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johnsbus
So you are saying the prospect of our investments in DNAG is no better than this?
"Would you stand beside a crap table in Vegas yelling "Your gonna loose your money?"
Perhaps you should go to Vegas. I did recently and won more money in two days at the Venetian Hotel crap tables than this investment ever returned for me. LOL!
JMHO from the real facts.
dr f
chiggah
IMO, the fluff effect of that recent Statnome pr has pretty much died and we will be seeing the pps descend to subpenny again due to lack of any substantive support for sustaining a higher valuation. Looks like history just keeps repeating itself with this moribund stock. Except for the fraudulent pumpers on this board, there is little else to indicate any interest in this investment. Everyone has apparently viewed the Statnome pr with a big yawn. I assume you are still buying shares on a regular basis and doing the happy managers proud with your undying loyalty.
JMHO
dr f
chiggah
Good to see you again! I hope you have been enjoying yourself challenging those steeps!
I am only offering contrarian views for the kind consideration of those who participate on this board. After all, not everything is positive about anything. In fact, I have not seen anything positive at all about this investment. Have you? If so, please enlighten me. Before doing so, add up all the money you have invested in this stock, subtract the product of the number of shares you hold by the current pps. Is that difference perchance an extremely large negative number? If so, then pray tell what are you thinking at this point in time? Fear? Depression? Delusional denial of the facts? Unbridled optimism that one day you will be very rich from cashing in your shares of DNAG? Please be honest, since I would really like to know what and how you are thinking about DNAG.
JMHO and hope all is well with you!
dr f
stockhlder101
Thank you for your response. The long termers are hanging on your every word and may well be following you in placing buy orders tomorrow. glty and all those who follow.
JMHO
dr f
BTW, do you think there is any truth to that old saying "Burnt once, shame on you! Burnt twice, shame on me!"? LOL!
An interesting commentary FYI:
By: tdiamonds
15 Jan 2007, 04:28 PM EST
Msg. 363251 of 363254
(This msg. is a reply to 362821 by samlion.)
Jump to msg. #
Dnag’s PR numbers and Myopathy . . .
First, I found the following information on myopathy and ZOCOR:
“In HPS involving 20,536 patients treated with ZOCOR 40 mg/day (n=10,269) or placebo (n=10,267), the safety profiles were comparable between patients treated with ZOCOR and patients treated with placebo over the mean 5 years of the study. In this large trial, only serious adverse events and discontinuations due to any adverse events were recorded. Discontinuation rates due to adverse experiences were comparable (4.8% in patients treated with ZOCOR compared with 5.1% in patients treated with placebo). The incidence of myopathy/rhabdomyolysis was less than 0.1% in patients treated with ZOCOR.”
That’s right, out of 10,269 patients treated with ZOCOR ten people might feel some weakness and/or pain and have to discontinue taking the drug as a result.
Second, according to DNAG’s PR, they have finally validated a marker:
“DNAPrint's study of 750 patients who had taken either atorvastatin (Lipitor®) or simvastatin (Zocor®) showed that patients carrying one specific genetic marker were approximately 2.5 times more likely to experience mild to severe muscle pain (myalgia).”
So, to use easier numbers, let’s say there were 7 people of the 10,269 patients taking ZOCOR who discontinued taking the drug due to myopathy/rhabdomyolysis. According to DNAG’s PR (if they are making the correct comparison – which is always doubtful with a company that names an eyecolor classifier after the retina instead of the iris), of those 7 people, 5 would have the marker and 2 would not have the marker.
Unfortunately, according to DNAG’s PR the incidence of the marker in the general population is about 20%. If the marker is not correlated with high cholesterol, then it would appear that 2,053 people treated with ZOCOR in the above-mentioned study will carry the marker. If the marker is correlated with cholesterol, that number could rise significantly. Even at 20%, is it not the case that only 5 patients out of 2,053 that carry the marker actually report “mild to severe muscle pain?”
Would you pay for that kind of information?
It also seems that most or many patients who complain of myalgia resolve the problem when taken off the medication.
Now, let’s look at the so-called science itself:
It is important to keep in mind the fact that reporting symptoms is a very subjective phenomenon (the side effect may or may not exist even in those who report it). That is one reason why the placebo group often reports side effects at the same rate or greater than the drug group in these controlled studies. Another reason is that there is simply a base rate of incidence for any given side effect. For example, with or without ZOCOR, many people experience headaches. That is why controlled studies report statistically significant differences between the drug group and the placebo group, as opposed to the difference between drug group incidence and no incidence.
