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dkgross- try that Google search. Everyone from Motley Fool to Gainskeeper uses 30 days from trade date (sale date).
tradewell - do a Google search (no quotes)
30 day wash sale rule trade date
tradewell - 30 days from sale date. dkgross is wrong.
Looks like 200K at .09 got eaten fairly quick - interesting to see that 200K block bounce around, each time at a higher price.
kajun - QBID (or TMM really) may indeed be viable, but that is not related to the stock or their shareholders. There are other examples of companies who appear to be viable but have absolutely fecked their believers over. QBID, PRRM, ADOT just off the top of my head.
jack, any good virus remover should help get that AOL off your system.
OT: pfrenz I thought I was watching a preview for Ice Age 2 for a minute. That is going to be a great movie. No doubt our time is coming here at WHAI.
pfrenz - wash sales, you mean ? 30 calendar days from sale date. Look at PTSC and recent news regarding royalties and patent on chip tehnology. This could finally start moving after false starting for several years now.
I see - so then that means everyone has to buy at the ask. Thats bullish, I guess.
I think we will see a .0001 ask this week.
New SEC Guidelines Shield Shareholders
By ELLEN SIMON, AP Business Writer
Sat Jan 28, 12:55 PM ET
NEW YORK - How can the Securities and Exchange Commission punish corporate crime without punishing shareholders? The scandals of the bubble years ended with record corporate penalties and restitution payments. WorldCom Inc. alone was ordered to repay $750 million. Under laws passed after the scandals, the fines were returned to the shareholders whose investments evaporated when the companies crashed and their stock prices plunged.
But even hundreds of millions of dollars in fines at the corporate level did little to compensate shareholders.
So the SEC says it may turn to the individuals convicted of corporate wrongdoing for further restitution for investors.
At the beginning of January, the SEC issued a statement on financial penalties for corporations, saying it will look at "whether the issuer's violation has provided an improper benefit to shareholders, or conversely whether the violation has resulted in harm to shareholders.
"Where shareholders have been victimized by the violative conduct, or by the resulting negative effect on the entity following its discovery, the commission is expected to seek penalties from culpable individual offenders acting for the corporation," the statement said.
The guidelines are meant to bring "clarity, consistency and predictability" to the SEC's enforcement efforts, agency Chairman Christopher Cox said at a news conference.
As SEC Commissioner Paul S. Atkins said in a Jan. 19 speech before the Securities Regulation Institute in San Diego, "In financial fraud cases, shareholders, who are the ultimate owners of the corporations on which we impose these penalties, may have already been punished through reputational and stock-price damage."
Atkins called the SEC's statement "a more rational and systematic approach to deciding whether to impose penalties on shareholders."
Not everyone is impressed.
"The statement is so general, it really doesn't tell you much," said Peter J. Henning, a former senior attorney for the division of enforcement at the SEC who is now a law professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. "It's kind of what everyone knew already: If you cooperate, it's going to help you. If senior management were involved, it's going to be a problem. How extensive the wrongdoing was and what timeframe it covered will be considered."
There's been a push-pull within the SEC on penalties, with the commission's Democratic members in favor of penalties and its Republican members opposed.
For investors, there is no punishment for corporate crooks that will make them whole.
Take the case of John Rigas, the founder of Adelphia Communications Corp., which imploded after Rigas and his sons diverted $1.9 billion from the company for personal use. John Rigas and son Timothy were sentenced to jail terms last year. Both are appealing, but even if they do their time, shareholders in Adelphia, a cable company that went bankrupt, will still have dramatically shrunken portfolios.
The SEC imposed fines and restitutions totaling $715 million from Adelphia, but it didn't come close to pulling investors out of the red. The company's peak market cap, before the scandals and subsequent bankruptcy, was $8.4 billion.
What's the best way to punish corporate crimes?
"I wish I knew," Henning said. "To this point, no one has come up with one. ... It's so much easier if someone steals your purse."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060128/ap_on_bi_ge/wall___main
OT: pfrenz - I would but nobody can explain those 9M blocks at .0001 that show up on the ticker afterhours. About 12B - 15B shares a day for days now. I have never seen anything like it. CMKX did the same thing too, but not to this extent. Pretty bizarre stuff.
Frank might have indeed upped the a/s to say 500B, issued 250B to himself, and prenegotiated with 20 major stakeholders willing to buy 10B share blocks at $1M each. The mysterious 'Bob' that nealgalt is referring to is probably one of these stakeholders purchasing one or more of these blocks.
This would fit the scenario that Q is worth 50M today with 500B shares worth .0001 - I would also suggest that this would be the final end of the dilution. Every holder of QBID will see the value of their holdings drop to about 20-40% of what they are today. If Q can grow its value to $1B in time, it would make shares worth .0020 under the 500B a/s scenario.
I don't know who Bob is - but maybe so . . .
