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hey Sam, if that company, McKool Smith is going to be helping fight for the shareholders (part of the equity committee), it looks like they are one of the top places for them. Here is just a recent win they have under their belts. You will note its against Apple and they already won against Microsoft too
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mckool-smith-secures-368-million-183000806.html
So keep on waiting my brother and hopefully you will get most, if not all your money back, or at least get your shares back when they emerge. I would think you would get "something" with a big company like this
**UPDATE**
looks like they are representing Counsel for CompassPoint Partners, L.P., Frank Williams, and Eric Wagoner (collectively, the "Interested Shareholders")
Anytime Sam.
I'm hoping they will be able to do something.
Here is something else you can pass on:
http://chapter11cases.com/patriot-coal-corp-chapter-11-cases-to-be-transferred-to-st-louis-bankruptcy-court-the-united-states-bankruptcy-court-for-the-eastern-district-of-missouri/
You will see it has the 61 page report on it. I'm almost done going through all of it.
I noticed that there is an attorney Michael Carney from McKool Smith law firm. The doc says they are the attorneys for certain interested shareholders. I'm very interested to know what that means and all that. Not sure if they could be for the Equity Committee we are waiting on via Dec 11th or what.
I found Michael's info on their web site and emailed him. I know its probably pointless, but I figure it's worth a shot and better than doing nothing at all. If he replies at all, I will share with you.
p.s. you will notice one of the top owners of shares/value price is former CEO, Engelhardt (Irl F)
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/PCXCQ/tab/8
Will be interested to keep following him and see if he keeps selling all of the shares, OR if he keeps holding them. Not sure if that is a telling sign or not
wow...just wow, can't believe it just keeps getting lower and lower. Figured with the venue decision it would have done much more. It looked like it was starting to go in the right direction and then it looks like a huge sell off again to bring it back down. Getting down to the low again.
where's the love?
Me too. They already delayed the EC by 2 months, and hope they won't delay it further since that still over 2 weeks away. Been waiting on some good news to help, but keeps stalling. Anything to really help this keep going up is what I really want. oh well, must keep waiting it out and hope for best. Was looking to get out by end of December or sometime in January. Doesn't appear to happen for awhile.
Although if waiting a couple of more months helps get this up close to $1 (yeah, I'm a big wisher) then its worth it
Yup, I agree. Considering the fact that is where their HQ is located, and the city/state its a major location. I "think" it still favors the company in sense that is where the HQ is, but I also feel its still a middle ground area, since NY would have been a major advantage for the company.
Fingers crossed for the EC on Dec 11th to help this further along.
I guess this isn't bad news. It won't stay in NY, but it won't go to WV either. Looks like judge is smart and put it in the middle ground area. I think it's actually a smart move. At least it moved it out of the negative that it was in this morning:
N.Y. Judge Moves Patriot Coal Bankruptcy Case to St. Louis
BY Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
— 1:42 PM ET 11/27/2012
A bankruptcy judge on Tuesday moved Patriot Coal Corp.'s (PCXCQ) bankruptcy case to St. Louis from New York, saying she couldn't look past the company's creation of New York-based entities just before its July bankruptcy filing.
Judge Shelley C. Chapman of U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan sided with a mine workers' union that argued Patriot abused bankruptcy "venue" rules by creating those two entities, but disagreed that the case should be moved to West Virginia, where many of those mine workers are employed. The judge said that among other things, West Virginia would be inconvenient for many parties involved in the case. She instead chose St. Louis, where Patriot has its headquarters.
"Transferring these cases to the Eastern District of Missouri will serve the interest of justice and, as among venue choices other than this District, best serve the convenience of the parties," Judge Chapman wrote. The professionals working on the case predominantly reside in the New York area, and Patriot had argued that the costs of moving the case could be burdensome.
The judge's decision seemed more in line with arguments made by a federal bankruptcy watchdog, U.S. trustee Tracy Hope Davis. The trustee had argued that Patriot's creation of two new businesses right before its bankruptcy filing was a clear attempt to circumvent the bankruptcy code, but didn't take a position on where the case should be moved. Judge Chapman did.
