It is interesting that you fail to mention Intel's serial litigation against AMD for IP violations -- that is until they gave up. That's the nature of the legal system.


Ummmmm, I did say "both companies, threw away millions during the legal battles", that was sort of meant to cover all those stupid litigations on both sides, but I guess that didn't come across clearly. Sorry. Oh, and btw, when you say intel "gave up" their litigation, that's not exactly the way I heard it.

IMO, If it had been up to Andy Grove and Jerry Sanders, the battle would no doubt have continued to the death, since by that time, it was obviously personal, and had already dragged on far longer then it made any business sense to do so. In any case, the story as I heard it, was the intel Legal Department went behind ole Andy's back, and contacted the AMD Legal Department directly, also going behind Jerry's back, and the 2 departments worked out a plan, and presented it to both Boards, and The Board Of Directors of both companies, made those 2 pissing contestants an offer they both couldn't refuse.

At least that was the story that came across the cafe table grapevine at the time. You know how unreliable (or completely accurate) those things can be

The biggest legal fights between Intel and AMD were
over the 386. Originally AMD was to be a 386 second
source.....


At the time, I was working in wafer sort/final test, and I remember, when people I knew, talked about it, they referred to the issue as "AMD can make 286's but intel doesn't want them to make 386's", because intel wanted to keep all the 386 revenue, instead of sharing it withy AMD, like they did with the 286,so, quite a few people I knew at the time, referred to it as "The 286 issue", because that's what was in high volume production at the time, but I guess in retrospect, would have been more accurate to call it "The 386 issue". Oh well.

Rather harsh I would say!

Yeah, reality isn't always pretty, and multi-million dollar business decisions can often be harsh. The point is, the way that I see it, while the idea that AMD would sue intel over this, might make an AMD fanboy feel real good, from a (Harsh) business perspective, it doesn't make financial sense for AMD to do it.

But get ready to hear bitching about it, for awhile though, from the AMD fanboy crybabies

The evidence in this case has already been collected and is damning. AMD couldn't really lose although Intel would drag it out for years.


I think you're indulging in wishful thinking. Fine with me. Maybe you don't remember the 80286 case, but AMD claimed to have plenty of evidence back then too. Didn't make a bit of difference. Both companies uselessly threw away millions and millions of dollars in legal fees, and court costs during the battle, before it was settled. Do you think AMD has the resources (or Jerry Sanders type foolishness) to do it again?

Me neither.

No, I think they'll continue to do just as they have done recently. Complain to everyone, and anyone who will listen, but IMO, that's pretty much going to be the extent of AMD's "effort" in this area. Why take on a task yourself, if you can get the government to do your dirty work. Much Much smarter to go that way.

I would be worried about the multi-million dollar lawsuit AMD will slap you with .


Oh, I don't think so. I think that AMD's legal department learned quite a bit about throwing legal resources down the drain during the 80286 lawsuit fights with intel.

No, I doubt that AMD has the stomach to fight a legal battle like that, face to face, against intel. AMD rather seems to have proven in at least 2 prior instances, that they prefer to slither around in the darkness, and the background, and complain to the EU and the Japanese Government instead. I doubt, that anyone has the balls anywhere inside AMD, to go head to head with intel's legal department. Otherwise, thy would have done so already these many years they've been complaining, instead of taking the crybaby route that they chose. Look for them instead to continue complaining to Governments, while hiding behind the governments skirts, and denying any involvement.

IMO, If your waiting for Hector or Dirk to grow a set of big enough balls to do what your suggesting, then my advice would be; Don't hold your breath waiting, because you're likely to suffocate

A Falling Meteor, About To Crash?

Chip-Maker Transmeta Reorganizes Business, Cuts Jobs

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050331/transmeta_job_cuts.html?.v=4
SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Struggling chip-maker Transmeta Corp. on Thursday announced a major corporate restructuring, a 24 percent reduction in its work force and the hiring of a new chief executive as it tries to survive amid much larger rivals.

