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If there is a constant risk of misspending (meaning lack of confidence to the management) I think people really have to sell their shares
Trw was valued at 341m (?) a few years ago. If they issued shares for at half the booked valued and collected 15 musd, I think everybody would be better off. Sometimes financing is expensive, but lost growth is also expensive
I’m afraid long-suffering shareholders that bought into Solly’s lies have much higher expectations that what we are witnessing currently
What is “great discount”? And what is it relative to the lost growth and years of delay? (Opportunity cost)
I doubt trw would be targeting issuing shares at Siafs level. And again, if the growth prospects are good, the discount doesn’t have to be that big. They already got an appraisal from d&b.
That’s the case in every company. Investors who invests in an early phase in companies that gets listed and IPOed usually do a great deal. So, if it’s a good deal it will be no problem to get money
“Who is interested in being locked-in in a stock that will not trade on a stock exchange for years? What will they pay for such a stock?”
Trw can still do a Pre-ipo even if traditional bank loans takes forever. It’s now been 1,5 years wasted waiting for the big loan which was just a signature away. Better to issue some equity (should be easy for trw) and be able to grow instead of waiting for years
What exactly is the difference between SIAF's and TRW's trading business?
I don't know if SIAF has tried, but if they havent they must be retarded. If they are based in HK or not doesn't matter, because according to trw their contact details and HQ is the same as SIAF.
Do you know why the collateral shares were issued in the first place? why couldn't a rightholder get a right to issue shares if SIAF keep their part of the deal?
What is the status of the collateral shares used to finance SIAF’s trading business? I
believe these shares were scheduled to be returned upon repayment in September of this
year. If so:
a) by how much will the outstanding share count be reduced?
b) how will this affect SIAF’s trading business?
The Company is negotiating with its funding parties. We believe the best and most likely scenario
is to extend the loans for six to 12 months. This will promote a smooth transition of SIAF’s trading
business (separate from Tri-Way’s) from reliance on collateralized loans to using other financing
or self-financing, in order to first maintain the current revenue stream and then grow it.
If TRW gets a credit line for the trading division why doesn't SIAF get it?
Why does the S1 have to be before the distribution? What stopped them doing it in March?
Trw- being a trading company with the same contact details as Siaf. Why don’t they have contact details that work?
My feeling is that there's nothing positive in the Q&A. In 2021 we will still be here discussing and complaining about the same things .
-Collateral shares not returned for another 6-12 months.
-Long term financing for Trw is still not solved
- IPO Trw in 2021 which probably will be delayed since they need a full year of solid operation first
-"Legacy debt" is the new fashion word for the effect of bad financing decisions in the past
-TRW-distribution is stuck in between a lengthy 3rd party process (SEC).
Did I forget something that could contradict this?
Sino Agro Food, Inc.
China Corporate Head Office:
Room 3801, 38th Floor, Block A, China Shine Plaza
No. 9 Lin He Xi Road, Tianhe District
Guangzhou City, Guangdong Province
510610, People's Republic of China
Phone (China): +86 20-38880923
http://sinoagrofood.investorroom.com
China Corporate Head Office:
?
Room 3801, 38th Floor, Block A,
China Shine Plaza, No. 9 Lin He Xi Road,
Tianhe District, Guangzhou City,
Guangdong Province, 510610,
People's Republic of China
http://www.tri-way.hk/contact-us
Would be good if Siaf could sell their account receivables as well
Do you know why they are based in Guangzhou and not HK? (Same place as Siaf?)
«Yes, the trading business has begun. Remember that this business is Tri-way’s, separate and apart from SIAF’s trading division. So they will run it.»
Is trading the biggest source of revenue now that trw has access to more money?
It’s indirectly what happened last year if Solly is CEO and chairman in both Siaf and trw.
http://www.sinoagrofood.com/sites/default/files/Tri-way_PR_7-Nov-18.pdf
How can Solly (trw) blame Solly (Siaf) for the f-up of dividend shares?
Isn’t the Ravhindran (Indian guy) who is CEO?
So, q&a prepared remarks next week... And a Q3-report in November that almost guaranteed has improved due to tri-way. Do we finally have something to look forward to??
It’s a of course a positive news (after almost 2 years of silence.)
There will always be risks with a stock, but I’m not calmed down until the lawsuit is over. As mentioned earlier I have bad gut feeling with Fredly and Ecab.