Further, these are correlation studies and as such offer little/no evidence of cause and effect relationships. For example, on average, who do you think would be more willing to report muscle pain or weakness – Men or Women? I think men would be more likely to complain, but you might think just the opposite or that there is no difference. The point is that if there is a difference between gender rates for reporting myopathy, the marker could simply be associated with gender. That is, of the very small percentage of patients reporting myopathy, men might be 2.5 times more likely to do so and the marker is simply associated with being male. On the other hand, some ethnicities might be more stoic or more open to complaining and that, too, might be mediated by gender differences. For example, Hispanic women might be more prone to complaints than Hispanic men or vice versa.
Additionally, the marker may simply be associated with people who have a tendency towards hypochondria. When told they might experience muscle pain or weakness, these people may have a tendency to exaggerate the severity of any of the minor aches and pains for which millions of people take an occasional aspirin or other OTC analgesic.
Of equal significance, (the examples are almost infinite) it could be that the samples used to find and validate the marker were composed of similar numbers of patients who also had diabetes. Rhabdomyolysis, for example, is associated with statin taking patients who are co-morbid for diabetes (a known risk factor). If the marker is also associated with diabetes, it adds nothing to the predictive model and is virtually worthless, though equally predictive – the problem being patients already know they have diabetes.
The point here is that when the company claims they have “validated” their findings, they are simply claiming they have “validated” their findings with respect to frequency of occurrence in two samples (I think) – certainly not that they have validated any cause effect relationship or that they have any “validated” insight into any causal factors. Importantly, if the samples are identical in make-up, then there is little reason to generalize beyond the samples themselves.
To be fair, the predictive relationship is important at some level. That is, it does not necessarily matter that there is no cause effect relationship, if one variable predicts another variable. On the other hand, having a marker that is really only associated with being a Hispanic female, elderly Caucasian male, or diabetic of any gender/ethnicity (though predictive) is still probably not worth much in the grand scheme of things.
So, what have we got?
1. a side effect with very low incidence (maybe 7 to 10 out of 10,000)?
2. a side effect that appears to be transient in most cases, when treatment is stopped.
3. a marker that is carried by 20% of the general population (or 2,000 out of 10,000).
4. a marker that suggests for every 7 patients out of 10,000 who complain of “mild to severe” myalgia, 5 will have the maker and 2 will not have the marker.
5. evidence from correlation that may have absolutely nothing to do with myopathy.
6. self reported symptoms that may or may not be real.
Of course, we need to see the actual paper; however, it would appear the company has precious little worth paying for with this marker, which of course begs the question:
Why would the company put out a PR heralding a finding that may be next to worthless in the marketplace?
We all know the company has been in the business of “printing shares” for the past three years and the resultant MASSIVE DILUTION has virtually destroyed the value of the investments of early-stage buy-and-hold shareholders. To continue to make their shares look valuable to naïve investors, it would seem reasonable to expect just such a PR from a company that is constantly engaged in the process of diluting every shareholder’s percent of ownership in the company. When a company destroys virtually the entire value of the investments of their shareholder base, it seems only reasonable that they go after unsuspecting investors to get them to invest in the same losing proposition – PR’s seem to be the preferred method of most PUMP and DUMPs, along with paid-for analyst reports.
Is this a PUMP and DUMP?
You be the judge!
As always, I am not a lawyer, accountant, stock broker or (doctor or analyst), so please do your own DD and invest your family's money responsibly. PLEASE consult a professional before buying or continuing to hold any risky investment.
My opinions are just that. Even though I put a lot of thought into them, you should always consult a professional before making any investment decision. That is especially true of the high risk OTCBB market (IMO).
The truth is out there,
td
stockboy
A most humorous analogy! IMO, bag8ger could learn from you. You might also try to help him improve upon his very inept metaphors. LOL!
Thank you for your continuing contributions to this fine board. I assume you have not bought any more shares of this porker since the tax sale.
JMHO and best to you.
dr f
stockhlder101
January is half over and the pps remains just barely above subpenny. If nothing happens by the end of January, will you be dumping your shares or holding on for some other event? Looks like the latest pr fluffs have proven themselves to having been again just that, unfortunately for the long term bagholders.
