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That is basically the same thing someone said about MDHI yesterday while there were millions on the ask and no body willing to sell.
It was untrue then just as it is now.
ceo1---if you have a virus that got past your software, it often disables the updates. Open your computer in safe mode with networking and download malwarebytes from cnet.com. Run a full scan in safe mode.
I switched from trendmicro to avast because trend was missing a lot of stuff. Avast is much better but I still use malwarebytes every so often as a backup.
I have addressed this in detail about MDHI on multiple occasions. Just like there was a post of 17 supposed MDHI pump and dumps that put "more that a billion" shares into the float.
When the history of MDHI is reviewed it is clear that there was only one P&D 3 1/2 years ago that dumped tens of thousands of shares. That P&D took the PPS from the 20's to the below 2 and MDHI has stayed there ever since.
But facts don't seem to matter to many people.
As the a certain German ruling party used to say, "tell a lie often enough with enough conviction and people will start to believe."
ceo1-If you have not done so, back up your hard drive. I recently had a problem and it turned out the software that runs the hard drive was corrupted. I had to buy a new hard drive and have all my data restored professionally. It can take a long time and can be very expensive. I got lucky and found someone local that many of the major disk repair companies subcontract with.
The initial prices I got stared at a minimum of a grand plus the cost of a new external hard drive and still would have needed to new internal one. I saved more than 75% on the cost of the labor and go lucky that they were able to save everything.
And finally, we never really know what SAFC shares sill sell for because the Market Makers might jump in but it look like there are a lot more sellers than buyers for SAFC even at these low prices.
It means they guaranteed those specific share to worth be .70 and will do whatever they can to get there but if SAFC's high PPS during a month before of a week after that date, SAFC must give MFTH 700 million SAFC shares or come up with another way to cover the missin $5.2 mill.
There are many different ways to define profitable.
Having gross profit for a month, a quarter, a year can be profitable.
Having a net profit for a month, a quarter, a year can be profitable.
Having a gross profit for the life of the company can be profitable and having a net profit for the life of the company is when it has become truly profitable.
All this happens in steps for a start up company. All we need is for the company to start showing some profits to offset the early losses and MDHI will start to take off.
The numbers for MDHI Robert-1 keeps posting are all accounting numbers. All the losses are inflated because there is depreciation and other write offs that will be carried over to offset the future profits. The really important figures are revenue, cost of good sold and operating expenses. In these numbers even the cost of goods sold is skewed as the company appears to be reporting the cost of goods manufactured rather than of those sold. It therefore accounts for the cost of creating the inventory and is why it fluctuates so much. The company does large manufacturing runs when they run low on product to keep the cost per unit low. THis makes expenses skewed in certain quarters but works towards overall cost control.
All of MDHI's numbers seem to be moving in a generally positive direction. Also, in the real world, cash flow is more important than profit. Yes, eventually a company needs profits to survive. However, a company can stay afloat while sustaining losses as long as there is cash flow but even a profitable company cannot keep going if past debt is eating up so much cash that operating expenses are not being covered.
MDHI's $2.50 PPS was the IPO price and lasted for the day of the IPO only. To use MDHI's IPO price of $2.50 as proof the company is mismanaged is as big a lie as any told by the company at any time.
IPO's are a randomly generated number. Look at the recent example of Facebook which raised the price of their IPO several times in the weeks and days leading up to when it initially started trading. They eventually opened at $42.50 per share.
Even as a long time profitable private company with billions in annual revenue at the time if it's launch as a public company, facebook's pps fell all the way to $17.55.
When MDHI it went public to raise money, MDHI was a start up company. IT was not some rich guy looking to become richer. It was a company with a good product and an idea of how to grow it over time. Not some rich guy looking to increase his wealth exponentially like FB or the WWE when McMahon took them piblic (and also watched the PPS plummet). MDHI is about creating, marketing and selling a product that is superior the others on the market from nothing. It takes 3-5 years for most companies to go from start up to profitability and if getting the company off the ground meant putting everything back into establishing the brand, I can wait a little for MDHI to have enough cash to pay the people required to become fully reporting.
It takes time. As I said yesterday, you can look at MDHI's numbers and see all the losses or you can look deeper and see growing revenue with shrinking losses followed by some re-invesment of capital. With all the new sales avenues, MDHI should be something special. All the dept cancellation just makes it better.
That is an inaccurate statement. 2.5 mil shares on the bid at .0016--someone trying to pilfer s a bunch of shares. Only 10k on the ask at .0021.
