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Nice, well-thought post. And sorry I did not reply to your PM; I do not have a premium subscription, and thus could not respond.
I believe the precise timeline depends on the potential emission levels, and thus the need for the stack test, and other environmental considerations.
Assuming low emissions, and P2O falls under so-called "minor projects," then we are looking at a maximum of 45 days from the date the application is complete.
If, on the other hand, the DEC classifies P2O as a "major project" (which I have no reason to suspect is the case, although I cannot know for sure) we are looking at a maximum 90 days from the date the application is complete.
If the DEC holds a public hearing, then a maximum of 60 days from receipt of the hearing record. Public hearings are not ordinarily held on minor projects.
Title V facility permits have even more obscure timelines, although I have no reason to believe, at this point, that JBI's emissions subject it to Title V.
Note that the above 45, 90, and 60 day timeframes refer to the deadline for issuing the permit, and not necessarily the normal expectation date. The applicant has remedies in the event of a failure to issue the permit within the time prescribed (and the permit may be deemed granted, despite lack of express approval from the DEC).
Here is the regulation from which I derive the above, which I have been unable to link directly to this forum in the past. The cite is 6 N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. 621.10.
Section 621.10.* Final decisions on applications.
(a) The department or its agent shall mail to the applicant and its representative, if applicable, a decision in the form of: a permit, a permit with conditions or a statement that the permit applied for has been denied, with an explanation for the denial. This must be done within the following time periods:
(1) for a minor project for which no adjudicatory public hearing has been held: on or before 45 calendar days after the date the application was complete. If the permit applied for has been denied or is issued with significant conditions attached, then the decision notification must include an opportunity for an adjudicatory hearing to be held. The applicant may request a hearing by writing to either the regional permit administrator or the chief permit administrator, as instructed in the decision notification, within 30 calendar days of the date of the mailing of either the notice of denial or the permit with conditions. The department must commence the hearing within 45 calendar days of receiving the request;
(2) for a major project for which no public hearing has been held: on or before 90 calendar days after the date the application was complete. If the permit applied for has been denied or is issued with significant conditions attached, the decision notification will state that the applicant has the right to an adjudicatory hearing. The applicant may request a hearing by writing to either the regional permit administrator or the chief permit administrator, as instructed in the decision notification, within 30 calendar days of the date of the mailing of either the notice of denial or the permit with conditions. The department must commence the hearing within 45 calendar days of receiving the request;
(3) for any application for which a public hearing has been held on or before 60 calendar days after the receipt by the department of the complete hearing record; and
(4) for a project which a lead agency has determined may have a significant impact on the environment for the purposes of SEQR, and for which the department is not the lead agency: the time periods specified in this Part shall be suspended not less than 35 days prior to the date on which a final decision is required pursuant to this Part, pending receipt from the lead agency of either a final environmental impact statement, or a determination of nonsignificance. Upon receipt of these materials the time periods shall resume.
(5) Notwithstanding the time periods established in paragraphs (2) and (3) of this subdivision, for applications for title V facility permits, the department may not issue a final decision unless the EPA has been provided 45 calendar days to review any responsiveness summary, and the proposed permit issued by the department in accordance with subdivision (e) of this section. The public may petition the EPA to object to the issuance of the proposed permit and the EPA may bar issuance of the proposed permit (see Part 201 of this Title).
(b) If the department or its agent fails to mail a decision within the time periods specified above, the applicant may make notice of that failure, by means of certified mail, return receipt requested, addressed to the commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation, attention: Chief Permit Administrator, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Division of Environmental Permits, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-1750. If authority to issue and deny permits has been delegated by the commissioner to another agency, notice must also be made to the chief executive of such agency. Such notice must contain the applicant's name, location of the proposed project, the office in which the application was filed, the identification numbers assigned to the application in any notice from the department and a statement that a decision is sought according to this subdivision or ECL 70- 0109(3)(b). Any notice failing to provide this information will not invoke this provision.
