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I don't do secretarial work.
Does that mean that JBI was highly credible from $1 to $7? Like other misguided souls, you base your investment decision on the shape of a chart.
Good luck with that.
uh, it's in the AGM video. You and laurap need to take the time to watch it.
Maybe you can get together with Rev, jj, and a few others, make some popcorn, and watch it together!
I guess I'd be disappointed if I didn't understand the delays. Back then I had no appreciation for the process of getting everything ready: installation, permits, etc.
But I see now that 6 months was unreasonable. I'll be disappointed if they're not running and hand full of processors full-time by the year's end. And yes, of course.. you can mark this post if you like.
what can I say .. I love bubble baths Maybe the Chinese will love it?
No, I was not serious. But that is not to say the the Pak-It line of products isn't excellent. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Seneca and the entire Pak-It team.
Hey, great post! What a great business model eh?
Too bad we have quite a number of people getting their panties in a was because they can't wait.
yes, they covered the Pak-It update and increased capacity at the AGM. There is video available on the website.
I thought you did extensive research on JBI? Didn't you watch the AMG video? It's a good place for beginners.
"John needs to learn how to underpromise and over deliver"
The smart money is betting that this is indeed what he's doing now -- heads down execution without any buzz.
The dumb money thinks he's afraid to answer questions and is hiding something.
"not a good thing for publicly traded companies putting all their eggs in one basket."
Ha, well sure, but it's a nice basket to have! Pak-It, Javaco, and Tape Recovery are nice side businesses to have, and may support the stock down at these levels, but the upside is indeed virtually all in the P2O basket.
"john bordynuik has zero contracts to sell his plastic to oil, correct?"
I don't know. Why do you think they need a contract to sell it? Can't they just sell at the spot price? Maybe they don't even want to sell the raw output... perhaps they will refine it themselves and sell the final product at the pump?
Overhyped? Yes, certainly.
Underdelivered? Perhaps, so far. But this story has much to be played out yet.
JBI has not yet failed to deliver anything. Things are taking longer than initially stated, sure, but that doesn't mean they won't happen:
. DEC permits
. P2O production in NY
. P2O FL sites
. P2O Canada, Latin America, Europe
. P2O Marine
. Pak-It retail
Nothing has transpired that makes these things less likely.
These are not fundamental changes. Fundamental changes would be:
. price of oil dropping < $40/bbl
. cost to produce via P2O turns out to be > $20/bbl
. plastic waste statistics were false
. process pollutes like crazy
. output fuel quality is terrible
. entire thing turns out to be a hoax
None of these things has changed in the past 6 months. The stock price dropping is hardly an argument to prove that P2O doesn't work. Just like its rise to $7 was no proof that P2O did work.
And the only investors that need to worry about the share price drop from $7 are the ones who get out today. Why would an "investor" do that.. unless they invested in a company they don't believe in?
Well, guilty by association (with other OTC stocks) may be how you choose to (or not to) invest, but it's not good enough for me. I trust my DD, the market research I've done, and my instinct on the integrity and intelligence of the management team. They all tell me that the only thing in common with JBI and "typical penny stock" is the exchange they trade on and the hype & bashing they attract.
"and right now JBII+E looks like a typical penny stock to me"
Looks like, perhaps. But I haven't chosen to invest in JBI because of how the stock "looks".
THAT is funny. LOL
(yes, I'm long on JBIIE and I have a sense of humour)
Testing? You mean like "ASTM certification" of the output?
Check!
Thanks for coming out Steve.
Indeed. I have read countless famous quotes by successful investors over the years, and the most common theme among them is that investing requires patience. It's a pitty if we lost some shareholders in the past weeks due to impatience. After all, despite the banter on this board, nothing has fundamentally changed with the Plastic2Oil story and its potential.
Patience will be rewarded.
Ty
"That requires a buyer and supplier of 20 tons of feedstock per day (not to mention somewhere to store the output and feedstock stockpile)."