"The Debtors created facts in order to satisfy the statute, as opposed to taking advantage of the facts as they existed," Judge Chapman said in her 61- page ruling, issued two and a half months after a three-day hearing on whether the case should be moved. The hearing was simulcast in courthouses in both West Virginia and St. Louis, and was a hot topic of conversation among bankruptcy professionals in New York whether they were involved with the case or not.
A Patriot spokesman had no immediate comment.
The Bankruptcy Code's venue rules allow a company to file in either its primary place of business or where its affiliates file for bankruptcy. The company and its main lenders had all argued that the case should remain in New York, and many observers have called the decision an important one for the future of bankruptcy venue. A majority of large companies file bankruptcy in New York and Delaware.
Patriot and 98 of its affiliates filed for Chapter 11 protection in July, victims of widespread problems in the coal industry.
The company was formed in 2007 from assets split from top U.S. coal-mining company Peabody Energy Corp (BTU). Patriot's mines are concentrated in central Appalachia, a region plagued by high costs after more than a century of mining there depleted much of the easy-to-access coal.
(Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review covers news about distressed companies and those under bankruptcy protection. Go to http://dbr.dowjones.com)
Write to Joseph Checkler at joseph.checkler@dowjones.com. Follow him on Twitter at @JoeCheckler
Subscribe to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com?mod=djnwires
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
11-27-12 1342ET
Copyright (c) 2012 Dow Jones & Company, Inc
N.Y. Judge Moves Patriot Coal Bankruptcy Case to St. Louis
BY Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
— 1:42 PM ET 11/27/2012
A bankruptcy judge on Tuesday moved Patriot Coal Corp.'s (PCXCQ) bankruptcy case to St. Louis from New York, saying she couldn't look past the company's creation of New York-based entities just before its July bankruptcy filing.
Judge Shelley C. Chapman of U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan sided with a mine workers' union that argued Patriot abused bankruptcy "venue" rules by creating those two entities, but disagreed that the case should be moved to West Virginia, where many of those mine workers are employed. The judge said that among other things, West Virginia would be inconvenient for many parties involved in the case. She instead chose St. Louis, where Patriot has its headquarters.
"Transferring these cases to the Eastern District of Missouri will serve the interest of justice and, as among venue choices other than this District, best serve the convenience of the parties," Judge Chapman wrote. The professionals working on the case predominantly reside in the New York area, and Patriot had argued that the costs of moving the case could be burdensome.
The judge's decision seemed more in line with arguments made by a federal bankruptcy watchdog, U.S. trustee Tracy Hope Davis. The trustee had argued that Patriot's creation of two new businesses right before its bankruptcy filing was a clear attempt to circumvent the bankruptcy code, but didn't take a position on where the case should be moved. Judge Chapman did.
"The Debtors created facts in order to satisfy the statute, as opposed to taking advantage of the facts as they existed," Judge Chapman said in her 61- page ruling, issued two and a half months after a three-day hearing on whether the case should be moved. The hearing was simulcast in courthouses in both West Virginia and St. Louis, and was a hot topic of conversation among bankruptcy professionals in New York whether they were involved with the case or not.
A Patriot spokesman had no immediate comment.
The Bankruptcy Code's venue rules allow a company to file in either its primary place of business or where its affiliates file for bankruptcy. The company and its main lenders had all argued that the case should remain in New York, and many observers have called the decision an important one for the future of bankruptcy venue. A majority of large companies file bankruptcy in New York and Delaware.
Patriot and 98 of its affiliates filed for Chapter 11 protection in July, victims of widespread problems in the coal industry.
The company was formed in 2007 from assets split from top U.S. coal-mining company Peabody Energy Corp (BTU). Patriot's mines are concentrated in central Appalachia, a region plagued by high costs after more than a century of mining there depleted much of the easy-to-access coal.
(Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review covers news about distressed companies and those under bankruptcy protection. Go to http://dbr.dowjones.com)
Write to Joseph Checkler at joseph.checkler@dowjones.com. Follow him on Twitter at @JoeCheckler
Subscribe to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com?mod=djnwires
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
11-27-12 1342ET
Copyright (c) 2012 Dow Jones & Company, Inc
Hah nope. That's why I wish I had more to drop my avg down. That's ok. Will be fine hopefully in next couple of months
To avg down. Since mine is so high as it is. You thinking that's not a good idea? It's only 10 bucks :)
put in another small order of pcx. Only have a few bucks, but this thing is so low I couldn't resist. I actually wish I had more money to buy more.
would be doing a lot better if people stop freaking over the fiscal cliff talks and we get some good news.
oh well. Should get some news soon, maybe not till sometime in December, but should be soon.
sounds good, much appreciated Sam!
I see some others that have high avg prices as well. citibank has an avg of over $26 per share. Will be interesting to see what they all do
Oh yes I agree. I have a feeling it won't mean anything but it wouldn't hurt. Thanks for contacting them Sam!
yes, I agree. I've been doing some digging here and there, but I can't find anything "recent" that shows thats still in his portfolio. Last updated info I found was 2009 (another article and site). But nothing more recent. The only thing I can think of is because the current 2.4 million shares (valued at $56 million when he bought) is actually NOT one of his top investments. Most of what I found is top 10 or top 20+ companies he's invested in and PCX is one of his LOWER of his investments. Because it's under $100 million, they haven't been listing those. So it's tough to find much on it.
Either way it is still very interesting WHY they haven't sold it out and what they are planning on doing. Like you also said, it is very interesting to note that no news is hit on this. You would think Bill Gates losing 56 million (valued ONLY at $264k, ouch!) Imagine that! $56 million is now worth only 264k.
only thing I can think of is it's a tax write off, or he has something up his sleeve. From the looks of it, he is the largest privately owned share holder on record. If that is the case, you would think something is going to happen. He is either going to just accept this as a write off, OR he has some knowledge that he will get his shares back in the company when it emerges. Those are big guesses and just speculation at this point.
I'm trying to find a way to contact the company. I think I see a phone number to call and I may give them a call on Monday or Tuesday to see if they can provide any feedback. I'm sure they won't have any comment on it.
Sam, if you can talk to your lawyer place you have filed with and bring this to their attention and see what they say/think about it. Perhaps they can contact them as well and find out what they are planning on doing. Maybe they will have their own lawyers doing their own lawsuit.
I know I'm just "fishing" for whatever right now, but its better than sitting here and doing nothing while the stock does jack crap
hope you and everyone else had a safe and good thanksgiving!
Hey Ernie! check out my latest post. What do you think?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=81735068
if you think i'm wrong that it's another company, please let correct me. I couldn't see the whole name.
Hope you and your family have a great and safe thanksgiving!
-Frank
Looks like the latest is now only 7.1 million shares owned:
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/PCXCQ/tab/8
I did some searches for the Cascade company. I don't see the whole name, but if I do a general search for it, I see the top company is "Cascade Investment"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment
Take a look at who controls it. That's right, Bill Gates.
So if, and this is a BIG IF, that is true, then you begin to wonder WHY he is still holding out and hasn't sold. I'm assuming its due to the fact that he would sell for a massive loss. Or, he is using to write it off as a big loss. OR, he is going to be one of the big places to sue to get the money back.
Another idea is to find a way to keep the shares into the new company. I would think that IF (once again, a big IF) PCX knows Bill Gates is one of these large share holders, they don't want to do anything to piss him off and will find a way to get his money back in some way or fashion, especially if they want him to invest with them in the future.
if anyone knows the correct company that owns those shares, please correct me.
**UPDATE**
http://stockmanmarc.blogspot.com/2008/11/bill-gates-value-investor.html
I know that article is old, but you can see he is the holder and now it makes sense. He has them since 2008 and that's about right with that current price/value of 56 million for only 2.4 million shares.
So that is interesting as to why he and his company is still holding out on it, even during BK
Indeed. I may be a young punk (sort of) at 35, but I was raised to respect. I loved watching John Wayne movies with my dad when I was younger. I think I learned that respect from those movies, as well as many other movies, parents, etc.
