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So he was ambushed with a copy of a phone conversation and was asked to verify it. If I were him I would be very defensive and just start reading generic PR's to you as it sounded like he did... Next time pick up the phone. Sounds like the VP of Finance is burned for anyone else to talk to.
If you want to approach an exec this is not the way to do it...
-Mike
Are you telling me you only asked one questions and let him give you such a generic response? He didn’t even use the word common shareholder once!
"flow to the creditors and equity holders"
Pick up the dang phone again... Ask the tough questions, or at least ask more than one. I recommend you look at my post again and compare the responses you got to mine. On top of that I don’t see any quotes, did you really call anyone? Do you own any shares that might make your opinion bias?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28427274
-Mike
Talking about the people who bought on the pump around .05 or above.
Yes right now they are down...
Sorry I edited this post to correct it.. To early to be doing math I guess :)
-Mike
I posted this reply for another person.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28443163
I do care when people have got screwed on this pump and lost most of their money thinking they will be rich from a company in BK..
-Mike
You don’t understand this is Convertible Debenture. They can convert the debt into common stock if they want. Why would they want to? They would lose money if they did this!
Since the company is in BK they would have no reason to convert the debt into shares and the BK court will have the Debenture paid first over any shareholders.
-Mike
Looking at the numbers... Take a look I added everything up.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28398690
The BK court and BK laws do not protect common shareholders at all!
-Mike
Here are the numbers and my explanation of how I got them. I did take the time to add everything up and do DD
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28398690
One thing in clear the company is waiting on court to approve sale for EVERYTHING at $11M (except recent judgments and "certain patents"). If this sale is allowed it does not matter what the balance sheet says the assets were worth. Please read that above link in detail and you will understand where I am coming from.
The numbers look bad to me an on top of that even if the numbers were good the preferred shareholder get the first stab at the money and the companies shares are usually cancelled or reversed split into one share where you will get nothing.
-Mike
.<font color=red>DIOM - Summary & Whats Next...
Well I think these three post sum it up very well..
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28427274
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28430470
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28438084
In most instances, common equity is either cancelled or reverse split into ONE share. You also need to notice that it is never stated anywhere that common shareholders will get anything...
So even if lets say the balance sheet did show a profit which I don’t see that it will. Assuming DIOM does not cancel common equity or reverse split into ONE share then common shareholder might still get nothing as the preferred shareholders could get everything.
Plus the balance sheet we are all looking at is from 30-Sep-07. That is not accurate any more. We know that DIOM sold ALL of its assets (excluding judgment awards and "some patents") for $11M. That is far less then the vale of DIOM's assets on the balance sheet, looks like ANGO got a very nice discount.
So to sum everything up Instructmba:
1) Common shares will be cancelled or reverse split into ONE share
2) Or, DIOM after settling debt with all creditors will need to have more than estimated $7M to pay preferred shareholders before common shareholders get anything.
3) or, DIOM can sell this as a shell and if DIOM does not reverse split into ONE share then perhaps the new shell owner will give something to shareholders.
This stock was pumped and manipulated by some really hard. Its unfortunate... I am sure Renee might have something to add from experience with BK stocks and BK laws.
-Mike
You should read this post here http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28427274
This stock was a MOMO play based in inaccurate facts and/or wishful thinking that common shareholders would get some money. It was pumped and manipulated by some really hard and I feel for the people who bought in near the top and have lost almost 4X your money.
When I came here to talk about this unpopular subject that common shareholders will get nothing people instantly try to discredit you thinking that I am a hired gun to drive down the PPS, or that I might have a short position and need to cover, or I want the PPS to drop so I can buy cheap shares.
Truth is I don’t own any DIOM, don’t plan on owning any DIOM, and I am not short DIOM.
Perhaps VERITAS77 said it best "people on IHUB should/care for one another". This is why I came here to post because I saw what was going on here and came to shed some truth. If you think I am kicking you guys/gals when you are down please don’t feel that way this is just me getting defensive from everyone thinking I am the typical basher or shorter looking to make a quick buck. It does get frustrating at times...
GL
-Mike
You are a very observant poster. Thanks for the recommendation of checking out the other board. Do you promote this other board? At this time I am contempt with where I am.
We are all grownups and I think you should stick to letting each grownup make their own decisions about where they post. Sounds like you don’t want to hear the truth that the common stock in most instances is cancelled during BK and/or reorganization. Sounds to me you bought this stock on hype or your feelings. If you want to ignore the facts then perhaps you should put me on ignore as I will be talking them.
I am extremely happy Renee came on board too. Very knowledgeable poster!