That is a huge discrepancy.
Interesting. Even though MDHI's numbers continue to show a loss, what I see there is a pattern of a new company that is growing revenue while reducing costs.
If there has been exponential revenue growth with the additional distribution channels like Costco then those of us who own shares will be very happy. The cancelled debt is just a bonus.
These numbers even explain the need to issue the 600 million new shares. If the previous losses were eating up all the cash flow from current profits an additional infusion of capital would be necessary to cover the costs associated with becoming a fully reporting company again.
shanett--This link was posted by MasterBidder right after the listing on the German exchange was revealed. The stock that is discussed did well because the listing was not legit, was fought by the actual company and caused a squeeze but the practice is well covered.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/26/ny-lot78-bbse-update-idUSnPNLA02851+1e0+PRN20130426
Pumpanddumps.com recently covered the practice in an e-mail that included a list of companies that were de-listed after hiding fake and or shorted shares in Germany. I think I deleted the e-mail so it is possible the PR in the link above was actually part of a hugely successful P&D. I know for a fact the SPNG one of the worst pump and dumps ever used the practice. SPNG also hired people to post on message boards to both pump the stock and call anyone who had anything less than stellar to say about it a basher. Not only did SPNG get de-listed and forced into chapter 7, most of the people involved got indicted. For the record, SPNG got an attorney to issue a fake opinion letter about fake restricted shares and released nearly 3 billion non-existent shares into the market using the BBSE to help hide those shares during the process.
There really is not any legitimate reason for a penny stock to be listed on multiple exchanges. While there is great potential for profit for those of us involved before the listing (especially if it is a massive P&D like BIZM of SPNG), it should concern anyone invested in SAFC. Even if it is legit, it is a form of dilution that does not need to be reported to the OTC market. If SAFC has 150 mil shares outstanding on the OTC market and another 150 mil shares listed on the German market the true OS is 300 mil shares and it takes twice as much to move the stock.
ceo1--I am very surprised that someone that does as much DD as you do and appears to be very selective in what companies to invest in is not bothered by such a shady practice. As to your comments about being a moderator, I don't spend enough time here to properly do the job and don't have enough invested in SAFC to change that. Again, my complaint is not about the post that was deleted--I did not see it and therefore have no opinion about it being deleted. My problem was the lack of civility towards an individual that came here to express frustration with SAFC and how SAFC is treating its investors. You may remember I had the exact same problem when people attacked frogger as a "basher" because he expressed some legit concerns about SAFC's practices.
I very strongly believe that posters should have the ability to freely discuss their opinions either positive or negative, give information either positive or negative, raise questions, answer questions and express frustration about the specific stock that is the topic of the board or issues directly related to the stock that is the topic of the board (or an answer to a specific question from another poster even if the answer discusses another stock) without being berated as a "pumper" or a "basher" or in a different manner just because another poster disagrees with what is expressed.
This should be true until a definitive pattern of abuse in either direction occurs.
Can't reply now. I have some things to do. I will try to get back to you tonight.
Please re-read my initial response about your MDHI P&D list. I agree 100% that 3-8-10 and 3-10-10 was an extended pump and dump by the company that added tens of millions of shares to the float. The #'s you just gave were actually from the 3-8-10 event. The 3-10-10 event helped keep volume up to extend the P&D but produced about half the volume.
Both of these pumps occurred more than 3 months after the IPO, after the PPS had already dropped from $2.50 to bounce between ,20 and .25. By the time the MDHI's only real P&D that occurred in March of 2010 was over the PPS had dropped below .02.
This Pump and Dump happened after the IPO lost 90% of it's value or more and did not produce anywhere near enough volume to add the billion+ shares to the float you have claimed MDHI has dumped. Since then MDHI had bounced around in the low pennies and sub pennies for the better part of 3 years.
Again, like I said in my initial response to your list, the fact that even one P&D happened 3 years ago bothers me some but I understand that sometimes company owners and/or managers are forced by lean times to take steps they prefer not to just to keep the doors open and get over a hump. MDHI has not been a repeated P&D scam designed to line the insiders pockets at the expense of the company and the shareholders.
I can show you one of those if you wish to see it.
No. MDHI went from an IPO price of $2.50 per share to a around 10% of the IPO at .25 per share on slow volume and low interest.
One of the most highly anticipated recent IPOs opened at $42.02 and went up to $45 before falling to less than $17.50 six months later.
Another famous one opened at $32 a little over a decade ago and dropped below $10 in a matter of weeks.
It is what often happens to IPO's---not every time but a lot.