How do you expect the trw-news will impact CA in the short term?
What will come first: down payment of loan to Siaf or consulting revenue to CA (meaning cash) ?
I don’t want to go all-in in a company with terrible corporate governance.
Exciting yes, but there other opportunities as well.
6th of August was 3 weeks ago. They should have released this the 7th or 8th.
Nice to know that Solly is glad on tri-ways behalf ??
Many millions have been purchased in the month of August, this was closed in July. It’s good they don’t publish bs and wait until final, but if it’s final then no point to wait.
Agreement closed in July, published in end of August. Incredible.
Maybe that answers who picked up up the massive amount of shares last week. Information leakage is bad enough in transparent listed companies, I have little trust that delaying news will do it better in Chinese-based otc companies.
"Cash is king, not profit"
Not to mention that WE are profitable. WE have ODRAS. And WE have a growth story.
I Wonder who buy all these shares?!
Is it possible to block Solly’s A-shares, deny authorizing of new shares and get in negative control?
There has to be a solution to the financing in the short term. Fixing legacy debt and collateral shares etc. Weather they earn 0,12usd or 0,2usd pr quarter dosent matter
What agreement did he do with ecab?
Is the remaining debt to ecab and Garrett 45musd? I thought ecab had roughly 15musd left
It was written they had 6,6% legacy debt (approx 45musd). What exactly is that and who do they own money? And how the heck could a debt free company get legacy debt of 45musd?!
With all the mess and damage trw have caused Siaf while benefiting free loan (Accounts payable +1 year) wouldn’t it be fair Siaf got 50% by now?
«If SIAF had acquired 50% of TRW instead of 36.6% then it would be a subsidiary and they would have to consolidate 100% and give us all the details. «
How can you know there won’t be dilution? There could be dilution when the billionaire and fund manager sue them and want a bigger piece of the pie.
Pfff. Game over. I knew it was trouble with that guy. As if it wouldn’t be enough worries with Solly and his crew!
Last time (dec 18) I learnt a new expression:
SNAFU
I am perfectly aware of the spin-off strategy that they have been unsuccessful with for 4 years(?) and have no immediate solution to in the near term.
There should be valid arguments that the value is substantially below 340musd. The fact that they organized it in a separate company is not proof that the value is 340musd as far as everything is tightly connected to the SIAF crew. In fact Tri-way has such a terrible management that the way they messed up the dividend distribution was enough to get SIAF (mother company) kicked out of Merkur.
They have failed a PRE-IPO, they do not achieve any financing from banks (equity, bonds and traditional loans). How hard is it to get HK-financing from a gold mine 30 minutes away from Hong-kong??
Behind Tri-way are the same people who has failed in selling anything close to booked value for the last 8-10 years. I hope I will be proven wrong (hopefully by the company itself) but why is it different this time? You have to remember that back in the days everything was as promising as Tri-way is today, but the valuation was still terrible
(PE <1). They had dragon head status, SJAP and abattoir, the incredibly profitable eels etc etc. A spin-off strategy is not an evidence of any value unless it somehow can be converted to cash (IPO, asset sale) or a proof that somebody else puts cash into it at a value.
One is fairly obvious if you did your due diligence. In SIAF’s case, the opportunity falls under partial spinoffs category.
Valid points. But in SIAF's case, how do you achieve relevant information in order to judge the mispricing and probability for occurring?
(Everybody can see they have 13 usd or whatever in booked equity - if that market value for the equity why are they in such a mess?)
The whole purpose of value investing is look for the possible mispricing on special situations such as Spinoffs, Partial Spinoffs, Right Offerings, Risk Arbitrage, Mergers and Acquisitions, Bankruptcy, Restructuring and Recapitalization. That's the whole purpose of value investing is to look for these "Special Situations."
Spot on my view as well.
If only there would available information one could put some “weight” or probability to the various negative elements the company is facing but there is close to zero information and news. However, in the quarterly updates they try to hide the negatives, and use misleading statements for the potentially positives.
With SIAF at least you get updates and "conference calls" 4-5 times a year which keeps the hopes/excitement up to a certain extent. Maybe it will be a positive paragraph that seem optimistic. With Herb( a non-reporting company) there is little to wait for except to sit and press F5 and look for a statement that possibly could make the stock jump 1000 % overnight. Or something like that
Are you bored on your due diligence trip in China with your China-experts??