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I would ask this... if the same kind of non-proof were presented by codie, do you think anybody would just accept it? Instead, it just "seems legit" so it is just taken at face value.
While I think what he posted holds some weight in my eyes, I find it amusing that uncorroborated, unsubstantiated and unsourced links is just accepted without a bat of an eye if the hive mind deems it as fact.
I am honestly interested in seeing the details of the settlement, assuming it happened. I am guessing the information will come out and there will be a link that somebody can provide at some point in the future..... but it doesn't look like that day is today.
It would, however raise two hypothetical additional questions in my opinion.
1. Why and how is an alleged insider posting information that may not be publicly available by you or me yet on a message board?
2. Does this bring up legitimacy concerns about the information that we, as a MSLP discussion group, are bringing to the table... I mean if we are accepting uncorroborated, unsubstantiated and unsourced information as fact?
ALL IMO
or did we just prove to ourselves that we take willy nilly, uncorroborated, unsubstantiated junk information and accept it as fact if it meets our emotions about where we want MSLP to be?
I, for one, have tried finding the facts about the settlement of this case against MSLP and think I am pretty good at Google Fu.... nothing.
I happen to think jlargen's information to be legit, but should I really take an opinion board post without any links as fact?
Maybe I should set up a blogging account at Seeking Alpha.
If it can hold today's low as the new bottom, I would be happy.
Just for a point of clarification... since we are talking about facts the past few days.... can anybody find an official link that says the case against MSLP was settled? All I can find is a post on a forum, which seems to be a bit less information than Codie has about this study.
You are right... I don't think it is a trillion dollars, but there a lot of numbers between 0 and a trillion and the settlement between MSLP and NSF (totally on topic) is likely somewhere between those numbers. As we are both individuals who are concerned with facts and not guesses, I figured we might be interested in what that number might be.
Actually... it is not a lot of what ifs.
There was a settlement. period. (well, assuming Jlargents info is good)The dollar amount of that settlement is somewhere between 0 and a trillion. You are guessing it is nothing, but you don't know that. You are not going on facts, you are going on guesses.
Seems pretty up front and sound to me. Beyond that... speculating is sort of what we are doing, right? Maybe you just guess on your investments, but I like to take risks and weight them to rewards. Risks are aalllllll the things we don't know about. The what ifs and the likelihood they are going to happen. On the opposite side of that are the what ifs when the risks are avoided and everything goes hunky dory. Every company has risks. Some have rewards.
So far... all of the "what ifs" haven't really worked out in our favor.
ALL IMO
I would think at some point in Twitter's negative direction, they will decouple. The fundamentals of FB will prop it up at some point, where my opinion is that TWTR is all hype right now based on an expectation of profit in 2015.
I would think at some point in Twitter's negative direction, they will decouple. The fundamentals of FB will prop it up at some point, where my opinion is that TWTR is all hype right now based on an expectation of profit in 2015.
Just curious.... if the settlement involved in this dismissal was for a trillion dollars, would it still be old news?
I doubt it, as it would put MSLP out of business. It is current news, but it is a matter of whether it is relevant or not. One piece of relevant current news is that it was settled out of court and as long as MSLP follow through with the settlement, that is great news going forward. Another piece of relevant current news is what the settlement was for, which we don't know yet. That is very much current news.
Now, that current news may not be relevant to ongoing business if it is small and doesn't impact day to day business.... which is most likely the case. On the other exaggerated extreme, if the settlement is for a trillion dollars, it certainly is relevant to ongoing business. I know you said it was old news a year ago, but obviously there was some merit... as it sounds like MSLP might be paying money today for the mistakes during the time the "old news" was happening.
Maybe MSLP had to admit wrongdoing? What if all other NSF certified supplement companies get together and class act against MSLP based on that wrongdoing? Maybe it won't happen, but it is not out of the scope of reality.
