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OT - Haha no worries, I learn a great deal from this board as well. Its a good board to particpate in, no bullsh*t and the people posting have something to offer. My only area of expertise is the actual trading functions. Being in the business I am sort of in tune to the general market and economic conditions and have my own opinions. But you know what they say, opinions are like....I'll stop there!
OT - Interesting stuff. I dont buy into the short raid theory but could make for interesting situation if its true. Are there any financials available? I am curious as to what type of float they have out there and the short ratio as well as any revenues. Let me know if you have anything. Thanks!
Exchanges have been moving to electronic platforms over that past decade, but the last several years have seen it drastically increased. The live open outcry exchanges still offer some advantages, I think ulitmately it will difficult to completely do away with them. I would guess that 75% of orders are now executed electronically, I would venture to say that this will go to 90% at some point. I used to work at the NYMEX (crude oil, natural gas, electricity, coffee, etc) which was almost entirley live pit trading, from what I hear over the past three years, a huge % of the orders are electronic now.
To answer your question directly, the newer electronic platforms offer quicker, fairer order exectutions. For institutional investors and traders this has both benefits and drawbacks. For retail investors, its a good thing.
OT - Bought 10k a few days ago to get my feet wet.
I have traded pennies a few times against my better judgement and faired ok, well actually not very well, but the capital loss was nice on my tax return!!!
I have done very little DD on it, except looking at where it came from. Ugly chart, did they declare chapter 11?
Looks like you started buying at the near term bottom, nice trade. Kudos to you, take some profit! Is there any real upside or will this get washed out after a couple of moves you think?
OT - WinOneGipper,
Not sure of your background or how long you have been trading but you seem to be aware of the industry...what happened to INCA, ARCA, BTRD, ISLD and the rest of the ECN's? No more SOES? I know there was a consolidation and several merged, but I dont see any individual ones at all on even the most active stocks. I am guessing that NASD is the ticker for the best bid best offer?
Yeah MWST jumped into it last week, that Specialist seems to come and go with the volume surges. Its not profitable unless there is a decent amount of volume or they wind up taking on too much risk. Remember they have to buy and sell even when no one else wants to do either. CBOE also is posting a bid/offer but at .01 by 6.0, in other words, he is not trading, I have no idea why he's even posting it.
A really rich person, ie, an institutional investor, has to go through the same processes as anyone else, with the exception that they also have a Level III available to them (not sure this applies on the AMEX) that lets them post larger orders. An instiutional investor would probably use a Specialist but they can also use a third party broker to try and get it done themselves.
Listed stocks have Specialists not Market Makers. On the AMEX there is one assigned to it. There are also other exchanges who trade the stock as well, PACX (Pacific Stock Exchange,which went electronic a few years back I think) is the other more prominent Specialist. The other participants are ECN's (NASD, NASDAQ), which represent electronic orders from both the retail and institutional side.
Sounds right on, but your understanding is more in depth than mine on the listed side. AMEX uses some kind of combo of live/electronic order execution that I have not bothered to educate myself on. I do believe we are seeing the end of the live auction, AMEX, NYSE, CBOE and NYMEX are the last of them. NYMEX resisted for a long time but my buddy trades crude oil and he has been saying recently how much of the order flow is now coming through electronically in that market as well.
When I was a trader, most of my trading was on NSDQ. Order execution has changed a great deal since my time a few years ago. MM's used to actually post there a true order, now you see them post a 100 shares and refresh for 100m.
Buyers and sellers dont have to post the entire order at once, for bigger orders most do not. In this case, a seller has a bunch stock to sell @2. He might be showing the intent to sell 2000 but he could really have 10k more 'behind it'.
This is common, it helps the buyer and seller get a better price and prevents a sudden or panic price fluctuation.
For example, if someone posted a buy order for 500k shares, the stock would jump up as traders would try and front run the order in an attempt for a quick scalp. If that same buyer posted that order a little bit at a time, they would get a much better price for their customer.
X-files is my favorite tv show.
As much as I enjoy sarcastic banter, I am going to keep it civil. Your contract law classes have served you well, you are correct, bids and offers can be pulled pre-sale.
I am surprised that in all your experience however, you have not made the connection that this message board does not actually run the company. Your concern, while merited, is thrust in the wrong area. Again, I ask, have you voiced this concern to TKO?
What you don't seem to get is that everyone here is in more or less the same position. We are all long TKO. Unless of course, someone from ThinkEquity is disgused as an I'Hub member and is trying to scare us out of our positions. I will go out on a limb and say I don't think that is the case.
The bids dont disappear, when a higher bid is entered it fronts that order and you dont see since only best bid/best offer is shown. If you have access to open book, you can actually see what the Specialist has in the his order book.
I agree that stock will only trade up on a ramp up on revenue. This is nothing new. I, personally, dont think the stock trades down from here. I think fair value has been decided by the interested parties at this point. Whether it trading $2 or $5 its basically all specualation at this point anyway. Either you believe, or you are gambling.
