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You can say that again!
SteveF: OS is not 69m, and I think you know that. But even if you truly believe it I'm mistaken or lying, you will soon be proven wrong anyway.
Oddly, when I first invested in JBII (then TRTN) back in August, I could have sworn there were something like 58m OS.
And yet since then JBI has raised money through a PIPE, acquired 2 profitable companies, paid off over all outstanding debt, and ..not only did I not get diluted, but the share price as risen 500% and the OS count had dropped!!
Using jj, Steve and Rev's logic (apologies if I left anyone out), that is simply not possible.
Maybe I need to tap my ruby shoes together...
S.
The media credits exist for the sole purpose of inflating the balance sheet. The PPS is way overvalued here for a company with $13.5 million in assets. It's ludicrously over-valued for a company with only $3.5 million in assets.
Good idea Mr. ESP.
Sadly, about 7000 posts ago I offered to collect a list of those questions for the next Q&A call, but I guess it got buried in the mess of useless banter since then.
I'll put it on the list anyway.
Stu
So remove them. Pretend they aren't on the books at all. JBI still has assets of $3.5m is cash, 3 factories, a fuel-blending site soon, offices in 5+ locations, etc.
No debt.
Profitable in 3 distinct business lines.
Huge growth potential.
Do these media credits really cause all this panic, or are you looking to make a fuss because you are otherwise motivated?
I partly disagree. PR's are for the press, true. But the are also for shareholders, especially for a company as young as JBI and positioned where they are.
The only formal or official confirmation we shareholders get is from the CEO's Facebook posts, e-mails or phone calls to the company (very few people here bother) and press releases.
If JBI had not issued a single press release since last June, there is no way the PPS would be what it is today.
Also, as a public company, they are required by law to PR "material" events before they can discuss them in public.
When the mainstream press catches on, each PR will generate quite some buzz I imagine.
Stu
Anyone can obtain the same "permits" to operate their company as long as you follow the rules laid out by the state.
WHAM!!! Nice bust Z!
Putting out press releases only work if they generate good press. So far, these have failed.
Adman, I think there is already SO much transparency on this company that for the tiny little bits that remain fuzzy we are complaining that not enough is known about what's going on.
I don't really think that JBI needs to share with the world what it plans to use the media credits for. Certainly not a breakdown and timeline anyway.
I cannot cite an example of another publicly-traded company that gives access to such information.
I don't think so much "it's a secret" as they just either don't have it all earmarked yet and/or don't really feel they need to share this information with the world.
We don't need to know where the $3.5m in cash will be spent either, and I'm quite happy to let the people running the company and various business units spend it where and when they see fit, and then I'll just see it show-up in a 10Q later on down the road.
If you're looking for red flags, the value-of and plans-for the media credits seems to be a bit of a non-starter.
S.
Now hang on a sec there Z, how could JBI possibly have used $200k worth of these credits if they're not worth anything??
Smells fishy to me.. ROFL
10 red flags? OK, let's say the credits are worth 0.
$3.5m in cash, zero debt, 3 profitable operating companies, a 4th one in the works.
The fifth one: P2O, about to launch.
How does the issue of media credits matter any?
As Wess said, you fail to see the forest for the trees my friend.
S.
Call for Q&A:
All, if you recall at the end of the call last weekend, John apologized that there was no Q&A session like the previous time. However he said that as soon as he was back he'd announce the date/time of a follow-up Q&A call.
In preparation for that, I suggest we all start thinking about the outstanding questions we all have so that we can get them to him in an orderly fashion.
Clearly this is also somewhat an olive branch offered to the doubters, and the opportunity for them to put their questions DIRECTLY to the management of the company.
So I suggest, as Zardiw did for the last CC back in November, you fire your questions up to this board, using the topic JBI Q&A. I will post-back periodically the list for all to see.
Stu
Why would Islechem be working to "further improve P2O's effeciency if they had not already proven that the process works?
IMO, when IsleChem has completed validation, it will be made public in a big way. Remember the term "bragging rights" JB used to describe what this would bring them? Well I think now more is riding on it than before.
Clearly there are a lot very negative people here trying to instill fear and uncertainty in order to get the stock to drop. Validation should kill-off half of them I suppose (don't underestimate the perseverance of a person who shorted this stock), and JB doesn't seem to release only mediocre ho-hum PRs.
The blitz of PRs last week did not include the validation -- that one is clearly still coming.
If I had more cash.. I'd be buying-up more of JBII at these prices, because within a few months from now it will be painful to think of the position you could have had in JBII before uplisting/validation/p2o-revenue came.
Stu
Wess, perhaps this topic is a good one for your FAQ! Seems to be quite the pressing question for some.
Stu
Glad to help.
Just imagine I'm off by 50% regarding per-site profit, and Florida and NY only get up 40 sites combined and they simply sell it to the refineries after all for $70 / barrel. With a P/E of 50, that'd still be a $22 share price.
That doesn't count any revenue from Pak-It, Javaco, or Data Recovery either.
Hold onto your pants when P2O revenue shows up on a 10Q Mr. Diamond, as this is the best stock to own in 2010 on any exchange!
