stock's performance, then you're just looking for a flip. And if you are, then there are plenty of message boards to pump the stock on. Have a ball.
All that matter are company results, regardless of what any of us says on this message board. Getting caught up in a back and forth about who says what, amongst posters on a message board, is just plain bush league.
stogie, Pardon me, but do you hope to gain from MESSAGE BOARD posts? I assume not, since this board has nothing to do with the PPS of the stock. Therefore, relax. This is a message board and this is what it's for. Everyone on this board is more than willing to praise or recognize positives. Just need some proof of some first; been burned many times in the past. So, you see, the views here are a direct result of the experiences with the stock. Sorry, that's how it is.
Directing your frustration, re: the non performance of your stock, at message board posters is misguided. You're aiming your views at the wrong audience.
Ida, If I need your advice, I'll ask you for it. Look at a 5 year chart. This stock has performed pathetically, and so has the success ratio of the glorious PRs over the years. How about if a person averaged down 3 years ago? Oops. Or 2 years ago? Oops. Or 1 year ago? Oops. I hope this time your fantastic rumors come to fruition.
trade, No problem, I know better than to trust this stock too much at this point. Hey, that's just my view. Good luck to anyone selling the car to load up for the INTK moonshot. lol!
zimmy, LOL! em
Today's action was pathetic. Damn this stock, what a POS.
onewho, I know, it seems fairly clear to me also if I was just reading it at face value and wasn't familiar with the history.
Yet, at the same time it's not as clear as it could have been. And, the summer 2009 revenue PRs seemed clear to all of us too, right? And we know how those turned out. Takes guts to buy into this dumping, too. Never know, maybe this time it's all real and solid.
zimmy, I agree. There's also no reason why they shouldn't have given the actual sales figure for 3Q instead of referencing 'manufacturing' and then just giving the past sales figure for 3Q.
For all we know, maybe their manufacturing sector specifically has had very low sales in 3Q in the past. Which, depending on how one interprets this PR, could just mean that they've eclipsed the past small "mfg" sales figure for 3Q. Which wouldn't mean much. If they meant overall sales figures for 3Q, then they could have been more clear about it (maybe they did mean that?) in which case they need someone who knows how to write a clear PR. This PR IMO reeked of a verbiage loophole and reminded me of those bogus summer 2009 sales PRs. But we have no way to know for sure in reading it, unfortunately.
.013 x .0135 now. This news was not believed by the audience, it seems. What a surprise!
Ida, Why don't you just name the projects and rumors you've read? Sheesh. Be specific, everyone can take it with a grain of salt but at least share what you see.
Enjoy the day? I hope you're not referring to the day as it relates to the stock! lol It's at or near an all time low right now, despite the news.
trade, Good point. Why would it be a secret? Since, we've been informed of a lot of things that haven't come to fruition, then it seems like a logical assumption that if Mexico DID happen that the company would say so.
What other deals? Please name them, since we're all here to share.
Are we caught up in chosen language? I don't know. But in many cases re: past PRs, analysis of the language used has proven to be a useful tool because IMO it doesn't seem like we're told the "whole truth" in many cases.
Mexico orders, I thought, were supposed to be residential. That's why if this sales increase is legit, then I'm not sure it points to Mexico. But if it doesn't, then why doesn't the company say that UAE, or Turkey, or whomever, is accounting for the increased manufacturing revenue increase?
Ida, Who knows, anything is possible. But, Mexico orders wouldn't be qualified as 'manufacturing', would they? Why are your sources unidentified? You should name your sources, as the lack of is typical nonsense in the pinks. Unnamed rumors and 'sources'.
Enter INTK: http://www.vickers-stock.com/reports/free/tickerorcompanylookup.asp?rid=27
Then select "create report". See how Ed Tyler is making a living on this stock at shareholders' expense? Every 3 months he registers a large # of shares for sale. That, plus company dilution or debt replayment... no wonder the PPS doesn't move.