I know what others are saying on the board. I get their point. This isn't "america" anymore in the sense that they don't care about anyone but themselves. I have accepted that. BUT, at the same time, you would "think" that with a name of "Patriot Coal", something that is supposed to represent America, apple pie, respect, freedom, values, etc, would be able to back itself up with it.
I have accepted that they will do whatever they can to screw over the share holders. Its nothing personal, they just want to take that money to make sure the company lives on. But, like you said, the "right" thing to do is, give shares into the NEW Patriot Coal company to those who were "Patriotic" to own in the OLD Patriot Coal. You had faith in our company, stuck with us through the thick and thin, and never gave up. You are rewarded for your loyalty by receiving shares in the new stock.
I won't even say "This only happens in a perfect world" because THIS SHOULD happen if they truly are a "man of their word". Kind of ironic to use a name of "patriot" and be the opposite.
Yes, yes, I know, they need money to get out of BK. Share holders are last on the list, yada yada.
I guess it is wrong to have that faith in companies, and people. It looks like our country is going that direction.
I'm still with you, Sam. I hope they do the right thing. If they don't, I hope they at least have the decency to pay those who were loyal and reward them. It unlikely, but we will have to wait and see. Long road still, got plenty ways to go.
Equity committee is supposed to be Dec 11th. I think in January they may do their first POR. I "think" they have until March to actually submit their first POR. With the EQ in place and lawsuits, hopefully the first POR will have some good info on it. From others I have talk to, they have said plan on the first POR to be very bad and to say there will be nothing for share holders, etc. This is where the EQ and lawsuits come into play to fight for something for them.
Someone want to contact the company and tell them to do a buyout of all current share holders on record as of right now and get lucky with a cheap payout? haha! Doesn't hurt to try right?
good question on the tutes...that's tough to know and figure out. They "could" still be holding. OR that the cascade company IS the tutes. I'm not really familiar with them to be honest and how they are listed on this list.
We have a long ways to go still, so having less shares own may be good now, but there could be a lot more owned down the road. Would definitely be good to have a BK expert or someone who's seen this before be able to comment/share their thoughts on this.
We sat here and thought the 500 million in extra equity they had, which is dwindling down, would be helping towards the share holders. But, we know that we are LAST on the list. Debtors and creditors get theirs first. Of course, that 500 million was coming out to be over $5 a share. That is, IF all shares were owned by someone. I think its down to 400 million or less now. Think they have losses, plus lawyer feeds, etc. This still has another 6 months to a year, or even longer before they emerge.
Don't think they will settle with share holders until that point anyways. Would be nice to have them just do away with it now and pay them all off. They would be doing themselves a huge favor if they did it with only 8.1 million shares held as appose to the almost 50 million that it was a month or so ago. Hell, if they did 100 million towards current holders, that's over $10 a share. We know that won't happen, but it would probably stop all the lawsuits. I'm assuming if anyone is going to be part of the lawsuits, they can't sell until the lawsuit is over with. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
It's tough to figure out, got a long road ahead of us. I've already put in a GTC order in for my remaining shares. The price I set it won't be filled for a long time (I set it to $2 a share). If may never be filled actually, but I put it in anyways in case something happens and I'm not around to see it and I missed it. For all we know, when the equity committee is formed in Dec, this can pop all the way to $5 or higher. haha, I know, keep dreaming!!
actually, the $56,433,052 doesn't mean they bought shares valued at .11 cents. It just means that's how much they have in the company. If you take the 56 million and divide it by the 2.4 million shares, then that means they have an avg share price of over $23 a share.
This company may have been invested for many years and got stuck at that high share price years ago. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking.
This value, over the months that I've been watching, never changes. No matter what the share price is, that value has always been the $56 million. So I'm assuming they owned it for a long time and never sold out. They could be one of the big places doing a lawsuit, or going to form that committee on Dec 11th. That equity committee will be a huge step towards defense of the share holders
ah well crap, I hope they are able to recover then and it's not that bad.
whenever you have a chance, keep me posted. I'm definitely interested in hearing what they have to say and what they think. From the sound of it, this happens all the time with law suits against companies that go into BK and make promises they go back on. They typically have a good and general idea how they will pan out, or at least can tell you how they work out. Some cases they should be able to determine how long it will take for this to take and when they can expect something. My guess is maybe 6 months to a year from now. who knows though.
