lol...

That's not how courts work.

Damages are what is calculated and relief is what is granted.

Damages are what "constitutes" just compensation, and that would have to be determined. What that could be is well over 350 Billion.

or

it could mean to put the folks in the position they were prior to the act. That would mean repurchasing open market shares or a tender; it could be imaginably expensive.

But hey, its avoidable. Do the crime... pay the fine.

Wrong...

That's when the taking will have occurred and when suits will be filed.

Essentially, asking for compensation on one hand or rescission on the other.

Compensation would be very high... probably 150-350+ Billion. Whereas, rescission, could be mind blowing; because that would entail repurchase of shares on the open market by the government to be turned over and canceled by the entities; if the government were stupid enough to have sold them.

Frankly, this is NOT a path any sane person would select. Sometimes, its just better to walk away and not poke the bear. This is one of them.

The plaintiffs are asking the judges to allow them to be screwed even further.

The kicker is if they are used the warrants will be immediately challenged....

So, its really a nothing burger.

Rosner - has lost it if he thinks the gov't is owed anything other than a black eye!

no more taking.

return the ill gotten gains.

let my people go!

pay back to Treasury ??????????????????


What that you say???? pay back to who and for what ;

for stealing money that did not belong to them.

10-1 reverse...

would put the share price at fair value around $1,250 or so a share...

Whatever works..

don't really care

I hope this is the beginning of the end for this man made disaster that results in the courts forcing their brothers / sisters in federal guberment to do the right thing and restore these two to their rightful owners.

If that happens and they disgorge the ill gotten gains and fruits of the poison tree .. the warrants... then fair value can be restored.

This could easily be $150 a common share or more.

question is do you wait for full value or do you sell along the way?

If we jump to $10 a share and stall... do you bail? or what $35?? do you sell out some... or do you hold it all to $150???

A good problem to have.. but what to do?

Also, good to own a company or a stock of a company that actually has value, some strong $10-15 a share...

As opposed to

Some Doggiecoin based on essentially nothing.. representing nothing, etc.

Yes, something like fandf that should be valued off of earnings at $150 or so..

$150 would not be unreasonable.

Yes... another gent who gets it!

Holy smokes...

Pags... finally comes out against the warrants!

Yes!!!!

He finally, gets it ! ALL!

Now... lets' get er done!

We can only hope.

Ultimately the problem as explained by Howard is.

that everyone is scared to just rip the bandage off and show the pretty face. Simply people were scared to do the right thing by others wanting more free stuff; whether it was kudlow (jerk) or catman, finally, that munuch was scared that his 500M would be at risk if he did the right thing.

Sadly there are a bunch of weaklings that can't just doit already and get it done.

Something that was so simple to do- i'd have done it 7 years+ ago. Cancel the warrants, return the ill gotten gains (duh) and boom they'd be already done.

No mystery here. Just government greed - American Style.

Maybe they'll do a show for CNBC on American Greed, Munuch can produce it; he already has!

Really just confirms the utter corruption of the government.

Makes you wonder can these collective idiots ever get this right and fix the misgivings of Government?

So sad,

Just do it!

And stop being greedy!

If.. news came out and it was positive for shares ...

there would be a rush to buy fannie and freddie shares.

So thoses short would have to compete with the new investors pouring money in.

meaning...

To cover the price would go up up up.

in a race to buy and a race to cover.

some shorties would have no shorts left.

i'd like the sun to set tomorrow on a $15 dollar price tag...

But $35 would be better.

$50 and ... i may not be at work Tuesday!

So, we've all - those here or in the trade since 2008 as i have been; well realize we've been here before. Yep, a judge or judges, a mockery o f aleagal system, corrupt judges Lamberth and that other joke for a judge that old bity, and countless times they've either extended; denied or been blinded by lies and corruption by the government. All so much so that its so hard to believe in the US government as being honest, but more a mob of corruption all perpetuating themselves...

So,

What's differnt this time. ?

Everyone knows Roberts bends in the wind.. will formulate a "model and decision" to public or government outcry.

So, do we really expect salvation at last?

If so, wouldn't the shares be trading up?

I guess the big question is...

How is the us supreme governmnet court going to screw the little people, yet again?

What's the second to worst outcome. given the players i'd probably bet on that. Sure i own several many shares and expect to get taken by governemnt, yet again, but i hope that the rules and decency should eventually win out.

Afterall didn't one corrupt judge tell us that all our "rights" were taken by the gornemtnment? If so, do we really own anything at all?

My sense here is that SCOTUS is going to teach congress a lesson.

They are going to do more than what was asked for and put the executive branch on its heels.

Doing so would wipe the slate clean somehow, return the excess money; force a settlement and void the warrants.

Look for some settlement that will be outlined by the courts.