Again, if you are interested I will provide the symbols.
May be the lower number accounts for what is being sold in the German exchange instead of in the US OTC market, There are shares being sold there now. the price is fluctuating between .002 and 003 euro's and has both an ask and bid over 1.5 mil shares.
My e-mail about the addition of the German market was not answered.
How is it possible that MDHI or its insiders have dumped over a billion shares into the float when the OS is 1.4 billion shares and at least 600 million of them have only been authorized and issued for a few months and are still restricted shares?
You claim 17 MDHI P&D’s but 15 of the 17 times there was a promotion, the promo company was not compensated. That generally means that the promo company bought shares, pumped the stock on its own and then sold their shares. Also, 7 of the 17 MDHI pumps were done at one time between 10-15-12 and 10-19-12 during which time so it would really be only one extended incident. During this time there was no appreciable increase in trading volume and no appreciable decrease in share price. This includes one of the 2 times a promo company received compensation.
The 9-10-12 “pump” produced a 70% reduction in MDHI trading volume when compared to the previous day and no appreciable decrease in share price. The 7-12-12 “pump” produced a 30% reduction in MDHI trading volume and an increase in the MDHI share price.
For MDHI to have dumped 1 billion shares into the float it would have had to have enough shares to do so—this was already addressed. Second, it takes more than a few million shares changing hands at a time—it takes tens of millions of shares minimum to change hands on a daily basis during the dump. Third, there is a distinct pattern of PAID promotion and corresponding PR’s (often filled with lies and half-truths), that produce a significant increase in the daily share volume driven by the new shares in the float and a corresponding significant decrease in the share price as the new shares soak up all the additional demand for the shares.
The only example you have listed for MDHI that really shows the traits of a pump and dump was on 3-8-2010 combined with the 3-10-2010 event. In this case, the share volume for MDHI went from consistently between 5 and 10 thousand shares per day and a PPS for MDHI consistently between .2 and .25 to an initial 20 mil shares while the PPS fell below .10. MDHI’s volume stayed over 10 mil shares per day for days and MDHI’s PPS eventually fell to below .02. That was a pump and dump. One time---more than three years ago.
I am bothered that there has even been one P&D in MDHI’s past because I believe that a tiger can’t change its stripes but it does not add up to the consistent, repeated P&D history you claim MDHI has. If you would like to see what that actually looks like I will give you a stock to review that pumps and dumps every 3-4 weeks. Their volume hits hundreds of millions of shares a day from an average of a few million a day and the PPS almost always gets cut in half.
According to pumpanddumps.com, which lists thousands of P&D's on their web site and all the details of each P&D by each company and is updated daily, MDHI has never engaged in the practice of a pump and dump. Their listings and stats go back more than 2 years.
Does this include the shares being sold on the German Exchange?
I have no doubt there will be a reverse split by FITX.. It is a standard P&D practice--once the OS gets too high they have to get rid of the shares somehow so they can lay low for awhile and then start to print new shares again.
Have you watched what happens to a company's PPS when they announce a reverse split? How about after the split occurs?
As for FINRA, it takes a lot for them to take action and by the time they do, the people dumping the shares are rich on our money. It usually takes one of the P&D crusaders filing a lawsuit against the company and the management to get them involved because they can't turn a blind eye once that happens. However, it is usually too late for most investors.
You can't have it both ways. Either they are producing medical marijuana products in which case they are violating federal law, or they are just selling their formula for another company to adjust in order to enter the medical marijuana field in which case FITX is not in the medical marijuana business itself.
See Beach Bum's brownie analogy.
Unfortunately, due to the amount of share that are in the open market, FITX is trading at what it is worth.
Everybody--even the people who have put mad cash in their accounts by the massive dumping that occurs every 3-4 weeks--would be better off if FITX held the OS and float down so the stock price went up.
This does not even address the legality of P&D's and the potential FINRA action against FITX that can happen.
The money I put into this to company is minimal so at least for now I am holding but the way this company's management is throwing away such great potential for quick personal profit offends me.
As the specifics of the licensing were pointed out to me, I have accepted the idea that keeps the illegalities at least in the grey areas but to use your example, you are not in the medical marijuana business, you are still just selling brownies.
And yes, everything I read about the products indicate they are first rate. Shame FITX is only trying to sell stock for individual that have been compensated in stock so they can cash out rather than building the value of the stock so everybody makes money.
I can accept that interpretation but then they are not really in the medical marijuana business are they. FITX is just in the hemp business. One way or the other they are telling the shareholders lies to support the repeated pump and dumps.
