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Wow. Looking at BTZO's latest 10Q, the share structure and overhang is kinda hard to believe. This Kevin Kreisler guy really beats these stocks into the ground. You would think that holders of convertibles would simply have to renegotiate the terms so that self-damaging dilution won't work against their own interests, but the reality seems to be that these stocks just languish at 0.0001 with all the issued and potentially issuable stock out there. Funny thing is, with 7.2 billion shares outstanding the company is always worth at least $720k! Honestly, finding out about BTZO makes me worry just a bit more about our dear GERS.
Just relax, don't invest money into this you can't immediately tolerate a 25% haircut on.
Yeah, painting the tape is illegal, too. It is a form of market manipulation.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/paintingthetape.asp
I think if you were a holder of thousands of shares and only bought an obviously small amount like 100 shares just to set the price where you want it then it is clearly manipulation. If you only had 100 shares to begin with and bought 100 more, then it is no different from your previous position and the case could be made that you are accumulating shares. But do this too frequently and close together in time and that could be considered manipulation, too. If you do it every day at the ask to close on a high print, that would probably also be considered manipulation.
Best to keep our noses clean and play a fair game!
Having said that, the buyer today was pretty bold to take shares at the ask with such a wide spread. I would have tried bidding between the market first to see if I could get a better price, then take the offer if nobody bites.
Did I miss something important
that is dropping the price today????
No problem. I have to say though that there are no short cuts here. I'm in both of those and although SNPS moved in my favor during the day, earnings were out this evening and it was trading down a bit. Not all of these are going to work out. Make sure you have a good risk management plan in place. Some of these things you will just breeze into and they'll work out instantly. Other trades have to be "worked" to get something out of them. By that I mean cutting losses and maybe resetting your price or buying weakness/selling strength until the real move happens, or maybe you just cut the trade and move on to a fresh idea. Again, no shortcuts. He passed them on to me and I passed them on to you. That's twice removed. It's up to you to do what you can with it. Good luck.
Well, I can agree with that.
Right, but what does that have to do with forward looking valuations? We're talking about how share increase can affect valuation, not investment style.
Are you saying companies don't have to sell shares to raise cash for operations? Keep your number at $70 and double the OS to get $35 pps. You wouldn't be satisfied with $35?
So OS is frozen at 88M now and for the foreseeable future?
If you don't extract money from the investment, then all of your money is at risk all the time. Lot's of different investment styles out there. If that's what works for you, then more power to ya.
Not if you keep a core position and trade around it. Sell some on strength and if it starts to run you still have some, if it drops you are justified in selling and can buy back again at lower prices. You do that so you can take money out of the stock. A cow is just a pet if you don't milk it.
Wow, that guy gets $5M euro a year in dividends and he's losing his homes and a yacht? Poor money management.
Yeah, as far as I can tell there is a low total outstanding. The last filing in which I was able to see a mention of share count showed 1.2 billion outstanding and through the math of the 1:100 split it became only 12 million shares. However, because fractional shares resulting from the reverse split were not being issued and were purchased by the company (I got a small cash deposit into my account for my fractional shares as a result of the split) those fractional shares were effectively cancelled. I believe there were about 2 million shares cut from the 12 million due to purchase of fractional shares. I'm not sure if that is right, but the Def 14C filing shows 2.5 billion authorized and 2.49 billion available for issuance, thus 10 million issued and outstanding. Having said that, there are lots, and I mean LOTS of convertibles still out there. That worries me a bit. If they have stopped filing with the SEC it will hide any stock issued since the last filing indicating the count. Any new filings usually show the new outstanding counts in them, right? The Def 14C I'm referring to is dated Nov 28, 2016. What is the most recent filing you found with share count? In any event, even if new shares have been issued it does not seem like they're being dumped because the price would be in the toilet given dollar volume of only $250,000 traded since the split. It seems most shareholders have just been sitting on their shares. Not sure when that will change, but I think it becomes more likely as we get to December when impatient holders will want to take a tax loss if they've got one. I had so few shares myself that I didn't even end up with shares post-reverse split. All I got was the few dollars cash. I rebought into this just above 3 cents.
EDIT: Ha, just checked my account and the math on my fractional share resulted in a payment of $0.00. It gets better. My broker charged me a $20 reorg fee when the stock did the reverse split. I paid $20 to get nothing! Probably too late to complain about it now, though.
Lets say I invested $100k in the coming two weeks, (Ha! Ha! Excuse my laughter, $100k? Me? Ha!) making multiple purchases. Then people like me watching start to think, "O boy, somebody knows something... better buy some..." and then, the price goes up.
