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black rock's VP voted for the "utility model" as often discussed here...
Ihub Admin deleting left and right on all the ranting and raving as "off-topic". your volunteer moderators let it slide, but Ihub isn't. They have a much stronger view on when something gets "off topic".
so let's get back on it! go freddie! good day today:
http://finance.yahoo.com/quotes/FMCC,FNMA,FMCKJ,FMCKI,FMCCM,FMCCK,FMCCT,FMCCI,FMCKK,FMCCG,FMCCH,FMCCL,FMCCN,FMCCO,FMCCP,FMCCJ,FMCKP,FMCCS,FMCKO,FMCKM,FMCKN,FMCKL,FNMAP,FNMAO,FNMAM,FNMAG,FNMAN,FNMAL,FNMAK,FNMAH,FNMAI,FNMAJ,FNMAS,FNMAT,FNMFM,FNMFN/view/v2?info=view_updated
"Dan Rather Reports" did a piece on that early in 2012...this problem has actually been going on for some time! No big banks were implicated at that time, they just looked at service providers that collect payment and they are companies you never would have heard of.
kevin yoder is my rep. i called his office on the payroll tax extension funding by the 10 year g-fee increase. i told his staffer it was a tax on new home owners. he voted for it. I saw him last May in the grocery store with his wife. we chatted, but since it was saturday before mother's day and we were both shopping for last minute cards, we didn't discuss anything substantial...just a "hi how you doing" since we last talked at a fundraiser. i REALLY wanted to ask him about his skinny dipping in the Sea of Galilee on an official Congressional junket! that was fresh news back then...
anyway, I live one mile from Missouri to escape taxes and bad schools, but get all the ammenities of the sports stadiums, opera house, symphony, etc. that are centered in Kansas City in Missouri. i moved to a place where my vote doesn't matter. it bleeds red like few others. so, if I have an opinion on F&F, they are going with the tea party vote (unless, for Yoder, it is a big issue...then he is a moderate when the rubber meets the road...only in our urban/suburban district could the former President of the Young Democrats at KU get elected as a Republican in the 2010 tea party wave.) If it wasn't for District 3, Kansas would be as red as Wyoming and South Dakota and Oklahoma.
i'm the pot calling the kettle black. not as much as some others, but I've engaged in these threads as well. it's just getting old. we need to get back on topic. if there is nothing to discuss, don't post anything...makes for easier reading anyway not having to read 30 threads that really have nothing to do with our money. though, I do understand some importance in trying to understand where each poster is coming from as a decision to listen to him/her could impact decisions we make with our money.
better to not listen to people's opinions in my view. just read the news and make decisions. educate newbies, and leave it at that. that's my M.O. anyway.
no worries...i hope the board organically starts to moderate itself. people usually don't hang around once everyone has them on ignore. as a moderator, I'm not using ignore though...seems to me we are doing a good job...if I may
t-fud says he forwarded a message from mstech to me and it was not t-fud's ranting and raving. it wasn't clear in the email. my apologies for calling out t-fud.
4cent, I'll leave it to you on what to do with this distracting thread. i kind of like the idea of outing personal agendas as it helps us understand the spin everyone has here. you call the ball on whether you think it helps. part of me says start deleting everything that even starts to look personal...this is getting ind of jr. high level these days...
it must be possible to have multiple id's...just need multiple email accounts to confirm registration. you can have three, four, even five or even more gmail accounts...just sign up...easy as pie. i think ihub treats each email account as a separate identity, they have no way to know if they are the same person.
however, I said earlier, I treat each alias as a separate person. there is no way to prove who anyone really is...though I think we all trust joe stocks is who he says he is...i believe his story at least...
i pegged old ebano for ignore on the yahoo board...and a couple others. none on this board would meet that ebano threashold...he was a piece of work
wooden...you have an ignore button. we are all tired of this. you might find ignoring attacks is the best way for them to stop.
joe: "stock of AAA GSE debt" methinks...meaning, "we have in stock" x number of GSE bonds...like a hardware store has three kinds of hammers "in stock"
that's my guess??? (admittedly without going to the website) back to my day....
i bet 90% of shares are in different hands than in august of 2008. especially common. think of all the institutional funds that had to dump, and the new ones that picked up that have different investment mandates. i bet the churn might even exceed 95%.
as for preferreds, they are gone as tier 1 capital, and among publicly traded regional banks, they all dumped their shares and booked realized losses.
beta -- definetly g-fee increases falling straight to the bottom line. any increases mandated by congress and signed by the president to fund programs are "taxes", but disguised to mislead the american public.