Has anyone read or heard about TKO being in NYC in the upcoming weeks for a conference? I thought I remember reading that somewhere.
Incidently, AMEX is on the bid at 1.98 for 100k shares. I really doubt we trade lower from here. Although I have been wrong before...
Whomever is covering the short is taking their time covering it. Panic short covering comes when something unexpected happens and the position must be closed asap. This is not the case here, so the buyer (short) is just bidding the stock. My guess is the Specialist may have a lot of stock in inventory as well, he might be selling it right now. In any case, the buyer and seller are matched up at this level, which is why the stock has not moved in 4 days.
I would think we have not heard much from GLL and Walrus because information that has been shared with them has probably been a little stale or delayed for one reason or another.
I cannot blame them one bit for not posting because the natives are getting restless around here and they are not interested in hearing the grumblings when they just passing along bits of insight. I am sure they are as frustrated as the rest of us. As a financial service professional I can atest that there are so many regulatory hurdles that are constantly being thrown at you. Releasing info to the public has its own hurdles, nevermind if multiple parties are involved.
Bottom line, my guess is more delays in whatever update was supposed to come out. The good news is that there is nothing to really indicate the stock will trade much lower. There is little interest in either direction.
The fact that short interest has decreased is a nice sign. I would be focusing on this and I can think of three reasons someone would cover their short:
1. Reasons someone chose to bet against the company are either no longer valid
2. They believe the stock is at fair value.
3. The risk/reward being short at the current level is no longer appropriate.
I dont care if the stock did not trade up, it means nothing. If it was my short position, I could easily get out of fairly large position without causing a run up. 50-100m shares a day over a week or two is not going to move the stock.
MLK have you sent any of your concerns to TKO? I too am concerned with my stake in TKO but I fail to see the raitonale for your posts. If you are concerned that TKO has no future, you have the option of selling your position. And to directly answer your question, as long as TKO is traded publicly you will always someone to sell your shares too. That is what the Specialist is there for.
Just a really really really slow trading day.
Two questions for you:
1.How many negative posts are you going to throw up today?
2. Why are you holding GLL accountable for a company she does not work for but is merely trying to give some people insight on?
We would all here like to see the stock trade up, no one here is short the stock. Negativity accomplishes nothing. You should direct this toward TKO, they are the ones who should be explaining what the is going on, not GLL or Walrus or anyone else.
OT - thanks. been trying to find some financials on them and getting nothing. have you seen any financial releases?
OT - do you have any links on info for this company, cant find anything.
Nice reply to phoenixinvestor on yahoo, well put GLL. I responded to several of his posts (abadtrader is my moniker there). He is way out of line posting that on a stock message board.
Not a stupid question at all. With most exchanges going to electronic order execution, AMEX has moved to some kind of hybrid system with both electronic and live auction. NASD and NASDAQ are both electronic orders by market participants but I am not sure if one is specific to a particular type of participant. I am guessing one is just a symbol that represents all the ECN's best bid/best offer, I think NASDAQ might be that. If you choose to route your order through a specific ECN, lets say ARCA, it might show up as NASD.
Most platforms do this automatically to get you the best fill, but with many you can choose the routing you want. If you have AMERITRADE, I know you can do this, just click on the routing drop down menu and you will see several choices.
It is pretty quiet here, don't know if you been watching the Level II but AMEX must have a pretty big order to fill. He has been walking the bid up with 10m share bids all day. Looks good today.
There are two participants that you see on a 'listed' level II, ECN's and Specialists.
Specialists are employed by member firms of the exchange. The are not paid by the companies they make a market for. In return for creating a liquid market and taking on huge amounts of risk, they are allowed special trading privaledges, such as trading ahead of order flow (information flow) and naked shorting. Most Specialists cover several stocks unless they are making a market for a very active stock like IBM etc, in which case they most likely dont have to time to do it. There are only a few open outcry exchanges left where people actually bid and offer stock in person. NYSE, AMEX I think are the only equity outcry exchanges left. PACX (pacific exchange) is electronic as is MDWS (midwest). CBOE is the Chicago Board of Options Exchange. They trade equities there as well, not sure if they have gone all electronic yet.
ECN's are represented by the NASD and NASDAQ symbols. They can represent both retail and insitutional electronic order flow.
Just an fyi as well, Market Makers are found in OTCBB and Nasdaq stocks, they are not involved in 'listed' NYSE and AMEX stocks. They work for broker/dealers and buy and sell for their own accounts as well as execute orders for customers. If and when a broker/dealer wants to make a trade they either call down to the Specialist or put the order themselves using an ECN(which are anonymos).
Sorry for being long-winded, hope that answers your question.
CBOE joined the fun about two weeks ago but has not gotten involved yet, always good to see though, the more participants the move action there is. I buckled and bought some more stock over the past three days. TKO is becoming a painful addiction.
