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better than I could have ever said
There are also fax's dating back 17 years from decosta and Lp together pumping medinah and the imminent short squeeze. 17 years they have been claiming "soon". LP and decosta are partners in this share distribution scheme, hence why the only photo of decosta at the agm was with LP. Not that that signifies anything, but it is not surprising , considering they are the good cop bad cop team. What is most vile about decosta is the very fact he uses his extensive knowledge of the adl and geology to pull the wool over shareholders heads. When you think about who make up the medinah team you have GC (the fraud expert), LP ( who defrauded the widows) , decosta, the (exchange expert) and a JJ (chiliean lawyer who may be crooked according to some). It's no wonder they have gotten away with it for 17 years. And when you add to that the fact that the ex president of medinah publicly stated that LP will never close a jv, as he makes more money flipping the stock, it becomes clear why they partner up with elusive or criminal partners lie partners A and B. And speaking of elusive, where this partner C some folks here claim we have?
decosta is on a brainwash mission
seeing as there is no jv in sight, it would only make sense that decosta do his best to brainwash shareholders into submission. Let's cherry pick:
in regards to Ulander :" They spent a fortune on due diligence on the ground.They spent a fortune with Baker and Mackenzie in the drafting of the contract. ". " Why would Uhlander spend all of that money and put in all of those hours of effort unless he intended to complete the deal? "
- Proof of Ulander spending money on lawyers and due dili? NONE. In fact, this is the same ploy kirk used with partner A, claiming that the lawyers flew to chile weeks before the default, and that there was no way in hell they would be spending this money if they weren't going to fund.
And now decosta has gone from saying that "apparently" the partners asked mdmn to coalesce all of those properties into MMC into " Judge them on how they performed in coalescing all of those properties into MMC as DEMANDED and executed the take out of MMC by MMINA. "
-soooo now he's claiming that the partners "demanded" the coalescing all of those properties . There is no proof there is a partner, never mind that they "demanded" anything. Decosta is just trying to brainwash people into thinking we have a partner, when the company itself has never said they had a deal in hand.
He is also conveniently forgetting that the BOD promised we would not go with a partner B without funding in advance. The company lied to shareholders plain and simple,and conned them onto thinking the deal "done done done". It's always a bad sign when decosta is on a mission to brainwash, it means we are in really bad state. The market seems to agree, we are one penny short of no deal at all, according to Ricks .04 rule
no wonder we have no jv, nor official word of one
everyone relax, might be another 3 to ten years to wait
yes, here's more from doctor slime decosta
" How in the world can it take in between 20 and 27 years average between the commencement of exploration activities and going into production? THEORY ONLY: In lousy mining environments, potential suitors showing good intent by spending tons of money during the due diligence and contract phases of strategic alliances are having trouble with raising the big bucks in the background"
20 to 27? seems it keeps going up, last time it was 17 years, up from 15 (conveniently goes with up with ever medinah failure) . What the good doctor slime seems to be omitting is that we got into bed with ulander, a criminal. There is no proof he spent any money on DD. What we do know is that medinah got into bed with a criminal, and that hardly sounds like your average exploration activity. Gotta love the way he tries to fit this shifty pink sheet mining scam with the world of mining exploration.
I've been cajoled into addressing these comments made on a different forum:
"Coming to a prospect like ADL with limited concrete information is a gamble, but then so is all exploration; it depends on the relevant company and their attitude to risk - obviously positive audited data mitigates against the level of risk and also gives a tentative indication of the minimum potential deposit size (many companies operate a 'cut-off' below which they will not operate depending on their business model).
[RESPONSE: I feel that mineral exploration always represents ultra-high risk offset by ultra-high reward. As far as "cuft off" grades all mining companies utilize them. Typically you want to set your cut off grade at the level that maximizes the deposits NPV. You need to keep in mind that as the cut off grade increases the mine life must decrease but since the NPV calculus is based upon discounted cash flows over the mine life this is automatically factored into the NPV calculation.]