g-fees to cover future losses that are retained by F&F are cool with me, and if treasury wants to sweep net worth for now to be paid back, I'm cool with that too.
i just hope they don't become a piggy bank for Congress and warrants never exercised, and "off the books". The biggest argument against nationalization is that the US balance sheet will increase by trillions. I seriously do not think that will happen. but, can they effectively leave us in a quagmire with no dividends and sweep profits indefinetly? well, it seems they might. that would suck. i put a 15% to 25% chance on that scenario.
no way original investors pre-conservatorship get restored. what a multi-billion dollar mess that would be! who sold when? for what reason? what date do you draw a line that you are an original shareholder when the volume on common was million per day and volume on preferreds were who knows, thousands, maybe tens of thousands per day (I don't know that number)...but everyone that held at some point in the summer of 2008 will claim a piece of the pie whether they held for two years, two weeks or two days...
no way small banks holding tier 1 capital or institutional funds or private investor schmucks (like us) from 2008 getting made whole.
(if that is not what you were trying to express, joe, my apologies)
but obama wants to spread the wealth around...screw us, fund spending with F&F profits.
only then, i hope, somebody sues under the takings clause. it can't afford it.
so, joe stocks, restore to "who?" is the question!
what sucks is that a former OMB (office of management and budget) treasury secretary would also know that GSE's could be a huge source of funding for government spending.
has anyone considered this scenario?
the GSE's are subjected to more and more and more g-fee increases that are really taxes on new home owners to pay for government spending. at the end, the g-fee increases make it so that private capital begins to be interested in writing mortgages. slowly, the risk of underwriting a mortgage gets priced in, but the new revenue, which drops to the bottom line, doesn't, it gets siphoned off to the treasury (just like the payroll tax).
funny enough, grover norquist, mr. right wing anti tax actually approved of this plan of a new homeowner "tax" in the form of a cleverly worded "g-fee" to the public. if I recall, his rationale was that the homeowner tax was actually better than the government subsidizing housing.
we are still in a mess folks...huge profits make it worth the risk for me, but the end hasn't been written which is why we still trade so low (that and dividend suspension). yes, there is room on this board to look at the pluses and minuses, and we should.
for now, I'm holding. place your bets folks. I'm still scared, but optimistic by nature, and frankly, I'm all in anyway, so WTF, let it ride....
this is scary joe: The Obama administration is finishing a proposal to maintain a government safety net for housing finance while allowing private capital to take on the up-front risk. A date for the plan’s release hasn’t been set. Meanwhile, Republicans and Democrats in Congress are preparing to introduce bills next year to wind down Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-11/mortgage-overhaul-begins-with-borrower-scrutiny-measure.html
others say that the gridlock won't let anything get done. journos are often the worst people to listen to because they pick and choose quotes.
as i have often said in the past (not since the yahoo days though), pick and choose your color, the roulette wheel is spinning...good luck peeps
looks like i should read the whole thread first :) others on on the bankruptcy/receivership issue...
kissing -- we are NOT in receivership. i don't have time to go into it this morning. sounds like you are a bit new to this investment, I'll let others pick up the ball from here....
life is getting better ace, getting better....
More WSJ:
Fannie and Freddie’s rescue has cost taxpayers $137 billion to date, though that number is falling as the companies post substantial profits amid a recovering housing market.
Critics say the administration’s lack of action makes it more likely that Fannie and Freddie will stick around for the foreseeable future—effectively returning to their origins after several decades of operating more like private companies.
from WSJ: “It is important that the administration put forward a housing finance reform plan, and that the Congress take it up,” said Michael Barr, a former assistant Treasury secretary in the Obama administration. However, he added: “Given the political environment, I’m not placing enormous weight on their ability to get that done.”
4cent...i noticed in the mgmt board you deleted your previous post about your own fiscal cliff...now that you mention again publicly, I hope all goes well for you!
me, I have no fiscal cliff. I'm in the same desert, but I'm quickly running out of water...if too much time goes by between when my firm gets and M&A deal done and when I have sold most of my shares to support the family, I could be done....I got to get out of my little desert before I run out of water (water = Freddie preferreds) I've gone from $2mm in redemption value to $1.7mm in six months...glad I get to sell a 1000 here and a 1000 there at higher prices now!
i restored this because I don't think there is anything wrong with linking to people's comments whether at joe's site, or at washington post, gator capital, or anywhere else. as long as it isn't shameless promotion, I think it should be allowed. if one of us writes something brilliant in another web domain, I think the link and conversation should be allowed.
mstech flagged it as off topic. I restored it since AIG is on topic today and the way shareholder lawsuits relate to F&F. your google docs link for that excel sheet is bad though, might want to fix it.
welcome!
jim demint of south carolina left the senate to run heritage (pretty sure that's the right wing group he left for...90% sure)...so it should not surprise you where they stand on the policy area
the fact that I posted the comment should speak for itself! of course it is good news! i saw his interview shortly after becoming CEO when fannie posted its first quarterly profit last summer, he has been nothing but upbeat, and dare I say, interested in running the company for the long haul (or cashing in some incentive compensation and turning it over to someone else, if the govt grants such a package near to releasing Fannie!)
but, backing out of my crystal ball of speculation, yeah, I'm tentatively ecstatic about the CEO's continued optimism...
