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Yep, human nature I guess. People won't admit it but they don't know how to deal with negativity. When their account shows red, they get scared, start complaining and sell. Then blame others for their loss. Not fair but what can you do. People will never learn.
Hornice, I'm sure that day will come. GLTU.
Agreed, this thing could run very nicely. The fact is, there are no dilutive market makers on the ask. Our V friends are gone. This allows for buying freely without the fear of heavy dilution.
Nice. They are getting more and more desperate. They are running numbers now to see what they can do. They may decide to let it play out for a time due to the fear of the price taking off increasing the average which would make very sell they made down here a loss.
I will PM you but I also would come on the board publicly and proclaim ones such as yourself as correct while I made an error in judgement. Both believe we are correct. We will see.
If I wasnt so red in my account, I would think the 100 share attempts to scare people would be funny. Unfortunately some novice traders will fall for the ploys. I am happy that most don't though.
It is still against the law either way. And if their were proven lies here, they would still be shut down. But you already knew that.
If you say so. I guess the part where you said let people make up their minds was BS since you are posting facts here. You are posting your opinion. We are done talking as you have the right to do so. GL
Again, tell me the lies... There haven't been any. Some speculate misleading statements. I still disagree.
Agreed. I would be stupid to blindly invest and assume all is well. Constant DD is required. As with anything, a plan is only as good as the start and good leaders and great men are able to prepare for unexpected changes which would make previous sections which were once correct now incorrect. We're on the same page D.
Logical statement CH. refreshing and gives me hope for the human race.
Ok then. Fact remains. AS don't exist solely because they want to dump shares at this price.
Hornice, we can be civil here. I can tel, from your previous posts that you're not happy but you can also be logical. Your answers to some of the more pissed off and still holding people come off wrong because you're getting defensive. Keep in mind, their answers are stemming from them being defensive of your posts. Nothing pisses people off more than being down and have an ex shareholder post negatives. Opinions are one thing. Facts are another. It is your opinion that this will go no bid. But really, the facts don't support that. The renegotiated terms basically squash that right off the bat. Back down a little and let this play out. It's not right with some of the things you are saying. Just take a step back and look at it from people who believe in what is going on with the company. If you're going to post the negative, make it fair and balanced. Too much speculation because your angry doesn't seem fair to me.
Have you ever owned or run a business? My assumption is that you haven't. I can speculate this because had you, you would know that things come up, changes made, things added deleted, relying on others to make it happen, etc. you want to make it seem like he is trying to take advantage of you over a website. Something that adds no value to the company. If it were a ploy, he would have just completed it because it makes people feel good but brings no value. This is a ridiculous conversation.
You have a lot to learn...
I agree. If that takes place then we should cut our losses. I don't believe that will happen and frankly, I really don't think you believe that will happen.
Well, it is a speculative play isn't it. Hell, the company is a speculative company. Why did everyone who invested here do so? But it is only because some have lost due to selling that it is now a scam. Sit back and wait. We will see if I have some apologizing to the board to do for speaking positive here or you do. I know I will be man enough to do so if wrong.
So he's a liar because you know that he won't? You confuse me...
Again, it is still speculation that they will dump these shares in the future. I suppose all companies with shares remaining in their AS count will max it out without question? That is still speculation.
Yes, it does say restricted though. Some have obviously, at least at this point, decided to keep it that way. Some have gotten opinion letters as is their right.
What promise did he break?
Speculation. The AS exists not because they want to go through them but because they are required to have those shares available if things go wrong. That remains to be seen and a pissed off ex shareholder who lost because he sold should not speculate based on his personal feelings of loss. Facts are want it needed here. You don't have facts that they are dumping 7 billion shares here. If you were to use logic, do you believe that the current share price warrants such a dumping of shares? If you answer yes to that, there is just no talking to you.
Wow, Thursday at 1:00 and you already want to hang him. Seems fair. I wonder if you told your boss that you would get something done by Friday and then he showed up pissed at you on Wednesday that you would just say, "oh, that's ok"? Have a little patience. And let me add, that sometimes, things come preventing the release of information. That is life. To expect anything differently would be ridiculous. I wonder if every plan you made worked out exactly as you wanted it to. Perhaps small adjustments had to be made to get the desired end result.
