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Actually there were quite a few saying that news was not coming in a couple of weeks......we just did not feel the need to pat ourselves on the back that we were right.
It's not what you say mojo that people don't like....it's how you say it. Nobody likes a smart azz.
Manshoon is the only one of the three that you mentioned who supplies links to his dd. Remember....you are not into the proof thing....I do not remember you ever supplying any links to any dd. The only link I remember you supplying was for a "google e-mail" phishing site. Anyone who followed you to the other forum should be very leary of any info they had to provide to access that forum.
Sorry to see you are still confused about the MM's. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree....now that is the "same old same old".
So you would have us all believe that you are watching 100k gain slipping away....I guess your not as smart as you would have all of us believe. Or is it you think everyone here is just that naïve.
You are correct that the "same old same old" is still going on, but you are mistaken about where it is coming from. The Market Maker NITE is still playing the "same old same old" game they always play. They waited for the volume to slow down and then methodically and deliberately brought the pps down. There has not been enough volume during this walk down to account for shares issued to calm seas and the restricted shares Kim sold(I guess he needed some cash for his summer vacation). If you disagree with MM manipulation, especially from NITE, then you need to do a little more research. I agree there has been selling by stockholders, but not enough to bring it down this fast on the amount of volume we have seen during this walk down over the past few days.
NITE has been sitting on the ask since thursday last week and controlling this downturn. I wouldn't think about buying until they have completed their business. When NITE moves out of the way for a day or two the pps will stabilize and then it will be a good place to pick up some more shares at these artificially induced bargain prices.
One day it's bill money, then another it's so you can take your son to New York for a vacation, and now it is fun money. Yes Eddie there are some here who like your post. It's because we find them so entertaining. Have you ever heard the saying..."I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you"? Well in your case I feel many are laughing at you. Kinda like the crazy uncle who sits in the corner at a family reunion and mumbles and laughs to himself.....everyone just understands and smiles without being rude. But hey, keep up the posting as we all find it very amusing.
That's all interesting....but my reply to your post was in reference to the fact that the silk worm goes through metamorphosis during the cocoon stage and emerges as a moth.
What.....are you serious???? Now you are speculating that another reason for delay could be controlled by Calm Seas....now this is simply amazing......you have officially lost any respect that I had left for any comments from you other than the science of how the zinc fingers work. Really......Calm Seas could be the reason for a delay in the release of a pr referencing GM success using Zinc Fingers.......hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Hahaha.....glad to see someone else caught the metamorphosis idea.
If the pps is not going down quick enough the market makers will most definitely sell borrowed shares(don't want to use the evil term of naked short selling) to bring the price in the range to cover their short position. Buy to cover and sell a small amount at the bid to keep the price going down. It's their game and we are just along for the ride and until the SEC steps in and puts in place some regulations and chooses to strictly enforce them we are condemned to play the market maker game.
You are correct when you say the market makers will make out fine as they always do. Yes, they will make their profits in the over all scheme and would not blink a eye if and when they are caught in a short position with kblb. I just said it would be fun and profitable when it happens and I believe it surely will one day.
Just google NITE and I am sure you will find the information found very interesting.
Here is a good read to understand level 2 and Market Makers. They have some interesting things to say about the "ax" market maker and guess who usually is the dominating "ax" during a run.....you guessed it .....NITE.
http://stockalyzing.com/stock-learning/104-understanding-level-2-and-market-makers.html
Eddie, if you got into your new stock from a tip from an e-mail newsletter and it is up 70%, then my advice to you is you better sell now and take your profits. Care to let us no which stock you are in?
MM NITE is still in control of this stock and as long as they are sitting on the bid/ask this stock will continue its downward spiral. I can only assume they had a huge short position during the recent run and now they are selling into the run down to cover their short position. It's not that Kim is running this company like a pinky. It's the MM's are playing it like a stinky pinky. Eventually they will be caught with their pants down with this company and it will be both fun and profitable to watch.
I would hope in the future that when some veteran posters here offer an alternate idea as to when a pr may possibly be released you would consider it before shooting it down. The main problem with predicting pr's is there are reader's here that take that prediction as gospel (sorry Eddie, but you are the example) and get frustrated when such events do not unfold. If you had been here since Sept. of last year you would have been well aware of Kim's propensity to wait until success before making a statement. He does not do fluff pr's for anyone and that includes SIAL. If SIAL is impatient and you feel they have some heavy hand on his shoulder in which they can influence his decision then you both are in for a lesson of how Kim is running this company. He is patient and calculating and this is what sets this company apart from a lot of other poorly run pink companies. He will let the public know of his successes when they are verified and confirmed by outside sources and not before. This way he is never going to put himself, the scientist, or the company in an embarrassing situation.
