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That is an interesting conundrum you have netered into with your argument. Do you understand what fiduciary means? IF they were delaying the filing (or just not being overly aggressive in dealing with the auditor situation) to prevent conversions from taking place - who does that benefit...? It certainly WOULD benefit the company AND more importantly the shareholders. Isnt that their most basic role as fiduciaries? If the argument is those conversions were going to once again wipe out shareholder value through aggressive shorting (most of it naked) - wouldn't the SEC have to nod to protecting the shareholders - especially when their auditor was suspended BY the SEC? SO - in acting as fiduciaries in this situation - they would be acting morally as well.
Now - the legal component is a little stickier. Again - it is up to the SEC to enforce the R&R but they are in place to PROTECT the outside shareholders FROM these very tactics. In civil court - the financiers can only argue damages by NOT being able to cover their short positions - how is that a damage of the original loan agreement? It is a perversion of the agreement. If the company pays off the loan amounts per the terms - the financiers cant justly argue damages for the perversions. If they want to argue penalties - that is a different story. However, with a suspended auditor and the financiers having made a sizeable return already on the original loan agreement - how sympathetic will a judge/jury be to further compensation?
matthew - can not respond to your direct message but paavo has been very active on the yahoo PSWS board and formerly on the iHub board pumping away for PSWS (where leslie kessler went after cpcf). he is still just as nonsensical and belligerent. i can see him as being paul shabty. i never met the guy but one guy who i did speak with years ago that had met with paul thought the same thing based on their styles. who knows. hope he/they both end up behind bars or with hefty civil/federal fines
http://www.sec.gov/complaint/select.shtml
It is pretty straightforward. Provide as much detail as possible (from filings, PRs, own DD, etc). The more work you do for them and easier to make it to connect the dots to an actual violation - the morenlikely they will put some time into it. That being said - I am aware of two complaints being filed already surrounding the MOBL shares and how the MLOG share structure changed while it was dark. Whole lot of questions and issues surrounding how those two ended up controlling MLOG and having the shares/cntrol to do the reverse merger.
Dont forget to mention the court cases they have been settlng on the IP side and unreported revenues coming in that were occurring BEFORE MLOG went private and should have been reported and filed uponm those were material events in every sense of the SEC wording. Not a leap to allude they went private to hide the IP settlement monies and pay themselves lavishly through salary and bonuses until the monies run out.
yes - that is a real scam. i used the product prior to it becoming available on Amazon and i wrote a review on Amazon when it became available. big red flag. call the SEC
More blatant misinformation / obfuscation.
Amazon is now the seller of the energy shot. last year they had a couple smaller distributors/retailers marketing the product when the majority of the reviews were written. santas outlet was one of the carriers - they were third party sellers. amazon is now the direct seller and according to the site - just restocked.
also - there are new reviews from 6/7 and 6/9 on the product. there will continue to be more as it is being more widely distributed/promoted by Amazon.
i do as well. i just dont see it being sustainable. the question will be for long term shareholders is if it substantially raises the base after the run up turns into a sell off. slow and steady is much better for long term holders.
OK - fair enough. i didnt realize what you were referring to. i think it is a fair analysis of the momentum that will move it. valuation is a different story but that is often tossed out the window in OTC world
big difference between OS when looking at outstanding vs. fully diluted. that will become more clear when they are fully reporting. still a lot of capital agreements to digest and understand the entire impact if they are convertible (dilution). however, if the company continues to grow top and bottom line at the current pace then those who only look at charts and not fundamentals will have a field day with this giving current investors a great opp to monetize and reposition as they see fit.
what analysis are you referring to...?
how is it worth 10X what it is today?
"thecat1 Thursday, 05/28/15 07:11:04 AM
Re: None
Post # of 776
XCLL is easily worth 10 times as much as it is trading at. Wild swings lately. Huge volume. Big increases are likely. Good luck to all...."
are you basing that on revenues? net income? just potential in general? what OS are you using to determine that valuation?
have you looked at the last 8-12 quarters of revenue? did you understand the Jifu acquisition and then unwinding of it? know anything about Mach5 of the CCWatch? why did the company give 40MM shares JUST upon getting a lottery license...?
doesnt mean the price wont fall as fast as it runs up. i expect it will be a short lived, TA driven surge and fall. most that participate in the run will have NO idea what the company does or its past. they will strictly be trading on TA.
that being said - looks like there has been new money coming into this albeit is slowly and cautiously and the larger sellers have subsided/paused. while i pared down my position the last two times it went into the $0.30s - i didnt on this round. while i am not convinced of the long term strategy and still dont trust mgmt - the fundamentals are setting up to provide what could be a suitable exit for further share reduction
overly rudimentary view of the lawsuit/basis.