Just five years after its splashy public debut at the sunset of the tech boom, the unprofitable maker of low-power microprocessors for notebooks and other computers said it will focus on licensing its technology and intellectual property to other companies.

Duke

"We have never done this before, but we promise not to do it again."

Not quite. In this case Intel fully admits they did it and believes there's nothing wrong with it, but they won't do it again.


The big thing that I was worried about, was IF the Japanese had forbidden further use of the intel inside campaign, then intel would have to cancel th intel inside discounts, which rebate a portion of the advertising fees if intel products are featured. According to this story, http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050331/intel_fair_trade.html?.v=4 while intel can not require a shop to be intel only, they can still do so, if they desire, and are still allowed to participate in the intel inside campaign to whatever extent they want to.

Oh yeah, and the "few thousand dollar fine", should really hurt the companies bottom line (cough)

Hmmm? Both AMD and Intel have the same direct exposure
to DRAM pricing: zero


Oh Yeah..... Different memory..... DOH.

BTW, thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it when someone can correct me Without having to resort to the personal attacks, filled with venom, bile, and bitternes, that appears to be the standard of "someone", in every single post they make here. Too bad they don't realize, that everyone isn't as perfect, as they obviously view themselves to be.

Thanks Again

I wonder what their motives are really, sounds like they are shorting to me, I also thought they did banking for AMD.


***I never pay attention to CSFB's comments on AMD and/or intel. They are certainly biased. Jery Sanders was a director of a company called DLJ "before" DLJ was aquired by CSFB, and DLJ did investment banking for AMD.


http://sec.edgar-online.com/2001/03/20/0001012870-01-001225/Section12.asp
ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES INC
Form:DEF 14A Filing Date:3/20/2001
In 2000, Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette Securities Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of DLJ, provided investment banking services to us. W. J. Sanders III, Chairman of the Board of AMD, was a director of DLJ before it was acquired by CSFB.


***Must be nice having the CEO of AMD "directing" a company doing investment banking business with AMD. Oh yeah, that was "before" they were aquired by CSFB. I'm sure there's no favoritism (cough) towards AMD, among the people at CFSB (cough cough). Just review how often AMD speaks at CSFB conferences to see how close these 2 companies are. Also, it looks to me, that historically, CSFB's and their "Investment Banking Arm" (ie: DLJ), are not above twisting the truth, if it helps their "partners"......


http://www.nightlybusiness.org/transcript/2002/trnscrpt102102.htm
10/21/02: CSFB Is Accused Of Doing Unfavorable Things With Favorable Ratings

MONT FENNEL, NIGHTLY BUSINESS REPORT CORRESPONDENT: Armed with stock charts and thousands of company e- mails on computer disc and in boxes, Massachusetts' secretary of state accused Credit Suisse first Boston of purposely giving investors bad information.

WILLIAM GALVIN, MASSACHUSSETTS SECRETARY OF STATE: When they've been misled, when they've been deceived, when they've been lied to, that has to stop.

FENNEL: Bill Galvin says CSFB forced its researchers to give favorable ratings to companies which did business with the firm's investment banking arm. An e-mail from one employee says, "I would not lower my numbers on AOL (AOL), even though they can't make them."

"Memory Prices Plummeting"

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00752/
Nine weeks ago, the spot price on a 256Mbit (32Mbitx8) 400MHz DDR DRAM was about $4.00. Then it started dropping, and about a month ago, it went into freefall.

As of today, the price is close to $2.40. That's a 40% drop in nine weeks.

Indeed, the current price on DDR is now a bit lower than the cost of making it.

Indeed, analysts like JP Morgan predict that there will be even more of a glut in the next few months.


Doesn't sound like good news for Spansion. Good thing intel doesn't depend on memory sales as much as "some other company" does, eh?