Stu
You normally don't need to issue a PR for what most primates can figure out for themselves. It'd just be a waste of money.
Yes, sorry.. of course that's not all for JBI. I've run these numbers three-dozen times I should know them all by heart now.
The initial communication about this was that they would do a JV with another party who would poney-up the $400k for 2 processors (price included installation and maintenance/support), and "net revenue" would be split 65/35 (65 going to JBI). Net revenue meant oil-sold minus operational cost to run the plant.
Shortly after communicating that, they'd tightened it up a bit and mentioned as much as a 90/10 split (90 for JBI) since in some cases they would provide the plastic supply AND arrange for the fuel-pickup, which left little to do for a JV partner. On JB's Facebook page you'll find his thoughts about how to split it.
So if you go with the 65/35 split, that would give JBI 65% of $1.9m, or $1.2m in net revenue. I believe $1m (i.e. after taxes profit) is the number you'll find in EP's infamous spreadsheet. And again, they're fairly conservative.
Stu
SteveF, the link was provided right under your eyes a few hours ago. Somebody posted a summary of many of JB's past quotes including from Facebook, and that one was in there.
Sorry, so it will NET $1.9m (after you deduct the costs) in revenue.
From that you have to take into consideration that in comes cases they get paid to take waste plastic away, and with a fuel-blending site they'll sell it for far more than $70/barrel (the price refineries have agreed to buy it at). Also, if feedstock is in abundant supply, you could realistically (IMO) get 2x the daily yield from a single twin-processor site.
Stu
Mr. Diamond, this has been covered a lot in the past -- I know there is a massive amount of messages on this board, so here's a summary:
JB has stated oil from plastic costs about $10/barrel to produce, which includes all the staff to operate the site (one past post details what it covers, and it seems very conservative). A site hosts 2 10MT processors, and can do (minimum) one batch each / day = 20 tons (batch takes < 2 hours).
That means each site produces 126 barrels of oil per day. This oil fetches WTI-$3 / barrel, or roughly $70.
So each site will gross $2.2m / year (assuming 260 working days / year) at current oil prices.
Of course a processor can do more than a batch per day, even considering cleaning, maintenance, and down-time. Oil prices can rise or drop too. But that's the general math.
Stu
Funny, I was doing the opposite: trying to warn people it's going to surge! Do you see it now? 20 PR's for good reason, and not a single employee, mgmt team member or board member is selling!
I agree. I'd even argue that #1 and #2 won't be enough for the non-believers.
The content of #1 may never be public domain, and if it is.. it won't certify "oil was produced at a cost of $10/barrel including staff, feedstock transportation, disposal of solid waste", etc.
Envion (and at least a half-dozen other companies) has #2 but they have no revenue.
But "long" means holding on for #3. In my opinion, that's coming in Q2.
Stu
Granted EP.. but if the "tellers" did a good job convincing them to get in around $4, then hopefully the "listeners" understood the benefit of holding this stock for the long-term.
I know from experience -- a direct family member of mine got in pretty heavy at $7.20 based on my DD and word. He's annoyed it's down, but not worried per-se.
Validation will bring vindication which will increase valuation!
Stu
How can they be long on JBI when they bought in at $4 and are getting nervous now? What in God's name did they buy for, and how can they consider themselves long if they worry about a dip before any real revenue comes in?
Strange...
It's only a battle if you're not long. What the stock does between today and P2O revenue is of no consequence to those waiting for triple digits!
s.
My friend, I have a lot more than $100k riding on JBI.
And I have never seen proof that P2O works.
But man have I ever spent lots of my spare time doing DD on P2O technology in general, and on this company.
Come to think of it, I find the enormous activity being built-up around P2O as far better proof that it works than any third-party technical analysis could bring. Chances are only a chemist would understand it anyway.
But when you look at what's at stake here (personal fortunes of JB, Sousa, Heddle, board members, exchange uplisting, SEC violation, criminal investigations for the CEO, a few hundred k of deposits for Florida sites, a fuel-blending facility, a few factories, acquisitions of THREE profitable business (all of which were bought for their added-value to P2O), it's FAR better proof that P2O works than a document.
But the real proof will be in the revenue generation. I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer for that though.
S.
Why can't you just wait for the proof like most people? Why do you need it NOW? I don't have it now. Wess doesn't have it now. Maybe even Sousa doesn't have it either. But we're all slurping up shares of JBI anyway... why do you think that is?
AGM on April 24 in Niagara Falls. Hope to see you there.
S.
SteveF said:
I believe those PR's were just a pump to create enough liquidity for insiders and front-loaders to dump before those shares hit the market.
SteveF, what questions are you referring to? Other than your silly questions, I don't find this to be true. Oh yeah.. there was that one about the address of the fuel-blending site.
You are saying that the PR blitz was an attempt to pump up the stock price so that somebody "can escape this stock" ? Do you care to be more specific? Do you have a precise idea of who may be doing that? The same people that issued the PRs I suppose..
I suggest you contact the SEC quickly so that they can take action. That's illegal.
Keep us posted.
Nice Z... so it would therefore take almost 2 years to be able to "unload" 3.5 million shares given that we now have only 46m outstanding & issued.