Well, yeah. In some of my research on these note holders, some are run by the same people. One of the guys is a land owner of like 74% of the mining land in Arizona. Others are people who come from mining families and own multiple companies within the mining industry such as Anaconda and searchlight. They held for 3 years. Would you or anyone else do that? It would be difficult. They do deserve some liquidity here as they gave up ownership of mines with the idea of getting some small profit interests and smelter royalties. They have waited. I don't like how they have sold but I do understand the opinion letters. The only reason others don't is because the shares were restricted and now they are trading. If I were a securities lawyer and now two years after the extension, my opinion would be the same. They should be able to convert if they choose to. Do I think they would want to do so again in the short term. I truly do not. Time will tell.
We can agree on your entire post. Hence, the deal I made to publicly state if I was wrong and in asking you to do the same. Our words either hurt or help investors. Whether we like it or not, there is a responsibility we take on by posting here. If people make a decision to buy/sell based on our comments, that was their choice to do so but at the same time, we have to be aware that we could be wrong and would have hurt others. No worries though if correct. Unfortunately, we are far apart on our beliefs here but I can agree with what you state in this post.
Diversified, they were restricted but the mill isn't running here. You must keep in mind that they have held the debt for over three years. Rule 144 would have been satisfied easily. Just because they agreed to extend until 2014 doesn't mean they couldn't get an opinion letter to make the shares free trading. Also keep in mind when this occurred. The average share price was at .0003 for the five days leading up to November 8th. They were probably seeing that and thought hell, if it goes down to .0001, what good would it do to wait until 2014. They have been watching it fall the entire time they have held. As for the amount of shares held, yes, that is a problem. But the solution lies with both them and us. They don't want to sell too many at .0002 because of the major risk of selling below the average. We must just deal with it. This is a glass half full situation IMO. It should be for any large shareholder such as yourself.
The desperation is extremely obvious. They know how much the have sold at 2 and 3. They also know that the average is currently sitting above that probably around 5 or 6 they need to bring that average down because all of those sells at 2 and 3 are major loses at that point. Should get really interesting. Retail seems to be catching on to the opportunities here.
.0001 is pure speculation as is .001. Both should be ignored for the short term as in December. Why? Dent holders would definitely be selling below their average at that point so they won't be taking it down there. If retail does it, that is a whole other thing but I think that the people who would sell have sold and most others have decided to hold. As for the .001, since the debt holders are still selling, not heavily at .002 because of the risk of selling below the average, but still selling in general, we won't reach that price in December unless the CEO has a plan to blow these debt holders out of the water with major news. That remains to be seen. So again, talk about either price point is misleading and speculative at best and outright lies at worst.
I can't speak for anyone else but my admittance of wrong had nothing to do with the share price. It has to do with what is accomplished with the opportunities given. If this turns out to be the best for the company as far as eliminating debt, it will be worth it. Time will tell. Personally, I am down substantially but I have no loss until I sell. I will not sell down here to help these debt holders lower the average.
You do make a good point, some of those debt holders are merely miner families with more than likely very little knowledge of the market. They may have put this task on a more market educated seller such as the MM themselves. Hard to say and would be pure speculation as we will never know.
Seems to me that the debt holders are starting to get a little desperate they used to sell a lot more 10k share blocks on the bid. They have since changed that 100 share blocks. They don't want to sell more than they have to. After all, they are just trying to induce selling from retail so they don't take the risk of selling below their average.
Osprey eye, where do you stand here?
Well, we can surmise that these debt holders are reading posts here. Less than 10 minutes after my last post, they sell some in the 2s to try to induce fear for retail to sell in the 2s. Two 5 million block sells went through within a couple seconds. Don't help them save money here by selling in the 2s to help their average. You must realize that we traded in the .0009-001 range at the beginning of the month and they need these 2s to hit in order to make up for their sells up there to bring the average down. They run a much larger risk by selling in the 2s because they risk losing money by selling below the end result average. Be smart here.