Typically not a good thing to see NITE sitting on the bid/ask at opening. We very well may finish in the red today.
Plan on doing that today and mentioned doing so in an earlier post. I guess you missed that.
Thank you RT....the reason why I brought this up is I found in the S-1/A filing that kblb had restrictions applied to it for the use of some of the 200 genes licensed from the U of W. Just as you, I have often read where Kim has laid out the uses for the different Gen's that kblb was attempting to accomplish. I pointed it out to this board for an open discussion to the point you brought up. Possibly the restriction has been renegotiated and is a non issue. If it has not been renegotiated then it most certainly is a valid point for discussion and important enough for me that I am sending an e-mail to Kim tomorrow and if that goes unanswered I will attempt to reach him by phone.
Dr. Jarvis has already created spider protein in goats milk....what's to say that he had not already made an agreement with another company about the uses of certain genes from his 200 spider genes for uses in sporting goods and medical applications(yes Zinc, I am aware this is speculation and am noting it as such). Dr. Jarvis's research was funded by the military. This speculated agreement could have been made prior to any agreements that were made with kblb...thus the reason for the restrictions. The restrictions have nothing to do with Notre Dame because they do not have control of Dr. Jarvis's IP.
"Who ELSE could they license them to? Who else could make any use of them without the silkworm? No one but KBLB can use either the piggyBac"
Who else could use them? Well...let me think...ummmm.....would Notre Dame themselves not be a candidate? That's right, they do own the patent to the piggybac process and I don't think they have to ask kblb's permission to use a process that they hold a patent to.
If the "restriction" was of no concern and should just be ignored as a minor negotiation at a later time then why is it listed as a "risk factor" in the S-1/A filing with the SEC. KBLB thought it was significant enough to say to potential investors....hey, look potential investors we consider this as an important enough "risk factor" that we have included it in a prospectus filed with the SEC, so our advice to you is to consider this point before investing your money in our company.
What other evidence can I provide you other than a direct quote from an SEC filing that states that kblb has restrictions on sporting goods and medical applications? What other evidence do you need. Why don't you supply some evidence to support your speculation. I have made no speculations, I have just supplied direct quotes from SEC filings. You remind me of a politician when they are presented with a direct question....they side step the question and avoid answering at all and you use smoke screens to divert the question back to the person asking the question. I know Manshoon asked you in the past if your initials were K.K.T., while I know you are not Kim I am not so sure that you do not work for Calm Seas or SWA. Your post surely sound a lot like the newsletters I have read from Stockwatchalert.
If I'm not mistaken the 200 spider genes we have licensed from U of Wyoming all came from the golden orb weaver.
Actually the restriction applies to "some" not "all" of the 200 spider genes (not silk) related to the spinning of spider silk.
"If KBLB was unsuccessful someone would buy out or own the rights KBLB owns as part of the winding up of the company. Unless ND or UW were the major creditors it probably would not be them. That's why they need an insurance policy hence the reserved rights."
Again....pure speculation on your part. You do much better on reporting how the science works.
If you are insinuating that a restriction on sporting goods and medical applications is a low priority item then you are badly mistaken and maybe you should of not responded to my post in the first place.
What you conveniently ignore is documented proof from SEC filings and conveniently insert your own speculation.
I simply pointed out a statement in the S-1 filing that stated there were restrictions in place that concerned sporting goods and medical applications. Do you have any speculations as to why just sporting goods and medical applications were chosen to put restrictions on? I do not think it has anything to do with possible control over the product if kblb was unsuccessful. If kblb was unsuccessful then they would lose control of everything as they would not be able to continue as a business and renew their agreements with the universities.
Even if Kim is spending the summer in So. Cal. It should not delay any future developments....I assume he has a laptop, a cell phone and knows how to purchase a plane ticket and rent a car. So it doesn't matter if he is in So. Cal. Or Indiana, modern technology allows you to conduct business from anywhere in the world.