-Mike
Well as you can imagine "individuals" are very different from Corporations. In a BK for an individual you don’t have to worry about cancelling common stock since the individual does not offer stock
Congrats on your BK experience with individuals!
-Mike
Read the 10Q you will see that the Diomed subsidiary in the UK is filing for administration.
Diomed’s U.K. subsidiary, Diomed Limited, also determined to, contemporaneously with the U.S. bankruptcy filings, file for Administration locally under the laws of the U.K.
If a corporation goes completely bankrupt, all of its assets are used to pay off as much of its debt as possible, and the lenders (bank and any bondholders) take bad debt losses on the rest; all stock of shareholders usually becomes worthless and is canceled. In a "Chapter 11" bankruptcy, the company continues in business, while its capital structure is "reorganized."
So yes both companies are still "up and at it as you say" during this BK. I even know the US company is operating and even bringing in some sales but DIOM is selling themselves and there will be no reorganization. That does not change the fact that common shareholders are last in line after the preferred shareholders.
Even if the subsidiary has an option to continue operating after the administration In most instances, the company's plan of reorganization will cancel the existing equity shares.
Common shareholder will get nothing.
To answer you question VERITAS77 why am I so happy??? Well perhaps because I do not own any DIOM :)
-Mike
.<font color=red>Corporate Bankruptcy - What every investor needs to know...
Here is a section that is extremely helpful from the SEC site and also backs up what Renee and myself have stated:
"Investors should be cautious when buying common stock of companies in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. It is extremely risky and is likely to lead to financial loss. Although a company may emerge from bankruptcy as a viable entity, generally, the creditors and the bondholders become the new owners of the shares. In most instances, the company's plan of reorganization will cancel the existing equity shares. This happens in bankruptcy cases because secured and unsecured creditors are paid from the company's assets before common stockholders. And in situations where shareholders do participate in the plan, their shares are usually subject to substantial dilution."
To read more about corporate bankruptcy I recommend reading this page on the SEC's website http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/bankrupt.htm
-Mike
Your independent opinion on DIOM post is excellent. Your knowledge about bankruptcy is far superior. Thanks for the wonderful post!
I also agree that every reader should read or at least have a brief overview of the Chapter 11 BK Laws for public Securities.
Membermarked!
-Mike
You are under no obligation to believe my post is true nor do I have to convince or guarantee anything to you.
If you want to know where the info is from then send a PM with your email... If you don’t want to or can’t then pipe down.
-Mike
Hard to give a link for a phone conversation. lol
-Mike
LOL, don’t get your feathers all flustered.
PM me your email I dont have a membership to send PM's
-Mike
.<font color=red>Diomed - Whats next?
==========================================================
Will share holders get any proceeds from the asset sales for the BK?
..."We need to get more information and see what sales the court will approve. We have to go down the list we have secured creditors we need to pay, and then we have preferred share holders and then common shareholders. Right now I do not know how much common shareholders will get, if anything at all"...
You just received large settlement from the patent litigation. I did not see this on the last balance sheet so you may be in the green and have some money for the common shareholders now right?
..."We are still operating the business and bringing in some sales and again we need to see what happens with the sale of our assets, its unfortunate and I am sorry it happened this way. I do not know how much common shareholders will get, if anything at all"...
The pending sale of assets is that for everything excluding the judgments?
"Yes and excluding some patents"
The stock price really dropped should a stock holder hold onto their shares in hope that they will get any money from the BK?
..."Is ridicules how much the stock dropped I can’t believe it. You know I really can’t tell you what to do. We might be able to sell this as a shell and usually the company buying the shell will, you know, give the share holders something."
So the common share holders shares may not be completely worthless then?
..."Companies like to buy public shells we will try to sell it"
==========================================================
-Mike
*I do not own any shares in this company. I wrote these quotes to the best of my ability.
LOL, a basher with marks... Your a funny guy or girl...
Again you insist on personal attacks and provide no supporting facts. DIOM is in the red. Shareholders are probably still unloading on new buyers.
Just be happy you didn’t own DIOM when it was at half a buck. If it looks like a pump, smells like a pump, then it’s probably a pump!
-Mike
.<font color=red>Diomed's vice president of finance said it best
"We need to make sure that we're getting the best offer we can for the creditors," Christopher J. Geberth, Diomed's vice president of finance, told Dow Jones Newswires (emphasis added)
-Mike
.<font color=red>Look at all the Creditors!!! WOW!
List of Creditors 43 minutes ago from Yahoo board posted by kapt_kos
AFCO PREMIUM CREDIT LLC
260 FRANKLIN ST., SUITE 310
BOSTON, MA 02110 (cr)
ANNE-LOUISE LORD
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
BROOKSTONEFIVE, INC.