"Historically the area has been subject to artisanal mining for gold and copper in particular which indicates some level of mineralisation; but artisanal miners are able to operate at levels that mechanised mining cannot and to a time scale and work schedule all their own. Artisanal miners in Chile are extremely adept at mining the high-grade 'eyes' out of a manto or breccia or stockwork in often dangerous very confined spaces with a minimum of structural support and mechanised equipment; they are almost always halted by the water table or when their workings are become too structurally unsound. Mechanised miners need to work 24/7, produce bulk tonnages and ensure a consistent feed to the mill, so they need a known resource to base their mine planning on. Coming to something like ADL, which is a pure exploration play isn't something I would expect a mid-tier company to do, rather they would wait for a junior to explore first and firm up a resource before they committed time and money to the project."
[RESPONSE: In regards to: "Coming to something like ADL, which is a pure exploration play isn't something I would expect a mid-tier company to do, rather they would wait for a junior to explore first and firm up a resource before they committed time and money to the project", I couldn't disagree more. Firstly, the goal for most juniors is to get the deposit to whatever stage of development that would attract the interests of a major. Today's mining environment is characterized by the majors digging deeper and deeper while going after lower and lower grades in countries with higher and higher levels of geopolitical risk. In regards to the infrastructure at the ADL/LDM property complex water and power are already there. The elevation is quite favorable in supporting a year round work program. Chile has nearly always been in the top 3 countries when it comes to low geopolitical risk. The potential labor pool from Santiago is enormous.
Secondly, I wouldn't consider it a "pure exploration play". There appear to be several early production opportunities. The ACA Howe report cites "significant" high grade tailings and dumps averaging 5.3 gm/tonne gold. The artisanal miners had trouble processing arsenopyrites and extracting the gold. If the discards are running at 5.3 gpt then what was the head grade? At the Fortuna Mine from 1940 to 1970 production averaged over 64 grams per tonne gold. ACA Howe is on the record as stating that the surface has barely been scratched on the eastern aspects of the plateau. The chosen partner is rumored to be already in production in this area on the north slope of the plateau. Medinah has simply never had the resources nor the intent to further define all of these areas once suitors got to the comfort level needed to make a move. Unfortunately the last 2 suitors, group A and B, were not able to fund their commitments even after spending considerable amounts of capital on due diligence, travel, legal, etc. Getting left at the altar when it's time to cut the check is not exactly an atypical occurrence in the junior mineral sector. The pain involved is bad because the due diligence process takes so long before making financial commitments the size that need to be made. Between this fact and permitting hassles, they help to explain the inordinate amounts of time it takes for the average junior explorer with a discovery to advance from the commencement of exploration efforts to production. It is the inordinate length of this "cycle" and the lack of new discoveries that drives the majors to shut down their own exploration efforts and take out companies with significant discoveries sooner rather than later in the development of the deposit. The reserves on their balance sheets need to be replaced and with gold prices approaching the costs to produce an ounce of gold high grade, near surface deposits in favorable infrastructures i.e. low costs to produce an ounce have never been in higher demand. The Pebble and Pascua Lama deposits have taught us this lesson.]
"The LDM may sound good on paper, but the sampling undertaken there is not fit for purpose and would not stand up to scrutiny. Sampling is a complex method of establishing ore tenor to a high level of confidence based on the structure of the deposit, mineralogy, chemistry and statistical behaviour of the metals involved and works by establishing a sphere of influence for each sample point. Sampling at LDM is very coarse (single samples covering several metres) and carries no geological context or explanation. Carbonate and oxide copper species can carry 60-90% copper. Hit a 20cm pod of cuprite in a 5m sample and you may get an assay grade of around 4% copper back; base your tonnage and grade calculations on this and you will get a very large figure, when in reality almost all the copper was in the little pod and the other 4.8m carries next to nothing. Your tonnage is more like poundage in this case. Refer back to some of my earlier posts regarding gold; correct sampling there is even more critical."
[RESPONSE: The sampling protocol on the LDM involved standard "channel sampling" done across the working face prior to the next round of blasing. Late stage cross-cutting veins were similarly "channel sampled". The formal reports citing UTM and/or GPS coordinates and methodology has not been made public as of yet unless the suitors have demanded such or done their own sampling.]
"With regard to Perez; he was able to identify two porphyry bodies with some attendant alteration and may have felt able (issues with translation?)to infer a connection with the known inca and artisan-worked mineralisation on the plateau; that isn't something that could be done today without firm evidence. Simply having a porphyry, even one with evidence of hydrothermal activity does not mean you have an ore deposit on your hands. The Sillitoe model is just that - a model which illustrates an ideal situation; reality is often far more complex. In any event there are, as yet, no boreholes into these porphyries to quantify any mineralisation if it is present."