JMHO
dr f
stockhlder101
When will that rally begin and what event will initiate it? If the pps approaches .50, when do you advise dumping shares? tia
bag8ger
If everything is as you, Virgil, gunnabe and worktoplay say it is, then please explain why there is apparently no one out there as smart as you three ready, willing and able to buy into this company and drive the pps up? Are you saying, except for you three, they are all stupid, ignorant and unadvised of all the greatness that DNAG has to offer?
I suggest you three find something better to do with you time than insult Shakespeare with your rendition of Much Ado About Nothing. LOL!
JMHO
dr f
wrl
1. I have seen the pipeline, revenue growth and supposed potential. I am not impressed with the commercial potential of what the company has to offer...in the same way sophisticated investors, institutions, pharmas and biotechs are not impressed. That is why the overall market has assigned a near subpenny valuation for the stock.
2. I have not been insulting the company officers. I merely refer to them as "happy managers," an apt description given their guaranteed compensation packages. They have been conspicuous only in their destruction of shareholder value over the past several years.
3. I have not called the company a pig. I have referred to this stock as a pig, a more humorous appellation than the plebian "POS."
4. I do not "bash" at every opportunity. I only offer what I believe are relevant negative facts for consideration by serious investors of this stock. My comments may be accepted, rejected or ignored by anyone at anytime. I always welcome opposing views presented in an objective and civil manner.
5. Am I biased towards the negative? Given the history of the company and what has happened to shareholder value, I would have to say I certainly am.
You are free to agree or disagree with what I have stated. It is your money and your credibility at stake.
JMHO from the facts.
dr f
wrl
I will be charitable this morning and indulge you in a point-by-point discussion of what I had posted so you can present your opposing position....that is, if you are up to this challenge. If not, then it would be fair to say your credibility has been and will always be zero. Easy for anyone to stand on the sidelines and issue quick insults. I am now generously offering you the opportunity to back them up in a logical and civil manner.
JMHO and shall await your response.
dr f
JusDePomme
I believe it goes without saying that every bagholder in this stock liked the DNAG technology prior to ponying up their hard earned after tax dollars for shares in the company.
I have been increasingly concerned about the commercial viability of what the company has to offer. Everything the company has, is and will be doing has all been patented, published or otherwise publicly disclosed for all the world to see. So far, no takers and, after almost 7 long years, the company is only realizing miniscule revenues from the ancestry/forensics protocols and contract research services. Not exactly what Frudakis had in mind when he stated, many years ago, DNAG would be a Fortune 500 company.
The company has been engaged in various research projects in which it is required to pay huge fees for the privilege of doing the research. No one has ever come forward and offered the company fees for the privilege of working with its supposed cutting edge predictive and diagnostic technology. I ask simply, why?
These are important questions and considerations which, IMO, address the heart of your concerns. However, the pumpers on this board will consider what I have stated to be bashing this stock because they firmly believe that negatives about the company do not exist. You should seriously consider the facts and decide for yourself. It is your money at risk.
JMHO and good luck to you.
dr f
bag8ger
Interesting. I always thought your delusional denial of the facts have always colored every one of your posts with respect to both this investment and its underlying science.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. LOL!
JMHO for your kind consideration!
dr f
chiggah
Please refrain from childish personal attacks simply because you do not agree with what is being posted. This is a fine forum for discussing and sharing opposing views. You must learn to keep your emotions under control, even if you truly believe the huge amount of money which you have already lost on paper in this investment will be irretrievably lost because of those opposing views. It is a free country with free speech. You cannot put a price on or limit that freedom!
JMHO for your immediate compliance.
dr f
JusDePomme
I reiterate that your current loss pales when compared to those of the long term bagholders, some of whom are down in the hundreds of thousands of dollars since day one.
You have adressed the value of the pipeline. If your favorable assessment is correct, then the pps should not be anywhere near subpenny. The pumpers believe that only they know the real value of the pipeline and nobody outside of this board, including sophisticated investors, financial institutions, pharmas and biotechs, has sufficient intelligence to understand and appreciate what the pumpers maintain is greatness in the making, hence the current pps.
You will have to decide if the pumpers are correct of if the market is correct in assigning the current pps to this stock. In the meantime, you may want to consider flipping those million shares for some profit, so long as the fluff prs' continue to permit this short term trading.
JMHO and good luck to you.
dr f
stockhlder101
IMO, the pps will be spanked back to subpenny today. Nothing of substance to sustain or increase the pps. You will have to hope for another fluff pr to get your 5%. Good luck in your trading!
chrisbaskett
You complain about me but, IMO, no one has ever lost money on what I have posted. You also complain about stockhlder101 because he is smart enough to profit from trading this pig. Where are you coming from? Sounds like you are a constant schizoid whiner who has sufered severe depression from your huge loss in this investment and don't know what to do with your declining shares of this pig. LMAO!
stockhlder101
You are a true trading genius and a reference standard against which all long term complaining bagholders should aspire and be compared to!