4263 FOREST RIDGE DRIVE
RICHFIELD, OH 44286 (cr)
CARY PAULETTE
2613 SIR TURQUIN LANE
LEWISVILLE, TX 75056 (cr)
CATHERINE MORRIS
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
CHRIS ESTES
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
CHRISTOPHER J. GEBERTH
3 SAGE ROAD
GEORGETOWN, MA 01833 (cr)
CRANSHIRE CAPITAL, L.P.
ATTN: MITCHELL KOPIN
3100 DUNDEE ROAD, SUITE 703
NORTHBROOK, IL 60062 (cr)
DAN STEMPEL
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
DAVID B. SWANK
4263 FOREST RIDGE DRIVE
RICHFIELD, OH 44286 (cr)
DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
DR. CARLOS FERNANDEZ
POLICLINICA METROPOLITANA S-2
CALLE A-1
URB. CAURIMARECARACAS
VENEZUALA (cr)
DR. MOISES ROIZENTAL
POLICLINICA METROPOLITANA S-2
CALLE A-1
URB. CAURIMARECARACAS
VENEZUALA (cr)
HERCULES TECHNOLOGY GROWTH CAPITAL, INC.
LEGAL DEPARTMENT
ATTN: CLO AND R. BRYAN JADOT
400 HAMILTON AVENUE, SUITE 310
PALO ALTO, CA 94301 (cr)
IROQUOIS CAPITAL LP
ATTN: JOSHUA SILVERMAN
641 LEXINGTON AVENUE, 26TH FLOOR
NEW YORK, NY 10022 (cr)
JAMES A. WYLIE
10 COMSTOCK COURT
RIDGEFIELD, CT 06877 (cr)
JEFFERIES & COMPANY, INC.
BAY COLONY CORPORATE CENTER
1050 WINTER STREET, SUITE 2400
WALTHAM, MA 02451 (cr)
JOHN WELCH
48 LAKESHORE DRIVE
WAYLAND, MA 01778 (cr)
JULIE FINN
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
LORD & BENOIT LLC
1 WEST BOYLSTON STREET
WORCESTER, MA 01605 (cr)
LORD & BENOIT LLC
1 WEST BOYLSON ST.
WORCESTER, MA 01605 (cr)
MARIA DIAZ
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
PAUL GRAFHAM (C/O DIOMED, LTD.)
BEACH DRIVE, BUILDING 2000
CAMBRIDGE RESEARCH PARK
WATERBEACH CAMBRIDGE CB25 9TE
UNITED KINGDOM (cr)
PHIL HUGHES
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
PORTSIDE GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITY FUND
C/O RAMIUS CAPTIAL GROUP LLC
ATTN: JEFF SMITH
666 THIRD AVENUE, 26TH FLOOR
NEW YORK, NY 10017 (cr)
ROCKMORE INVESTMENT MASTER FUND LTD.
C/O ROCKMORE CAPITAL LLC
ATTN: ANYA SIGALOW
150 E. 58TH STREET, 28TH FLOOR
NEW YORK, NY 10155 (cr)
SAM WADE
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
SCOTT SCHOONOVER
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
STACY WILLIAMS
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
TONY SUTTON
C/O DIOMED, INC.
ONE DUNDEE PARK
ANDOVER, MA 01810 (cr)
WILLIAM D. ALLAN (C/O DIOMED, LTD.)
BEACH DRIVE, BUILDING 2000
CAMBRIDGE RESEARCH PARK
WATERBEACH CAMBRIDGE CB25 9TE
UNITED KINGDOM
You didn’t do that...?
If the company has about $7 million as you claim then why are they in bankruptcy? Why not withdrawal the BK petition??
How often do you see companies with millions of dollars of green file for BK? LOL...
DIOM is in the red
-Mike
.<font color=green>You cant add proceeds from selling assets to the assets... "Estimated Assets = $24.2 M + auction" This is inaccurate logic
Your logic assumes that ANGO purchased DIOM assets dollar for dollar or 100% of the actual value on the books. ANGO probably got a nice discount since DIOM is in BK. Plus it appears you don’t know what current assets are. You need to look this up!
Any one else want to disagree with some actual valid numbers and logic?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28398690
-Mike
LOL that’s just because of the spread! If any one person makes a sale you will be back to the opening price of 0.015! No green!
The bid and ask is 0.015 and 0.018. So automatically as soon as you put money into DIOM you can only sell it and get back 83% of your cash... Ouch! Sounds like a big spread to me!