So I take it Frank is selling large portions of the company in parcels of perhaps multi billions of shares each.
OT: I will play Texas Holdem on Yahoo sometimes just for fun. I used to be a video poker fiend back in my Vegas days. I'm glad now that I stopped playing.
Paint !! Give me paint !! I feel like I am at a blackjack table. lolol
Not too many coming down - good sign.
You ran it up the flagpole, and someone saluted ! lol
Speed, you are right - Timothy Strunker, et al filed the derivitive lawsuit on 11/3/05, not Peterson. Thanks for pointing that out, I was wrong.
Welcome aboard, Jack. IMO Peterson is primarily persuing his own interests. He is trying to rescue an investment gone bad, not any kind of philanhropic motivation to it at all. He has millions that will slip away if he can't/won't do anything about it. If he (and his associates) cannot salvage this situation, then game over. One way or another, we will be hearing about this for a long time as he filed the derivitive lawsuit.
Why - I left a message for Bobwins the moderator to come over, and see what if anything we want to do with naming new mod(s), etc, and see if he wants to get involved again. He sold just before the crash and hasn't been back since.
OT: Bobwins
Bob you are needed on the WHAI board. We are moving over from RB and need help with the moderator situation. Things are perhaps going to get interesting once again. whyaskwhyca has been doing the legwork in getting us moved over.
Maybe, but I think those who are still holding WHAI from $2 or better might behoove themselves to average down from there, provided they still believe in the story. But those folks were investing and not necessarily trading.
TT - I agree IHub is better. I know of a few boards that made the switch, but it will take time. Some of the RB posters have ID's on IHub now and that is a good start. It will not surprise me one bit to see RB go away perhaps soon.
I will reference your posts on RB later today.
OT: No doubt the Steelers had the power yesterday - SB too close to call, but I like Seattle, old rival AFC West team.
Hi pfrenz, welcome aboard !! If you can contact other lost members, please let them know about our RB refugee camp we have set up here. Unfortunately unless someone was saving postings a lot of good DD and discussion could well be lost, otherwise I am happy we can keep the discussion going. Thanks to Why for all his legwork.
Boardcentral www.boardcentral.com is a good way to search for other WHAI boards, and to find others to pull over here. I will work on it after footbrawl today. I live in Denver and I can't think about this stuff right now.
FWIW I am (was ?) rjr999 on RB.
bobs23 - all of RB *may* be down for good, due to major liability problems, P&D scamming, SEC, etc. Read Yahoo HRC board 324691 for details and follow that thread. If you have any private email IDs for our RB WHAI bretheren and sisteren maybe we can get things going over here.
RB is down, must be pretty bad.
Its beginning to look more and more like things are going to work out well with WHAI. There is a pretty convincing case for the s/p to go to .60 or better maybe in the near term. Some say more, some kind of buyout is in the making but they are doing a good job of keeping things quiet. There seems to be a proxy fight and shareholder revolt thing going on and some think this could cause a bidding war and a float squeeze. Technically it is looking pretty good too. Closed solid over the 50 day MA for the first time in 5 months or so. Things could suddenly become very very interesting.
Damn - I hadn't look at a while at this - looks like its ending horribly.
So I guess the .0002's then the .0001's get hammered out of existence and we go to no bid ? Wonder how long it will take for Frank to come up for air . . .
And because of scarcity of drilling rigs, and high probability of 'dry holes' PBLS may not see revenue from their Nevada holdings for years. And if there is a meaningful recovery in the price of oil/gas, they may see it turn into so much wasteland.
Right, elsie. Shades of QBID .0270 ==> .0003 same problem with nonreporting, T/A gagged, waiting for audit, paying with shares, preferred shares, massive dilution, compounded with panic selling, loss of patience, technical breakdown, possible lawsuits in the future. Old share buyback at .004 IMO thats where we are going.
Wheres Carl Sagan when you need him ?
Massive overhang of shares, buyback at .004 - support at .016 will be shattered and become overhang, etc.
Massive dilution, r/s in future ? .004 buyback kicks in, like before ?
Man it looks like this stock is turning to stone . . . 6 months + for audit completion, then application for listing on a higher exchange . . . 3 more months . . . seriously this looks like another one I was watching, BTSI/NDOL. All the promise in the world, but all it did was turn to stone. GLTA but I will keep watching.
Exactly. Thats the point I was trying to make. All these preferred and restricted shares are different classes of stock and would have to be designated as such whenever the share structure ever gets straightened out. You can't simply give a class of shares for something and then distribute its value among the common. It doesn't work that way.
No wisecrack replies or references to useless posts or circular arguments. Just don't do it.
PBLS - looking good, but I am concerned by preferred shareholders, and ownership of the company by preferred vs. common shareholders. While common might not be diluted as of now, conversion of preferred to common certainly would dilute, by an unknown extent.