I appreciate your optimism. Is this optimism from a "gut" feeling? Do you think the restrictions could possibly be in place so that the universities could profit from such endeavors? Gatorade was owned and produced by the University of Florida for years before they sold the licensing rights. If they were going to put in restrictions for some speculated future competition why did they just choose sporting goods and medical applications. Unless you can show me some documented proof that this is something that should just be ignored I will continue to see it as a huge concern.
Found something interesting on page 9 under "Risk Factors" of Form S-1/A dated June 3, 2010.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1413119/000121390010002317/fs1a4_kraig.htm
" Some, but not all, of the gene sequences that we have licensed from Notre Dame and the University of Wyoming are covered by restrictions in the licensing agreement which preclude their use by us for sporting goods and medical applications."
If these restrictions have not been renegotiated it looks like we can kiss sporting goods and medical application markets goodbye. That would be a large portion of market share and market penetration thus our share value.
DD applies to all sectors of a company...not just the science.
Sorry Eddie, Kim did not say that at all. I think what happened is you became confused between what Kim said and what Zincfinger has projected as his time line. The only person you should listen to is Kim himself....any other statements are pure speculation.
Alas....you have been zincafied!!!!!
You might want to talk with your brother about that again and when you do I am sure he will tell you he does not ask a non hostile witness a question unless he already knows the answer. I am absolutely sure if he is a successful attorney he never asks a question of a witness unless he knows the answer before hand, whether it is a witness he is cross examining or a witness he has called himself. It definitely does not apply just to a hostile witness.
I apply this philosophy to every day life. Again I am not playing games here. I am here to gain information about the stock that I am heavily invested in and I want this information to be based on facts.
I understand how and why you are coming to your conclusions. I am just saying that myself and a few others here do not agree with your conclusions. Does it make us right and you wrong? Not at all....it means we have differing views about how we come to our conclusions. Time will only tell who turns out to have been correct. One thing is for certain, a year from now none of this discussion will have any relevance nor shall it be remembered. I am looking forward to that day because I will be able to sit back and relax and watch my investment grow until my retirement.
The confusion you are feeling Zinc is that I never quoted you as saying anything. When you presented the Sept 7th PR as evidence to support your opinion that Kim PR's events as they happen I was merely pointing out the flaw in your opinion. I did this by stating that from the Sept 7th PR to the Sept 29th PR there was not enough time for all of the evidence that was presented during the Press Conference to be assembled (i.e. Spun fiber on spools, independent lab results, coordinating 3 separate entities to participate in the press conference, get permission from Notre Dame to hold a Press Conference on campus etc.). Thus the GM success had to have occurred well before the Sept 7th PR.
Have you never listened to someone explaining something and when they are through.....you hear someone say.....so you are saying.....it is not meant as you are quoting someone......it is a common way of asking for clarification.....geeeshh....I really did not think it was necessary to explain this to you. Maybe I was a little optimistic when I said you were a reasonably intelligent person.
If it is of any consequence I do hope you are correct in your assumption that Kim will PR the success of the zinc finger insertions. I just am not betting on it. One final note, as I have said in the past I have not sold a single share since I bought kblb in late August and have only purchased additional shares once when the pps dropped in the .06 range and I doubled my position at that time.
"and only after that do you present evidence which presumably you knew beforehand but did not reveal. So just exactly what kind of game are you playing here?"
I am not playing any games here. One thing you need to know about me is I will never ask a question during a debate unless I already know the answer. I learned this from two very influential people in my life. The first was my Father....he was a very successful attorney and taught me that if you do not know the answer do not ask the question. His lesson behind this was that if you do not know the answer before hand you can not have a response to the answer. The other person who validated this lesson was my college debate coach.
I agree with you that the zinc fingers make things different this time. That is not in question. But, to say what happened in the past is irrelevant is a irresponsible conclusion. The only way to gauge how Kim will handle future events is to look back at how he handled past events. That my friend is all that some of us are saying....we are basing our opinion on how Kim has handled things in the past.....he has said on numerous occasions that he doesn't inform the investors on every step he is taking along his journey but will inform us when he reaches his destination (paraphrasing, not a direct quote).
Let's put an end to this without writing a thesis. What did Kim say his time line for Gen2 was during the latest cc? Did he say he would let us know when they successfully created a GM with the Zinc Fingers or did he say we should know something by this Fall? If I remember correctly he said we would here something in the Fall of this year. Therefore my prediction and others here who have said the same thing is not based on opinion but rather based on a factual statement from Kim himself.
