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I think ATVI and Bungie are in deep thought.
Do we lose our socks or do we lose our pants?
Canada does not allow consolidated returns Ibelieve
Each company stands on its own.
I believe the losses are in Canada
and not in the U S
Visolis Inc whose CEO graduated MIT
.must view this as their biggest opportunity to become world class and make a lit of profits.
Since the price of Petro is up and the price of corn is down
With those huge fermentation tanks at the plant in Sarnia and plenty of feedstock it is a recipe for success to a $20B market in specialty chemicals and over a $100 B market in biofuels.
I think it would depend upon wgmhich taxing jurisdiction the losses were generated in
and the jurisdiction in which the profits are in.
It would also have to probably be in the same line of business.
Visoli market in specialty chemicals is $20Billion
and the market for their biofuels is over $100Billion like biodiesel and bio jet fueks.
I think you are alluding to a reverse merger.
In order to help preserve those NOLS along with the change in control ownershio rules Ithought that Iread that patents generated internally
Would help preserve the NOLS with their built in gains.
This has to be structured very carefully and I think in the PWC report the bidder must have been asking for this structuring advice as PWC
nade t
he statement that the bidders should seek their own advice from their advisors.
I looked up Visolis and they have won two SBIR awards from the DEPT of Energy on their fermentation process to produce plant based specialty chemicals with a market of $20B
If they do a reverse merger and acquire the commons and go IPO publicwith their new plan
and give the old commons new shares in a new public company.
KKR can be repaid and still have an equity stake in this and get their money back quicy.
and other fuels with even a bigger market.
I tend to agree with you. I think that they probably put a higher price on the patents
that were self generated. Ithink will enable to use the NOLS creating built in gains.
Since it is evident that Visolis has limited funds but their form wddd nation processes they won two sbir awards from the Dept of Energy and Lyc chemical as l(KKR) Providing to providing their funding.
They are setting up this Newco to acquire these three lots and put the funds in it for the exchange in exchange for our common
In a reverse merger that is typically funded as an IPO but I am not sure if this wall will happen at the same time or in two stages.
If this is the case even though they have acquired some of the common already.
Our shares will become more valuable in the new public company under Vidolis and LYC chemists cal
Anyone have any thoughts on th uh s?
These statements I believe are consolidated financial statements for Bioamber Inc.
That rolls up their two subsidiaries. Into it.
I have been trying to find the separate financial statements for buoamber Canada and biamber Sarnia to get a better picture of where the debt of each company truly is
As you know this makes a big difference in correlating it to PWCs comments. And what would be available to shareholders..
I was looking for it in the annual report and couldn't find it anymore.
If you can find the breakdown it would be beneficial to everyone
I like your thinking and hope #2 materializes
for all of us.
Each company is a separate company and you are dealing with different jurisdictions.
In the normal course of business the holding company and would not be responsible unless there is some type of special arrangement to be responsible.
We will see how this plays out in the U.S. court
I think when PwC broke the assets into three lots.
Biamber sarnia owned the plant and had most of the secured and unsecured claims against it.
Bioamber Canada handled the management.
I assume they also handle the sales with a slight markup to from the plant as well as the pick and pay contract from villemar and also the NOLS
But when you look at the first monitors report it shows that both of these companies are 100 percent owned subsidiaries of Bioamber Inc.
Biomamver inc owned the patents and R anD
and breakthrough products and possibly the plans and agreements to build the new 100k metric ton plastic plant in the U.S
For examoke
I think there maybe three separate bids for each of these companies with different values
Bioamber Sarnia a bid below their approx
$50 M in debts
Buoamber Xanada with NOLS and customer contracts approx $30_$50M
Bioamber Inc patents and R and D and licenses
approx $35_$50 M
I am not sure if the secured and unsecured creditors would have any participation in the bid for Bioamber Canada as most of these bmdevts related to the plant operations
Anyone else have any insight?
As I mentioned the bid for Bioamber Inc. Is the key in which I believe that the common shares will be draw upon. and without it the plant cannot operate under their license agreement with Xargil.
They had to offer more for this company as it holds over $4M in intangibles and over $200 Million in NOLS that is worth at least $35_$70M plus and their breakthrough antifreeze product
That I'd not marketed.