Agreed, that would be my opinion. But, my opinion doesn't mean crap. It appears both of ours doesn't.
I know this still has a long road ahead of it with the BK process. So who knows what will happen in the long run and how long it will take for them to figure it out.
By then, we could be back up to a large amount of shares held.
not sure if the law firm you are working with can provide any feedback with this.
Did they say how long that will take for those law suits? any court dates? Any feedback from what they know? Or is it all still in the beginning stages and they have to wait till the end?
Agreed. Yeah I'm not sure either. I've seen some high volume here and there, especially AFTER the election. That is what helped get it to the area it is now. It was hanging around the .17 to .18 area for a couple of weeks. After the election it kept dropping and dropping. I know it's a BK stock, but it did have some stability around that area.
I didn't see any large volume, unless this was sold in some other way that we missed. No clue really.
I'm not sure if this will help any cases, or make it worse. You would think that if only 8 to 9 million shares out of the 89 million out there, those are only a few and should be worth a lot more. If they did a decision on what it's worth to those current share holders, you would think they would say "ok, we'll settle all outstanding shares at $1 to $2 a share and that is valued at 9 to 18 million total". I guess that is better than having 50 million shares being owned and they have to pay 50 to 100 million. who knows.
Maybe that only a small amount of shares also means they may be "nice" and say "we won't reissue new shares" or say "we will give those current share holders stock in the new shares".
I know it's all "dreaming", but now its kind of odd that not many shares are owned anymore. Yeah its over 8 million, but it was just 50 million not too long ago.
anyone have any opinions/takes on what this?
very interesting
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/PCXCQ/tab/8
It has gone from ranging 43 to 46% shares owned down to only 7%
I noticed the institutions have also decreased a lot as well.
I remembered that the USA was about 46 to 49% owned in the region area...now it's only 6.6%.
sellers vs buyers is way off and big difference now.
total number of shares owned is down to only 8.1 million. Looks like the largest value of shares owned is Cascade.
Looks like this went to hell in a hand basket after Obama won again.
Not sure if this is good or bad the way it is. I know nothing is good with a BK, but this just went way down
recent 8k was posted for the monthly report:
http://xml.10kwizard.com/filing_raw.php?repo=tenk&ipage=8568391
ok pcx, you can stop this crap now.
Thanks for sharing, Sam. I really hope they are able to help you and the others out. I know a lot of people give you crap for believing in honesty, and albeit true that this is not a place for it, I also believe someone has to be an honest person out there. I really hope that this will be one of the cases.
I really hope that they will do the right thing and keep the stock. We all understand and know why if they choose to get rid of the old and go with the new. But that would go against their word that they said in the first place. Trust is definitely out the door at this point.
One way or another, I hope you and others that were holding pre-BK get most, if not all your money back.
I would prefer for them to keep it. It would be nice to stick with them after BK. That would also be a good indicator they will keep their word on protecting share holders. It may not be worth much post BK, but it will give it a chance to climb back out of the hole and to not only get you your money back, but perhaps make money down the road
I'm pulling for ya!
welcome back, Sam!
What did the law firm say that will be going on for you? They have any good info for you and be able to say they will be able to get something back for you? Or just the typical "we are going to do the best we can"?
Hope it works out for you brother
thanks, definitely reassuring for PCXCQ. I'm in it low, but not as low as I wish I was. Looks like it will take awhile, so I'm just going to keep waiting. As for MDBX, you are correct, even medbox themselves say they are worth 1 to 3 a share and have been kind enough to try to voice to others to not buy as someone is playing this some how.
no, it WAS at over $200 a share. It closed at $20 today. Look at the history of the company and you'll see
you ever get in AONEQ? It looks like they may not even need to be in BK status. Does it look like they may cancel it?
If so, that is very low. I may be tempted to sell out of PCX and jump in there if that thing has a chance to climb back up to $1 or even $2. What you think?