THE INTEL AWARD WINNERS

Meet The Best And Brightest

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_13/b3926401.htm
Forty gifted U.S. high school science students told us what matters to them.

Intel Discontinues Celeron Processors.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20050328035935.html
The world’s largest maker of semiconductors Intel Corp. announced intention to discontinue its Celeron processors produced using 0.13 micron process technology for desktop applications. The supplies will be halted this year for boxed versions and early next year for tray versions of products.

Intel Corp.’s notification for its partners reads that the last date to order Intel Celeron processors 2.50GHz, 2.60GHz, 2.70GHz and 2.80GHz is May 20, 2005. The last shipment date for boxed versions of central processing units is the 21st October, 2005, whereas tray flavours may be supplied to the extent of March 24, 2006. Intel will continue to supply the Celeron processors for embedded applications as long as there is demand, the company indicated.

More Turion Vapor

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22136

65nm Talk

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00748/
There's some talk about Intel pushing the arrival of 65nm chips some months ahead of schedule. So while 65nm chips may show up this year, they'll probably won't be commonplace until early, or not terribly early, 2006.

Where Does This Leave AMD?

Behind.

AMD has had most of the technical high cards in its hands for the last six months, and has done squat with them.

Yes, AMD is saying that they'll have 65nm chips by the end of the year, and they had better be able to crank out a few by then, just to validate the new 65nm fab, but that's not the same as going into serious production. After all, the history of Hammer ought to tell us the difference between "making" chips and making chips.

The only brilliance AMD has shown with Hammer is tossing up enough smoke and mirrors for people to not realize AMD hasn't been able to produce them en masse. They haven't been able to deliver the product, apparently because at AMD, SOI really stands for Slave Of IBM. From the little we know, it seems like they've been largely waiting around for IBM to (reluctantly) give them the formulas for good SOI sauce, then struggling to make it work.

I'm not much for conspiracy theory, but I'd really like to be a fly on the wall at a few IBM meetings. I suspect a few people have some interesting thoughts about what they might like to do with AMD in a couple years.

Former IBM microprocessor guru joins AMD

http://www.eet.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159907014
MANHASSET, N.Y. — Seeking to bolster its presence in enterprise computing, AMD Inc. has hired Rich Oehler, a former IBM fellow and chief technology officer at Newisys.

See? It's Not As Easy As It Looks

China microprocessor developer scrambles for funds

http://www.eet.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159907035
TAIPEI, Taiwan — One of China's earliest microprocessor developers, BLX IC Design Corp., Ltd., is struggling to find cash to keep its product development on track after one of its main investors declined to deliver on more funding.
The company is looking for more backers and considering the option of selling the company or just its intellectual property, according to sources familiar with the company's operations. Its longtime CEO, David Shen, has also left the company.

Obviously the 65nm products require more pins, and have other more stringent packaging requirements. But I find it odd that an assembly plant cannot handle 65nm and 90nm and 130nm wafer fabbed parts. I thought that packaging technology is defined by package and assembly styles like Flip Chip/Wire Bond, Plastic/Ceramic, rather than the Wafer Fab Technology of the Silicon die.
Is there something about the combination of New Wafer Fab Technology and New Assembly Technology that I am missing ?


Packaging uses internal interconnect materials and different thicknesses of those materials in order to connect the die to the pins. There may also be layout diferences required, based on the changing layout of the die from process to process (if necessary). So, while 2 different Fab processes may "appear" to have the same package on the outside, that does not necessarily mean that the interconnect technology, or the thickness, or the layout, is the same on the inside.

That does not mean that a current packaging facility can't handle the new packaging process, but it also does not necessarily mean that it can. Depends on what is the cost/time required, of switching over to the new packaging technology, in relation to starting up new technology in a new assembly plant, from the beginning. I have no cost data available.