(c) If the department or its agent fails to mail the decision to the applicant within five working days of the receipt of such notice, the application will be deemed approved and the permit deemed granted, subject to the standard terms or conditions applicable to such a permit. The provisions of this subdivision do not apply to:
(1) delegated HWMF permits or RAPs; and
(2) title V facility permits, unless the department has satisfied all requirements established under this Part and Part 201 of this Title regarding notice and opportunity for review of draft permits by EPA, affected states and the public; or
(3) other federally enforceable air permits unless the department has satisfied all requirements for review of draft permits by the public.
(d) Notwithstanding the time periods for decisions specified above, the department or its agent will not be required to issue a decision on an application, nor will a permit be deemed issued, until the applicant has provided satisfactory proof of any public notice required, posted any bonds required, and paid all fees or costs assessed by the department.
(e) For delegated permits, the department will issue a responsiveness summary to relevant comments relating to such permits that were received during the public comment period or during any hearing. The provisions of this paragraph are not applicable to permits for which a final environmental impact statement otherwise satisfying the requirements of this subdivision has been prepared pursuant to section 617.9 of this Title. The responsiveness summary must:
(1) identify of any conditions in the final permit that are different from the conditions in the draft permit, and the reasons for the changes; and
(2) for title V facility permits, be issued within 60 days of the date the application is complete except when a hearing is required. The responsiveness summary must also reference the procedures contained in Part 201 of this Title that the public must follow if they elect to petition the EPA to object to the issuance of the proposed permit.
(f) An application for a permit may be denied for failure to meet any of the standards or criteria applicable under any statute or regulation pursuant to which the permit is sought, including applicable findings required by article 8 of the ECL and its implementing regulations at Part 617 of this Title, or for any of the reasons set forth in section 621.13(a)(1)-(6) of this Part.
Significant enough for a discussion, sure. Significant enough for a public announcement? Maybe. But the mere fact of completion is not that significant, as this "test" is not a simple pass or fail, but rather a data collection process to determine the scope of emissions, or at least that's how I understand it. It is a necessary prerequisite to getting a permit, granted, and it may be reasonable to infer from test completion that a permit is forthcoming, but I think most people recognize that the permit, rather than stack test completion, will be the big announcement.
There are regulatory procedures and guidelines that impose time constraints, and remedies when applicable dates are not met. Yes, the DEC has some discretion and is largely calling the shots, but it is not a simple determination of "whenever the government gets around to it."
FEMA disaster response is irrelevant.
The post claiming that the application averages over 100 pages was based, according to the link provided, on a list of issued Title V facility permits. A number of other posts I read contained copy-and-paste info regarding Title V permitting. None of the posts I read provided any explaination as to why JBI's potential emission levels would require the company to obtain a Title V permit. (Have JBI's test emission reports even been made publically available?)
For those who wish to read more about Title V reporting, you can start with "subchapter V", available here:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=BROWSE&TITLE=42USCC85&PDFS=YES
For a book summarizing key points on the subject, you could check your local library for the Clean Air Act Handbook by David Wooley and Elizabeth Morss.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0314997512/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0314980083&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DN7RV2SV9DXVZF8SQWZ
Not all air permits are subject to Title V.
Perhaps it would help if we go back to the original question posed:
"Any idea how long it takes on average to get the permit once the test is successful?"
That question is not answered by the region 9 EPA's FAQ section, as the time line set forth therein (California) does not apply to JBI, nor would any other region 9 jurisdiction's time line. (Sure, the FAQ provide us the unremarkable guidance that the amount of time to get the permit depends on its complexity and the permitting authority at issue.) I am assuming, of course, that the person asking the above question was referring to the air permit sought from the NY DEC, as opposed to some other environment-related permit.
I proposed (and please correct me if I am mistaken) that the applicable time frame, or at least the outer limits, are set forth in 6 N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. 621.10, the text of which I posted in a prior message, and which may be found through the NY Dept. of State's website: http://www.dos.state.ny.us/info/nycrr.html. I'll bet you could also find this info through the DEC's website. Other state's rules, procedures, and time lines are irrelevant to JBI's activities in New York.
I acknowledged, however, that this regulation does not answer the original poster's question in full, as the time period set forth in the regulation runs (generally) from the date the application is complete, as opposed to the date the stack test is successful. Hopefully, JBI will be diligent in promptly completing the application once it passes the stack test. How long that typically takes a company is beyond me.