My guess is that they had to submit a plan to get the bad stuff off the market and are paying them a fee that matches the wages of an executive. Just a guess. Not awesome, but not a huge deal. I could by 100% wrong and it was a dart throw guess.
The logic between what is news and what is not news here is weird. Blog posts that regurgitate financials and 8ks in slightly different, but opinionated, ways are hard hitting facts, but lawsuits that have been settled (or we assume based on insider info) during this month that have a substantial potential to alter and/or change financial reporting in the future is old hat?
I am fine with putting this thing behind us, but I will not accept that as long as there is substantial uncertainty about the details or outcome of any matter, that ANYTHING is a done deal or old news. I bring up apparel every once in a while and while it is not the hot topic right now and perhaps "old news" to you, I think it is very current news (and barring any other legal actions as Codie mentioned, I think this to be a much larger piece of news). There are many unknowns to the shareholders that should be known.... and the revelation of those unknowns are the only thing that can put what you are calling "old news" to rest.
Relevant unknown pieces of information to shareholders that may impact pps, revenue, earnings and bottom line in any substantial manner is current news IMO.
ALL IMO
Feb is usually the witching hours at MSLP
I don't know how bogus it is... if the information provided is accurate, it looks to me like there may be a non-disputed settlement involved.
And if it is a settlement where MSLP admits that an agreement was breeched, it brings up Codie's point about other possibilities. I think it is an outlier chance, but still possible.
Probably isn't a crazy settlement if MLSP isn't fighting it, but at the same time they might not want people snooping into ingredients as well. Who knows.... as far as I can tell is that there isn't much more to talk about on this matter except possibly settlement size/terms and other possible litigation... but for any company at any time there is possible litigation.
All IMO.
"The Court retains jurisdiction should this matter be reopened for purposes of enforcing the settlement agreement between the parties. "
It is good that it is settled and thanks for passing that information that does not exist on Google yet along. It would be interesting to understand what the settlement arrangement was.
As far as I can tell:
MSLP may have put the informed choice label on too soon a long time ago, but is now registered and everything is currently hunky dory with MSLP and IC.
NSF is currently taking legal action against MSLP because of this stuff.
Just my take.
I am guessing because discrediting you, this Anthony Roberts guy and his sponsor somehow negates or lessens the reality that there is litigation going on?
I do think you have a point and any negative outcomes of the SEC investigation could open up litigation possibilities on the financial front. And unlike before where they really didn't own anything of real value that could be liquidated, now they own stuff.
In my opinion, the NSF and SEC add a substantial amount of risk to this investment compared to pre-SEC/NSF and their successes increase the size of the target. Why sue someone who doesn't have anything except a few hot tubs? Manufacturing equipment? hmmmm...
I think there is some upside that could impact share price. I think that there is some executive rearrangement that could impact share price. I think there are some buyout options that could impact share price. I think there are some relatively easy efficiency steps that could impact share price (depending how hard bb.com has mslp man bits squeezed). While I don't believe for a second that they are uplisting, it is in the realm of possibility and that would be a positive. Sales of Arnold could be good, but I am curious how that will impact bottom line. IMO... there are several things that could positively impact pps. Timing is probably big.
The best case scenario IMO of both NSF and SEC is that it turns out they didn't break the law. Shoot for the stars, guys... shoot for the stars.
All IMO.
Yeah... because screw ups that are revealed in this fiscal year are the past? These things from the past have a potential to impact the present and future. Do you suppose that when Bernie Madoff was sentenced, it was because of issues only in the past quarter? His present and future, I would say, are fairly dramatically impacted by things done several years ago. Exaggerated example, but the point stands.
And a few thousand dollars for lawyers? Maybe the guys from MSLP are using Slick Steve from the infomercials and 1555STLMENT that specialize in pro bono back injury, womanly mesh problems and corporate law.. but I am probably guessing it costs a few $1000 to pick up the phone.