[RESPONSE: Formal reserve definition will obviously be done by the strategic alliance partners as per their needs. The 2 main parameters involved in deciding how far the juniuor will continue its development efforts will involve attaining the potential partner's comfort level to make a move and the share price of the junior which would dictate how much dilution would be involved in going to the next level of development. If a management team feels that their share price is woefully undervalued then handing the keys over to a partner sooner rather than later might make sense. There is a new paradigm in the current mining sector and it is centered on exploiting low cost early production opportunities while defining the deposit. In the mining sector, communication efforts seem to slow to a trickle whenever the company is in the process of drafting joint venture contracts. Unfortunately for us, due to past history Medinah has spent most of their corporate life in this mode.]
right on time from doctor "scam" decosta
Unfortunately his post seems to be saying "don't worry, even if we don't have a jv, we are still golden"
longest running mining scan no doubt
from mike gold (LP) december 2nd :
"Prepare for launch. Hopefully the last few hours to a few days of waiting don't drive some over edge."
from today : "Man up..it is embarrassing."
and he says our partner is volcon? ROFLMAO
doctor "slime" decotsa would beg to differ
he's spent a lot of time convincing shareholders that the ldm "data" is a view on the rest of the mountain, claiming the homologous nature of polyphory as his selling point. Then again he tried to convince shareholders that that criminal ulander was going to fund at the 11th hour, so it is clear what his agenda is. People don't seem to connect widow frauding LP with slime ball decosta, but they are partners in this penny stock mining sham.
legitimate, yet unreliable at best
unfortunately once again medinah sharehodders get their holdiday gifts, backdoorstyles. Thanks to mike gold for promising a jv before the holidays, and now telling people to relax. LP and the gang love torturing shareholders, no doubt
I heard first week of February
Apparently the deal is a lot bigger than expected , and it's going to be "well worth the wait". I wouldn't expect anything sooner, but do expect it to be big.
according to Rick H
.04 is traditionally the line in the sand demarcating whether we have a deal or not, which means we are .0086 of cent from no deal at all. Would volcon really get involved with a documented stock manipulator and scam artist like LP, or is this a match better reserved for criminals like unlander?
expectations for JV delivery have been lowered
: "I expect sometime before I die"
Unfortunately for some, "before I die" exceeded expectations. Like Lp always said "we may not deliver a JV, but we guarantee our shareholders the spiritual tools they'll need on their journey to the other side".
latest tweet
"Chilean government organizing MDMN inauguration banquet now" Kirk
Don't worry goldstrike
With Lp leading the pack, and his track record for deception, broken promises and failed JV's, there is a high chance medinah will continue to deliver spiritual rewards.
santa coals for medinah again
But that is why we love being part of the extended medinah family, the spiritual gains and fortitude are unparalleled. The shareholder base has become accustomed to hardship through failed deal after failed deal, and broken promise after broken promise. This time around when the deal goes south, most will not be phased and simply say "been there, done that, onto partner d " And therein lies the beauty of this deal, with a full alphabet to exploit, even the new generation of those inheriting medinah shares will be able to advance on a spiritual level. Like LP and decosta always say "empty those bank accounts, your spiritual growth awaits!"
" But well meaning men and women of good faith do not repeatedly make statements to mislead "
precisely! We are not dealing with men of good faith. Beth already pointed out greg's behaviour IE "its done, done, done" and LP is a well documented liar. Telling loyal shareholders that the end of last week would be really interesting speaks for itself . Drilling by december 1st? It appears they are keeping quiet officially, and letting the back channel communications do the lying for them.
did they ever officially say they had a deal?
seems there was a lot speculation thrown out that the supposed partners had us do all this work. Even decosta offers that this was "apparently" the case, but it was never offered officially by the company
from doctor slime himself :
"After the partner's BOD apparently mandated that we amalgamate all of those concessions into one entity i.e. MM Chile and then have MMINA buy out MMC and then have the Chilean Mining Registry check off on the status of each and every concession as to title and tax issues then I would hope that some type of quid pro quo was involved like them funding the drilling account or something similar. Until the marriage is officially consummated the two parties need to keep their task lists somewhat in balance. That was a tremendous amount of work they mandated us to do. "
He forgot to add apparently to the last sentence, which should have read " That was a tremendous amount of work they apparently mandated us to do.
from Resource Miner (the poster that confirmed there was no ore being shipped)
1. If a board of a real mining company, which is public, approves a JV that will require a significant investment, it would be public. Which tells me either a deal is not done or the partner is private. Real mining companies don't operate like MDMN which announces things whenever they feel like, if at all.