"I see so may post that HJOE had to start over when posting about PLN.
Here are some facts about the case.
Private Label Neutaceuticals, LLC Plaintiff is seeking $63,201.88 plus interest. Basis of Claim: Breach of Contract for Goods and Services.
So a small loss and a lawsuit for $63,201.88 - brought HJOE to a screeching halt - you have to be kidding me. More spinning by the HJOE insiders. "
while PLN is suing for that amount - that does not take into account the product that was purchased up front, shipped, and refused, the failed deliveries and contractual obligations not met that PLN did not fulfill due to product being off spec, mislabled, wrongly shipped, etc.
further, while $64K may not seem like a lot of money, when you are a fledgling company, growing aggressively, with no significant backers - you are looking at every dollar spent. based on the ramping up of sales, it is not difficult to see that the vast majority of their revenues coming in were going back out to prepay for product (on contract production in small quantities there are NO terms - everything is prepaid similar to what Korea deal is that they are executing now). when that cash flow stream is materially disrupted - everything goes askew. there is no product to sell to bring in cash to pay for new product runs. further, contracts with the 7/11s and such STILL must be met so inventory starts getting diverted to meet those large contracts which means the smaller deals which are higher GM get stuck and the company starts filling highest volume, lowest GM/revenue producing to keep the doors open.
when looking at it in terms of cash flow for a fledgling company that has no terms and is prepaying all product runs - $64K becomes immediately and specifically significant and material.
why would PLN insurance company be at the meeting tomorrow? if the settlement was favorable to PLN - why would the insurance company be showing up? insurance companies come to negotiate a settlement - not to negotiate a check (unless it is from another insurance company). #HJOE specifically tweeted insurance company and not PLN attorneys. further, if HJOE even mildly suspected the outcome wouldn't be favorable - why would they promote it or respond to the other tweets in that thread...? that doesnt make any rational sense.
when put into context with their earlier posts, the distribution deal signed Friday, and the celebratory mood this weekend - it provides credence that this meeting was scheduled/planned for in advance and HJOE is expecting a significantly positive outcome. besides the financial gain - any positive settlement gives credence to the company's contention that the PLN issue DID derail the 2012 growth going into 2013, the the product WAS being accepted eagerly into the market, and that there was both a domestic and international demand for the product.
i had previously not put much into the case (other than preparing for the risk associated with a loss) but winning a settlement is very significant. getting anything over $1MM will drastically change the fundamental financials for the company.
i would also expect an 8K to cover the distribution and this event even if all the details arent readily available. more than likely, the settlement with PLN will be confidential with limited details allowed to be published (they will eventually come out in the quarterly reports as "revenues from legal proceedings"). the company will still have a ways to go to move product in the ways they are looking to/alluding to but that suit and monies received from it (if significant) will put the company in a completely different footing and should put them in a position to eliminate all toxic debt and eliminate any further dilution.
stock looks poised to make a major jump. while past increases have brought sellers out - this current creep up has been met with no real resistance or sellers hurrying to accept bids. with the consistently increasing top and bottom lines - new investors are going to be more than ready to put the past behind them (even if they even do any real due diligence). share structure is still relatively clean on the surface (dont really know without full filings). not a lot of stocks in the $0.30 realm that will be generating those types of revenues ($15-18MM and $1-3M net income) with 32MM shares outstanding (non diluted).
wont take much of a push or some stock group to start promoting this to push it into the $1-1.50 realm on a quick run. ASK has remained thin. if the sellers have been exhausted - it will have little resistance at those multiples.
could be an interesting next 2-3 months.
seller was holding strong at the $0.045/0.046 level but just dropped their ASK to $0.038. could be due to BID dropping as well that has been consistently at $0.035.
i had been consistently above the $0.035 up until recently and took whatever shares people wanted to sell. been buying some others that are going on sale.
looks like the website has been redesigned to drive more revenue through the distillery side and also to get back to their roots with Wodka and Alibi.
they should actually show some decent numbers if/when they start filing again (even if it is limited filing on pinksheets.com). since they have removed all of the useless overhead with past mgmt team and looks to have ramped up some Wodka sales again - it will only take incremental gains on the distillery side to bring them into the black.
big question is how vested Consilium is in the long term turn around/ramp up. if they remain committed, this could end up being one heck of an investment at these levels. wouldnt take much to put this right back in that $0.30-$0.40 range prior to the collapse.
if the ASK drops back down into the low $0.03s again - i will probably start buying aggressively again.