New Chinese assembly plant.
Note the Inquirer headline !
Intel to build 65 nanometre assembly plant in China
The 65nm technology is Wafer Fab technology, and has nothing to do with assembly operations which deal with chip package and test operations. Although it is likely that some 65nm product will be assembled at the latest Chinese assembly site.
Maybe Intel itself contributed to this journalistic error, needlessly using the 65nm moniker in a bid to impress the Chinese government to get better terms or cooperation.


Actually, what I'm finding out, is that 65nm Packaging Technology is quite a bit different then 90nm packaging technology, which is also quite a bit different then 130nm packaging technology, so if intel plans to start up with the 65nm packaging process in that plant, and skip 130nm and 90nm, then technically, the story might be considered accurate.

Intel planning to release 65 nanometre tech early.....


And that's not all.....


http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22043
AMD said it is planning to be right on Intel's heels with 65 nanometres, Intel is talking about Q4 of this year, and AMD "late" Q4/05, mere months behind.

There are two problems with this. First, as we noted here, Intel is speeding up on its 65 nanometre process. So, for every day that Intel shows up early, AMD has another day of gap. Intel PR will crow about this.

The more worrying question is where are the chips? Intel has been demoing 65nm chips for months now, up and running code, happy in its own world. The Presler box at IDF ran at 2GHz, which isn't bad for a chip this early. AMD showed nothing. It has, to the best of our nowledge, publicly shown nothing. It has also privately shown nothing, to the best of our knowledge.

Tempe set to go wi-fi citywide

http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/0322wireless22.html
The days of connecting to the Internet through telephone cords and cable wires may be numbered.

Tempe is on the verge of creating the state's first citywide wireless Internet network, and others are watching. Chandler and Glendale are researching citywide access, and Scottsdale and Phoenix are considering smaller coverage areas.

Benchmarks haunt AMD's Turion

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/15/amd_turion_bench/
Chip and server makers have an awful habit of unintentionally highlighting their weaknesses by making a big deal of dubious benchmarks. Intel has done it. IBM has done it. HP has done it. Sun Microsystems has done it. And, most recently, AMD has done it when it launched the mobile Turion 64 processors last week.

A key factor in the thin'n'light category is the balance a notebook strikes between performance and battery life. So when a vendor - in this case AMD - puts all of its attention on performance and doesn't say one word about battery life, you know the product in question might have some balance issues.

Why is AMD being so coy?

"The answer is that the battery life isn't so good," Reynolds said, adding that Turion-powered systems could have up to one-third less battery life than laptops running on Intel's ultra low voltage products.

CeBIT: TwinMOS to produce DDR2-800 modules in June

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050315PR207.html
TwinMOS Technologies will start manufacturing DDR2-800 DRAM modules in small quantities later this year, probably in June, the company said at CeBIT. On its booth at the trade fair, TwinMOS has been displaying a working system using DDR2-800 modules. The company claims that this system is the fastest PC at this year’s CeBIT.

Whitefield in trouble
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21874
oh, and no more watching movies when you should be posting on this board .



So, afaik, Whitefield was scheduled to be introduced in late 2006/early 2007. So IF..... the "story" is true, then I'm not concerned if "an entirely new CPU design", still has issues to be worked out, 1.5 years prior to introduction.....


http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/Roadmap2006.htm
Intel Whitefield CPU is expected to be released in Late 2006 / 2007. Whitefield is expected to be an entirely new CPU design for MP servers, replacing the current NetBurst architecture with a low power, possibly a 4 core Jonah design using the former Tanglewood interface. Whitefield is expected to come from Intel's design centre in India.


Oh, and by the way, it seems that Eva sort of got the second part of her story wrong..... too. From what I heard, it actually wasn't an issue with watching movies at work, it was an issue with "showing" movies at work..... Unless intel was willing to agree to pay a fee to the Film maker, of course. Then I'm guessing, it would have been OK with the American Motion Picture Association

Windsock, there is an Intel R&D facility in India already.
Tenchu


afaik, It's Hardware, and Software Engineering, plus marketing.
http://www.intel.com/jobs/india/sites/bangalore.htm

Like I mentioned to Elmer, I think India's historical limited semiconductor manufacturing experience, puts them lower on the consideration list..... If there's even any truth to the rumor of India being considered, at all. Engineering and Marketing expertise is one thing, Manufacturing expertise, is something else

An interesting and unexpected effect is starting to show. The turnover rate in high growth areas is so high that it's really undermining the perceived cost advantage.....