I don't see that causing much impact
Stu
SteveF, you just said:
Surely you agree that the word of an anonymous message board poster is not enough in this circumstance.
I have no doubt those 3.5 million dilutitive shares will be bought when they hit the market next week. The only question is how badly will it kill the PPS. $2? $1?.
"It's my obligation to back-up anything this company says in a PR. If I can't, then the regulatory agencies would have a field day with me. When we say somethign in a PR, it's real -- there's no fluff and no nonsense. It also goes through our securities lawyers for vetting."
John Bordynuik on Feb 13, 2010
"It's my obligation to back-up anything this company says in a PR. If I can't, then the regulatory agencies would have a field day with me. When we say somethign in a PR, it's real -- there's no fluff and no nonsense. It also goes through our securities lawyers for vetting."
Yes, I believe P2O is its own operating entity, and arguably it's generated some income too since all those test with IsleChem must have produced thousands of litres of oil... which .. I guess they've sold or will sell.
Anyway, I think I recall once reading/seeing that P2O is a separate legal entity. Wess or rpg101 may know more!?
But it was not my intention to infer anything from the audiocast, merely to transcribe what was said.
Please forgive me for mis-leading or incorrect information... it's either sloppiness/laziness on my part, or a misunderstanding.
Disclaimer: My slides do not constitute a formal presentation from JBI in any way -- merely an independent representation of what was said.
Stu
Sorry Wess.. I didn't cover the BOD member's individual comments .. not that they weren't "salient".. but mostly in the interest of time!
Congrats on the appointment!
Stu
Conf Call Summary
Apologies if this is a repost -- I haven't read through all the posts since Friday night.
Here is my take on the salient points from the conf call -- in the absence of any slides I took it upon myself to summarize what was said. Sorry for the typo's and name misspellings, if any:
-----
INTRO AND PROGRESS TO DATE (speaker: John Bordynuik)
. in 2009 acquired an public shell company with no operating business
. had 63m issued & outstanding shares
. converted to an operating company with 46m issued & outstanding shares
. > $3m cash
. several operating entities
. significant revenues
. operating entities:
. tape & data migration
. Pak-It
. Javaco
. P2O
. factories in NY and PA
. large blending facility
. warehouse in OH
. offices in Mexico, Clearwater FL, Cambridge MA
. executed agreements with Rick Heddle & Al Sousa for ship & land-based P2O activities, including P2O licencing
. IsleChem (state-certified lab) is working with JBI on P2O validation and fine-tuning
. executed LOI for air handling company to assist with Pak-It and medical waste
. paid off ~$7m in debt (are now debt-free)
. completed successful PIPE
. created a value-based mgmt team
. established an independant board of directors comprised of shareholders
. built an excellent innovating engineering team, including chemsists for P2O & Pak-It
. expanded Pak-It's orig. bus plan
. massive direct-to-retail campaign
launch
. automating Pak-It operations (10x production increase)
. all this, in only 9 months!
VISION:
. (from website) ground-breaking technology company founded on the principles of integrity, transparency and responsibility, benefiting mankind and future generations,
. P2O objective: convert 10% of all waste plastic into useable energy --> "recycling 2.0"
. getting overwhelming assistance by regular people and shareholders
KEYS TO SUCCESS:
. open communication & transparent with shareholders
. crowd-sourcing: harness power of collective intelligence of JBI shareholders
. provides access to valuable experience
. access to resources otherwise prohibitively expensive (e.g. fuel-blending site?)
. many investors help with their spare time: increase investment value & help environment
. retired investors working on: machining, welding, electrical, building, etc
. highly experienced & value-based management team: no pay without success
Information is released as quickly as legally possibly, JB will push for less expensive methods of dissemniation information.
KEY DIFFERENTIATORS:
. IPO was not exit strategy
. funds don't control the board
. focus on long-term profitibility, not short-term earnings
. building a "value-based company"
RECENT MATERIAL EVENTS
. all of yesterday PRs were executed in the 2 days leading up to this conf call
. result of collaboration of 30+ people and several law firms and self-imposed deadlines
. all underwent appropriate due-dilligence before publication
. more "waves" like this weekend to come in the future
. this wave is proof we have the right team and right shareholders to take JBI to the next level
P2O GROWTH TEAM
. Geoff Webber, Robert Shoemaker, Al Sousa, Mike Kaplanis, Dick H., Linda Burr
. all are assisting with licence agreements, ADA agreements, processing applications
PAK-IT CANADA
. new sales team led by Bob M.
. operations managed by Katie
"Bold moves get noticed. They make history, the motivate staff, create momentum, stir-up a storm, bring everything to a critical mass that converts a huge challenging problem into a big success.
It also gets eyes on our products and gets eyes on our stock without using paid stock promoters. And it removes barriers in our business plan."
"It's my obligation to back-up anything this company says in a PR. If I can't, then the regulatory agencies would have a field day with me. When we say somethign in a PR, it's real -- there's no fluff and no nonsense. It also goes through our securities lawyers for vetting."
"You'll know as soon as I do -- this is important to all of us."