I know. They also blew up their Twitter feed when the company announced they were closing. Definite value there but could NUTT retain that loyalty?
i sent an email to the company asking about that but heard nothing back.
when they did their last capital raise with magna - it could have been a logical transition. wholesoy was in over their heads on the expansion and couldnt make the ramp up fast enough to cover the new notes. NUTT has (surprisingly) had the equity avenue to do such things. of course - shareholders have no idea what the cost of that capital has been or will be in the future (dilution/convertible debt) but they have been getting it.
both top and bottom line have been increasing consistently and net income remains positive. that is a very good sign. imagine where the company/stock could be without all the negative history surrounding the owners/mgmt...? still haunting them and will continue to do so.
Consilium is the lender. Romer is listed as Interim CEO/managing director
http://ir.stockpr.com/panacheimports/management-team
New faces in various operational roles. No longer top heavy and non revenue producing titles. Good sign for shareholders if it continues.
Dr. Oz goes after PLN on product claims and endorsements
been awhile since i have posted on this board but the credibility of HJOE's claims that PLN damaged their business were dismissed aggressively and with venom. however, it appears that HJOE wasnt the only company that had this type of issue
i just viewed the video and went through the back and forth documentation from the Oz Show and PLN over the claims and counter claims. long story short - they accused PLN of using Oz' likeness to promote products and these products did not have in them what was claimed on the bottle. sound familiar?
they have the VP of PLN on video bragging about using Oz and his likeness to sell products and the show and then have those products tested to determine if the products have what they claim. they dont. he confronts PLN. they threaten him with a cease and desist. and he continues - because it sure looks like he is right when it comes to verified claims. this is simply amazing that they were that brash.
this goes to the heart of the HJOE/PLN case - fraud/incompetence. they mislabled, mispackaged, lied about ability to package, etc. looks like Oz did a lot of the legwork for credibility and competence. i dont know how the lawyers at PLN are playing that but that could certainly be used as "evidence" and/or support for HJOEs similar claims.
go to this link to see the show and supporting documentation:
http://www.doctoroz.com/episodes?page=2
and scroll down to the 5/1/15 show (original air date). "Dr. Oz Investigates Online Scams Using His Name to Dupe You"
recently the case against the company from HJOE to PLN went to mediation (the case against the owners of PLN personally were largely dismissed). this has to be VERY good for HJOE's prospects in getting their case settled/mediated. maybe this is what has spurred the rash of buying last week.
with the convertible debt largely reduced and currently stalled - if the company were to settle the PLN suit favorably, the payoff from the insurance company would be quick and HJOE could eliminate the remaining convertible debt, give instant credibility to their original derailment they claimed was caused by PLN(in 2012 they did close to $1.5MM on the recovery shot alone before the energy shot existed), and give them sufficient working capital to further the rollout, do some more traditional advertising, and possibly thrown $250-500K to a buyback.
with the current run - that would buy back considerably fewer shares than it would have a week ago but it would be a strong sign to the long term investors who have continued to buy throughout the massive dilution.
for those who are new - AS was increased to 5BB earlier this year (voted on late last year) and on last count was 1.7BB OS.
they provided very rough guidance of $5MM in sales in 2015 and reaffirmed that two months ago to a $3-5MM range based on Korea and a national retailer coming online. PO from Korea is due this week and first shipment is expected to move out early June. they are featured on a show on FYI channel that is airing 6/4/15 in which Larry The Cable Guy specifically talks about the shot in the airing of the show (he confirmed that on his FB/Twitter feeds).
the price was hammered down by a rash of convertible debt taken out in late 2013/early 2014 and more in late 3Q14. unfortunately for teh company, they were not able to get ahead of this debt and it came due prior to getting Korea/national retailer closed/cash flow rolling in earnest.
i am expecting $250-450K in revenues for 4Q14 when they announce based on a soft rollout of the energy shot in 3Q14 and new production and old inventory of recovery shot being able to be sold. TCA had a large portion of the recovery shot inventory tied up under a separate agreement that they finally resolved around 3Q14 as well that the company was then able to start selling that inventory. they went away from the old bottles with The Hangover movie characters on it to the new ones without and those are the ones you have mostly seen in pics on their SM feeds in Walgreens and such in NOLA and in Vegas.
if the price continues to move forward and a stronger base is created, the necessity of a R/s to provide liquidity for remaining convertible debt is reduced dramatically. further, if their attorneys can leverage the OZ show coverage/evidence of fraud/incompetence as support for their own case - that could force a quick settlement in favor of HJOE.
i was aware of the mentioning of PLN on Oz but had no idea how dramatic/damning the claims were against PLN. again, this should bode well for HJOE in their current case against PLN that was sent to mediation by the judge.