2. Why would Volcan, which just got down graded, jv on the ADL. Yes, diversification was one of the items noted. But as importantly, if not more, was deteriorating cash flow and liquidity. Taking on a JV for the ADL only compounds those problems.
3. Someone posted there has to be a quid pro quo for amalgamating the properties/entities, such as funding a drilling account. A real mining company would not let MDMN anywhere near a drill program. They have the experts and experience, MDMN is having trouble mining a simple project like the LDM.
4. Lastly, why would a jv partner pay us anything when the partner will be funding 100% of the exploration and development of the mountain?
Maybe I think this way because I don't have much invested here and have been in the stock for a relatively short period. But I classify this as nothing more than a gamble on a pink sheet. How can you trust a company that calls there quarterly report a 15-211 which is really just a rule and has nothing to do with reporting requirements. Not to mention no explanation on where the revenues reported are coming from.
from mike gold
"Everything remains a go. The BOD of our partner has approved the JV. Just waiting on a couple of signatures. Money side all set. The holidays and some higher priorities that our partner had seem to have been the only thing standing in the way."
so.... Everything is still a go? Great, I guess that needed reassurance. The bod of partner has approved the JV? Awesome, for a second there we thought they may pass on it. Only a couple of signatures left? That's nothing. Money side all set? Oh oh, there's that "set" word again. "Set date, set deal" , that's one of LP's favourite words that usually signifies something is amiss. After all, those "set" dates always fail, and the "set" deals always go bust. As far as the holidays standing in the way, I guess we could have all predicted that one. Mike should get his excuses aligned though, in order to avoid confusion.
" I wouldn't relax. Especially considering that the holidays are upon us-activity on concluding our JV is at a very high level"
Hey HR, hope you see the pattern building,with rumours of delays being the onset of a long drawn out process. Nothing close to finalization about this deal
looks like doctor "slime" decosta is getting slammed on mp
I think it's becoming glaringly clear that decosta is nothing but a shill. Only a fool wouldn't notice the absurdity of his posts.
You are certainly free to have an opinion.
Regardless, doctor "slime ball" decosta is being watched very closely by that baldy, who no longer permits decosta to attempt to brainwash shareholders into thinking that the company can make excuses until the cows come home. As you will notice, decosta tends to hide rather quickly after being confronted with the absurdity of his posts. What else can a shill do but hide?
Stevej, isn't decosta such a great guy?
"I still think that the best anti-anxiety med in this sector is super deep due diligence."
Decosta is such a buddy to medinah shareholders. It's so sweet of him to offer that most of the high anxiety the shareholders suffer could be avoided with some deep due dilly. Unfortunately he seems to have forgotten that his slime ball partner LP told shareholders that the end of the week would be really interesting. And that MG had everyone on high tweeter alert for a jv before x-mas. Has decosta not noticed that his promotional partners are setting up shareholders for major expectations? I think Baldy got it right when he said that decosta's deep due dilly is just deep doo. And to think that some people consider decosta such a great guy.
so heart warming :
"If there is one benefit to being in this stock other than the money I hope to make, it is the friends that I have made during this journey"
almost brings a tear to my eyes. The only ones making money from medinah are those that know it is just a scam (big promises, zero delivery). But if it wasn't for these people the spiritual and social aspect of medinah would never come to fruition. Some people are so ungrateful.