So far, same as the last big PR. Share dumping. Almost 1M shares already, a quick spike up to .018 and then back down to .015 due to so much selling. Maybe this one will have a lag effect and price will rise later. But that didn't happen with the last big PR, so it's hard to tell other than dumping is keeping a lid on the PPS.
You notice the potential for word trickery? Sales to manufacturing customers has exceeded, yada yada. Why didn't they just say total sales? This reminds me of the 2 or 3 PRs in summer 2009 where they said revenues/sales had exceeded same period prior year... when in reality, it wasn't true (per the Q filing when it came out).
Notice how they separated the two pieces of verbiage? Sales to manufacturing customers has exceeded all prior quarters? But then as a disjointed statement they gave the highest Q sales figure separately. Why wouldn't they give a round or estimated figure for where 3Q sales are currently since they chose to PR it? Is it because sales aren't as high as they make it sound, since they are tracking it by sector instead of just overall sales? This one does sound more specific, so hopefully that's not the case.
That being said, this is good encouraging sounding news.
trade, Right, and it's concerning that the patent is held by individuals and not the company itself. And corporations are well known to shelter individuals' personal worth from business losses, and I assume vice versa as far as gains. Personal gain via patent buyout wouldn't benefit the company unless the patent holder graciously made it that way.
Ida, That's part of the problem, news and promoters don't seem to help this PPS anymore. Too many false starts in the past.
Also, as far as "promoters" go, that lends itself to flipping / trading. Not investing. Same for "news" when it comes to pinksheets. Noteworthy sales and credibility are the only thing that'll help a pinksheet in most cases over the long-haul, and we're
Say, that $15M first year sales for Mexico should have started rolling in in July according to the company by now, right? It's been 1.5 months since July 1st, so that would be about $1.85M so far in sales on a $15M over 12 months. I imagine if they'd filled that much in orders by now they would have been issuing PRs about it. still waiting for those things.
trade, I don't know. Or, there are plenty of reasons to buy, in theory, but it seems like the lesson is we never know if we should believe the reasons or not. I agree, Fairbanks cost the company dearly in both credibility as well as lessening the staying power of the PRs. A couple years ago, the latest Mexico PR probably would have caused a substantial runup in the PPS. But notice that it did nothing for the PPS nowadays as their PRs probably get the stink-eye from their shareholders.
A sellout, if anyone wants the technology, I agree could be a good move. But I'm not sure it'd benefit shareholders or PPS in the current arrangement since the patent is not held by the company.
New all time low PPS today, lovely. This will either go further into the abyss and crush shareholders further per its history, or else a lot of joe schmoes will make a lot of $$ by buying shares at these shoddy prices. lol
Does that mean that the past 2 weeks only tell the story if it was a positive one? Or did they tell the story as a negative since nothing happened that we know of?
It can go quite a bit further south, can't it? It can still go down 90% from here just as it's done from many other price levels before. True, it's got a lot of upside room now too if anything good happens. But the more dilution that occurs, and the more quickly it occurs, the harder it'll be for the stock to move up because there would be millions of shares that could be dumped for 100% gains even if the PPS never breaks .03 or .04 again from here.
Ida, 'This week and next' has expired. Did the past 2 weeks tell the tale? A person has to hope not, huh?
The past few years have told the tale so far, so were you right about all the rumors and talk being legit THIS time? Last time (many many times) we were all wrong. Still waiting for the whispers to be correct. As usual.
lower, What the heck? How can you say anyone is making baseless assumptions? The real assumption is that the company spews nonsense and folks like you believe it or try to get others to believe it so you can make money on the stock.
The most accurate assumption, ever, with this stock is that the promises made will not actually materialize in reality. That's the assumption, until proven otherwise. I'm talking about business, revenue, profit, dividends, you know... things that matter. Not just silly websites or silly announcements that have no proof or backing in reality other than stock scheming.