I tend to agree that the NSF itself won't have an enormous impact, but for jeebus' sake, man, to say that current litigation and current SEC investigations are ancient history is staggeringly bizarre IMHO.
And now it is unfortunate that they have built an environment of mistrust (IMO), because they really can't comment on these ongoing investigations. I get that. If they had the ethical capital with investors, I (and other potential investors) might be more inclined to say "Hey, these guys have been pretty upfront.... now they have these legal issues that they need to address and I understand why they aren't talking about it." Instead, I am thinking in my humble opinion "What the heck are these guys hiding now?" It would seem in my estimation, based on the pps, that others might be thinking the same thing.
All IMO.
Also... I really don't think that a current lawsuit from an International company like NSF is necessarily "old news." There is the possibility of some fairly significant costs and pr damage to a company that has trouble returning dollars to shareholders to begin with.
Thats sort of like saying so-and-so got a curable disease, but hasn't started treatment yet... thats old news. The guy still needs to be cut open and the disease removed. Until the doc gives the all clear, it is pretty fresh and serious news to the guy and his family.
I tend to agree with you on the costs, but who knows, the music industry sues for 100k per uploaded song.
Where I see some real possible problems is the visibility. Imagine this... a time when MSLP has to air dirty laundry because of a lawsuit that brings a microscope to manufacturing practices and ingredients while the SEC aires all the financial dirty laundry at the same time.
I tend to believe it amateur hour at MSLP and was probably more so 2 years ago. And having both going on at the same time is poisonous in my estimation. People have imagined that this board drives the pps, but imagine how it could be driven if found that they are on the poop list of a world respected safety company and on the poop list of the SEC at the same time? From both of these things, IMO, the best case scenario that could come out of ANY of it is "only a little bad." I see absolutely nothing of both of these scenarios that brings a net positive outcome.
All IMO
I guess I don't really understand what you mean by a new market momentum... like, do you mean share price, revenue, sentiment, profit, volume? Revenue will likely increase, but that isn't really new momentum and if I understand correctly, the reported revenue isn't really a great indication of any dollars that actually touch the MSLP bank accounts.
Honestly, the only momentum I really see for them year over year, for this year, has to do with A. getting themselves out of trouble B. beginning to show that they do what they say they are going to do. C. Perhaps some Arnold love, but I will be interested to learn how many actual dollars see the bank at MSLP.
Maybe I am crazy here, but the market just doesn't believe and/or care that MSLP said they are going to uplist, Arnold and Frost are on board or that they are buying back shares. As far as I can tell, the pps has gone down through a majority of all this.
My guess is the only thing they might be buying back is a green lambo. Remember... back when Vick and Rampage were the spokesmen that were going to propel them to a whole notha level? Aren't we supposed to be at like $5 pre-split by now from those guys being on board?
I would really like to see them follow through on this share buyback bs and make some progress with uplisting... as I think those actual things will be beneficial to the share price if they don't hose it down with dilution or other mad hattery.
The only real news here is that they continue to not bring value to shareholders. Lets see an uplisting. Lets see a buyback. Lets see this SEC thing come to rest. Lets see pps go up. How long can they exist in this perpetual state of "oh, now things are going to be better"? And you know what, I am not even sure they are saying that at all... they might just be saying "Let's see if these suckers will believe us this time."
And no... these guys may not have sold shares, but they certainly are cashing checks, which none of us have been doing.
The only thing that has been delivered to me so far is a turd sandwich.
Just to put into perspecive, FB is about triple from it's low. TWTR has not come close to hitting that... I look at the two in bewilderment as well, but then I think about what the two stocks have done. TWTR may be hot and doing well right now in terms of pps, but it just won't be able to match in revenue and profit. They really are in far different worlds in terms of financials or what you are investing in.
TWTR stock may or may not rise, but I just don't see FB not having a good year coming up that will support the share price rather than pure speculation.