It probably was an instituional buy/sell, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing, cuz someone had to buy it! Insitutions can trade amongst themselves at pre-negotiated prices, there is something called a Level III which is what large institutions and Market Makers can use for orders like this. I suspect that putting a large block on the bid or offer during market hours could induce panic one way or the other. This way the buyer and seller can arrive at a price and execute the order without affecting the pps during market hours.
Just speculation on my part but I think that why you see what you see.
Bingo.
I think it stands for Non-dealing desk but I am not sure. Its probably just an ECN and the print says NDD instead of the actual ECN used.
I really do hope so.
NASDAQ and AMEX and PACX are on the bid at 2.15. AMEX is on the offer.
GLL I understand where your perception is coming from because of what seems to be transpiring here. And in this case, I think I might agree with you.
But I do want to clarify a misconception I think you may have within the US capital markets. Every major financial instutition has multiple lines of business, including wealth management, instutional services, research, etc. The research end of it is supposed to be transparent, firms must disclose if they have a position in a equity they are covering. That firm must also have structures in place that prevent front running of inside information leaking from their research to their own proprietary trading groups. It is illegal for an analsyt to publicly say one thing and privately say something else.
Obviously no system is perfect, but transgessions happen everywhere, more so in smaller markets where not as many people are looking.
Although I think ThinkEquity stands to profit from a decline in TKO's value (Although I really have no idea), TKO has TKO to blame only in my opinion.
Some follow through right now from TKO will go along way to "correcting" the situation.
Sirius that is not necessarily a good indication of where the stock will open. The Specialist(s) cannot post a bid or offer until 9:30 and have to pull it down at 4:00. AMEX, PACX are the two most active specialist and execute the most volume, you cant really get a good indication until market open.
NASD and NASDAQ are ecn's used by anyone pre and after market. In thinly traded stocks like this, with very view participants, you typically see a wide spread when the market is closed.
So far they look like idiots. May 8th they issue a Sell rating with a .50 price target, stock closes the day down .05 at 2.26.
Three trading days later TKO issues a PR citing substantial increases in revenue and by all accounts several more coming more this week, and stock is trading up from the day they issued the sell on heavy volume.
Nice job on the research ThinkEquity.
These guys are full of shit and could not be more transparent in my opinion.
Remind me never to let them manage my money.
You dont want buyers to come in and gap the stock up significantly, when they are done buying the stock will trend back down because the demand drifts off.
What you do want to see is buying pressure upwards on a consistent daily basis, that will let you know that there is multiple buyers interested in accumulating stock.
Focus on the next several days price action, if you see heavier than normal volume and postive % gains, you know this news is attracting multiple buyers.
This stock really never ceases to amaze me. Crappy 10Q, no news, no reach out from the company, and the stock trades up 10% on heavy volume. Somewhere, someone decided this is a bottom I guess. For anyone that bought down around the 2 area, kudos to you. I really did not see this interest coming today.
OT - my two cents on DNDN: charting and technicals have nothing to do with what happened to DNDN today. The FDA needs DNDN to come back with more info than what was provided, from what I understand this could take months if not a year or two. There are more elements to it than that but that is the major part of it.
TA can work because of the herd mentalilty that is inherent in the stock market. In stocks that are news driven, like biotech and other speculative stocks (like TKO) TA means nothing. These stocks go up and down because of buy and sell orders that come from institutions looking to create, add, or sell a position.
I am not a great chart reader but it can definately be a great tool if you know how to use it and use it conjuction with fundamental research.
DNDN fooled a lot of people, but if you look at the short ratio, which was at 41%, didnt exactly fool all of them. Something was not right with it, very rarely does the market get it wrong.
OT - From what I read the management had a very small window of when they could sell shares and this was one of thier first opportunities. when most of executive pay is tied to options, it makes sense to sell a little bit when they can. Executive pay is being so scrutinized right now, but that is a good thing for the most part.
There is a actually a new regulation that I am seeing more and more executives take part in which they have a pre-arranged stock sale so there is no question if they are trading on inside knowledge. They can set it up so every quarter they will sell X amount of shares at the market. Makes a lot of sense, most people aren't aware that this goes on and people get crazy when they see insider sales but they dont realize that many of these sales have been pre-arranged.
Just a tid-bit I thought was interesting.
OT - More like complete meltdown. I had bought May 15.00 puts for 1.80 when it was trading 25. Sold them for around 3.00 when it pulled back the first time to 19, I took profit a little too soon. Too bad I didnt hold on, they are trading for 7.50 now.
Walrus, Anton Wahlam is the managing director of communications research at ThinkEquity. He is not the specialist.
No Sirius I am not saying that. I have no idea who the analyst even is. Please dont imply that I am saying anything like that, thats not fair, I would never make an accusation on a message board like that.