In addition, one of the reasons that I find the india rumor unlikely, is because I remember hearing, that one of the reasons that intel decided to put a second fab in Az, was that there was Already a large knowledge base of "Fab Experienced" employees there, to draw on, from the other Fab12 facility. The people who moved over, were able to bring up the 2nd fab while training additional new hires in both fabs. I don't think the knowledge base of fab experience exists in India, So IMO, the start up costs, for a "greenfield site", would also most likely be higher, then expanding and/or retrofitting existing facilities.....

Isn't it about time for Fab22 to be due for a "face lift"

Why Investors Are Dumping Chips

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2005/tc20050314_2245_tc024.htm
Despite solid numbers from Intel and others, the industry may be heading for a cyclical downturn. Wall Street is acting accordingly

A curious thing happened last week. A series of semiconductor companies reported earnings or profit expectations that should have pleased Wall Street. Xilinx (XLINK ) and Altera (ALTR ) significantly increased their sales-growth guidance. And on Mar. 10, National Semiconductor (NSM ) said bookings stopped what had been an alarming decline.

The same day, the world's largest chipmaker, Intel (INTC ), topped it all off by slightly increasing its revenue and margin guidance for the first quarter. Revenue at the Silicon Valley giant should be between $9.2 billion and $9.4 billion, while the gross margin on sales is expected to be 57%, plus or minus a percentage point.

Infrastructure is very important in fab location. Reliable electricity, water, basic gases and the like are essential. This has been a big problem for India in the past.


What really struck me, when I worked in wet etch, was the tremendous amounts of ultrapure water that it takes to manufacture chips, mostly for cleaning/rinsing purposes. I understand intel even built a reverse osmosis water treatment plant in chandler az, as part of the deal to build Fab22. I don't know what the UP H2O situation is in India.....

"Water Water everywhere, but not a drop to drink"

Anybody believe this?
Intel about to decide locating fab in India, says report


Intel looks at many sites when doing long range planning. Allot of factors are taken into account, government financial incentives, worker knowledge base, quality of life in the area, etc etc etc, before any decisions are made. Interestingly, I think this article could also have been written..... Intel about to decide locating fab in Arizona, Intel about to decide locating fab in Oregon, Intel about to decide locating fab in Isreal..... etc etc. It's possible India would be considered, but it sounds more like, that somebody got hold of an early early early consideration list, and has extrapolated a premature conclusion.

CeBIT: Taiwan motherboard makers out in force to support Nvidia’s upcoming nForce4 SLI Intel Edition

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050311PR205.html
At least eight Taiwan motherboard makers have been preparing models using Nvidia’s new nForce4 SLI Intel Edition media and communications processor (MCP). All of the eight joined Nvidia on stage at CeBIT during the preview of the newest member of the nForce family. This was the first time the company disclosed the name of its upcoming MCP.

MSI introduces new SFF PC

http://www.digitimes.com/Backgrounders/ArtReview.asp?datePublish=2005/03/11&pages=PR&seq=207...
The Mega PC 865 Pro will be targeted to mainstream users and aims to take advantage of the convergence of PC and consumer electronics devices. Based on the Intel 865G chipset, the system features an instant-on DVD player, as well as support for FM radio and TV. MSI has also added new audio features to the Mega PC 865 Pro, as well as equipping it with a wireless 802.11g card.

