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Continued information on the comparative situation with TDEY
Source "Hotstocked" (from august 2015 I believe)
"Friday, they issued another press release yesterday, saying that they are going to conduct an internal investigation around the convertible debt that they found in TDEY's books when they took over. Apparently, they reckon that Mr. Vakser and the rest of the former management team weren't working in the shareholders' best interest when they were issuing the numerous toxic notes.
Thanks to the news, TDEY registered its first interesting session in a very long time. In fact, more than 1 billion shares changed hands in a matter of just six and a half hours which is an absolute record. The ticker gained 50% and it reached $0.0003 which, believe it or not, is the highest close in almost thirteen months.
Apparently, some people reckon that with Mr. Vakser out of the picture, TDEY will finally be given room to breathe. But will this really be the case?
Unfortunately, information around the company's current state of affairs is somewhat scarce. The latest financial report is so haphazardly written, that it borders on being completely useless, which is probably why, TDEY's profile is adorned with a Limited Information sign. What we can gather from the statement is that the company had absolutely no cash and no revenues at the end of Q2.
The previous reports are more detailed, but they also hoist some red flags. The Q1 statement, for example, tells us that TDEY is authorized to issue 9 billion shares of which nearly 7 billion were outstanding four and a half months ago."
Well it is extremely high risk. I will never have more than 1,000 in this stock (right now its less than that). I also mention that i think the best it can do would be to get to about a penny. This is based on all the stock currently outstanding.
If you go through my posts I state that it is a longshot , a hail mary pass but that while unlikely, it might live on.
Due your own due diligence, I post my opinions here and just like to has things out with other people (people who agree and those that do not and there are many of those here LOL).
Best wishes with your investments!
Researching these bottom dwellers has led to some interesting stuff.
TDEY hit a low of .00001 in March of 2015 now trades 40-50x higher, it hit a high point of 80x higher.
New management came in, did an investigation regarding the crazy convertible debt. They had like 7 billion shares outstanding and no sales.
They sold a employee benefits platform , paid off a million in debt, they retired and cancelled 1.8 billion shares.
The company's most recent financial statements do not even balance (and are done on quickbooks).
When the company traded off the bottom it traded a BILLION shares in a day.
Oddly, as messed up as this situation is, they wound up with a licensing fee of about a million dollars and are signing up people for a healthcare plan.
RSH can you look at this one?
Basically the information I provided in my prior post shows that even the same Seekingalpha analysis of WSTI makes the assumption that Adrian James not company management was behind the stock promotion. They owned approx 10% of the company at the time this all went down.
Yeah, James Adrian, never part of Windstream Management. But a stock promoter per the same SeekingAlpha analysis going on on these boards..
I cut part of the article below the link is here
Link to SeekingAlpha article
"Further research led us to Adrian James who appears to be a stock promoter. We noticed Adrian James's signature in the Form 3 filing:
/s/ Adrian James
03/27/2014
** Signature of Reporting Person
Date
So now, we can assume that Adrian has ties to VFT. The cover page of the Form 3 filing also included the following address:
Business Address
3736 BEE CAVES RD
SUITE 1-105
AUSTIN TX 78746
512-358-8440
This address can also be linked to Stock Professor, Inc., a promotional outfit that flooded our email inbox with at least 23 penny stock paid promotions in March and February of 2013. Fourteen now trade at sub-penny levels, while the rest trade for under $0.30.