This would be a very big number all the way around.

10,000 shares could easily be worth $500K; in short order or at least on a path that way.

Acting ultra-vires and without regards to their duty is a big problem. Lessons need to be learned.

Just listened / watched the video.

1st. I hate the concept that pags still thinks the gov't earned / diserves the warrant shares.

That is the biggest farce and until that litigation is filed and resolved nothing gets really done done.

Intersting he says 50% penalties / past dividends owed on $25 pref shares. Who would pay that??? GSE's or government.

Interesing that gabby says pricing is still option pricing with 60 day window.

$2 a share for what could be $50 at 87% confidence level is not a bad bet, considering even if it doesn't hit you still have the $2.

Might be worth a swing.

How many chips to push into the middle more???

Thinking about it...

Why all the protectionism for the government and what they did wrong.

Its like sure you stole billions from investors... but keep it.

and penance?

Why its the government without the government all investments would be worthless so you (the shareholders all shareholders in every company all around the world) owe it to them... so why complain.

no penalty for the theft. its in the past it doesnt matter.

most people that were screwed are either dead, retired or have dementia... so go away..

and their siblings the courts have all condoned the activity.

Well...

its not right.

next time you take over a company. take all of the company and shoot it dead; don't leave share holders don't say one thing and do another don't mislead, apparently if you are the government you can mislead and its not a problem.

but they didn't do it right. they left the companies and the share holders breathing. And that is were they screwed up and that is why they'll evetnually be forced to pay the for what they took.

They have to pay for what they take in America. Of at least should. But what price?

The price they could have paid in 2008? or the fair value today? Since the taking is not complete they need to pay today's fair value.

or

unwind the theft and pay a penalty.

Then regulate like government should have done all along.

Very simple.

Hard to execute, and sorry the numbers are big but to bad they did it to themselves and they should pay for it.

Its time to be honest and get it right and move on.

And, yes, fair value is a really big number (that the market will tell us). And the penalties for 13 years is large they need to settle this thing now!

Well that blob has done more for fandf than any other blob.

o not talking about cat man. he's a waste.

True...

Very true.

Which is why i've diversified and only have 2-3% in fannie and freddie ... right now. sure if they blow up in a big way that changes dramatically, but win or lose, i am still a multi millionaire at this point. But, darn sure would be nice to put some distance behind me and sail into the next 20-30 years with serious momentum (retirement).

So, yes, 50 a share would be really nice. But $0 only makes me mad and changes nothing for me and my family.

My recommendation is diversify and not all bets on one horse.

Well if its anything like normal

it will come out and be a remand

and decide nothing.

more government sponsored BS.

but could always surprise me.

50 in 90 days!

Sold

Ready ..

So stinking ready

10 would be nice....

But...

$50 would be better.

$50 would put things in perspective for us all.

Fair value here is $125-150 but you've got to figure fair value will never happen.

I just hope that at some point SOON the ship is righted.

Peace

What a grand idea...

lets use other peoples money to be stupid and over lend.

what a wonderful idea.

lol...

is that Donk still in office?

What really surprises me is why Trump didn't just end the games and put fandf back to the peoople and stick it to the democrats.

the stupid games these idiots have played and now continue to play is like 4 play. Just get to it. I am way to old.

I'd be thrilled at 1/2 that!

But yes.

The people responsible for this travesty should be made to be accountable for their actions.

I could think of a few ways, and while it might be gratifying... heck.. just give me what is mine and be darned with them.

I own several thousand shares of entities that are enormously profitable, were never ever in jeopardy of failing, saved the economy and these felons have stolen it from me and continue to do so.

The shares of these entities should easily be trading at 125 each. Easy.

At 125 each i am so far retired its pathetic. And yet every work day i get up and go to the office, knowing that one day, this nightmare will end. Its only been 12 years. I am tired.

Please free me so i can get on with what is left of my life.

So frustrating, and they all wonder why people get mad at their shenanigans and games... push people in a corner long enough, ignore them and steal their stuff... and that;s what happens. When it happens don't blame the people... blame themselves.. until they realize it the idiots (felons) ... oh well you get it.

Now, give me my company's back!

The warrants are really meaningless until exercised. That is when the taking occurs; when it does the government immediately owes the shareholders of record its interest that which was taken monetarily.

Hard thing for the government is ...if this has to go thru the courts and the shares are worth $5 day one on say 4.8B shares... its only a 25B case.. but by the time they are done and the shares are worth $50 a share its now a $200B problem.

If the greedy government wants that 25B they better be prepared for paying $200B for it.

lol

Treasury does not own 80% of the stock.

They were gifted / taken warrants to steal 80% of the stock / shares that aren't issued.