Based on the new share offerings, I expect some pretty interesting acquisitions and potential markets to enter over the next year to help grow FB. Dollar per dollar, I see FB as a much safer bet this upcoming fiscal year. TWTR may end up doing better, but sometimes hype wins. From video to phone to platforms to gaming to big data.... FB just has so many more possibilities and ease of entry than TWTR in my opinion.
on to more important blog posts that literally mean nothing? until I see the study, and it sounds like you haven't either, I will add some weight to what is being reported.
If, and that is a big if, it was the cause of the reformulation, I would say it is probably is pretty pertinent to the how the company makes decisions. It would bring up some issues if they intentionally made product that was like the Craze that many here were bashing and trying to say MSLP was just almighty on a whole different level of naturality and purity (it sort of would throw that bs out the window), but it would also speak to how they might make changes and evolve for the future.
Do you see MSLP getting to 8 again in the near future?
This board is something else.... takes a blog post and cries for what a great piece of literature it is and then takes a scientific study, without even reading it, and turds on it like it means nothing.
Did you see the links I posted? They are there to purchase and some of the details are in the comments.
I am not following too closely, but from I am reading here and from the info that was provided, my guess is that they did have the naughty ingredients in their formulation and then they reformulated. Changed it because they were busted?
Not that I really care if they are super natural or not, it is mostly interesting (if true) that they would carry that flag of being special because of the ingredients.
google fu is amazingly easy to find a little info. Yes... blog posts except the report itself, so I can't speak much to them, but at least hey bring some real information to the table to research instead of seekingalpha fluff nonsense.
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/ds-craze-obituary-notice-from-lab.html
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159053071
http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/13/jat.bkt097.full.pdf
What do you think the chances are that they are going to put out another PR talking about how they are going to list?
Like how they are going to buy shares back again? lol.
It is like Ashton is waiting in the wings on this board to tell us how we all just got punked, but we all should have seen it coming.
They are either are deceptive or incompetent about some of these statements and they are proving it by not following through on the words that they release. I really would prefer they would keep their mouths shut about uplisting until they actually do it.... assuming they really intend on doing it.
Because if they are serious about it and not just doing it to dupe us out of money, it, IMO, would be wise to start managing expectations.
Less talkey, more dooey.
Just a note that I am a micro business and I advertise on FB.... it is just so easy and so easy to hit the precise people that I am looking for. Whether it be an actual ad, my page or boosting a post, there is just something for anybody.
So for example, today I targeted men and women between 18-34 in New Orleans, LA and New York who like bacon, cooking and Fifty Shades of Grey.
And I only put down $20!
Seriously... it is amazing stuff.
I gotta say that in the past few days around here, the doo doo has gotten reaaaaaaal deep. The ass sumptions about the intentions and loyalties of people to MSLP are pretty staggeringly fairy taleish. Look, maybe Arnold and Frost see MSLP as the boat to the promised land and will sacrifice the universe to get on that boat, but rather than assume that this is the case, my plan is to go into this thinking that both of these guys don't really hold MSLP or shareholders in all that much esteem. They are here to make a buck and can pull a few more strings than the average guy, so is is simply a fact that they are almost certainly going to get paid before I do. They probably are not out to screw shareholders, but I am here with the guess that they really don't have any real loyalty to me as a MSLP shareholder or really to the company either.
Quite ironic coming from someone who is almost certainly generating revenue from the MSLP brand.
And if you are making the stickers and monitoring social media for free, you should probably charge.
If the question is "would I buy at 12?", then my answer would have to be maybe. Depends on the situation at the time. If it were 12 today? No. I would be out. Given my current holding and strategy here, I anticipate to exit before that.
And I "hold it together" because I am never, ever, ever "all in." The money I have here is serving it's purpose by being in the riskiest category of my investments and while I don't want to lose it, it would not surprise me.