Freddie's CEO is a little more quiet, a departure from our Hero, Hadelman....seems tables are reversed and Fannie is the more vocal group now...
The company’s finances have now turned around, Mayopoulos said. Fannie Mae reported $9.7 billion in net income in the first three quarters of 2012, more than it has ever reported in for a full year, Mayopoulos said.
Republicans and Democrats in Congress and President Barack Obama have called for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to be wound down and replaced. The company’s recent performance should cause lawmakers to consider the earnings potential for taxpayers, Mayopoulos said.
“The improvement in the company’s financial condition and our ability to return value to taxpayers I’m hopeful will cause people to sit back and reflect on some of the positives that the GSEs bring forward,” he said.
it will be easy to see if BofA was all putback or not (and there was some 1 billion or so for penalties, I think) by simply looking at fannie Q3 filing and seeing what outstanding put back claims are, and if they are less than the settlement, then you KNOW there is more than just putbacks involved.
but nothing clearly states that is was a lawsuit settlement either, the number is just so huge.
i don't read fannie's filings, so I don't know the answer to my own easily knowable question.
I think that the BofA was put back, and maybe all other obligations in the future? we all agreed back when that it was unlikely that the banks would settle for 100 cents on the dollar in the lawsuit. i may have read it wrong, but the 8 figure settlement I thought was put back and lawsuit to get it all behind them.
they still face dept. of justice lawsuit which is a different matter entirely....
that is a fact noble....but unfortunately, I think we are dreaming if we think they might actually pay on jr. preffereds before paying off senior!
transaction could have posted before new year and announced today. but, no, a transaction in January cannot be posted to 2012. as i said, could be a gap in the date of the transaction and the announcement
you all do realize the settlement goes straight to the bottom line? BofA is booking it on 2012's books. I figure it will be booked Q4 for fannie...be on the watch for a doubling of profits in Q4 over Q3.
Let treasury sweep it, start the pay down. a good day...
oh -- Bank of America will pay Fannie $3.6 billion in cash and pay roughly $6.75 billion to repurchase about 30,000 mortgage loans, which is to be covered by existing mortgage putback reserves, along with "an additional $2.5 billion (pretax) in representations and warranties provision recorded in the fourth quarter of 2012."
See if (BAC) is in our portfolio
The bank agreed to "settle substantially all of Fannie Mae's outstanding and future claims for compensatory fees arising out of past foreclosure delays," which is "expected to be covered by existing reserves and an additional provision of $260 million (pretax) recorded in the fourth quarter of 2012."
WTF?? some journos say 3.6bn, others 10bn? what gives?
jemiller...if you have at least $2 million EBITDA...i can help try to convince him to sell the company, if he is willing... :)
"a GSE's" conservatorship...could be freddie before fannie. theoretically. can definetly convert warrants and sell back and recoup in 2013...if govt wants to. likely will not....
sambass...possible, not likely. my theoretical, and unlikely scenario, rests on this...from the freddie investor presentation that 4cents linked to back around christmas time, note last paragraph on page 5:
The Director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) placed Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in conservatorship on September 6, 2008 in order to restore the balance between the GSEs’ safety and soundness and mission
?FHFA is the Conservator for both GSEs
»The Conservator assumed all powers of the Boards, management and shareholders
»FHFA reconstituted our board of directors and executive management
»FHFA stated that the GSEs will continue business as usual during the conservatorship
?At the time the GSEs were placed into conservatorship, FHFA indicated that the goals of the conservatorship included:
»Restoring confidence in the GSEs
»Enhancing the GSEs’ capacity to fulfill their missions
»Mitigating the systemic risk that has contributed to market instability
?At that time, FHFA indicated that a GSE’s conservatorship will end when the Director determines that FHFA’s plan to restore the GSE to a safe and solvent condition has been completed
treasury can choose to ammend that agreement clearing the way for FHFA if they want to do an AIG style exit.
pie in the sky for now. congress isn't needed, just the will of the obama administration