Gosh, good thing you're here to point that out! I'm sure they'd have completely forgotten that. LOL
Marked. Now I believe in Santa Claus. Ho ho ho.
Sorry Rik, intended for the original sinner
Except we're talking about P2O operational costs, not internal P&L and asset valuation.
Still waiting for your math on that.. the proof that P2O cannot be done profitably.
Cool, lucky me!
So how about some math that shows that this process cannot be profitable? Can we see it?
Thanks in advance.
Nope, not getting out. Longs are still here. It's why it's called being "long".
"this process may not even make any money"
LOL, yeah.. that makes great sense. That's why they bought a fuel-blending site, are seeking permits for NY operations, have raised funds for rollout, have signed an ADA for 45 sites in Florida, retained a top-tier auditor, visited and applied to list on the NASDAQ, and talked about it for over an hour at their AGM in front of over 400 people. All for something that won't make money.
If you want to prove your point, why don't you provide some math? What does the rent of a warehouse cost with room for fuel and plastic storage? What do 2-3 blue-collar workers cost? What about insurance? And then divide all that by 2800-5000 barrels (MINIMUM) per month, and what do you get?
$10/bbl is high. But don't take my word for it. Wait until they're operational and you will see for yourself.
I think you're confusing "waste plastic" with "recyclable plastic", which is a common mistake but an important one to clarify.
For example, I know of many plastic recycling companies in the UK, France, and Spain who sell plastic to China -- lots of it. And they are very interested in P2O as it compliments their business. Yes, compliments. The plastic re-sold to China is the high grade sorted and clean stuff (or high enough quality to be sorted and cleaned in China)... the stuff that gets remelted into pellets and re-molded into plastic objects. i.e. RECYCLED.
There is a whole parallel stream that communities and industry has -- the stuff nobody wants (see other replied to your message for stats ... the numbers are roughly the same in Europe). Reticulated plastic (cannot be reformed), off-cuts of PVC mixed with fire retardants, unsortable plastic with heterogenous composition, food packaging waste that is typically never recycled at all, etc. THAT is the market for Plastic2Oil, and it's huge.
And the recyclers want IN because it allows them to leverage the relationship they have with industry and communities -- to reach farther down the value chain and take a larger percentage of plastic discard. They have the infrastructure (facilities, staff, transportation, etc.) already in-place to operate P2O, and have easy access to large amounts of free waste plastic.
So you need to understand that the plastic shipped to China is NOT the same stuff that would go into the P2O process. P2O deals with the untradeable .. the landfilled (or incinerated) plastics!!
Tykün
Clearly not easy enough for some.
There is no energy created from nothing. This is not a perpetual motion machine. 8% of the hydrocarbons in the plastic are turned into gas, and 90% is turned into liquid fuel (mostly diesel).
The 8% gas is the "excess" energy (created from the plastic, not out of thin air), and that is 3x more than is needed to run the entire system (to power the burners to heat the main reactor).
This has been covered many times on this board.
You are not thinking straight. URS camped-out on-site for a month? How did you come to understand that this would be required for each site?
And excess gas? There is plenty. Not too sure how you don't realize that part yet.
But hey, this is a free and open forum and all viewpoints are welcome. Even flawed ones.
The project you worked on.. was it a P2O processor? If not, I fail to see the parallel you are drawing.
While indeed I didn't count the cost to assemble, let's say you're right.. it's another $200k. That's still a fraction of the cost of the competition. And yes, the footprint is also a fraction of the competition (per daily mass processed).
So, yeah. Way!
Oh yeah, and the excess gas created can generate about $200k worth of electricity in a year (for 20 tons/day).
A little? LOL
Even if Plastic2Oil rollout were terribly executed, this stock has a whole lotta legroom.
Isn't the point that if this is not a scam, you don't throw in the towel?
I saw a Buffet quote the other day:
"The stock market is just a mechanism to transfer money from the impatient to the patient." (paraphrased)
So unless something fundamental changes, or you need access to your funds, why would you sell?