"I just hope they release something positive so I can sell and get out from this nightmare. "
LP did say things would get interesting by end of week
What he omitted to explain is that he and the other promoters get a special pleasure out of setting up the shareholders for expectation, and then watching them fall apart when nothing happens. It's always interesting to watch, to say the least. The latest intel from LP regarding a jv this year is "probably not". When you pour enough alcohol into the body, it is difficult to feel guilty about anything. This would explains LP's ruthless ability to deceive shareholders time and time again, never mind all the money he and the other promoters have made from lying through their teeth. A shareholder posted an interesting anecdote the other day on MP. Apparently he visited LP at his Vancouver office many years ago, but LP went running out the door, not willing to entertain. According to the shareholder LP was acting strange, appearing to be drunk at 3 pm.
medinah, the gift that keeps giving
LP and decosta are well aware of the massive therapeutic and social component of being a medinah shareholder. You haven't just bought into a stock, you have bought into a family and a way of life. Shareholders are encouraged to make best friends on the Miningplay, use first names, and to be there for each other through sickness and death. What other stock can claim such a strong bond among the shareholder base? And like any disaster, the bond only gets stronger in the face of adversity, or in our case, non performance. After all, there are more important things in life than money, such as family and health. When the money invested after being promised that the deal was done disappears, and family and friends stop talking to you because you insisted they invest on a sure thing, and your health suffers drastically from the stress of disappointment week after week, year after year, what do shareholders really have left other than to look deep inside themselves and ask the important questions?
Like deocsta always said "the more money you lose with medinah, the more spirituality you stand to gain, so go ahead and empty those bank accounts, your spiritual growth is waiting"
medinah non performance = therapy
even though medinah continues to be the longest running mining scam in history, there are those who have managed to turn torture into therapy.
" I don't remember exactly how many years I've been invested because I don't care. It doesn't mean anything to me other than I've gained a tremendous amount of patience and used this investment and this forum to stir up all kinds of unpleasant stuff in myself which I worked on resolving in order to help me be the person I want to be. That's as valuable as any money I'll get out of the investment. Whatever unpleasantness I've endured from all of this has made me a better person"
yeah, from mike gold's brother :
"I still believe that the closer we get the greater the possibility that delays can happen while we go over speed bumps set there by those with a vested interest in our failure. My message was targeted toward the negativity that has been building over the seemingly endless and unexpected delays. I believe the delays are actually to be expected and not a cause for concern. And for those who think that there is no such thing as those who actively work to kill Medinah you are naive."
almost as good as the "dog ate the jv"
awesome post Jet
I wonder if LP and GC are the master minds behind such deceit, or if they have help from the shills like decosta
paddy , in your own words: " I wouldn't be surprised if this deal goes bust"
you're not the only one paddy, most here have been around the block. I think what matters more than whether the deal goes bust or not, is whether if they can pump the stock up so everyone can dump it. After 2 failed deals in a row, many are just waiting to get out
great news guys!
"Spoke to LES today and was told next week will be very interesting. End of next week.
asked him about his meetings and he said that all meetings are about Alto and getting the info out to the shareholders at this point"
'I plain flat out asked him WILL the shareholders get a little Christmas CHEER from MDMN on the ALTO his response was YES for sure but more towards the end of next week is where things will really get interesting. I said that's great was there anything out there thats left and he said they were meeting all week on many issues and we're working on getting it to the shareholders"
Nice, shareholders will soon know what the issues are.
poor shareholders have nothing but LP and carrots. Next week will be "where's the carrot " week, and shareholders will receive a santa coals update on friday.
The Twitter Office has let everyone go home to start Christmas shopping since there doesn't seem to be any new rumors that suggest that some sort of pre-JV announcement update from Medinah is coming out this week as what was surmised originally. This is likely because everything is now scheduled to be wrapped up prior to Christmas so no need.
torturing shareholders appears to be fun for LP and crew
rick is "hopeful" for an update with more than just a year in review
sounds like we are down to hope and a prayer
even Rick agrees this year is off the table
and will settle for an update. That's all LP and crew need to know to safely write this year off, as shareholders prepare for another dud.
"At the very least, I believe we should get an update on the joint venture status before year's end. "
of course we'll get an update on the status. It will be something along the lines of " the schedule of the adl jv remains intact, with full disclosure in early 2014" Then everyone will jump or joy "yay, we have a deal!" ROFLMAO
Glad you have set your sites so low Rick, hopefully everyone follows suit. This gorilla has plenty of fattening up to, and now that we no longer believe LP has to be in chile to sign LOL, we can all relax for some santa coals, medinah style
where's waldo rick?