?????
I think you are combining assertions in related posts to create confusion where no confusion exists. I said that another poster had confused New York DEC region 9 with U.S. EPA region 9. I never said, or implied, that I was confused by the EPA's FAQ section (or header). All I said in regard to that section was that it is misleading to post, in response to a question concerning the timeline for JBI's permit application, a link to commentary regarding state law procedures in California (or other EPA region 9 jurisdictions), which have nothing to do with JBI.
It is safe to assume that the same EPA regulations apply to both regions 2 and 9, but it is not safe to assume that the same state laws and procedures, or the same judicial determinations, apply to both regions. So, to the extent that the "region 9" EPA provides guidance concerning EPA regulations, which is not contradicted by 2nd Circuit judicial interpretation (or Supreme Court of course), then such information is entitled to due weight. References to state law timelines within EPA region 9, in contrast, are completely irrelevant to JBI or any other company in New York.
The confusion stems from intermixing generic terms found from two different sources, and concluding that they are synonymous.
As I stated previously, I was not sure if the link would work, so I provided a citation for all those who wished to discover the information: 6 N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. 621.10.
You should be able to click links and get to it from the NY Dept of State website:
http://www.dos.state.ny.us/info/nycrr.html
Here is the text:
"Section 621.10.* Final decisions on applications.
(a) The department or its agent shall mail to the applicant and its representative, if applicable, a decision in the form of: a permit, a permit with conditions or a statement that the permit applied for has been denied, with an explanation for the denial. This must be done within the following time periods:
(1) for a minor project for which no adjudicatory public hearing has been held: on or before 45 calendar days after the date the application was complete. If the permit applied for has been denied or is issued with significant conditions attached, then the decision notification must include an opportunity for an adjudicatory hearing to be held. The applicant may request a hearing by writing to either the regional permit administrator or the chief permit administrator, as instructed in the decision notification, within 30 calendar days of the date of the mailing of either the notice of denial or the permit with conditions. The department must commence the hearing within 45 calendar days of receiving the request;
(2) for a major project for which no public hearing has been held: on or before 90 calendar days after the date the application was complete. If the permit applied for has been denied or is issued with significant conditions attached, the decision notification will state that the applicant has the right to an adjudicatory hearing. The applicant may request a hearing by writing to either the regional permit administrator or the chief permit administrator, as instructed in the decision notification, within 30 calendar days of the date of the mailing of either the notice of denial or the permit with conditions. The department must commence the hearing within 45 calendar days of receiving the request;
(3) for any application for which a public hearing has been held on or before 60 calendar days after the receipt by the department of the complete hearing record; and
(4) for a project which a lead agency has determined may have a significant impact on the environment for the purposes of SEQR, and for which the department is not the lead agency: the time periods specified in this Part shall be suspended not less than 35 days prior to the date on which a final decision is required pursuant to this Part, pending receipt from the lead agency of either a final environmental impact statement, or a determination of nonsignificance. Upon receipt of these materials the time periods shall resume.
(5) Notwithstanding the time periods established in paragraphs (2) and (3) of this subdivision, for applications for title V facility permits, the department may not issue a final decision unless the EPA has been provided 45 calendar days to review any responsiveness summary, and the proposed permit issued by the department in accordance with subdivision (e) of this section. The public may petition the EPA to object to the issuance of the proposed permit and the EPA may bar issuance of the proposed permit (see Part 201 of this Title).
(b) If the department or its agent fails to mail a decision within the time periods specified above, the applicant may make notice of that failure, by means of certified mail, return receipt requested, addressed to the commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation, attention: Chief Permit Administrator, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Division of Environmental Permits, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-1750. If authority to issue and deny permits has been delegated by the commissioner to another agency, notice must also be made to the chief executive of such agency. Such notice must contain the applicant's name, location of the proposed project, the office in which the application was filed, the identification numbers assigned to the application in any notice from the department and a statement that a decision is sought according to this subdivision or ECL 70- 0109(3)(b). Any notice failing to provide this information will not invoke this provision.