Company pumped by Adrian, aka Stock Professor Symbol Close as of 6/30/2014
Sunrise Holdings Ltd (SUIP) 0.0450
SUSPECT DETECTION SY (OTCPK:SDSS) 0.0064
ITonis Inc. (OTCPK:ITNS) 0.0092
Vidaroo Corp. (OTCPK:VIDA) 0.0015
Latteno Food Corp. (OTCPK:LATF) 0.0043
Creative Edge Nutrition Inc. (OTCPK:FITX) 0.0537
Ranger Gold Corp. (OTCPK:RNGC) 0.0043
CYIOS Corporation, Inc. (OTCPK:CYIO) 0.0081
BUYER GROUP INTL INC. (OTCPK:BYRG) 0.0002
Enhance Skin Products Inc. (OTCPK:EHSK) 0.0150
Lescarden Inc. (OTCPK:LCAR) 0.0260
TruLan Resources Inc. (OTCPK:TRLR) 0.0013
Network CN Inc. (OTCPK:NWCN) 0.1200
Smack Sportswear (OTCQB:SMAK) 0.0300
AirTrona International Inc. (OTCPK:ARTR) (Pumped as CCRY) 0.0004
Force Minerals Corp. (OTCPK:FORC) 0.0078
PayMeOn Inc. (OTCPK:PAYM) (Pumped as MMAX) 0.3101
ALASKA PAC ENGY (OTCPK:ASKE) 0.0002
Champion Industries, Inc. (OTCQB:CHMP) 0.2900
PacWest Equities Inc. (OTC:PWEI) 0.0003
Graphite Corp. (OTCQB:GRPH) 0.0770
Primco Management Inc. (OTCPK:PMCM) 0.0022
Superdirectories Inc. (OTCPK:SDIR) 0.0018
A simple Google search led us to a July 25, 2012 article at Promotionalstocksecrets.com, which mentions Adrian James in which the author discusses the details surrounding a promotional campaign that Adrian was associated with:
"This is very significant. Adrian James Owens 4 stock promotion companies. He owns Interactive Investors, Inc, Stock Professor Inc, Chicago Financial Times, and Street Wire Research Group Inc."
"Through his stock promotion companies, Adrian James was compensated 1.5 million dollars and five hundred thousand shares to run a pump and dump on Pershing Gold Corp then known as sage brush gold back in October of 2011."
We think regulators will want to take a closer look at Adrian James and the "disappearing" 7.8 million shares related to Vanguard Financial Trust, especially given the fact that The Wall Street Revelator disclaimer included in PSR's Seeking Alpha article states that "unaffiliated shareholders" of WSTI financed the promotional campaign.
Any info on revenues?
I read the recent MDA which seems to show 10,000 tons of production in 2015. Is that happening? Are there sales from the clay products.I did read they might move a bit slower due to the recent downturn in drilling.
Given the cash position they seem to be good for about a year with the recent raise and credit line but does anyone have a timeline for revenues?
thanks!
Well all that is pretty much true yet still
1- Management did not sell 1 share that I could see
2- Management did NOT do the pump and dump
3- The company has a product
4- The company has had steadily growing sales from 2013 to the present.
5- The company has two manufacturing plants producing product that people want
6- The company has shipped to 35 different countries
7- there are verifiable installations all over including recent big projects
Now you tell me what stock selling at .0001 can say any of that.
Most low prices companies do not even have sales, and are just ideas or fake oil wells or whatever.
(all of my posts are my own personal opinion based on my own research. you should do your own, all low priced stocks have high risk)
Windstream's July 21st 2015 letter to shareholders re-iterating the 22 million dollars in JPS orders amoung other things including the 1100 finished products already done by the time of the letter in the Indian subsidiary.
Management Update July 21, 2015
I think it is appropriate to post the company rebuttal of that seekingalpha nonsense here..
Company Response to Seeking Alpha Article
Look I think we can all agree on a lot of things.
1- Windstream was pumped and dumped
2- The seeking alpha article had some truth to it.
The problem is , I see no insider sales. The guy that did the Windstream stuff has done the same thing , and the Wall Street Revelator has done the same thing to other companies.
I read ALL the seekingalpha articles, all the comments and reviewed the other Wall Street Revelator promotions.
If I recall correctly these companies had little to no assets , a big story and ZERO sales or close to it.
Windstream now has its highest sales in company history and plants in two countries cranking out the goods.
I posted the sales here by they went from 0 to 700k to 1.7 million to 2.7 million for the 9 months probably do over 4 million for the year.
It is finishing huge projects.
Yeah it has stock dilution. But all these problems were here when I found the stock. They did not just arrive. I said from the get go it is a long shot. But given the comparable stocks and how they moved off the .0001 to many multiples of it , with ZERO or no sales and hardly any assets I think this thing was over-damaged by the pump and dump and due to strong sales, the refunding of the import/export bank and the global climate pact it might have a chance of cleaning up the not so huge problem with the balance sheet.