He passed along SNPS, bullish, earnings after close today. Could be a very binary play - lose all your premium if it craps out or another double/triple/etc if the stock pops, but that's what options are for: limiting your downside risk. I'm in the 15 Sep 75 calls. If the stock does nothing the premium will deflate and you lose anyway.
He's also buying JD, I don't know what the immediate catalyst is, so it's probably a technical play - maybe off the support at 44. I'm in the 15 Sep 45 calls. Paid a bit too much this morning, thinking about picking up some 44s now, but keep a close eye on the support at 44 because it is right on the line and it either holds or it doesn't. You have to decide how much breathing room you give it.
JMO
Technical bounce + general optimism
It was a great call! He's a real good guy. I made money, but definitely sold way too early. I didn't even get half that move. But a profit, nonetheless. Doubled my money on the Sep 15 50.00 call.
Realistically, what percentage of the company will the common shareholders get out of this deal? What are some other examples?
OK, fair enough. I'll leave it at that. I looked up Maxim Group. They do indicate they deal with high net worth clients in addition to institutional and investment banking activities, though.
http://www.maximgrp.com/the-firm/corporate-facts/
But you don't explain why you can confidently reply with "not retail"
I'm just looking for explanatory answers with justification, not just two word answers.
What if the sellers were just people who think the 13G filer would be selling and wanted to bail ahead of him? In other words, spooked investors? Either way, we're all speculating.
OK, sorry it seems to be beat up on cheds night, but I have a fair question for you. Why can't it just be a large seller who was already holding shares that were purchased on the open market? Why does the appearance of a large seller have to be associated with dilutive shares?
note holders often just go around DCC and go to a company in China and go around the rules, and start converting right away.
MMs have to adhere to these rules:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/learn/regulation
In particular, see the section labeled Firm Quotes. If you think you have grounds to file a complaint about a MM's activities you should contact FINRA.
Will have to Be some Huge News and More than just the Closure
I can't believe I missed that detail. All I saw was "disallowed loss" and thought, "wash sale = bad"
I owe you much thanks for the info, sir! Gives me a lot more freedom with my trades.
No way! Thanks for the advice! This is why I'm a lowly trader and not a CPA!
That would be very good because there was a guy on here engaged in an argument with another user about the remaining convertibles and I'm not sure exactly who was right because I've been a bit lazy with reading filings and just going with technicals on this stock, but for sure there are savvy investors who know that convertibles that are not yet exercised create market overhang which can put a lid on the stock price for sure.
LOL, run-on sentence :P
On 7/27 I was bidding 11 (ha, that rhymes) and the low was 10.5, but I didn't get the fill. Oh, well.
I will buy again if the price is overwhelmingly compelling but I'm trying to hold out as long as possible to avoid a wash sale from the last time I kicked some shares out which was 7/20. I am always holding a core position so I don't miss out if it runs, but I don't prefer static positions. I see people on message boards posting things like, "why would you sell" or "don't bid, slap the ask" and stuff like that and I have to chuckle a bit. I do what I want when I want with my own money and I have myself to blame or credit for all my decisions, good or bad. No apologies for hitting bids either if I feel I need to get out of something, but most of my buys are bids and most of my sells are offers because I like to get in and out on my own terms.
I'd be a buyer near 10 as well if it ever got there. Looks like 16 is current support even though it's known that the target date for closing the merger was missed, but a market correction could also bring us down a bit. The street was a bit spooked late last week with the geopolitical situation and the sound of trumpets blaring. I've got some puts on the s&p as portfolio insurance. I hope the broad market fear blows over quickly and we're back to business as usual in a couple of days.
At this rate, you'll get in under that.
Well, it may be telling of how Parsons feels about the future of the company. He's an insider and he doesn't want to walk away. He wants to stay on board the rocket ship.
rather small amt of holdings for a group, js
Who is your group you and your three hick cousins
My group held 35k from 4.5c, but sold some at 12c and 19c. My group was offering at 25c, but cancelled the offer on optimism. My group regrets that decision! Nonetheless, my group still holds 23k and will be looking to add to the position soon
our group owns 40% now....so :)
BID this morning is 0.023
your correct no one buying this pile of dog crap.
It seems to me there is a serious loophole that needs to be closed and could be rather easy to do so. When new shares are created and they want to sell on the open market, they have to enter the electronic system. This is where the TA comes in, correct? The TA has a running total of the share count. When existing shares are bot/sld on the open market the TA already has an electronic accounting of those shareholders, correct? Well, when a sale occurs and the seller's shares are not yet in the system that is when the running total increases and that data could easily be automatically disseminated to regulators, and data outlets like otcmarkets that publish the share count for the public's benefit. In this digital world it is inconceivable why this can't be done quickly and automatically.
Lol. Go, me?! Credit to my friend for the buy rec on this one.