Anyone who believes what Shan/Sean/Lee/KungFu/EffYou says, at this point, may want to consider getting their head checked. Take away their keys too, as maybe they've been drinking. lol
They're just propping it up as usual, right? Great, give the fraudulent bankers free loans at 0 or .25 percent so they can buy Tbills that pay 2.5% (or whatever they are now). Then the banks can make money risk-free for doing nothing, and still no incentive for the banks to actually LEND. What a scam.
Hey, maybe those things will happen just like the dividend happened! That was great! It was easy money!
onewho, Or an alternative view could be that this just makes him firmly planted as in control of the company with no chance for a takeover via someone acquiring more shares then he owns? Just a thought. I'd like to view it the way you do as well, but we have to look at all angles.
onewho, I'm not sure I see those things as good like you do. Smart, yes. Good, or having anything to do with shareholders... I don't see that.
The heck with the free 100M shares he got, right? He's got a 10% MONTHLY compounding interest note. That's a sweet deal IMO, and since he's in control of the company, he can dictate how it's paid back. One option is just dilute stock and pay it that way, no? Each Q filing can show a nice chunk towards notes payable reduction, if he wants to. It won't matter if sales increase exponentially, but if they continue to drag then that interest is also a drag.
The pinksheets are awesome. LOL
eelfland, Good post! If it was easy and possible, then just short every pinksheet there is. Heck, you could leverage your whole net worth and then just wait. 99% gains on 99% of your holdings! hahaha!
onewho, Thanks for clearing that up. Then, sounds like the only losers in a buyout are the shareholders under the current patent ownership structure. The company pays $1/month just to use it until such time that that changes(?).
Regarding buyout of patents: It looks as if the patents are owned by individuals, not by Industrial Nanotech the company.
Does that mean the company just licenses or pays a royalty to the individuals for use of the patent tech? I'm not sure exactly how that's done or how it works in this case. Someone could ask the company I guess.
But it seems that the "value" of the patents would only be owed to the individuals listed on the patents, and not to the company itself, wouldn't it? That's the only sense I can make of it. Seems up for interpretation, but it seems the company would be listed on the patent if the company had a right to a buyout of the technology / patent, no? Rather than the individuals.
The beginning of a greater sales effort = much increased sales, which in turn means more credibility. That's how it works.
For example, potential Customer A. Huge multi-national company. They want test data first, before trying Nansulate, and they obviously would want test data from well respected organizations. IF a salesperson could present such data from such organizations, then Company A would IMMEDIATELY assign a MUCH HIGHER degree of legitimacy to the claims being made. At that point, they would more easily agree to an onsite pilot or test application or in-house test. If their superiors questioned it, they could lean on the existing credible organizations' data as proof that they aren't being tricked or suckered somehow. Simple as that.
Then, if their own test or trial app is also positive, now they've got credible test organization backup as well as their own test. What comes next is they BUY the product in larger quantities because all bases have been covered. See how simple that is if you first get vouched for by more well known credible organizations instead of obscure or mom & pop ones?
You know how a company can build up trust and become well known? Via widely recognized tests being performed by widely recognized organizations. lol It's a pretty simple concept. There's really nothing to disagree about. They either have that, or they don't.
onewho, I agree, global recessions are very bad for small companies. But at the same time, this company is in one of the only niches that IS getting some attention and funding (green, energy). So that excuse only goes so far. This goes back to the need for "official" credibility - not just two-bit mom & pop testimonials or obscure test credentials that don't warrant the mass appeal & credibility that everybody seems to be looking for.
The generally accepted excuse about the stock price being on a longterm decline was that the global markets were tanking. That made sense at first, but the INTK stock continued to decline even when the global markets rallied for a year. Next excuse.
That being said, often the best time to buy & flip a pinksheet is when the prices are at all time lows such as now. With perception of low credibility among the stock's audience, any legit positives could spike the price for a quick double. Whether it'd hold its gains, who knows... it never has before.