SAP and Intel to Standardize RFID Hardware Integration

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050310/sfth009_2.html
- Joint Effort Announced at CeBIT Will Help Companies Lower Costs and Reduce Complexity of Data Capture

Q1'05 Mid-Quarter Business Update Release and Conference Call

http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/7/53177.html

Intel's Fuse Ready to Light

http://tinyurl.com/4l297
Intel (INTC:Nasdaq - commentary - research) shares are once again on the verge of breaking above $25, which until this week represented an eight-month high that the stock had failed to breach on several occasions. The company's midquarter update after the bell Thursday should help to determine whether the stock will continue to dance around this level or surge to higher ground.

SmartVideo Technologies Joins with Intel at CTIA to Showcase Mobile Video on Intel XScale Technology

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050310/105349_1.html
ATLANTA & SANTA CLARA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 10, 2005--Intel Corporation (Nasdaq NM: INTC - News) has chosen SmartVideo Technologies Inc. (OTCBB: SMVD - News) to be a key presenter at Intel's exhibition stand (Booth 5831) at the 2005 CTIA convention, March 14-16 in New Orleans. SmartVideo, the world leader in delivering live and on-demand television to smartphones and PDAs, will demonstrate its news, entertainment and weather programming on Linux and Microsoft Windows Mobile devices based on Intel XScale® Technology with Intel® Wireless MMX(TM) Technology.

Intel to hold off P4 CPU price cuts until August

http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20050310A1002.html
Intel has no plans to cut the prices of its 500- and 600-series Pentium 4 CPUs before the second quarter in spite of slow motherboard sales in the first quarter and the up coming traditional off-season in the April-June period, according to sources at Taiwan motherboard makers.

Paper: Taiwan police seize another 75,000 suspect AMD CPUs

http://digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20050309PR202.html
Taiwan’s law enforcement agencies seized another 75,000 suspect Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) CPUs as well as 25,000 fake ST (STMicroelectronics)-brand flash memory chips, while raiding Atop Electronics on March 8, according to police sources quoted by the Chinese-language Liberty Times.

iSuppli: Oplus buy aids Intel

http://digitimes.com/displays/a20050309PR200.html
Intel’s purchase of Israeli startup Oplus Technologies could help the chip giant to address new opportunities in the consumer-electronics market, while also enhancing its offerings in its PC core-logic business, iSuppli believes.

Oplus makes image-processing chips for Digital Televisions (DTVs). The sales price was rumored to be US$100 million.

Does anyone think this will help AMD become a Dell supplier?


IMO, Different situation. Nobody is forcing Dell to be intel only, although obviously it is "currently" financially attractive for them to do so. If the business model that Mike Dell uses, shows that it would be more advantageous to go Intel/AMD, or AMD only for that matter, I have no doubt that he would do it in a split second.

But not this time

SGI and ERUCES 64-bit Technologies Improve Cryptographic Transaction Throughput by Nearly Eight Times

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050308/sftu081_1.html
During performance testing of the ERUCES EFE V product suite running on the Altix 350 server at SGI's Global Benchmark Center in Mountain View, Calif., performance peaked at more than 6,000 cryptographic (encrypt/decrypt) transactions per second. This is an improvement of nearly eight times the performance previously achieved using the same methodology in ERUCES test labs on a 32-bit processor-based system. The Altix 350 server was configured with two Intel® Itanium® 2 1.6GHz/6MB cache processors and 2GB of RAM running a standard 64-bit Linux operating environment distribution. These results -- in particular running on a two-processor system -- are significant because it demonstrates that an enterprise implementation can be achieved in even the most demanding and extended-use cases without mission-impacting data access latencies.

Intel Statement on Japan FTC Recommendation

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050308/85366_1.html
SANTA CLARA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 8, 2005--Intel Corporation today announced that its Japanese subsidiary, Intel K.K., received a Recommendation from the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC) relating to certain business practices. Intel has approximately ten days to respond to the Recommendation. Intel continues to believe its business practices are both fair and lawful. The company is evaluating the assertions and the Recommendation before deciding next steps.