Now to the discussion that I am putting words in your mouth. I assume what you are talking about here is the 22 day time frame. By you using the two PR's one issued on Sept 7 and the other issued on Sept 29 to support your opinion you may not have used the words "22 days" but you definitely were suggesting "22 days". (29 - 7 = 22)
Now to my use of "arrogant" to describe some of your behavior.....well this conclusion came from the statement that you made to Saint and Manshoon when you made the remark that their "gut" feeling could have been caused by something they ate. This sir was an arrogant attitude and a smart @ss remark. Saint and Manshoon have been contributing to this board long before you showed up on the scene and both have contributed valuable dd to this forum and I would suggest in the future that you show a little respect and common courtesy before you make any off the cuff statements. I have told you in the past that I appreciate your contribution to this board, but remember you are just one of many contributors.
I choose number 3.
So from the evidence you posted to support your opinion you are saying that it took 22 days for the silk worm to complete its life cycle to the cocoon stage, to have these cocoons processed and their fiber spun on spools, the fiber sent to an independent testing facility in south korea and tested and results returned and organize the joint press conference.
Your examples prove my opinion that we will not receive a pr until kblb knows what they have. My guess is that they knew at the end of Aug or the beginning of Sept that they were successful in creating recombiant spider silk. You do realize that it takes a while to organize a joint press conference because their were 3 separate entities involved. KBLB started releasing the PR's when they knew what they had and not before.
It does not matter how many here agree with your time line. You are still speculating as to when he will release a PR and this sir is just your opinion. What Saint is basing his "gut" feeling on is the same as what I am basing mine own. Kim stated in the cc that we should expect results from Gen2 this fall and if I am badly mistaken it was the introduction of the zinc fingers that is suppose to bring success to Gen2. We are basing our opinion on what was said by the ceo. I understand that SIAL has a strong desire for the success of the ZFn's and would like to PR any success as soon as it happens. What you have to remember is this is not a experiment being conducted by SIAL, it is an experiment conducted by kblb and they have full control of the PR machine. SIAL only has the authority to review and approve any PR's related to their zinc fingers not the authority to tell kblb when to release the pr's.
My point in calling you out on this is the way you attacked and talked down to Saint for posting his opinion and you sir are posting your opinion also. So I do not think I was unfairly responding to your post.
While your pr time line estimate is based on the amount of time it takes to complete the zinc finger insertions and test for success, it is still just a guess as to when Kim will decide to PR this event. So a guess based on a "gut" feeling (based on Kim's previous performance) and a guess based on "factual" zinc finger insertions are both simply guesses as to when success will be pr'd. You are both presenting your opinions and neither carries more weight than the other.
"But the real clue is this: The Moster Silk worms with 80 % spider silk protein in their silk could cut their way out. It is hard to imagine how they could have done that if the enzyme could not handle spider silk protein."
Here again you are saying kblb has achieved 80% spider silk protein. Dr. Fraser stated that the recombiant silk they created was about 80% as strong and flexible as native spider silk. This does not mean they achieved 80% spider silk "protein" as the silk worm silk would have some percentage of strength and flexibility when compared to native spider silk. For example, if silk worm silk had 20% strength and flexibility characteristics when compared to spider silk then they would have added 60% to the silk worm's silk strength and flexibility. Does this mean that they created a recombiant silk with 60% spider silk protein? I have no clue as to what percentage of spider silk protein was created and neither do you. I just want you to stick with the facts. Stating a certain percentage of spider silk protein was achieved when no one from kblb has made that statement is misleading.
If I remember right, any pr from kblb about zfn's have to be approved by sial. With this in mind it could very well be sial that pr's kblb's success using zfn's and kblb would do a follow up pr.
Good post.....I think you are absolutely correct. It is very clear that it would be in Calm Seas interest to have someone in place to verify the legitimacy of any PR's.
I agree the amount of shares he received is astounding.
I believe he is Calm Seas inside guy. What is his purpose? Not sure....he could be there to monitor and report back to Calm Seas that KBLB is continuing on a path of completing or at least attempting to complete the milestones they have set. He could also be in place to inform Calm Seas on key events to assist in the sale of their shares (I believe this option would be securities fraud as it would violate insider trading rules). So I feel his official position is to verify that kblb is moving forward as a legit company.
He wasn't Kim's choice. Read the initial agreement letter from calm seas that was signed in Sept. 09.