JMHO and best to you!
dr f
JusDePomme
No, if you just bought today as you have stated, you bought at the right time and you are waaaaaay ahead of all the long term bagholders who have been suffering for over 6 years. However, any money to be made from this stock today will probably be limited to fleet footed trading for 5-7% profit. IMO, and at this point in time, there is nothing happening with the company which warrants a long term investment outlook, given no revenues, toxic financing and dwindling cash on hand. Check out stockhlder101's posts. He seems to have made significant profits trading this stock.
JMHO and good luck!
dr f
Brothers In Arms
Thank you for your thoughts on this investment. You make some very good points which I hope will be realized for the sake of the long term investors in DNAG.
I regret seeing the extremely shabby manner in which you were treated on the other board by cosmiclifeform in response to your sincere expression of concern for your investment. I hope that form of cruel behavior will not continue, although I do understand that is an exclusive pumping board which does encourage its loyal pumpers to freely attack anyone who would dare question any negative facts about DNAG.
JMHO and best of luck to you!
dr f
Virgil
As usual, your lack of intellecual honesty betrays you. I never called chiggah a "liar", you assumed I did. I only indicated what was a more realistic and probable scenario from the favorable fantasy which you conjured up to accord you, and I suppose also chiggah, with a modicum of optimistic comfort in this dismal investment. Now, if you say I am wrong about "dismal", then I know there is at least a couple of screws loose with your analysis of this investment.
My subpenny prediction has been substantially fulfilled and will continue to be true. Your .24/share prediction will always stand as not only incredibly laughable, but also the product of a delusional mind. Therefore, you have been woefully wrong and the pps history says I have been substantially correct.
JMHO
dr f
Gcbr
I am surprised, but on second thought I am not, you are so naieve and desperate to believe that fluffy bs. LOL! That is a pump and dump group which operates on the volatility of penny stocks and the emotional wackos who buy them. I am sure you backed up your old pickup and bought a couple of million more shares based on that great recommendation. LOL!
JMHO and LMAO!
dr f
chiggah
Please add up all the hard earned after tax dollars which you have invested in this pig since day one. Then multiply the number of shares of this pig that you now own with the closing bid price. Subtract the latter number from the former number. That is your loss in this investment to date. Whether or not you sell your shares to book the tax loss is irrelevant. You and all the long term bagholders have already lost.....big time.
You cannot say a person has not died just because the body has not yet been buried. LOL!
JMHO and hope you are having a happy day!
dr f
Virgil
Again, you have made assumptions which are unrealistic and contrived solely for the purpose of trying to prove you are correct, in your usual inimitable way. LOL!
Given the emotional instability expressed by chiggah on this board toward any objective posting of negative facts, it would be more reasonable to assume that he is in deep financial doo doo where his investment in DNAG is concerned. LOL!
He stated that he has been in this pig of an investment for many years. I suggest that, prior to the first devastating r/s, he probably had at least a few hundred thousand up to a million shares at average .10-.15/share. After the 1 for 20 screwing issued by the smiling happy managers, well, the rest is history and you can use your trusted calculator to see where chiggah stands today. He can average down with whatever he may have purchased post first r/s, but the losses suffered from the latter is always there, regardless of any averaging down. LOL!
JMHO
dr f
stockboy
IMO, a real dead cat bounce. Probably a result of the company and it toxic financier mercifully not dumping shares for a while. Nothing of late to cause or sustain any significant increase in the pps. I expect it to dip back into subpenny shortly.
JMHO
dr f
chiggah
Good to see you again. Please try to relax and not take this board and its posts too seriously. We are all here for the social enjoyment and no one in his or her right mind should ever take anything posted here as a serious basis for buying or selling this stock. Hope this helps reduce your obvious emotional trauma, blood pressure, and whatever else might ails you! LOL!
JMHO from the real facts.
dr f
stockboy LOL! We have missed your astute observations. Hope all has been well with you since your tax sale of this stock. So far, there has been nothing but meaningless fluff. The pps is going nowhere fast. I cannot imagine any newbie with at least a room temperature IQ seriously considering investing in this pig. BTW, are you considering buying back in? LOL!