it has a rather low float as is or at least since last reported. most of the shares from past mgmt were surrendered back to the company. looks like those that wanted out have done so. still room under the AS to add should additional capital be needed. however, if they just get Wodka back to where it was and add several $MM in revenues from the distillery we will be WAY ahead of where we were two years ago when we were trading between $0.30-$0.50 when looking at the massive expense reductions from the ecec staff that was scuttled.
with several $MM from the distillery side producing around $0.30 or so on the GM side - the company could be in the black. need to see some updated numbers from the company since they went dark but so far - looks like Romer has done a good job moving this back in the right direction and the primary lender still is fully vested.
unless they have a blowout 1Q15 where the equipment sector finally starts breakout out and becoming a serious contributor to the top and bottom line-i expect this to continue to languish and be nothing but a short term flipping stock for the next 3=6 months.
profitscout - you have been around awhile - what was your take on Q4/2014 results...? i have been negative on this mgmt team/BOD since Ma bungled the 4Q13 results in the CC 3/30/14. stock/company has not recovered from that disastrous call where the company stock was already suffering. it went into freefall and has been there since. even returning to profitability and giving about as strong as guidance for 2015 as i have ever heard them give - the selling continues ( as well as increased inside shorting).
to me - this remains a clear signal that long term investors continue to give up on the current strategy and moving capital to more viable alternatives. the last report filed with insider/exec compensation only added fuel to the fire. HIll made well over $700K in 2014 and Syrbnik had over $100K in cash for director fees. at 98 - how many meetings and direct input does he have? castle and his cohort on the compensation and exec team are the only members of BOTH teams and they are paying themselves for two separate meetings for each group when they could simply be doing it in one. further - they have the balls to give themselves higher fees being the "chairperson" of a committee. just maddening as a long term shareholder to read that type of BS.
they have quit responding to any investors that arent blowing sunshine up their collective arses and even then - they are mostly ignoring all calls/emails. Ma used to respond to emails but always wanted to talk on the phone. while i appreciated his what appeared to be candor - it got tiring hearing how our money was in good hands (heard this from several shareholders) when it has had three straight years of declines and below the price of the Dempsey debacle/buyout.
unless they have a blowout
i have had very few BIDs filled in the last several weeks and when they have been, they have been partial fills such as 1048 of 13000 filled on Friday. that was the only one i had filled all week. i have been going just inside the best BID shown and have had a mix of AON or open. the large sellers that were closing positions (or appeared to be) seem to be long gone.
after an absence on Twitter, they seem to be getting more aggressive and the new website looks to be geared equally towards teh distillery. i would like to see if they were able to ramp up revenues/contract blending on that end. prior mgmt didnt seem to have a clue on the operations side as that was a monster asset for the limited production they were committing to with Wodka/Alibi. has the new, leaner group figured this out?
wasnt me selling. i sold some in the mid $0.30s on the way up but havent on the way down.
the stock price remains a function of trust in mgmt and transparency.
looks like it is an old article from what i can find.
what did you think of the new website?
I couldnt find a newer instance on the web
Story wont open. Did they renew/extend the original agreement signed end of 2012?
new site is up. looks like a heavy emphasis on the distillery side. wodka and alibi both remain heavily emphasized/promoted. has a more professional and targeted approach then former site that played on the Wodka stereotypes to which it was trying to attract the audience.
i am not a programmer but it appears the company spent some serious time/money to put that site together. not exactly something a company would do if it was going under or trying to keep the doors open.
looking for an update from the company or returning to full filing with the SEC.
http://wholesoyco.com/item/farewell-from-wholesoy
NUTT recently and quietly announced the termination of AlphaHelix acquisition and now WholeSoy goes belly up.
I posted previously that the company appeared to be highly leveraged. Curious to see what kind of hit NUTT may end up taking on this.
did the rocket ship explode on the launch pad or did they forget where they stored the solid rocket fuel...?
if the company continues to post strong top and bottom line growth, remains EBIDTA positive, and starts filing with the SEC - then the negative will continue to be less of a going concern.
however, right now it remains a significant barrier for those that know this company/mgmt team. the faster they get current/full status with filings and fully disclose compensation/debt arrangements - the faster the company will trade on forwarded looking results instead of past.
i havent purchased. i still own the vast majority of my shares. i did sell some in the $0.30s to move some money into another stock. i will continue to see what they do here. looks like the big sellers have left. nothing on L2 past the 25K at $0.41
right now - everything looks very positive for the stock. i would say the only thing holding them back is the past which remains a major negative.
i didnt. are you buying?
i completely missed this in the last PR on 2/11:
"Nutroganics also announced that it will no longer pursue the acquisition of a controlling interest in Alpha Helix, Inc"
i actually see that as a very strong positive. i saw absolutely NO synergies between this brand and what they were trying to put together from an organic/lifestyle brands company. VERY limited demographic that would be interested in this product and sales/promotions seemed to be tied up entirely with a bodybuilder personality that quickly exited the brand (9-12 months after launch).
company still needs to answer for restructuring MLOG during dark reporting periods and where the MLOG shares that MOBL owned went.