Stock compensation is not cash. It shows up as an expense. Receiving stock does not mean it was sold. Go check. I have not found an insider sales yet! What else does this mean? This means that a big chunk of the loss on the financials was just paper money from issuing stock that had value to as compensation. Not even a cash expense but hit earnings. So the losses are really more than they would have been by millions had the stock not been issued.
RSH Found it and corrected.
In any case the point is Management did not sell a single share of this thing, had ZERO to do with the pump and dump. And not for nothing the sales went from 0 to 800k to 1.7 million to 2.7 million or so for the 9 months and will probably close the year better than 4 million.
They were slow to develop and materialize but now with the sales at their highest they have ever been the company is at a valuation of 220k not 160 million which it was when it hardly had any sales.
The matter of discussion is whether or not sales will explode and give the oppty for the company to make a comeback. It only needs about 2-3 million to fix the balance sheet. It only needs a modest tick up in price to cut down on the amount of shares issued in conversions.
As I stated. In the right situation I only see this going from .0001 to .01 given at 20-30 million dollar market value. However with a fixed balance sheet and exploding sales the valuation could be much higher.
(all points are from my own analysis and my opinion only for discussion purposes only. Do you own due diligence)
Agreed. This thing was pumped then short sold by people and if you read those seeking alpha articles they talk about it in the comments. Well now it is a new point beyond all that . Actually I think the group that did the pump and dump ruined this company not the CEO. Management never sold a share.
Good point. First best to get the house in order a bit... but good idea!
Thank you!
A few things I found out by following some of the articles. Approx 15 million of the JPS orders remain to be filled. The Mobilemill begins production 4th qtr 2015. Looking to confirm somehow.
Also I have been unable to get some feedback on existing systems installed that have been around for a few years. Looking to start that process shortly. I think the oldest one is or was at the Buffalo Bills stadium and maybe the law firm in Jamaica who has a big installation can say how theirs has worked out.
If this checking proves good, Ill probably add a bit more.
Is the 4th quarter due to be released by march 31st? or is it April 30?
A reverse split does nothing for Bates. Due to the massive dilution his shares will be very small. Usually in reverse splits management owns tons of stock and people own little pieces of stock. Now its flip sided. Also if the stock is still trading cheap like it is actively trading now, a reverse split wont do anything for the stock trading and might even hurt the trading.
It is a highly unusual situation that cannot be cast into the normal parameters. I have looked at dozens of these things and many have moved off the .0001 and none had anywhere near the potential of WSTI. And I would not have invested even high risk capital in any one of the other ones.
Bates is pretty much in the same position as other stockholders who got diluted out of value. Management is not getting any of these new shares. But it would be a smart move if they bought them for a few different reasons.
In any case the only way this pays off for them is if they turn it around.
I know where you are coming from Kezzek. But since you are pretty bright I want you to think about something. There are a few people I found including one that posts to this board that ONLY buy no bid stocks. I know that sounds absolutely crazy, but since you have some experience follow me for a second. I have done a lot of research and looked through nearly all the boards these people post on.
Here is what I came up with. Most low priced stocks just generally go down. They are higher risk and have bad situations. Other times they are pumped way up then crash (like Windstream). However no bid stocks have pretty much reached the bottom. You 1- are not buying high in a pump 2- you are not paying for a story that people believe in. That eliminates two huge reasons people lose money.
I have reviewed a real lot of these stocks. If you can analyze situations carefully and have not paid a pumped price , people are making money. Stocks are turning around many multiples of their .0001 price. 6, 15, even 27 times their .0001 price. Of all those companies MOST if not all have little to no sales at all. Some have shares double or triple what WSTI has.
Most have little to no assets.
When there are charts like WSTI's where there was dreadful downturns and huge declines in value in a short period of time usually have the best chance at a rebound off the no bid.
If this thing can get up to .0002 or .0003 bid it would also decrease the dilution in half or a third.