(c) If the department or its agent fails to mail the decision to the applicant within five working days of the receipt of such notice, the application will be deemed approved and the permit deemed granted, subject to the standard terms or conditions applicable to such a permit. The provisions of this subdivision do not apply to:
(1) delegated HWMF permits or RAPs; and
(2) title V facility permits, unless the department has satisfied all requirements established under this Part and Part 201 of this Title regarding notice and opportunity for review of draft permits by EPA, affected states and the public; or
(3) other federally enforceable air permits unless the department has satisfied all requirements for review of draft permits by the public.
(d) Notwithstanding the time periods for decisions specified above, the department or its agent will not be required to issue a decision on an application, nor will a permit be deemed issued, until the applicant has provided satisfactory proof of any public notice required, posted any bonds required, and paid all fees or costs assessed by the department.
(e) For delegated permits, the department will issue a responsiveness summary to relevant comments relating to such permits that were received during the public comment period or during any hearing. The provisions of this paragraph are not applicable to permits for which a final environmental impact statement otherwise satisfying the requirements of this subdivision has been prepared pursuant to section 617.9 of this Title. The responsiveness summary must:
(1) identify of any conditions in the final permit that are different from the conditions in the draft permit, and the reasons for the changes; and
(2) for title V facility permits, be issued within 60 days of the date the application is complete except when a hearing is required. The responsiveness summary must also reference the procedures contained in Part 201 of this Title that the public must follow if they elect to petition the EPA to object to the issuance of the proposed permit.
(f) An application for a permit may be denied for failure to meet any of the standards or criteria applicable under any statute or regulation pursuant to which the permit is sought, including applicable findings required by article 8 of the ECL and its implementing regulations at Part 617 of this Title, or for any of the reasons set forth in section 621.13(a)(1)-(6) of this Part."
This really doesn't matter, but I think you are confusing New York Department of Environmental Conservation "regions" with Federal Environmental Protection Agency "regions." The former applies to regions within New York, whereas the latter refers to regions in the USA.
Here are numbered New York DEC regions:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/about/50230.html
Here are numbered United States EPA regions:
http://www.epa.gov/region9/about-region9.html
Again, none of this really matters. What matters, for purposes of the original question posed, is the pertinent timeline for the application process. References to other states' laws, and inapplicaple laws in general, do not help, and are very misleading.
My point was that California law does not apply (regardless of the EPA region), so you post was a little misleading in that regard. Your focus should be on New York law, recognizing Federal overlay of course. Again, I believe the maximum timelines are found here:
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cnt=Document&db=NY%2DCRR%2DF%2DTOC%3BTOCDUMMY&docname=342027942&findtype=W&fn=%5Ftop&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT84890245118248&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL10%2E08&service=Find&spa=NYCRR%2D1000&vr=2%2E0
These timelines run from date of application (or date of hearing when applicable), so answering the original question, regarding time from date of stack test, cannot be answered by this reg. We need someone with experience in processing these applications (plural) to answer that.
Unresponsive. New York is not in "region 9" which according to your post is "Serving Arizona, California, Hawaii, Nevada, the Pacific Islands, and Tribal Nations." Thus, references to California state law, or any other state law within that region, are irrelevant.
So I guess you were making a joke rather than answer the question to which you were responding (i.e., length of time to get a permit).
Yes, I understand 9 months gestation in the literal, birth-giving sense (i.e., unrelated in any way to permit applications).
Nine months?! Where is that from?
My understanding is that the general rule is maximum 45 days from application for "minor projects", maximum 90 days for "major projects", or 60 days from public hearing (if applicable).
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cnt=Document&db=NY%2DCRR%2DF%2DTOC%3BTOCDUMMY&docname=342027942&findtype=W&fn=%5Ftop&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT5063449517248&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL10%2E08&service=Find&spa=nycrr%2D1000&vr=2%2E0
If the link doesn't work, it is a cite to 6 N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. 621.10.
I think the confusion is due to reading and quoting E-Trade's procedures, rather than the actual rule.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=674d9181272dcc31a5707ac353f5ff20&rgn=div8&view=text&node=17:2.0.1.1.12.0.32.28&idno=17
I hope this helps.