JMHO from the facts.
dr f
jever000
Frankly, I am surprised that your many fraudulent pumping posts about the course of this investment have not been sanctioned by the moderators of this fine board. Are you capable of feeling any guilt about any new investors who may have lost hard earned money based on your fraudulent representations?
JMHO for your kind consideration.
dr f
stockhlder101
It seems you and penny are the only last gasp hope for the long term bagholders who are now hanging on every word you two are posting. It would be a real shame if things do not turn out as you two have predicted. But then again, are you two really capable of making a silk purse from a sow's ear? This pig has been in the gutter so long it would take a miraculous religious intervention from the big guy in the sky to give it wings and fly. Do you think this will happen? What is your pps exit point?
JMHO
dr f
stockhlder
Do you recall the number of o/s when the pps spiked to .1875 from that bruhaha? Do you know the current number of o/s? Exactly what do you will be required to get this pig back up to .1875? tia
dr f
penny
Thank you. That means my entire original investment in DNAG, including those of the other bagholders on this board, is intact and we have absolutely nothing to worry about....unless, of course we should decide to sell. Perish that thought!
Have you and chiggah ever considered partnerning up and opening an accounting advisory service for penny stock investors? I suggest calling yourselves Dumb & Dumber, CPA. You might get a lot of business from those in delusional denial on this fine board. LOL!
JMHO
dr f
chiggah
Well now, this interesting statement from you explains everything: "I have lost nothing for I have not sold anything."
I am sure that will give great comfort to all the long and short term bagholders of this promising stock. LOL!
JMHO
dr f
chiggah
So you have lost NOTHING with DNAG? Hmmmmm, I wonder how your pumping cohorts will consider that rather brash disingenuous statement. Perhaps your credibility will be questioned? LOL!
I do thank you for dedicating your alleged purchase of "several hundred thousand shares the last 10 days." I am quite moved by that gesture, but your pumping cohorts will probably question that allegation absent copies of your trade confirmations. LOL!
Well, if managers of other companies are making more than those of DNAG, perhaps you could see if the efforts of the former have increased top and bottom line revenues in a meaningful way for their shareholders. The happy managers of DNAG are conspicuous only in their ability to destroy shareholder value over almost 7 years.
BTW, the current pps of this supposed great promising biotech is hovering between one penny and subpenny, in case you have not noticed. Why is that? What do you have to say to newbies who are considering buying shares in this company? Is this not a fair question? Newbies are waiting for YOUR response!
JMHO
dr f
chiggah
Looks like you are having a rough life, what with the huge loss in your investment and no relief in sight, probably having second thoughts about the sincerity of the happy managers in looking out for your interest, and battling all the bashers and short term traders on this fine board. I know it is emotionally draining but, as they say in Sarasota while enjoying their big salaries and bonuses for 2006, you make your own bed and you must sleep in it. LOL!
JMHO and hope you are enjoying this nice weekend!
dr f
chiggah
So bag8ger, chrisbaskett, and possibly you, have all been here for many long suffering years, the tenure of which has somehow anointed you pained souls with some preemptive squatters' right to criticize anyone who would profit from trading this pig. If you are unable to guarantee those nimble footed short term traders they would profit more by holding long like you bunch of sorry bagholders, then they should feel free to risk their hard earned money from the only proven way of profiting from this comatose porker.
JMHO for your enlightenment.
dr f
stockhlder
What do you predict the pps will gap up to before crashing back down again? What do you think will be an optimum exit point? tia
JMHO
dr f
stockhlder101
Not only getting bargains, but also trading this stock for quick profits.
Looks like your approach to short term trading, instead of buy, hold and lose like the long term bagholders have been doing, is the only way to make money from this pig. The bagholders are incensed that newbies refuse to follow their losing lead and dare try to profit. Misery needs a lot of company, I suppose.
That cat fight between the long term bagholder pumper and the short term trader pumper is hilarious. Never thought pumpers would be lashing out against each other. LOL!
JMHO
dr f
oasdihf
Who is the "uranium pope" referred to by the writer and what company is he with? Thanks for your info!
jever000
So he gets paid $205,000/year plus bonuses. Does anyone know what the pps of this pos was when he took over the CEO reins at DNAG? We should compare that pps with the pps of today, adjusted for that devastating first r/s, and see whether or not we have a productive CEO who has earned his keep in enhancing shareholder value during his tenure.
JMHO for serious consideration by those concerned about their investments in this stock.
dr f
Link to my previous post.
http://www.angelnexus.com/offers/web/387