Well since it is year end it is a tough time because you cannot count on a financial (10Q) for 3-4 months. But if this company is to survive and i think they are trying we should hear something . The company use to generate news releases a lot more often and now it is only every few months or so. We are getting close to being due for one. If any news breaks and can even get the bid on the stock to .0002 it reduces the amount of stock issued in the conversions (cuts it in half), .0003 bid cuts it to 1/3 so even modest movement helps the chances here.
I was looking at another situation the other day where the company was buying back hundreds of millions of shares and cancelling them so there are ways out of this mess.
Agreed much better than I thought also , i had the same number in my head.
I looked at TPAC today. 3.8 billion shares. ZERO sales, a 25 bagger from its .0001 lows.
David, why are you buying so much? your thoughts?
I know we are waiting for a late 8-K on the new stock issued, I hope there is some other news soon.
A couple of people paid .001 today.
Probably a mistake on small lots of 100 shares but that is showing as the high for the day.
It was actually a small trade ,looked like a sell for less somewhere around .00075 or something too low for some quote systems to pick up. I saw it go through. The stock had a bid/ask this morning as some market makers were slow to move their .0002 asks to .0001
Did not last long. About 10 minutes.
Must have caught one of the market makers napping who forgot to change their ask to .0001. Back to .0001 with no bid now :(
As predicted went to bid .0001 ask .0002
No big deal but the stock is trading. I mentioned this should happen. It is no longer "NO BID"
Any increases from here are helpful as they will reduce the amount of toxic shares issued per dollar of debt relieved. It would have to move off the .0001 though
I am sorry you lost some money :( . If I had saw this story earlier i would be in the same boat. But I analyzed the snot out of this and for a tiny bit of money , heck you cant lose much ya know.
I wish i had the time I could fix this thing. It is not a lot of money so someone out there is probably thinking the same.
The sales growth has been great but they need to do better. Only takes a few million to fix the balance sheet and shut off the dilution from issuance of stock.
I have a weird feeling something is pending. The 8-K delay can be just because they are not doing their job but maybe something else is brewing. But I called a friend who clearly stated the move off the bid to .0002 by market makers was probably a precursor to somewhat higher trading. And today someone did buy at .0002. However in testing the ask I picked up 670k (67.00$) at .0001.
I suspect in the next few months we will know the story here. I wish you luck , I hope things do better than I expect so you can make money on your initial shares.
What did you buy at?How much are you down? You should figure out how much you could average down in case this turns. It would be a very small amount of money.
For example, if you lost 10,000 so far at higher prices it might only take $100.00 to give yourself a lottery ticket on getting it back with a move from .0001 to .01 (which is the best I think can happen). It is a total longshot, probably just add to the loss but if you bought at 30 cents, you have no shot ya know.
High volume today. I put in a small buy just to see how quick it went through so I added 670k. Ill research more late but have to run.
I wish you luck on your investment.
I had mentioned that i thought the price could start moving soon given the indications on Level 2 but we will need some good news to come. Wish I had as many as you ;) LOL
A good place to start would be to read the last 4-5 pages of posts on this board and click on the link to the 10-Q on this page (quarterly report).
This is an extremely high risk situation where most likely the company will not make it. However, I chose to take a very small position (4 million shares, 400 dollars (no commission as it was free). As if it does make it it could be good. In my mind it would only be suitable for a very small amount of money, knowing you most likely would lose it. Totally high risk.
I really think you should read everything and make your own decision. My opinion is that they are showing good sales growth and might have a chance to pull out of the mess they are in. Please know that currently if you buy there is no bid for the stock as of now meaning you might not be able to sell at any price unless something changes.
Read the board, read the 10-Q and other stuff , it would be good experience at least.
They sold a non-controllling interest (45%)
Regarding INDIA from the 10-Q
This happened in 2014
"India - Noncontrolling interest
In October 2014, the Company entered into an agreement with unrelated third parties, whereby in exchange for $2 million, these investors would receive 8,184 shares of stock in WET, or a 45% interest of WET. These are in addition to the 10,000 shares owned by the Company, and the Company retained a 55% ownership in WET, making it a majority-owned subsidiary. The Company also has three of the five board seats on the board of directors of WET.
