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How else would you describe it? The MMs cannot buy or sell shares. These shares are just trading amongst individuals. The float can neither increase or decrease.
Looking forward to your earnest response.
No need for credit. I'll just remain patient and hope I can double/triple my holdings as cheaply as I can.
Nope, no response.
Seems reasonable.
My buy orders are in for cheaper than this. Believe me when I say that if this stock ever hits .0001, I'm buying 100M shares.
There is no ask. The asking price is pretty much arbitrary at this point.
Again, if buyers can buy for .0009, why buy for .0015? As long as individuals are willing to sell their shares for cheaper than you are, your shares will not be sold.
Me, I've got buys in lower than this. As long as the negative sentiment continues, I should be able to easily double or even triple my holdings before end of summer.
Individuals are selling for lower and lower prices due to a perceived decrease in demand. The sentiment is negative right now. If LLEG shareholders wanted to, they could buy and sell higher. They aren't because they feel like their shares are worthless. It's all emotion.
They're not being sold because bargain hunters can pick up .001. Why buy @ .0022 when you can buy at half the price?
I don't know any of those terms. I was simply stating that if no MMs are offering to buy or sell shares, then the amount of shares in the float cannot change. The shares are simply exchanging hands for lower and lower prices due to a perceived decreasing demand.
These shares are not being bought and sold to the market, simply exchanging hands for lower and lower prices. The float is now locked because there are no MM's to sell to or buy from.
The float was already thin before the suspension. This could be easily seen by how easily LLEG was trading @ .0052
Every sell has to have a matching buy in the greys, correct? So shares are not being bought and sold to the market, rather just changing hands.
If this is true, then the float is locked until the market opens back up. We all know how thin the float was getting based on how easily LLEG was trading back when there was a market. These cheap shares could look really, really, really good with patience.
Thanks jm. The greys is certainly a different kind of animal.
Just called E*Trade, they were useless and gave me mostly wrong information. Somebody mentioned a few days ago that there are specialists that I can call to discuss L3 trading, etc. Any advice on who I should ask to speak with so I can actually get some real information?
That's a good point. Does anyone have access to this? It might give us some insight as to Mike's plan for the company just before the SEC suspension was handed down.
The analogy would hold true if you were to replace the bricks with any other item. The facts are this: Laidaw is in the renewable energy business and, before this suspension set them back, were making great progress on a number of fronts:
1) Berlin, NH 75MW power plant (Payment owed to LLEG from Cate St.)
2) New Bedford thermal power plant (Sources thermal energy to Konarka's manufacturing facility)
3) Susanville, CA (LLEG acquires 100% of the plant)
The company has been solid up until this suspension. I think its unfair to claim they have been fraudulent all this time and I think that it is best to let the investigation take place and see what comes out of it.
Here is how I see it (and please attempt to correct me if you believe that I am mistaken).:
When LLEG was trading on the pinks a little over 2 weeks ago, a market was made for the stock by the Market Makers (MMs). To put this into an easy to understand example, picture an outdoor market with vendors all selling the same item. Let's say all the vendors are selling bricks and the brick manufacturer only produced a certain number of bricks. Consumers would walk around the market from 9:30AM - 4:00PM buying and selling bricks. The price per brick depended upon the proportion of how many bricks were being sold to the vendors vs. how many bricks were purchased from the vendors. On days when consumers decided to sell bricks because they thought they could get a fair price for their bricks, they would walk up a vendor who would bid a set price for the bricks. Not all the vendors sold bricks for the same price, so naturally you would sell your bricks to the vendor who would give you the most money for your bricks. Some days, consumers would buy bricks from the vendor who would sell them bricks for the least amount of money. After consumers purchased a certain number of bricks, the vendor can decide to raise the cost of the bricks, thus also raising the price at which consumers could re-sell their bricks for.
If, on a given day, more consumers were selling bricks than buying bricks, the vendors would lower the price of the bricks so that they could buy more from the consumers for a lower cost. Sometimes, consumers would see other consumers selling their bricks, not know why, panic, and sell their bricks thinking that the cost of the bricks was going to drop substantially. Other consumers, recognizing that bricks are worth more than the vendors are selling for, would buy bricks to sell later for a higher price. A few days out of the year, consumers would buy more bricks than usual. This would cause other consumers to think that bricks are going to be very expensive soon and lead them to stock up on bricks, further increasing the price per brick.
Overall, the price per brick was affected solely by how many bricks the vendors had available to sell. If there were a lot of bricks owned by vendors, then the price per brick can be kept low since the demand is low. Conversely, if the number of bricks owned by vendors began to decrease, the price per brick would increase since the demand is greater and the supply becomes exhausted.
Some vendors chose not to buy and sell these bricks. They just laid in the sun and promised to buy bricks for very cheap and sell what little bricks they had for a lot. These vendors didn't see the brick trade to be very lucrative. However, 5 or 6 vendors saw the market for bricks and decided to adjust the prices based purely on supply and demand (and ever so often a little manipulation, to try to buy a few bricks for cheaper than the average consumer is willing to sell for).
Fast forward to now. The vendors have closed up shop and the only people left in the outdoor market are the consumers who bought bricks and are now wondering what to do with all these bricks they've purchased. Some consumers believe the market for bricks will come back and some consumers would rather sell their bricks for whatever they can get and switch to trading rocks.
Since the vendors are not buying and selling bricks, the number of bricks currently owned by the consumer collective can never change. This is because bricks simply change hands from one consumer to another. The price per brick is no longer determined by supply & demand, but by what these consumers think the price per brick should be. Some consumers are frightened because the vendors the relied on to buy their bricks when the consumer no longer wanted to own any bricks are gone.