Will do and good looking out. They are every where. I typically like to look at so many things when doing that.
you can get over excited on some, but it appears you are the top winner on most of the picks, as well as some of the good DD and posts.
I saw the one guy talk about PURA. I checked out some of it and it appears to be a scam (aren't most of them?). But it looks like it may be dropping way more soon.
But that's just one of those things, if you don't feel comfortable about it, then don't do it.
I'm starting to get excited to get back into it...just have to keep on waiting for pcx to get back! waiting is killing me!
it will be worth it though. got plenty of time to make millions, right?
Well thank you for sharing! I will keep watching the boards and see what others have been picking and see how they play out.
I will comment on the board if I see anything out there that might be a good play for others to play off of. Right now, everything I've been watching is just hanging around, not doing much of anything. some are also higher priced as this seem to be penny or sub penny plays.
wow...thanks Ernie! I will add this to my list and start to watch and see how it works and plays. I'm hoping by end of this year, start of next year when I can get out on top of PCX, I can start to look at these and see if it will help me get an early retirement and enjoy time with my 10 month old son!
haha I wish! In all reality, I know I won't be able to make millions, but if I can make some money, that will be huge and a good future, that's for sure!
thanks again!
has some of these plays really pan out really well? Or have you played many?
do you just go in a few hundred bucks on some? or do you go higher/lower? I know with pennies it can be risky
hahaha no doubt Ernie! I would have been full blown dying with that. Worse part is, trying to find a BUYER at that price to even sell it!
i love to learn, but this is crazy and stressful!
my hat's off to you. wish we had more CEO/founders like you. I'm currently stuck and screwed in another. I wish they were good enough to keep us posted on everything like this, and make a statement that they will protect the share holders. I understand they have to pay the debtors first, but still. We took a chance with a legit NYSE company and we got caught.
I'm in PCXCQ (formally PCX) which is going through BK process. Yeah, it's coal so not going to be going very well.
Anyways, I just wanted to pass on how cool it is you take time to go this far for others. This is pretty much unheard of.
nothing but luck and love to all those in this stock (MDBX) and any other!
cheers!
Hey brother Sam! Here is a company that has gone whacky! They were normally around $3 range, and got played in Sept to go down to less than .03. Then it corrected itself.
Insanely, over the past few days, it shot to over $200 a share!! good lord!
Here you have a CEO/founder actually on IHUB answering peoples questions and concerns and makes this statement
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=81586416
So good news is, someone out there is actually a stand up person for the company. They do exist! The "medbox" is the company and person on IHUB that responds to everyone that screwed over. Read over all the comments, its very interesting.
now pcx on the other hand....well we all know the story on that.
here's to "hope".
nothing but love and luck to all those still holding, especially pre-BK!!
oh yes, fully agreed. That's why I think it was interesting to see the founder come on the board and actually tell people to NOT buy and it should correct itself. Someone posted the inflation numbers of it and how it got out of hand and the founder himself said that none of his employees will be selling their shares.
I'm speechless. this may be something to look into at some point no doubt. for now, it's definitely way over priced.
yeah, go through all of the comments/replies. It's very interesting to see the comments and replies on the board. People are frantic and panicking and getting caught. He is trying to help and even gives out their contact information.
even buying a few at $3 to $5 and selling above $200 would have been huge. if you tried to buy too much, would have been in trouble though.
this is some insane stuff. when can this happen with pcx? haha!
that sounds about right.
what i find interested is this comment directly from the founder:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=81441065
no doubt. It looks like they even have their own people on here trying to answer for it and calm people down. Never seen that before. wish we had someone for PCX like this, haha
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/Profile.aspx?user=339401
wow, this one is interesting...
check out MDBX. Was almost .03 in September and within the past couple of weeks shot up to over $200. good lord!
it's taking a huge give, but still above $10. wow
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-lawmakers-hold-constructive-talks-taxes-deficit-174256300--politics.html
Hopefully this will help out a lot more. A lot of stuff I was watching today that was in the toilet, has gone back up. Either at even (with what it opened/closed at yesterday) or is up a little bit