You can't short penny stocks?
Try InteractiveBrokers. Great rates, all global exchanges. Shorts pennies just fine.
But why short a stock? Your gains are limited. BUY a stock like JBIIE and the sky's the limit!!
Tykün
My understanding was that the facility move to Indiana was partly to save labor costs and partly because they're closer to the raw material .. the corn & agricultural byproducts that they make the resins with.
Also, I would think that the relative COGS would be unchanged.. that they needn't raise capital in order to fulfil orders. On the other hand, I think I read that they recognize revenue when they ship the product and/or receive payment, and not before.. so I guess it makes some sense.
Has Scheer ever held a conf call with shareholders in the past? I would think nowadays seems like a crucial time to hold one, and answer shareholder questions. If the CEO is himself so puzzled at the low PPS, perhaps he should take entertain questions from the people who dictate it!?
Tykün
Indeed, the timing is curious. We all knew another PIPE was coming, and we knew it had to be soon. I'm actually surprised at the amount -- it seems a little high (compared to past amounts) given how close they should be to being cash-flow positive.
"fund growth" ... it's my understanding that the new Indiana plant is operating at about 10% capacity today, and that it's already cheaper than the old CA facility.
Not sure what "funding" they are talking bout.. perhaps R&D into their upcoming algae-based resins?
Processors have been earmarked at $200k each (for 20-60 tons/day). Although that's an unconfirmed number, the competition is in the range of $3-7m for roughly the same processing rate.
Other factors that help:
. lower rent (for smaller processor)
. higher revenue (higher quality output)
. lower labour costs (speed of processing)
. excess net energy (electricity production)
. no expensive residue disposal (can be landfilled)
. possibly paid for feedstock
And you have a 2-10x better return on your investment compared with Nill-Tech, Cynar, Envion, Samki, etc.
It's a leapfrog technology compared to what's out there today. But that doesn't mean in 5 years somebody else can't catch-up or even surpass JBI's technology. But for the coming years, it's a clear winner.
Tyk
Absolutely. If Plastic2Oil works as advertised, and the O/S count doesn't move, they'd need between 100 and 200 processors operational to justify a $100 share price.
I guess sarcasm doesn't come across well on a keyboard.
I think the point is that for months now it's been stated that nobody who invested in JBI and believes P2O will be profitable gives a rat's ass what the media credits are worth. Nor, quite frankly, does anyone of us believe that the "restated" financials will change anything about the future outlook for this company.
It's just that the bashers here are claiming that the future restated financials are proof that JBI has been cooking their books. For all we know the "adjustment" could be in the thousands of dollars, not hundreds-of-thousands, and in theory could go either way.
Food for thought. Or, fuel for criticism... take your pick.
Did anyone ever consider that the restated financials may be more positive? Maybe those media credits are worth $20m, or Javaco was more profitable in 2009?
Do you recall our friend JJ who bought some JBII shares before the 10Q, in anticipation of JBI fraudulently inflating the figures? They didn't, and he got caught holding JBI shares (poor guy!).
You never know...
But either way, you can be sure the new auditor will do an extremely thorough and professional job, in-line with NASDAQ expectations. Then, there can be no more "cooked books" slander.
Tykun
The more I read about CFSC (GDHI), the more I like it. It seems to be a company on the right track, and the information flow from mgmt for a PinkSheets is excellent. No BS, just execution (backed by proof).
Until now I've only taken a small position, but I will consider stepping in heavier with a few more concrete developments or depending on the outcome of the pending conf call. I like what I see here.
Tykun
Execute, execute, execute...
Can't wait for the conf call.
yeah, yesterday
But even with dilution (?), I believe we now have a low-end value on CERP shares at $3.50. Now we just wait for a profitable quarter (possible Q3, surely Q4) and we should be up quite a bit from here.
And that PIPE was done at $3.50, which is hardly a discount to recent prices.
I'd say that should send a fairly confident message to the market, no?
Slow & steady rise from here...