Bricks are now selling for cheaper than they have in several years. For every consumer selling a brick, there is a consumer buying that very same brick. Some consumers are accumulating bricks. If a vendor returns to the outdoor market and begins buying and selling consumer bricks again, the price at which the consumers were bartering at is now a lot lower than the actual market price for a brick. Consumers who sold their bricks for cheaper than they were actually worth are upset because they could have gotten more for their bricks, while those who bought discounted bricks are rejoicing because the vendors are buying their bricks for much higher than the consumer paid. If vendors never return to the outdoor market, then the bricks will always be bricks and the value will always be purely speculative.
If the wind begins to blow, those bricks are going to look very appealing to consumers who never before thought of buying bricks.
Laidlaw is in the biomass industry. We all know this to be true. We also know that this industry is heavily regulated and at times, sluggish. Not the industry to be in to make a quick buck. However, the industry is great for those with a vision of the future and imagine LLEG biomass a part of it.
What are your bricks worth to you?
Matthew
Many of us are still holding "bags" which are worth 6-7x more than when we bought them.
I'll let you know when I buy them ;)
That's a great point. LLEG is now a revenue (and energy) generating company with their New Bedford Thermal plant (which helps to power the KONARKA thin film solar manufacturing facility).
Going to be a hectic couple of weeks coming up. I'm strapped in and willing to buy shares from anyone looking to get rid of them cheaply.
An open message to all LLEG investors:
On Tuesday 06/21, LLEG will most likely be trading on the Grey Market. There will be some wild swings in the PPS and it will not be nearly as steady as we have seen over the past couple of years.
That being said, never forget why you invested in LLEG in the first place. Remember the political support behind LLEG's projects. Remember the unique story that has unfolded with regards to the Berlin project.
Never forget the time, effort, and dedication that you invested researching LLEG.
Do not let others' trades dictate what you do with YOUR shares. It is very possible that the PPS could drop 80% on 5000 shares, only to come back to even on another 5000 shares.
Psyching yourself out over what others are doing is most likely going to result in you placing a trade that you will one day regret. If you don't have the stomach to endure what will most likely be a volatile trading pattern, then do what you must to restore sanity.
I believe that those with a vision, patience, and the will to strictly adhere to trading with logic will come out on top.
Then again, don't let what I say dictate what you do with your $$ either. Just make sure that whatever you do, use your brain in doing it.
Once LLEG releases a statement, everything will make sense. Wild speculation only creates doubt and LLEG is not a company that longs have doubted. Quite the opposite, and for good reason: they meet milestones.
Why would anyone be a proponent for the grey market? That sounds counter productive.
I doubt it.
I'm sure there will be plenty of buyers if individuals really want to get rid of their shares. I would buy 100M @ .0001 if we ever got that low
I have not heard anything. The last I heard was before the SEC suspension fiasco and it was that they were expecting to start construction in late July 2011.
An open message to all LLEG investors:
On Tuesday 06/21, LLEG will most likely be trading on the Grey Market. There will be some wild swings in the PPS and it will not be nearly as steady as we have seen over the past couple of years.
That being said, never forget why you invested in LLEG in the first place. Remember the political support behind LLEG's projects. Remember the unique story that has unfolded with regards to the Berlin project.
Never forget the time, effort, and dedication that you invested researching LLEG.
Do not let others' trades dictate what you do with YOUR shares. It is very possible that the PPS could drop 80% on 5000 shares, only to come back to even on another 5000 shares.
Psyching yourself out over what others are doing is most likely going to result in you placing a trade that you will one day regret. If you don't have the stomach to endure what will most likely be a volatile trading pattern, then do what you must to restore sanity.
I believe that those with a vision, patience, and the will to strictly adhere to trading with logic will come out on top.
Then again, don't let what I say dictate what you do with your $$ either. Just make sure that whatever you do, use your brain in doing it.
I'm seeing this as a golden opportunity to double my holdings by the end of the Summer.
Don't let ME down!
I think this will be the case shortly.
I would buy much, much, much more than 1 Million ;)
Great DD! A subsequent payment owed to LLEG certainly constitutes and interest!
I'll take it!
It looks like the SEC investigated stocks that were promoted by hotstocked.com
Here you can see the SEC was scoping out their promotion on CLYW:
http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-120-clyw-promo.pdf
Here you can see that hotstocked.com released a few articles on LLEG:
http://www.hotstocked.com/companies/l/laidlaw-energy-group-inc-LLEG-68143.html
I believe that, in the end, LLEG will walk out of this a better company than they went in.
Matthew
The majority of my shares are from .0003 - .0005. It will never happen, but I sure do wish I could get some more of those!
I'm hoping to double my position in LLEG by the end of the Summer.
Many of us here are in the latter category. Thanks for the post, investool
I just called E*trade (1-800-ETRADE-1) and spoke with a representative. She said that the Corporate Actions Group is currently figuring out what will happen with LLEG once trading resumes on 06/21. She said they should have more information by Wednesday.
Absolutely. Longs know MBB and LLEG. We have seen the good times and the bad and this will not stop us.
Another fact is that there is very little to hope for in as far as stock recovery is concerned here..
Besides being extremely poorly worded, this is completely false. There are no facts which support that statement. LLEG is working on multiple projects in several states and just before the SEC suspension, LLEG was in the best position that I've seen.
LLEG will rebound from this. Management is too competent and too determined to allow this to be the end of them.