-Mike
Another post not supported by any facts at all. Nice try
on the pumping...
DIOM is in the red, read the numbers
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28398690
-Mike
looznbux: I already factored in the "intellectual property" a.k.a. "Intangible Assets" a.k.a patents. They are still in the red!
Intangible Assets are only worth $3.652M on the balance sheet. Diom said it only was going to keep "certain patents" so we know we have less than $3.652M in Intangible Assets now.
Again this was accounted for in my post. I gave DIOM the benefit of the doubt and assumed DIOM still had 100% of the $3.652M and you see they still are in the red.
-Mike
.<font color=red>DIOM is in the RED!
Why is it you resort to attacking my character instead of proving me wrong? I added up all the numbers and DIOM is in the RED. Here see this post below
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28398690
-Mike
VERITAS77, morcash, secolton, Smendt___
Tell me these numbers are not reasonable? This is information straight from the balance sheet. Assets and liabilities do no appear out of thin air.
I am not pumping, bashing, or insulating your inelegance but I do challenge what everyone thinks is going on here. You know what, I hope I am wrong and you make a killing. The numbers simply do not add up. If they did add up then I might buy. Plus if you convince this skeptic then I am sure others might also be convinced...
This just looks like a MOMO or pump with MM and or shareholders unloading on the unfortunate who bought into this and now the price is back to low...
-Mike
.<font color=red>DIOM assets, Liabilities, shareholder, etc____
morcash: Your math seems rather odd to me. Let me have a stab at it
=============
==Liabilities:
$17.475M = as of 30-Sep-07 (could be higher now!)
$0.5M = add prepayment penalty (3%) and default interest on $5M loan
==================
==Current Assets:
$16.472M = as of 30-Sep-07 ($7.4M cash)
$7M = ANGO settlement
$3.6M = Vasc Solutions settlement
==Subtract Operating cost from Assets
$7M = business as usual burn rate for 2Q's (assume $3.5M per Q before BK)
$1M = Assume 1Q reduced burn rate (during BK)
$?? = Net Receivables never Received/write off (who knows has to be less than $3M but lets not add it since we don’t know?)
==============
==============
Estimated Total Liabilities = $17.975
Estimated Assets = $19.072
IF, and I say a huge *IF* DIOM sells all its current assets at the value on the balance sheet then you looking at a possibility of $1.097M going to PREFERED stock holders (not common holders). common shareholders are left with nothing.
I have never seen current assets sold at the actual value. During a BK assets are normally sold at a nice discount or "Fire sale" prices. Even if DIOM sold all its assets with only a 10% discount then the value would be less than the liabilities and you get no money. shareholders are left with nothing.
From the most recent PR it looks like DIOM sold its assets (except "certain patents") for $11M. Patents are "Intangible Assets" and without knowing which ones they sold or how many lets assume they still own 100% of the $3.652M on the balance sheet ("Intangible Assets").
This looks to me like the most the company can get for its assets is $11M + $3.652M = $14.652M. This is less than the total debt and common shareholders are left with nothing. Remember I am giving DIOM the benefit of the doubt. Thais means that DIOM will sell its assets at a 23% discount.
I think I am being extremely fair and reasonable in this logic. Does any one disagree? I do not see a single situation where DIOM come out green. If they were green then they might consider withdrawing the BK petition right?
-Mike
Smendt: My point is we are looking at a balance sheet from 30-Sep-07 and the company does burn an average of 3M to 4M per quarter.
The company just filed for BK on March 14, 2008. So your right they might be spending less NOW in BK but they still probably already spent $6M to $8M for operating the two quarters since 30-Sep-07.
Plus your right we need to add in the operating expenses for the company while in BK but should be much less now you would hope.
-Mike
.<font color=green>Diomed intends to continue to operate its U.S. business as a “debtor-in-possession”
"the debtor in possession may be able to keep the property by paying the creditor the fair market value, as opposed to the contract price. This is often the case where the property is a personal vehicle which has depreciated in value since the time of the purchase, and which the debtor needs in order to be able to find or continue employment to pay off his debts."
You clearly do not know what "continue to operate" as “debtor-in-possession” means. DIOM under this circumstance should not need any loans to sell its asserts as they are acting as "debtor-in-possession".
So ANGO has no problem loaning money to DIOM as (Debtor-In-Possession) DIP financing is unique from other financing methods in that it usually has priority over existing debt, equity and other claims.
I have done my own due diligence.. Any other nonsense you would like to challenge?
-Mike
.<font color=red>I like how you post links to SEC filings when I ask you "Who told you that DIOM was going to pay share holders $5M - $10M (0.16- 0.33 per share)??"