So don't figure them in..

hey,

my daughter a fierce liberal age 24 and in college has besmirched capitalism for 8+ years... so, she's been after me to buy stock in this and a few others pumpers. Well i won't be too speculative, gambling, but to teach her a lesson, i obliged with 1 2/19 $6 call.

If we win... then we cash money and lesson learned... as to capitalism...

If we lose then we have another lesson learned as to capitalism..

So, my hope here is a teaching point for the liberals, here is that capitalism, works.

Risk and reward.

not just reward.

So we are in for 100 shares..

Actually, NOK has a lot of good things going for it. Some positive news from E Release could be a mo mo thing as well.

P o

The concept of buying and holding... not selling to those short allowing to cover ... would put a crimp in their sails...

So another "hit" piece comes out and millions of shares hit the streets.

I've not sold any shares in these for a couple of years. Yes, i'd sell one and rebuy the other a couple of times, to take some losses. but stay invested or such.

The key thing, is the buy and hold... but those short love the hit pieces that allow them to cover at lower prices.

it will all end one day... hope i'm not in a box by then.

There are no "options" in freddie and fannie... meaning investors can't control millions of shares for little money.



Fair value on f and f is easily in the 125 range so trading 10x fair value like GME would put these at 1,250 per... that would be so sweet!

but, its not going to happen.

Wishful thinking.

Preferred stock with no dividend is sort of a 0 investment.

What you are hoping for is 1. a dividend if its expected in 10 years; then you've purchased paper that has discounted value. If your dividend is 8% then a discounted $50 par should be worth 25 if you believe their is liquidation value or a 10 year return to dividends. Would be like buying no coupon us savings bonds... ie. $100 Series EE at for $54 that mature in 30 years.

The issue here is not only is their no coupon but because of the greed of government the par value is also at risk. So they trade well below it.

So, for the companies common to have value the risk of liquidation would need to be off the table. Also, the dilution it faces with the cement life preserver *warrants" the threat of further dilution. Once all that is resolved and i think it will without the warrants and with minimal dilution, then preferred should go back to earning a dividend.

A court order undoing the nws and using $$ to pay down debt as paid has these two owed $50-100B; couple that with another 30B in earnings and they can be on a true path to release. All it has to be done is announced.

If so, at 30B a year in Retained Earnings; their cup becomes full and they start paying pref dividends again, if not they redeem them or convert them into common at a ratio of .25 - 1 (.25 common for 1 pref) at a 20% discount. So for it will take 4 ($25 pref) to = 1 $125 common.

In the capital structure...

for commons to have value - real fair value - preferred would be at or near par value.

For commons. Pags said these two should now earn 30B between them if operated properly.

Says market cap ought to be 300B at 15pe.

Less 33 Bill Preferred

is 270Billion market

There are 2Billion common

So that's 135 a share

if the gov does the warrants

thats 10bill shares so value

is 27.

So that would be a taking of 220Billion

I'd use my 27 to sue for the 108 stolen.

Cheers.

This is the biggest farce...


Until the Enterprises can raise private capital, they are at risk of failing in the next housing crisis.


why?

Because the government would step in to help them if a crisis ensued.

no not an artificial one like in 2008... there was really no gse crisis - there was an issue with banks, and with golman, jp morgan and such... but not gse's.

If there really was a situation that exposed the gse's it would also be problematic to the country and the government would step in regardless. and of course they'd do that for any large utility, duke power, sourthern co, pac power, any big bank, any big thing. Like General motors or ford, etc. so all these platitudes they conjure up are all for shet.

Fact is they are greedy.

they are simply greedy.

Releasing the 11000 docs to the public would have meant someone could have reviewed them and maybe written an article about them or something that would have shown how much of a thief they were.

One thing left off is that shareholders need to be compensated for the taking of their company for the use of the government. This has never been adjudicated nor considered.

Until this is done and the warrants are canceled nothing really can proceed.

At some point this needs to be dealt with.

So... its 2021


Already been 13 years ! YEARS...

Only what 7 more until the warrants expire.

Can anyone believe that this mess the government created hasn't been resolved in 13 years? Any decent CEO would have been fired in 2 years for not getting this right. Heck football coaches in the SEC get fired after a mere three years of failure and this stuff is allowed to stay for 13...

Yep... 20 years coming.

It will be nearly 1/2 my adult life... completely mind blowing ..

20 years...

20 years...

let that sink in.

these government idiots!

Its a circle thing... can't issue stock with warrants and can't have warrants with stock.

warrants being used is equal to a taking.

Government would owe perhaps 500 billion to the shareholders that were diluted.

its an easy win on paper.


problem is the spinless courts won't enforce it.

so sick of these idiots.

can't there be one decent person out there that's called judge when will it end.

Come on man...

Stop the steal!