In November and December 2014, WET leased office space, approximately 9,500 square feet, and manufacturing space, approximately 50,000 square feet, in India in connection with expanding its operations. The office space lease is a month-to-month lease with annual rent of approximately $24,000. The office space was occupied in December 2014. The manufacturing facility lease is a six-year lease with annual rent of approximately $120,000. The manufacturing space lease commenced on April 1, 2015 when WET occupied the space.
As of September 30, 2015, approximately $1,259,000 of the $2 million purchase price of the WET stock had been funded by the third party investors.
The 10Q shows they sold the stake in India for 2 million of which as of the 2015 3rd qtr report had 1.3 million paid no? That is what it say.
The thing is , when they did this deal sales were much lower and the company in desperate shape. The buyers knew this so Bates was not in a strong position.
Also most of you think all this amazing financing is out there. It is not. 15-20 years ago yeah. Since 2008 , nothing at all.
This is why companies like KABBAGE and ONDECK have been getting away with their crazy advance loans (much the same as Windstream has)
One more thing. When you look at this toxic debt you have to realize that their interest expense for the amount of debt they have is not all that much. And the cash flow implications are less than borrowing. Essentially the stockholders take it on the chin so the company has better cash flow as the conversions lower the debt but prevent the company from using cash for much debt service. This is apparent from the cash flow statement. Even with a loan at 10% there would be an interest cost of close to half what the company's cost is and the cash flow drain would not help.
This needs a two step process
1- Approx 2 million which clears out the convertible debt, and the derivative liability book goes away with that payment, that is another 900k
2- A re-do of the credit line and or equity infusion.
given the current improved conditions for these companies worldwide and the companies sales growth I think it might be doable.
I disagree somewhat.
Bates has a bad name due to the stock pump and dump. It is all over the internet even though the company and insiders had nothing to do with it.
I am a CPA, companies this size and smaller have near ZERO ability to get financing. The company's credit line is insured by the import export bank which has not been funded until a few weeks ago. With the line in limbo with little equity cash being available to companies this size, there were few options.
Even though it totally sucks, he could have easily just packed it in and closed up shop. However they move on. Whereas everyone sees him as an idiot, I see him as a survivor doing whatever it takes to keep his company afloat.
I would just like to add that one more huge positive. The budget deal which is supposed to pass next week RENEWED the credits for solar and wind in the US. Apparently a 3 year renewal at current rates with a phase down credit for 2 years. This is another huge plus.
Its like groundhog day on this board.
toxic debt is down 1 million. From 3 million to 2 million. They are not issuing more and probably cannot issue more even with a r/s
The key is can they pull something off in the next few months. I think they can.
This is such small potatoes to fix.
With capital moving into this area it gives them a better shot.
I know a company I am going to contact. They sold some solar assets and are basically a shell with 20 million in cash, a high end management team and lots of IP assets. It would be a perfect fit.
You are focusing on the wrong things.
The question is if a company has growing sales, a decent product that has been shipped to 35 countries a lot of built inventory, patents (IP) for its technology and is operating is it worth a few million dollars to someone to fix up a SMALL problem that has appeared to be big due to the lack of proper financing.
If I have this figured right about 2 million not only takes out the convertibles ending the dilution but also the derivative liabilities of approx 900k or so. So 2 million gets rid of 3 million.
We have 2 big positive and 1 big negative news wise. The negative is the ever falling Crude prices which make alternative payback periods longer.
The two positives are the global warming pact and push for renewables and the re-funding of the import/export bank which guarantees a lot of this inter-country trade by insuring credit lines (like Windstreams)
I also do not get all the negativity over Bates. Stocks go up and down all the time. This company has had steady sales growth from inception. The economy was in free fall and lending to small business all but shut off in recent years. The pump and dump happened from outsiders. No management insiders sold stock.
As an example of a workout, investors could come up with 10 million dollars and have a new debt free company with growing sales and a new bigger credit line. 10 million is chump change these days.
Read through my posts on the board.