I think these Debt holders are catching on that we aren't going to sell much down here to help their average. It is pitiful that many here have fallen for their ploys. The math was extremely simple. The plan will be helpful in extinguishing long term debt held by the company. We just have to deal with the fallout now.
Nope, never move on from that. I'll PM you
I didn't read him as saying it would go to no bid or is likely to go to no bid. Those may be your thoughts and opinions and you have the right to them. But if you have sold and moved on, why are you still here at this point? Obviously no one is happy with the share price but this ticker isn't done. Perhaps you haven't noticed the volume trading here. Even if these sellers are selling like crazy, someone is buying these shares. Consider that for a moment. Hundreds of millions of shares bought down here. Why? Some people are able to see this for what it is which is a speculative play with much story to be told. As stated before, they waited three years to convert some debt to equity. They don't kill the goose before it lays the golden egg. This will surprise many when this month is over. This is of course my opinion but unlike many who bailed and some who feel forced to stay, I am using logic and disregarding emotion here. I can also read so that's a positive. Everyone believes that all pennies are scams. That is just not true. I believe that most believe that because they take losses at such a large amount when they have them that they are left with that thought. The % swings down here hurt as well as help. We will see which one it is here but I will say this, the major damage is done. Most sellers are retail now as the debt holders don't want to sell here. It makes no mathematical sense for them to do so. If you stick around to comment, I only ask that if this turns out in the favor of what I have said, you must come back on and post a positive here. Deal? It's only fair to do so since all of these assumptions that have been made by many angry investors are speculation because they lost money by selling or are down on paper at the very least. I hope you are up to doing so. I in return will come on here and state my error in judgement if I am incorrect here. I publicly make the promise here. GLTU.
Well, we can agree that the month of December, we are done. It will be slow moving. Most people will hold because selling at these levels doesn't make much sense. This slow moving will be watched very closely IMO by all holding here and it will feel like two years when we only have to watch this for 12 more trading days in December. It won't be easy to watch but I believe that anyone who makes it through, will eventually made whole again. This is my stance here. As for the RS, makes little sense to do it now even if it were a lie. Only 30% AS at this point so you shouldn't make it seem like it is right around the corner. Also keep in mind that their conversion rate is at the average of the last five trading days so it is not truly toxic debt based on huge discounts. They wouldn't want to convert any more anytime soon at these levels as it would be like us buying down here while these sellers are around except we are the pissed off ones selling while they are the ones wanting it or go up so you can disregard that as well. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
Yes it does. However, logically, you've read one case where Parkinson was involved, to a minor extent and one where he was involved from a heavier extent but with two other geologists who one is extremely well respected within the industry and you conclusion is that is the history that will repeat. Are those the only two jobs Craig has done in the past? Nope. Maybe he's done 50 or 100 but your using that history instating that it will repeat itself. But you are correct, everyone must make up their own minds here. I have made up mine which is to stay.
Thank you for confirming my statements that it is retail selling here and not the debt holders. Also, your comments about Craig are misleading at best. There were multiple geologists used on Crystal Pistol. You must consider the possibility that since you are looking for foul play due to a red account, anything negative that comes out regarding someone that also has this man's name attached, that this means that this is a scam. Do you know anyone in you life who is a liar, crook, addict, etc? Would it be fair for others to judge you based on the fact that at one point in your life you were friends with this person, did business with this person, etc? Nope...
There are real debt holders. Do you think fake debt holders didn't do a thing for 3 years. If they weren't real, they wouldn't have patience for that long. What you say is speculation with no hard facts to back it up. Use some logic and quite assuming that because you trade in pennies that they all lie, cheat and steal. Many do but I don't see that here. I see people showing red in their accounts that bought when a CEO said we don't need anymore financing which was then translated into no more conversions by shareholders. I know because I did the same thing. However, that doesn't make it a lie. This debt has been here for over three years and the CEO is ABSOLUTELY correct when he said that they can get their opinion letters at this point regardless of their agreement to push off the conversions until 2014 from 2011. This information regarding the debt has been transparent. It was the conversions that snuck up on us. That doesn't make this a scam.