IR responded the countdown was for the new website that is in the works.
i asked for an update for 2014 results and they responded that they willprovide an update when results are available. didnt get much but wasnt expecting to. very little they can say.
the good news is Consilium appears to stillbe invested and interested in continuing. the distillery side looks like it is actively seeking new business/contracts from the site. i am trying to confirm some of this through another source to see what kind of feedback they get from the distillery/company on contract distilling/packaging pricing/capabilities.
Another 30 min until new site. Hope there is an update for investors
has nothing to do with seeing the light. the issue is whether the light is the end of the tunnel or an oncoming train.
did you step up your offer? was that you for 25K at $0.26? that is a good sign goign forward for the stock price when that wasnt even partially filled.
new buyer seems to have appeared on the BID. 25K shares at $0.26. highest BID i have seen since the last run to $0.50. looks like the company is finally attracting new investors and/or existing investors are starting to look at the company through new lenses. it has been on the BID for a little while and not immediately filled which also suggests that large seller has been exhausted. not much resistance right now once it goes through $0.35.
if the numbers are legit and the trend continues - the stock remains substantially below fair value on a P/S and PE basis. however, it will be interesting to see how many quarters it will take before investors forgive the sins of the past.
clueless - thanks! that makes considerably more sense.
the distillery site is new and appears they are actively looking to grow that side of the business. vertical integration is still the key to reducing costs on Wodka and improving GM which is essential since it is in the low priced Vodka ranges. looks like they are doing a refresh on Alibi as well which has won some small acclaim but i certainly havent seen it anywhere i travel or even talked about (unlike Wodka).
more importantly is the complete slashing of the now realized useless overhead of the past mgmt team. the company has removed almost $2MM in overhead and should have slightly increased revenues based on last report and some assumptions on increased production at the distillery (more activity at the actual site).
if the clock is more than just a new website and provides some details on strategy/operating results going forward - this could see a quick rebound. right now - the market cap is just over $1MM and it had sales year end of $3.9MM in 2013 and should be around $2.3-3.0MM 2014 year end depending on ramp up at distillery and going back to their original distribution channels for Wodka. through 3Q14 they were at $1.9MM in revenues. while i dont expect them to get close to the $3.9MM of 2013 - looking at QoQ - they should have an impressive trend continuing and possibly a breakout quarter (relative to the last 4 in revenue):
Period Ending Jun 30, 2014 Mar 31, 2014 Dec 31, 2013 Sep 30, 2013
Total Revenue 656 635 545 306
if they are in the $700-900MM range - that would certainly look impressive on a YoY and QoQ basis and demonstrate an exponential increase in revenues on a R12 basis. while that alone wont be cause for lofty evaluations - it should remove the BK concerns, and provide a more fundamental valuation for the stock. right now - it is priced below BK levels considering the hard assets.
still very speculative and the company will need to address shareholders and provide some numbers but it does provide an interesting buying point for new/former investors. for me, it is an attractive pp to average down. i liked it more under $0.02 but if it goes back to the $0.30 range where it was with similar revenues, no distillery revenues, and significant decrease in SG&A - than this is still attractive.
if they look like they are on pace to do $4-5MM in revenues and possibly show positive net income on a F12 basis - this becomes a very attractive buy. for a growing company - 4-10x revenues is common. assuming $4MM in revenues - that would put market cap at $16MM with a 4X revenue valuation or 16X today's price. at that multiple - fair value today would be $0.64. if they are going to show positive net income - that would provide significant justification for a higher valuation.
from a mgmt standpoint - Dale was a marketer and brand specialist. while he put Wodka on the map as he did with other brands - it now seems obvious he was severely lacking in the mgmt/business skills to move this forward. Romer on the other hand has a background on both the operations and brand sides. addressing shareholders directly and getting numbers out along with some basic numbers/strategy would go a long way into restoring investor enthusiasm and bring around a faster turnaround in stock price.
why in the world was the last post removed and who removed it...?
it was directly related to the "topic" of the clock on the website post and the company's marketing in general.