I did not come across the stock until it was .0001. I bought a small position on the hopes of a long shot of recovery. However, even being more positive than most on the board I only initially figured the stock could go from .0001 to .01 which wont help many prior shareholders. That target price goes down as more stock was issues.
Basically the market cap of the stock now is 220k. It was once 160 million. However operationally the stock has performed on sales and should do 4-5 million in sales for the year (they did 2.7 million so far this year 9 months).
It is just they keep issuing a lot of stock to toxic debtors who have conversion rights below the market.
So it is a matter of months. My play is that there will be a modest bounce from these levels and the market cap could hit 20 million (1/8th of its prior high- the pumped high).
It is remotely possible a better workout or deal comes along but I keep things pretty much on the low side.
Very high risk situation, probably a 1 in 10 chance or less for any hope here.
I think you guys will be shocked at what happens in the next few months!
Anyone reading own any shares?
One other thing...
It is possible this stock goes up even with the toxic debt and starts trading higher. With the trailing profit percentage for the toxic holders they still make money but get less shares (so less outstanding).
I asked someone to poke into things for me and his feeling is based on the Level 2s change recently (which I mentioned before) this thing might make a very modest move and start trading soon (bid/ask .0001-.0002)
Good discussion but you miss the important stuff
First INDIA has produced product. They stated over 1,000 units, should be 2,000 by year end. One thing I do not know is the sales price of those units in the India market however.
Second, these suckers have been shipped to 35 different countries. Pallets of solarmills going to some of them. We do not know end sales.
I posted the sales progression here on the board which you all remember but they should do 4-5 million THIS YEAR . Other toxic debt situations some of which popped to 6 to even 14 times their .0001 level had no product or very little if any revenue.
Second the amount of toxic debt it not huge. It may translate huge into shares which is the problem so this is a matter of a few months to work something out before valuations get ridiculous.
IF you have noticed volume has picked up since the global warming pact passed. There is a ton of money coming at Renewables now.
It only takes a few million to end the toxic situation and about 4-5 million to put this in a situation way better than they were in before all this happened.
That massive destruction of value that happened during the pump and dump was overdone .
The company went from a market cap of 160 million when it had virtually no sales to a market cap of 220k.
A few million in restructuring and this could easily have a 20-30 million dollar market cap or more, especially if sales are exploding next year.
With my conservative calculations which is a moving target since the dilution is constant started out at a potential for .01 stock price . As more stock was issued I come up with .0070 . This number goes down every month the stock is diluted based on share count. So even under my scenario there are only about 3-4 months left.
Of course I am only assuming a 20 million market cap. Current infatuation with this sector could make that number better.
As for the posts about the 99.7% fall in the sales price, that is moot right now because I did not find the stock until it hit these levels.
Given the current more favorable outlook for renewable energy worldwide I would give the chance of a workout of some kind about 1 in 10 right now with a potential reward of 70-1 as we stand today.
I would love to see this company turn this around though. I just really like this story, the products, the potential applications etc.
I should be able to provide some more info if the company holds together as a contractor friend is going to try to be a distributor and I already have someone interested in buying some solarmills for their property along the shoreline.
What would happen to stock price if Toxic taken out?
Just looking for thoughts on what would happen under a few scenarios.
1- Investor comes in and takes out toxic debt only, lets round up to about 3 million dollars
2- Equity investor takes out all debt and has access to credit facilities
What would you see happening to the stock price?
You fail to realize that this company has assets, sales , growing sales and is in an industry which just got a huge boost from the global climate accord. Solar stocks were up huge today. I have looked at the other toxic debt stories. These things didn't even have sales and sometimes not even a product.
The amount of money we are talking about here is not even that large. A few million dollars. Its chump change.
When this company started the country was still in the midst of the deepest downturn since the recession. Small business lending is only now starting to recover. The pump and dump scam, none of which had anything to do with management also tarnished the company. The import/export bank which guaranteed the line for this company was in limbo pending the recent re-funding also
But despite all that the sales have exploded. They show a great pattern of yearly sales growth.
Billions of dollars is flowing into renewable energy, I suspect they will have one last shot at fixing this in the next few months.