Look, it sounds like you have had some good runs. Props to you and I hope that continues. While I am not risk averse (I am here, right? I am probably going to change careers soon. Put the money up to self publish a book. I have purchased rental properties and sacrificed my moving into them to get a better deal), I would say that payday loans are about as risky as you can get. I also think it is important to weigh your risks vs rewards heavily.
There certainly are some rags to riches stories about people building businesses on credit cards, payday loans and loan shark investments.... but it sounds to me like you are playing a very dangerous game. I assume you need your paycheck to buy food. I would assume you don't have an emergency fund. Perhaps I am wrong, but it sounds to me, based on the fact that you are considering a payday loan, that you are taking very risky moves that could jeopardize your ability to feed your family? I think the chances in the penny market for an average investor is maybe a little better than an blackjack player.
While it would be nice to "hit it big", the reality is that I don't give a crap about playing with the "big boys". Some here have even said they could buy me - well, there are probably some that could buy all my stuff, but my fully functional 10 year old saturn doesn't cost much to replace(and it works great with a little maintenance). I give a crap about where I am... my stuff... my portfolio... my family. Things can happen to the best of us, but it would take a lot to get into a situation where I can't pay for food, shelter and heat. I have been in a situation where I literally had nothing but 2 bags of stuff and no place to live... I take every step possible to make sure I don't end up back at that place.
I give a crap about making sure the necessities are taken care of, continually working to secure my base and then taking the extra and putting it in junk like MSLP with the hopes of hitting it big.
You know what is probably a way better investment for most people than investing in MSLP? Paying off credit cards. Not taking out 1000% interest loans. Building an emergency fund.
While we have butted heads and I think you are a little crazy, I like you. I wouldn't wish suffering on you and it is my opinion that while there is a chance you will do well by taking out payday loans for investment(this is America... anything can happen), there is some significant risk to that sort of lending/investing.
Good Luck to you.
HEY BRAD, YOUR WEBSITE IS DOWN
I was just going to ensure this is the case, but one thing I find interesting about MSLP and bb.com is that last I checked, the musclepharm website redirected everybody to bb.com for purchase.
Many people here have a chubby that we might be able to manufacture and it sounds like there are warehouses all over the place, but being able to ship directly to the customer would be an important step in the chain that has been discussed....
Unless MSLP is going to manufacture product (which they will always have done somewhere ... send it to a warehouse (that they already apparently have).... then send it to bb.com (who likely gets a discount)(which is what is done now) who then sends it to customers at retail price(why don't they do this in addition to bb.com?).
If the full supply chain is something they want to bring efficiency to, I would imagine direct shipping would be an easy win since they already have much of the backbone in place.
I doubt it. Even though this company acts like a penny stock in many ways, it just is no longer a penny stock. There is no hope for "to the moon" overnight multiples. Look at the prices of everything on the breakout board. Almost none of them are in this price range.
Really... what is the short side (3-6 month) upswing from here that is within the realm of possibility? 50-75%? Can't compete with ihub flippers anymore.
Unfortunately, it really isn't seen as legitimate in the big boy world either. As proven by the share price, the inability to attract investors and continued failure to bring shareholder value to the table.
Perhaps one day MSLP will grow into it's big boy underpants, but as long as they keep on wetting the bed, nobody is going to trust them.
I don't know if having Cory as the Chief Facebook Officer is necessarily cheap.
So I would ask... did we have dilution in between the few months where they announced the share buyback and the R/S last time?
Honestly... I don't remember, but I suspect it was there.
No.
As history proves, announcing a share buyback does not necessarily mean that it actually means that there is actually shares being bought back.
So, I am not claiming to have the answers, but how could Brad Frost profit by artificially raising the price of the shares? Since we know (or at least that is what was said) that there is financing in the works, how could it be arranged to remove money from our pockets, as that is my first instinct when it comes to these guys.
Do I believe shares will be bought back? not really. Not until I see it anyways. Do I think there is something going on that does not benefit the average shareholder... probably.