It may also have the take or pay contracts with Villmar and also the plans for the 100k metric ton. BTD chemical plant to be built in the U.S with EX__IM bank financing and agreements with its other joint venture partners like Mitsui.
The compensation for corporate officers has over the years has gotten way out of hand.
Bioaq former officers were on the corporate gravy train with their salaries,oerks,stock options
and other benefits and ran this company into the ground do a disservice to investors and leaving
Us holding the bag.
Their timing for raising funds were just plain awful and t hei financial advisors sounds like they were in it for fees and were lost in and unimaginative along with their executives and their bullish vision with no hedging like the oil companies do.
Only thing of concern and light of all the fright
That Eno has instilled in retail to sell their shares at a bargain basement price towhoever are insiders on this transaction are.
Judging from KKKR acquisition of LYC just recently for a 17.3 percent premium these guys
are like Gordon Gekko. and don't leave much on the table for us retail to eat.
In all my years if watching stocks this stock action has been so baffling down almost over 22 days in a row everytime it tried to build up they brought it down.
I wonder If the shareholders will have to vote on this. Iam not sure as all of the officers resigned.
I think the bid would be between $100 to $150 M.
If this was split in two it would be $50 to$75 M..
as a range .
It could be more or less depending upon the circumstances and what is left over in their carryover balances
I have a few comments after looking at the corporate structure of the three companies.
Bioamber Inc (U.S.) had their registered address in the U.S. for the R&D Based upon this Ithink they may own the patents ,right to license and etc and I am not sure if it also housed the marketing.or if the plant did in Sarnia.
and also issued shares commons that we hold.
In addition this company had the net operating losses Rhis company had no secured debt.
Bioamber Canada was the management company that is 100 percent owned by Bioamber Inc.
Bioamber Sarnia owned the real estate plant and equipment that secured the long term debt
PWC broke these into three separate lots.
The bid for the plant did not cover the total amount of the Canadian secured and unsecured
Debt.
The bid for Bioamber Inc. Was higher .
PWC asked for a higher bid for Bioamber Sarnia
to cover the secured and unsecured creditors
from the bid from BioAmber Inc that OWC would be more acceptable to the Bioamer sarnia
Secured and unsecured creitirs.
This higher bid was deducted from the bid for Bioammber Inc. where I would be the pot of excess proceeds that the common equity shareholders will draw from since there would be nothing left after creditors are paid in Bioamber Sarnia.Based upon this Idont think that should have been done to benefit the creditors since they have no visibility or attachment to any assets in the U.S.but only in Canada.
Looking at the offer letter amount offered and the cash flow spaces for Llcy chemical company
I see that the latest cash flow as of June was $512 M otherwise it would be almost $4Billion for four quarters.
Both of these redacted spaces are the same size. So draw your own conclusions
I would to see the closed between here and $.08
and then would feel we would be on our way.
I wonder where the elevator will take us ?
All I know in this estimated timeframe
from 6 months to 1 year depending upon anything can happen.
1Bungie can have a come to Jesus moment and
agree to withdraw their lawsuit for lesser damages that would shorten their timeline to Distrct Court where Ms. Casper will be waiting
for either one of them or both of them.
2Thom starts initiating lawsuits against other infringers to run parallel with the District Court and PTAB actions to stir things up.
3. If this timeline is shortened Thom may think that he may not need the money and propose a
tax free dividend of some of the 4 million MRMD stock Iam sure that would get some pps action.
In any event I will be buying more at $.20 to take advantage of some of the pessimism here this is
I hope that now that bioaq xab fill the gap between $.03 _$.08.
We need a high jump now and some good news.
Data Iagree with your comment wholeheartedly.
Bungies' lawyers sounded lame and no match for our legal team and S&G.
I. Think that Bungie by filing and adding themselves is up shots creek along with their buddies at ATVI.
As Bud Abbot would say "Slowly we turn step step"
In this case to paraphrase 'Slowly we turn nail by nail with each sworn deposition.
Yes that is correct.
I think you are right. Friends of Thoms that
helped along the way in keeping the company alive for lack of funds.I don't know if Morris Smith still owns a position he used to be a portfolio manager for Fidelity Why would larticipate be in a penny stock
Has anyone found the patent info for rockdoc resurfacing method. Appreciate any info on this
I think the CAFC decision is misunderstood
and is the reason why the stock has not reacted more positively.