Have you looked at the most recent balance sheet from 30-Sep-07?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=DIOM.PK
How is selling assets to ANGO at about a 50% discount is good???
I know you are probably going to rebuttal by saying well DIOM didn’t sell all of its assets the PR said they still have some patents. The PR specifically states "as well as certain patents". Patents will be listed on the balance sheet as "Intangible Assets" or $3.652M total. We don’t know how many they sold and how much the ones we still have left are worth. So we know the patents have to be worth less then $3.652M as they will only have “certain patents” left
If you are going to continue to pump DIOM and manipulate suckers to buy into this company in bankruptcy then please support your efforts with numbers. Go ahead and add everything up then tell us what numbers you get. I did that on 4/7 and this is what I got http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28274921
When I wrote that post adding up all the numbers I did not know DIOM was going to sell its assets at about 50% discount and I also assumed VASC was going to settle with DIOM for $5M and they settled for less ($3.586 million). So now I will say the company looks worse off than it did before.
Bottom line is it looks like DIOM has fewer current assets than it does liabilities. DIOM even needs a borrow money to sell its assets at a discount.
-Mike
.<font color=green>I have not seen any proof that my numbers are inaccurate. I am looking at public numbers from the balance sheets on Yahoo and the recent PR's. I never stated that the $8M of US assets included the '777' patent judgments.
Have you even looked at the balance sheet? What do you see that I am apparently missing???
Who told you that DIOM was going to pay share holders $5M - $10M (0.16- 0.33 per share)??
Why does DIOM need another LOAN just to sell its assets it has at fire sale prices??
-Mike
.<font color=red>You see how bad ANGO wants DIOM's assets at this huge 50% discount?
ANGO will even LOAN DIOM $1.3 million! for the sale to complete. Think about it, if DIOM had enough money then why the heck would it need another LOAN just to sell its assets it has at fire sale prices?
I bet no one can answer that question... Or no one wants to answer that question
-Mike
Look at today’s PR I see DIOM is selling about $15.732 Million worth of assets to AngioDynamics for only $8 Million.
They are selling these assets at about a 50% discount. Thats what I call a fire sale. Yes your right the '777' patent are not apart of the sale.
All I see here is people trying to get others excited about how DIOM is getting $8M... YAY! Then people start to thing well the share holders must be getting some of this moeny. Who says?
Truth is DIOM's balance sheet was bad before and they are in bankruptcy. Now their assets are being sold at a 50% discount. How in the world does anyone consider this good news? Has anyone even looked at the balance sheet???
-Mike
.<font color=red>Assets being sold at fire sale prices... Does anyone really think this is good news? Or do you want more suckers to get sucked into this bankruptcy?
"[DIOM] entered into an asset purchase agreement with AngioDynamics, Inc. for the sale of Diomed's U.S. operations for a cash purchase price of $8 million"
So looking at the most recent balance sheet on yahoo it looks like DIOM is selling about $15.732 Million worth of assets to AngioDynamics for only $8 Million.
Based on this news I would revise my numbers down. So I said it looks like they were in the red before and now I say they are in the super red! Look at the balance sheet and the cash burn rate. The last balance sheet we have from DIOM has is from 30-Sep-07.
Don’t forget the company a history of burning on average 3M to 4M per quarter and it has been over 2 full quarters since the last balance sheet 30-Sep-07. Its simple math...
-Mike
Then please fill everyone in... What is missing from my post here http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28274921
Where did anyone here that "at least 1.5M" would be distributed to shareholders? I do not see that anywhere... I dont think anyone can find this.
-Mike
Where did I get this info?? From DIOM's own SEC filings
"Diomed intends to continue to operate its U.S. business as a “debtor-in-possession” under the jurisdiction of the Court and in accordance with the applicable provisions of the Bankruptcy Code and orders of the Court, pending completion of the sale of its assets to Biolitec AG and other parties."
The company did not just stop and drop everything. They are still going to "continue to operate" and rack up debt while some people hold on to shares in hope that the company is not really in debt as they file for bankruptcy.
http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=5799129-814-7326&type=sect&dcn=0001144204-08-015251
This might be a good MOMO play but other than that it does not look good to me...
-Mike
Where will they get this money from to pay shareholders? The company is in debt and they are in the middle of a bankruptcy.
Any financial figures you are looking at are over two quarters old and the company burns about $3M to $4M per quarter. I do not see a dime that the company has to distribute to share holders. How many quarters will it take to sell its current assets to pay off its debts that are building quickly with high interest?
In the mean time I am sure the management is getting paid to run the company.
Look at my post #424 http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=28274921
-Mike