I got the information second hand right here when it was quoted by SIObserver directly from the facebook page.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=88971446
FITX said they would not be violating any FEDERAL LAWS---that was a lie.
That's my whole point. IT was back when FITX made the statement but many disagreed with me.
FITX told a blatant lie to cover up their little white lie about the hemp products being medical marijuana.
Remember when FITX claimed their hemp products were medical marijuana? Remember they claimed that in the states where medical marijuana is legal they would be producing the same products with pot instead of hemp without violating any federal laws?
Look what happened in Seattle recently.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/07/24/2693689/dea-raiding-marijuana-dispensaries.html
Anyone still buying the lies?
Thanks. Were you asking about the listing on the German market?
Thanks anyway. I guess I will call if I have to.
ceo1--You wouldn't happen to have an e-mail address would you? I only see addresses for Tiffany and Joel up above. If I can e-mail I don't have to account for the time difference.
If it is a third party that listed it as in the article posted yesterday that would be good to know Otherwise it is additional legitimate shares available to the public which, to me at least, is no different than dilution here.
Has anyone who contacted Israel in the past reached out to ask about the listing on the German stock exchange?
Well, at least they claim they are only diluting 10 mil shares at a time. not 200 mil like a lot of P&D's/
Sorry, double post
After reading that I guess it is possible that SAFC is actually one of the few companies where rampant naked short selling is what's driving the price down and the short sellers are looking to hide the shares over there.
If that is what is is, I hope they get caught quickly. Similar results to that other company would be nice.
I guess we have learned that Pumpanddumps.com doesn't catch every one. It's a good lesson. Next time SAFC or any other penny stock you have money in acts like a P&D is going on, consider it a strong possibility even is it hasn't shown up in their list.
hopefully still just profit takers selling off so it can run when they are done.
Still all clear at pump and dumps.com.
All in all wishing I had bought more at .002.but I proably wouldn't have held all those super cheepies through the whole day yesterday if I had.
Not what I was hoping to see to start the day out.
Yup...because almost 500 million shares of FITX were shorted over the last 2 days.
Or maybe its just another Pump and Dump by FITX management to line their pockets with our cash while they bury the company.
Shareholders here don't need to worry about a PPS of .10, .01, .001 or .0001. We have to worry about a FINRA halt and the grey markets.
Questioning specifics about a stock is not bashing it. That is why most of us are at a message board about that stock--to ask questions, give our opinions and get other's opinions back. Frogger is asking legitimate questions in an attempt to educate himself. That is very different from bashing.
Nothing Frogger has asked is out about SAFC of line.
Start reading from my original post today where I mentioned it is not a P&D this time. The rest of the conversation was a back and forth between posters and not specifically about this run being a P&D because--at least so far---it isn't one. My last comment was in response someone else saying that not all P&Ds are bad.
You need to step up your DD. SAFC was a repeat P&D offender with a total of 4 pump and dumps beginning on November 8th with a PPS of .22. Two days ago the PPS was .0022.
A 100,000 share purchase made before the P&Ds started went from a value of $22,000.00 in November to $220.00 on Monday. I am thrilled that SAFC is not using this practice now but as they say "a tiger doesn't change its stripes" so we all need to be careful with how this proceeds.
P&D's are always a bad thing. They drive up volume so privately owned shares can be dumped into the market which drives the price down. The shareholders lose, the company gains nothing and usually looses because the PPS drops and the private individual line their pockets with ill gotten gains and the shares added to the float make moving the PPS in a positive direction more difficult.
There is a reason it is supposedly illegal and the old P&D's are one of the factors that kept me out of SAFC for a long time. I guess I should be happy because even though it has been trading below my purchase price until the last few days, I am one of the lucky ones since all my shares are currently green.
When SAFC started their repeated P&D campaign the pps was 0.22. After the last on in april the PPS had steadily fallen to less than 0.01. THe drop continued until this mini rally--that we all hope continues into a full fledged run--bottoming out at a PPS of .0019. Many of the longs here are longs because they got stuck with shares they could not sell and many are still buying to "average down" off their initial purchases.
For another example, look at FITX. It is a classic repeat P&D running every 3-4 weeks that has driven the PPS from a high of .0332 just before the campaign started to a low today of .0016. During that time beginning last September the insiders have dumped probably close to 1 bil shares into the market. Not one penny of those bil shares makes it to the company unless someone buys more shares at a par value of 0.001 to dump into the market at fair market price.