Their mend position has value and the patent lawsuit is valued near zero.
I have trying to buy the stock under $.25 and have always missed because of the spread and that this is thinly traded.If it goes there again I am a buyer.
I view the decision as a positive as it sets up
The decision on a guidance track that is detrimental to Bungie and allows WDDD more
freedom as all the claims have been invalidated now.
They now have to follow the WIFI case.I was hoping that we could have gotten a decision that would have time barred Bungie but I think the CAFC now had to clear the PTAB behavior on
their patent killing decisions used by infringers with deep pockets.
Bungie is now in deep deep trouble with great liability for damages on in fringement but also
for possible "tortuous interference'
It will be interesting to see if Bungie 's legal
advisors have any foresight of what WDD's
Lawyers have in store for them and blink to make a settlement for pennies rather than thousands or millions of dollars since WDDD
surely will be enjoining them in the lawsuit
with their Destiny game series.
I agree after all this time have faith that Thom and SG will bring this boat to the promised land.
THE PTAB will have to follow the precedent set by WiFi case and probably a message to the PTAB to get it right and we don't want to hear
any more decisions on this that are lacking in discovery and capricious
Ithink Bungie is in deep trouble and has increased financial exposure.
Now the PTAB must follow the precedent of the WiFi case to use flexibility and equity in determining where now the burden of proof is on BUNGIE and not Worlds that they are a real party in interest or merely petitioning at the behest of another beneficiary Activision
Looks like your point one came to light
With a newswire item that WDDD won a full reversal of the PTAB invalidation decision and that Thom will determine their next course of action and that they have the financial wherewithal to sustain and carry this case to its conclusion.
I think that since Bungie is a related party in interest that Thom should file suit against Bungie as a patent infringer and also for" tortuous interference "more directly
The damages against Bungie can potentially be very severe
Discovery on both parties will be eye opening on atvi and bungie's cozy relationship.
I agree with MAds comments and think that Bungie is at great risk and judging by the comments from their lawyers in the Cafc
I do not think they will be prepared to rebut the onslaught of questions upon discovery of their relationship with ATVI.
While I seem to agree on most of your points.
I am wondering whether under the new administration and new interim director of the us to who Iunderstand helped craft the Invents Act will have any bearing on the marching orders of the ptab now that Michelle Lee is gone.
They still did not determine e if Bu girls filings were time barred or what the guidelines would be to determine their position.
In light of the new discovery guidelines for the ptab to follow does anyone anyone have any idea as to whether Bundie will win or lose upon discovery
and upon what Bungie has presented as their facts so far.
I read the case and it did not seem that the court ruled on Bungie being time barred in their decision but chose to remand the case back to the ptab.
How Does the vacate pertain to the time bar and if so in what way?
Do you think that with the stay until the 18 th
That they can accept any new bida?
I dread the boilerplate verbiage in this news release regarding the the proceeds
I think that whoever it is trying to preserve
The remaining net operating loss carrydorwards
which would require some sort of control over the shares and also the provisions in the licensing contract on transferability.
A delay or postponement would allow other bidders to come in for a bidding war.
The company has started signing up Russia as ne Europe.
I wonder why they haven't approached ok ached the Far East like Japan ,south KOrea and China.
Sorrento or Senegal deal with stem cells in the Far East and is at a much higher price and I think is on the Hong KOng stock exchange
For the potential we are very undervalued and Ihope this management team can unlock some shareholder value rather than continuing to issue and dilute stock
I think it could work out the PTT wants the patents and licensing rights and Greenfiels buys the plant and will feed them.
Hic the past CEO had a relationship with PTT in the past. In producing product for them.
Though their recent press release did not cover
Investments in this area as stste.
Hope that if this occurs it will result in a better
Bid for us all the shareholders
I was fortunate to buy 15,00p shares at $.067
and then it swung up eod
Does anyone know what the PWC writeoff of $70 M note 5 of the financials as l statements that was a I'm p.o sir mb ent charge of the $140M plant down to $47M for the plant actually for we hat reason since the plant is on ly 2 years old.Was it because the plant was running at 25 percent capacity or for some other reason.?
Does anyone have an opinion on the halt in trading and the conditional acquisition of salvia of UK for the issuance of 767 Million shares of ptgef for salvia will affect our pps? So far ptgef has not traded