Two weeks ago you were telling us how LP's travels were so indicative of a jv finalization. But as I pointed out yesterday, waldo's travels are nowhere in sight. Funny how you changed your shareholder guidance accordingly, with no indication why :
"Whether Les needs to be in Chile or not is debatable now. I had once believed that he needed to be in Chile for the signatures, and he still very well may be, but I'm not as certain about that anymore. So if Les does leave for Chile, that would be a significant development with regards to wrapping up the JV; however, I no longer view it as the necessity towards closing or at least announcing the JV as I once did. Someone with better knowledge of the logistics please correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretation." HR
good thing there's some orchestrated buying coming in, will help shareholders deal with the santa coals (like every year we get a little x-mas cheer in the form of PPS appreciation)
paddy,
on mp you posted that you would not be surprised if this deal went bust. It wouldn't surprise me one bit either. And you were right about no jv this week, heck I'm pretty sure there is no jv this year. HEY HEY HEY, my point is for shareholders to temper their expectations, otherwise thinking that we are very close to finality will only lead to a lot of anxiety when the expectations fall short. Historically speaking, better to give it a couple of months, and be pleasantly surprised if they change their MO. Other than some hyped up update on the LDM, I'm pretty sure it's going to be santa coals for medinah shareholders again.
is this a rumour Rick? "as well as at least one Volcan representative who has been on the mountain, "
let me guess, you reed it on MP
funny because with an NDA in place, the jv finalization timeline is the only thing of importance to shareholders. What you do control is the guidance you offer, and we all saw what happened to your bell curve. But as all things medinah, we've gone from set dates to a prayer and a hope, for good things "coming soon". ROFLMAO
Rick, you avoided the question, unless of course you have nothing to back up your opinion other than hope. But if we look at the facts, there is no indication that we should be expecting a jv finalization soon, yet you say " all signs point to being very close to finality" . For the sake of avoiding shareholder anxiety, what signs are you referring to Rick? Baldy reading tea leaves is the only sign I see,and even he admitted those leaves may dry up. The way I see it, the company missed a deadline,and have given no guidance as to why, or what has happened since they originally put that deadline out. Historically speaking, the company always misses their deadlines, so far we are par for the course with previous JV's, regardless of any new CEO. Also, historically speaking, once they start missing deadlines, roadblocks start propping up (which we are seeing) ,and then they start piling up. HLS, money transfers, lawyers, holding out for ldm, issues with contract, issues with the subs, etc etc. We have only started the log jam process, and as decosta has eloquently reported, the complexity of finilizing a deal alone could put a serious dent on our timing expectations. I do not think decosta would have posted that essay on delays unless he was trying to pass on a message, would you? Now that is a sign that we can actually put our finger on. Then there is JJ returning shares. Do you think for a moment he would have returned them if a jv was very close? It is obvious he returned them for a reason,and the only reason I can think of is he feels guilty for not delivering anything in 2013. What's your take on it, as house cleaning does not explain anything. And what happened to waldo travelling? Why did we stop monitoring his activity after the "death in the family"? That is long over, yet now we don't care anymore? So as you see Rick, there are mostly signs pointing at a jv not finalizing any time soon. Whether you agree or not makes no difference, what matters is the guidance offered (bell curve anyone?) and it's accuracy. And my due dilly right now seems to be in accordance with what the company is or isn't doing (including the promoters), not with hope. No sense in getting shareholder's hopes up, only to have to reprimand their frustration when the guidance provided fails in all respects.
from HR " And it is a frustratingly slow process for shareholders to endure given the past two failures; however, all signs point to being very close to finality."
uhhm, what signs Rick? I hope you aren't referring to any rumours. Your last attempt at guessing we were close failed miserably,and at least then you had december 1st guidance to hope for. Now we have zero guidance, in fact just the opposite, JJ giving back shares is a sign that things are not looking good for this year. How else can anyone explain JJ returning shares? Good will? ROFLMAO The predicted roadblocks started,and now they will pile up. Decosta is already posting essays on the topic. For the sake of not playing with shareholders emotions, I think it would be best not to make any assumptions that we are "very close to finality". Unless of course you have taken a lesson from history, and can say that very close could be a matter of 3-4 months. And if history is anything to go by, that's how long they will drag things out at a minumum. Please elaborate Rick as to why, in light of decosta's essay on delays, you feel we are very close. The company has certainly not said anything official in this regard, so I am wondering why you are speaking on their behalf?
decosta says this year is off the table
you can read his lengthy explanation on yesterday's MP. I hope everyone has accepted this guidance. Hopefully JJ returning this years shares will make up for failing to deliver a jv in 2013